Israel airstrikes in Syria (confirmed)

[DarkHunter]

I have nothing against Iran having nuclear power, I am not against anyone having nuclear power. I personally think that nuclear power would be a great intermediate step to wean the world off of oil and other fossil fuels till a better, cleaner source of energy can be found.

But where I do have a problem is with the type of reactor Iran is using, there is simply no reason to produce the type of reactor they have unless you are planning of making nuclear weapons at some point. If Iran truly had peaceful intentions then why didn't they produce a Thorium-based nuclear reactor. It is safer and cleaner then Uranium-based reactors, and produces less nuclear waste then other reactor types. The only problem is that it is near if not impossible to make a weapon out of a Thorium-based reactor, unlike the type of reactor Iran has.

Honestly why would Iran choose its current type of nuclear reactor that really has no advantages over a Thorium-based reactor and has crippling sanctions involved with it, unless it is to produce a nuclear weapon which a Thorium-reactor simply can't do.

Because I have noticed this being brought up recently that Iran hasn't declared war on anybody for over 200 years is a bit misleading. While Iran may have not declared war officially on anyone for over 200 years they are far fro peaceful, most of that 200 year period of peace has been marked with a civil war every 20 or 30 years it seems from a quick look at Iranian history with its only periods of prolonged peace being when it was under foreign occupation and with recent history Iran has been funding/supporting multiple terrorist organizations in multiple middle eastern countries.

I know this quote is form Stalin but it seems to fit rather well regarding Iran, "If any foreign minister begins to defend to the death a 'peace conference,' you can be sure his government has already placed its order for new battleships and airplanes."

[Coffey]

Yet every other nation who makes a statement is branded as western propaganda and lies.

Obviously in the west we read it as 'Israel needs to be wiped off the map 'when what he really meant was 'Israeli's should all come and live in Iran'

Like the Stealth fighter. Western propaganda read it as 'we have a fighter who can evade radar and strike before you know we are here'. Yet what they meant was ' our fly boys really liked the look of the F22 so we built one to keep them happy'

They reported their new stealthy anti ship subs. Blimey propaganda led us to believe 'It is a stealth sub that cannot been seen so can attack carriers and destroyers in the area with anti ship missiles' What they really wanted to say was 'We had a load of turquoise paint and thought they would look nice painted in them.

Same as the new monkey space program. A huge amount of Iranians live in poverty, with lack of basic facilities so obviously the most sensible for a Government is to start spending billions on a space program.

Lets look at the stealth fighter shall we... Firstly it's a fighter not a bomber. Which means it's main role is for air support, this can be defensive. yes it evades radar, radar is used not just as a defense, it's an offensive weapon for attacking enemy airspace as well. They are unveiling this stuff as a deterrent. Not a threat. That is pretty obvious when using common sense.

Same with a stealth sub, it sits and waits to be attacked, like a trap door spider. Why can't you see that? It's a very common strategy, been used for thousands of years, they have mostly done it with tanks and anti tank guns in ww2. It's common sense, whats the point of having a non stealth sub just sitting there waiting for ti to be taken out.

Just because we use all our stealth capabilities to evade other countries and blow all their citizens away, doesn't mean other countries want to. We're allowed nukes though... LMFAO

I have nothing against Iran having nuclear power, I am not against anyone having nuclear power. I personally think that nuclear power would be a great intermediate step to wean the world off of oil and other fossil fuels till a better, cleaner source of energy can be found.

But where I do have a problem is with the type of reactor Iran is using, there is simply no reason to produce the type of reactor they have unless you are planning of making nuclear weapons at some point. If Iran truly had peaceful intentions then why didn't they produce a Thorium-based nuclear reactor. It is safer and cleaner then Uranium-based reactors, and produces less nuclear waste then other reactor types. The only problem is that it is near if not impossible to make a weapon out of a Thorium-based reactor, unlike the type of reactor Iran has.

Honestly why would Iran choose its current type of nuclear reactor that really has no advantages over a Thorium-based reactor and has crippling sanctions involved with it, unless it is to produce a nuclear weapon which a Thorium-reactor simply can't do.

Because I have noticed this being brought up recently that Iran hasn't declared war on anybody for over 200 years is a bit misleading. While Iran may have not declared war officially on anyone for over 200 years they are far fro peaceful, most of that 200 year period of peace has been marked with a civil war every 20 or 30 years it seems from a quick look at Iranian history with its only periods of prolonged peace being when it was under foreign occupation and with recent history Iran has been funding/supporting multiple terrorist organizations in multiple middle eastern countries.

I know this quote is form Stalin but it seems to fit rather well regarding Iran, "If any foreign minister begins to defend to the death a 'peace conference,' you can be sure his government has already placed its order for new battleships and airplanes."

I don't know enough about Nuclear power to comment on that, I do know it is Russia helping/advising them with it. Is it plausible that the technology is not as easy to build or is the cost very high?

As for civil wars, that is different if the country is having disputes with itself, Israel is having a civil war AND attacking others... (even though Israel doesn't call it a civil war and denies it's a civil war... )

The US funds terrorist organizations as well. lol

The US funded Iraq to attack Iran... then we had to fight the exact army the US armed in Iraq.

The US funded, trained and made Al Qaeda.... Then again we had to fight them.

The US funded Al Qaeda/rebels in Libya.

The US is supposed to be funding Al Qaeda/Rebels in Syria.

How is that not aiding terrorists?! lol

Edited February 6, 2013 by Coffey

[acidhead]

I have nothing against Iran having nuclear power, I am not against anyone having nuclear power. I personally think that nuclear power would be a great intermediate step to wean the world off of oil and other fossil fuels till a better, cleaner source of energy can be found.

But where I do have a problem is with the type of reactor Iran is using, there is simply no reason to produce the type of reactor they have unless you are planning of making nuclear weapons at some point. If Iran truly had peaceful intentions then why didn't they produce a Thorium-based nuclear reactor. It is safer and cleaner then Uranium-based reactors, and produces less nuclear waste then other reactor types. The only problem is that it is near if not impossible to make a weapon out of a Thorium-based reactor, unlike the type of reactor Iran has.

Honestly why would Iran choose its current type of nuclear reactor that really has no advantages over a Thorium-based reactor and has crippling sanctions involved with it, unless it is to produce a nuclear weapon which a Thorium-reactor simply can't do.

Because I have noticed this being brought up recently that Iran hasn't declared war on anybody for over 200 years is a bit misleading. While Iran may have not declared war officially on anyone for over 200 years they are far fro peaceful, most of that 200 year period of peace has been marked with a civil war every 20 or 30 years it seems from a quick look at Iranian history with its only periods of prolonged peace being when it was under foreign occupation and with recent history Iran has been funding/supporting multiple terrorist organizations in multiple middle eastern countries.

I know this quote is form Stalin but it seems to fit rather well regarding Iran, "If any foreign minister begins to defend to the death a 'peace conference,' you can be sure his government has already placed its order for new battleships and airplanes."

Regardless, Iran is still no threat to the West. They are an isolated Nation. Sure they have economic relations with Russia but what does that prove? Russia is an Allie with the West. China is in a no-win situation as well. Their economy relies heavily on the economy of the USA and the EU.

Patriotism or Nationalism is the highest form of Collectivism.

I look at the Iranian GOV as more of a player in this global game of corporate dominance over personal liberty than I do them the enemy.

We've been lied to too much.

[Frank Merton]

What should somebody else in the world "allow" your country with your government? Sovereignty is a wonderful thing, when you're taking your own for granted and defiling someone else's.

Sovereignty is what the Chinese talk about when they march into Tibet -- Tibet is "part of China" so others should not complain when China exercises sovereignty. They make the same claim about Mongolia, large chunks of India, and a whole bunch of islands all over the place.

Then there is internal sovereignty. We have to recognize this nineteenth century Metternich political invention as taking priority over basic human compassion?

[Yamato]

Sovereignty is what the Chinese talk about when they march into Tibet -- Tibet is "part of China" so others should not complain when China exercises sovereignty. They make the same claim about Mongolia, large chunks of India, and a whole bunch of islands all over the place.

Then there is internal sovereignty. We have to recognize this nineteenth century Metternich political invention as taking priority over basic human compassion?

I find the best standards regardless of what China or any other government says, and I wouldn't take any foreigner seriously who came and talked to me about "allowing" me to do something.

[Zaphod222]

I look at the Iranian GOV as more of a player in this global game of corporate dominance over personal liberty than I do them the enemy.

We've been lied to too much.

Wrong paradigm. The Iranian mullah government is first and foremost guided by radical islamic doctrine, and by the Shiite "12er" teaching in particular. That is the foundation for their jihad against Israel, against the "Great Satan" USA, and for their Middle Eastern policy of dominating the Sunni countries in the region.

If you are unaware of that, you have not done your homework.

Start by reading history, of the region, and that of Khomeinis revolution in particular.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Frank Merton]

I find the best standards regardless of what China or any other government says, and I wouldn't take any foreigner seriously who came and talked to me about "allowing" me to do something.

It's a tough call; I find the wide-open gun regime in the US (and the ensuing excess deaths) and the execution rates in states like Texas to be violations of human rights. Americans find the imprisonment of native tribes people who want to stand in the way of Vietnam's exercise of eminent domain in order to preserve their culture to be a violation of human rights. Sometimes the regimes are so outrageous that the whole world takes notice, such as the execution of young boys suspected of being homosexuals in Iran and the routine executions of women accused of being witches in much of Africa and the systematic denial of women's rights in the Middle East.

[Stellar]

Regardless, Iran is still no threat to the West. They are an isolated Nation.

You realise Canada kicked out Iranian diplomats a few months back because they were using the embassy to smuggle in potential saboteurs to the country?

[Yamato]

It's a tough call; I find the wide-open gun regime in the US (and the ensuing excess deaths) and the execution rates in states like Texas to be violations of human rights. Americans find the imprisonment of native tribes people who want to stand in the way of Vietnam's exercise of eminent domain in order to preserve their culture to be a violation of human rights. Sometimes the regimes are so outrageous that the whole world takes notice, such as the execution of young boys suspected of being homosexuals in Iran and the routine executions of women accused of being witches in much of Africa and the systematic denial of women's rights in the Middle East.

So then don't look to regimes. Look to groups of free individuals. Regimes want power; corporations want profit. It's not surprising we get the best results from the passionate individuals from civil society volunteering for a cause greater than themselves.

The individual is sovereign. Independence, not centralization. If we listen to what governments say to find out what we really think, we'll never get it right.

[skookum]

Well look at it this way. Both Japan and Russia have suffered reactor meltdowns despite having over 50 years experience with nuclear power. They both managed to contaminate large areas despite their efforts and experience trying to stop this.

Here comes Iran, a new kid on the block with a nuclear toy 50 years behind the rest of the world. Can you imagine what will happen if this goes wrong?

Given the state of the country and the poverty I imagine their safety precautions and quality will be top notch

Not quoting but back to the Stealth fighter being used as a defensive weapon. It has been used in combat for 30 years. Can someone enlighten me to its defensive role? I believe it has only been used in an offensive role in the former Yugoslavia and Iraq. I take it Iran have found a new use of stealth and think it is best suited as an interceptor. As for weapons storage a modern bomb can easily fit on a fighter and take up no more room than a few air to air missles. Hence why air forces around the world have been decommissioning their heavy bombers.

Britain used Tornado Bombers quite effectively over Libya and they flew from the UK, so I see no logic in the size of an aircraft an payload. I know Iran is quite behind but I doubt their first nuke will be the size of the Hiroshima bomb.

Stealth doesn't mean you are totally invisible to radar always. It means under certain conditions you give out a very low radar signature. Start thrashing engines and using after burners it gives up your game. Interceptor or defensive aircraft need to be fast to catch up to target. Stealth is currently not at state it will work in an interceptor role.

The US Navy have long been known to avoid stealth as a necessity as their most important role is an air supremacy role and interception.

Maybe Iran should concentrate on it's UFO' s for the defensive role.

Edited February 8, 2013 by skookum

[ExpandMyMind]

Ex, how long are you going to take such an embarrassing uber legalistic view of this situation? So unless courtroom quality proof can be offered for Iran working on components - including the most important one, fuel, - then you cannot even imagine that they might be trying to position themselves for a bomb? Do you require such a standard for ANYTHING else you discuss? Frankly, people will stop taking what you say seriously if you keep up such an illogical pattern of absolute denial. NO ONE in the world community any longer doubts Iran's intentions in this NOR do they think it is a beneficial course for the world. You know, it is possible to acknowledge their attempt for nukes yet not approve of specific actions being considered against them - you just have to be honest about where you stand.

edit to clarify that when I say NO ONE I mean world governments that aren't doing billions in business with Iran.

And Then, your own government states openly that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program! They are the most knowledgable intelligence gathering agency in the World. How long are you going to keep portraying my view as unreasonable? It is not just that there is no proof of an actual program, it is the fact that the combined intelligence community of the West is unanimous in agreement that there is no program!

!!

....

!!!

[skookum]

Don't want to harp on about the Stealth Fighter and size ( I think it might be R/C).

A modern MIRV is small. In fact I could fit about 3-4 in a Ford Mondeo. Even the smallest fighter could carry that amount. Given the Russian and american power estimate of about 5 times Hiroshima per MIRV, even an 20% MIRV dropped from a fighter is very worrying.

But would a middle east nation drop a bomb on Israel unless attacked? Well Iraq launched a good few Scuds on Israel in the 90's unprovoked by them. Many British SAS men lost their lives taking out Scud threats too stop a Jihad starting.

Not that they or their families will get sympathy for stopping an all out blood bath. It will be buried as propaganda.

[+and-then]

And Then, your own government states openly that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program! They are the most knowledgable intelligence gathering agency in the World. How long are you going to keep portraying my view as unreasonable? It is not just that there is no proof of an actual program, it is the fact that the combined intelligence community of the West is unanimous in agreement that there is no program!

!!

....

!!!

They and you and all others making such statements are playing word games IMO. Their "program" would not exactly be something done in plain view, now would it? The only evidence that is actually available is the refinement processes and even some of those might be hidden - remember what a surprise Fordow was? By far the most difficult part of any bomb making venture is this refinement process. Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing. I have no doubt that Iran is not on the verge of assembling a weapon today. But they are amassing the fuel to do so when they judge the time to be right. Assembly is the easiest part of the job and can be done secretly. You simply seem to be unconcerned with whether they have the bomb or not and that's your prerogative - but it truly baffles me that an educated and socially aware individual could see no jeopardy here. Truth is nothing except an all out declaration of war to destroy all their infrastructure and a big part of their military capacity (missiles) could stop them from having the bomb when they want to build it now so it has become a moot point. Ship has sailed on that possibility. And not just for Iran I think, but for any other tinpot nation with the money to buy from the DPRK or Iran in the future. This must be what it was like for thinking people in the '30s - they had to see it coming - nothing to be done except starting a pre-emptive war and that was and is just unacceptable. So we will deal with the war once THEY decide when and where they want to push it to the limit.

[acidhead]

You realise Canada kicked out Iranian diplomats a few months back because they were using the embassy to smuggle in potential saboteurs to the country?

Don't accept everything you hear from this Conservative GOV in Canada as the voice of the majority.

Edited February 9, 2013 by acidhead

[acidhead]

Wrong paradigm. The Iranian mullah government is first and foremost guided by radical islamic doctrine, and by the Shiite "12er" teaching in particular. That is the foundation for their jihad against Israel, against the "Great Satan" USA, and for their Middle Eastern policy of dominating the Sunni countries in the region.

If you are unaware of that, you have not done your homework.

Start by reading history, of the region, and that of Khomeinis revolution in particular.

History.

Historically Iran has always been a major player in the region. Nothing will change this fact.

They are a player in this global corporate GOV game.

[acidhead]

History.

Historically Iran has always been a major player in the region. Nothing will change this fact.

They are a player in this global corporate GOV game.

Same with Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and of course Palestine...

[ExpandMyMind]

They and you and all others making such statements are playing word games IMO. Their "program" would not exactly be something done in plain view, now would it? The only evidence that is actually available is the refinement processes and even some of those might be hidden - remember what a surprise Fordow was? By far the most difficult part of any bomb making venture is this refinement process. Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing. I have no doubt that Iran is not on the verge of assembling a weapon today. But they are amassing the fuel to do so when they judge the time to be right. Assembly is the easiest part of the job and can be done secretly. You simply seem to be unconcerned with whether they have the bomb or not and that's your prerogative - but it truly baffles me that an educated and socially aware individual could see no jeopardy here. Truth is nothing except an all out declaration of war to destroy all their infrastructure and a big part of their military capacity (missiles) could stop them from having the bomb when they want to build it now so it has become a moot point. Ship has sailed on that possibility. And not just for Iran I think, but for any other tinpot nation with the money to buy from the DPRK or Iran in the future. This must be what it was like for thinking people in the '30s - they had to see it coming - nothing to be done except starting a pre-emptive war and that was and is just unacceptable. So we will deal with the war once THEY decide when and where they want to push it to the limit.

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.

[+and-then]

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.

And you can keep displaying your naivete but be sure there are many who know it for what it is.

How two students built an A-bomb

It's one of the burning questions of the moment: how easy would it be for a country with no nuclear expertise to build an A-bomb? Forty years ago in a top-secret project, the US military set about finding out. Oliver Burkeman talks to the men who solved the nuclear puzzle in just 30 months

http://www.guardian..../24/usa.science

Edited February 9, 2013 by and then

[Frank Merton]

One of these days I would say there is a high possibility that a city somewhere will be destroyed by a nuclear explosion.

I suspect that will change the world. If you think the powers are against nuclear proliferation now, guess what will happen then? And guess what will happen to the powers of agencies like Homeland Security?

[+and-then]

Oh aye, word games. The biggest threat to U.S./British hegemony in the region and they're keeping it under wraps for what purpose? They have shown that they are willing to go to war for far lesser supposed causes, so why on earth would they lie about something that goes directly against their own foreign policy objectives? Your theory makes no sense.

Fordow wasn't a surprise. Iran announced its existence more than 6 months before it went active. Under the IAEA regulations they only have to do so 6 months in advance. And you can bet that U.S. drones and spy planes were already long aware of the construction.

"Assembling a gun type (Hiroshima) weapon can be done by a physics grad student and it doesn't even need testing."

Would you care to show proof of this?

You have no doubt they are assembling one? This is no more than rumour and hear-say. It is gossip and warmongering and your hopes of end-day prophesy coming to a head all rolled into one. All evidence and all intelligence regarding this matter disagrees with your view. They don't even have a weapons program.

You can keep peddling this nonsense, along with any other ill informed people, but just remember that there are plenty of people in the World who know that what you preach is bulls***.

As to the rest of your diatribe - you might try actually READING what I said - you have an assumption of me based on your own bias and you read that right into something you thought I would say when I actually said EXACTLY the opposite. I said I "have no doubt they are NOT assembling a bomb". If you, in your pitiable arrogance want to continue in willful ignorance of the state of the world today and what the threats are because you'd rather point out all the faults of your own and other western style governments then rock on, man. No doubt when the reality of it comes crashing in on you you'll be able to justify your position - only problem is there won't be ANYONE listening to the bull**** anymore.

[Hyades]

I don't know if this was published here, I did a search, nothing came out, so here it is!

The author Ken O'Keefe on Israel Grand Project, interesting!

[+and-then]

I don't know if this was published here, I did a search, nothing came out, so here it is!

The author Ken O'Keefe on Israel Grand Project, interesting!

In a certain anti semitic sort of way, yes, I'd agree People never tire of new variations on the old theme of - JEWS TAKE OVER THE WORLD... kind of pathetic to still be seeing it in the 21st century but hey, we gotta have SOMEONE to blame, huh? The problems certainly couldn't be US, now could they?

[Hyades]

In a certain anti semitic sort of way, yes, I'd agree People never tire of new variations on the old theme of - JEWS TAKE OVER THE WORLD... kind of pathetic to still be seeing it in the 21st century but hey, we gotta have SOMEONE to blame, huh? The problems certainly couldn't be US, now could they?

When a Nation does things that is against the Geneva Convention, the Fundamental Principles of life by the International Communities, then, it should be ''anti-....'' classification.

Well, the Web has many Sites indicating that the Jews Leadership has a Master Plan. And when one look at what is going on in Middle East, it really look like this, who was behind the US intervention in Iraq? And what came out of the US intervention in Iraq? Actually, this Nation is somewhat dismembered, Turkey, US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, want a part of it. And a similar situation is underway in Syria, it might be difficult there with Russia intervention.

I don't think that we need to be in the ''blaming'' thing, when a Nation kill, maim, people and kids, where's the logic? But, with the help, protection, warring if necessary, of the most powerful Nation on Earth, everything is possible!

If there is a culprit to be find, IMHO, it would be with the Financial System, they need to activate the economy such that money circulates, otherwise, the riche don't get what they expect. We have example from the I, II WW, Vietman, other wars.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Hyades

[+and-then]

When a Nation does things that is against the Geneva Convention, the Fundamental Principles of life by the International Communities, then, it should be ''anti-....'' classification.

Well, the Web has many Sites indicating that the Jews Leadership has a Master Plan. And when one look at what is going on in Middle East, it really look like this, who was behind the US intervention in Iraq? And what came out of the US intervention in Iraq? Actually, this Nation is somewhat dismembered, Turkey, US, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Israel, want a part of it. And a similar situation is underway in Syria, it might be difficult there with Russia intervention.

I don't think that we need to be in the ''blaming'' thing, when a Nation kill, maim, people and kids, where's the logic? But, with the help, protection, warring if necessary, of the most powerful Nation on Earth, everything is possible!

If there is a culprit to be find, IMHO, it would be with the Financial System, they need to activate the economy such that money circulates, otherwise, the riche don't get what they expect. We have example from the I, II WW, Vietman, other wars.

I think there is much truth in what you say but when you post such things about Israel it immediately tarnishes your credibility. The facts about Israel are pretty clear to anyone who doesn't begin the game with a hatred of them.

They and the Palestinians (who were primarily squatters) were offered land and a state in Palestine by the WORLD community. They accepted it. The Palestinians could not due to the injunctions of their religion and historical traditions.

The surrounding Arab/Muslim armies attacked Israel as soon as it announced Statehood.

The Arabs LOST.

The Arabs continued to fight small actions against the Jews for years until they thought (1967) they had the strength to finally win.

Again, they lost.

6 years later Egypt and Syria tried AGAIN. The whole darned world came close to the brink when Nixon moved US forces to DefCon 3.

In '82 Arafat and his merry band were run out of Israel into south Lebanon and began singing the Katushya symphony. Ariel Sharon took the IDF north and kicked out of THERE also. And yes, I am aware of Sabra and Shatilla. It was a war crime and Sharon should have paid for that lack of control but even THEN it was not an Israeli crime against the enemy.

Finally, with much pressure from the US and EU Israel decided to try again. They pulled all troops from Gaza and all troops from southern Lebanon. There would be peace if they did that. Iran created, funded and armed Hizballah in southern Lebanon and Hamas took over in Gaza. Those areas were militarized against Israel.

There is much more but the pattern is clear. Israel has at least TRIED to find a peaceful solution. There are elements within the country and government that firmly believe (as do I) that the God of the Bible promised them that land from the Nile to the Euphrates and those people -a clear minority - want to settle and possess that land NOW. The promise was unending and it WILL happen but God never said they could have it all while in disobedience to him.

The majority of Israeli Jews are secular, many of those, atheist. They are weary of war and would give even part of Jerusalem to make the wars and bloodshed stop. They have tried, over and over and always it is the Palestinian leaders who walk away. Always.

During Obama's terms, Abbas stopped even trying to seem reasonable. He set preconditions that nearly all his demands be met PRIOR to even discussing peace.

So there will be no peace yet. But mind you, it WILL come. A treaty of 7 years will be confirmed between Israel and the "many". Those 7 years begin the day that instrument is signed. They will be the worst period of time this earth has ever or WILL ever know.

[Hyades]

I think there is much truth in what you say but when you post such things about Israel it immediately tarnishes your credibility. The facts about Israel are pretty clear to anyone who doesn't begin the game with a hatred of them.

They and the Palestinians (who were primarily squatters) were offered land and a state in Palestine by the WORLD community. They accepted it. The Palestinians could not due to the injunctions of their religion and historical traditions.

The surrounding Arab/Muslim armies attacked Israel as soon as it announced Statehood.

The Arabs LOST.

The Arabs continued to fight small actions against the Jews for years until they thought (1967) they had the strength to finally win.

Again, they lost.

6 years later Egypt and Syria tried AGAIN. The whole darned world came close to the brink when Nixon moved US forces to DefCon 3.

In '82 Arafat and his merry band were run out of Israel into south Lebanon and began singing the Katushya symphony. Ariel Sharon took the IDF north and kicked out of THERE also. And yes, I am aware of Sabra and Shatilla. It was a war crime and Sharon should have paid for that lack of control but even THEN it was not an Israeli crime against the enemy.

Finally, with much pressure from the US and EU Israel decided to try again. They pulled all troops from Gaza and all troops from southern Lebanon. There would be peace if they did that. Iran created, funded and armed Hizballah in southern Lebanon and Hamas took over in Gaza. Those areas were militarized against Israel.

There is much more but the pattern is clear. Israel has at least TRIED to find a peaceful solution. There are elements within the country and government that firmly believe (as do I) that the God of the Bible promised them that land from the Nile to the Euphrates and those people -a clear minority - want to settle and possess that land NOW. The promise was unending and it WILL happen but God never said they could have it all while in disobedience to him.

The majority of Israeli Jews are secular, many of those, atheist. They are weary of war and would give even part of Jerusalem to make the wars and bloodshed stop. They have tried, over and over and always it is the Palestinian leaders who walk away. Always.

During Obama's terms, Abbas stopped even trying to seem reasonable. He set preconditions that nearly all his demands be met PRIOR to even discussing peace.

So there will be no peace yet. But mind you, it WILL come. A treaty of 7 years will be confirmed between Israel and the "many". Those 7 years begin the day that instrument is signed. They will be the worst period of time this earth has ever or WILL ever know.

Thanks for the first comment, and then you add, ''tarnishes my credibility'', I present facts, not unbiased comments, and I'm not in the hatred game. I congratulate you on fighting hard to defend the Jews, not their leaders, and it's great of you! But you see, you defending a Nation that goes toward his own perdition. I invite you to read the following link that will have you ponder of the future destination of this Nation. The author is elaborating different theories that are really interesting, and I know that it will touch you somehow.

http://www.globalres...ensible/5494974

Arabs lost - you sure have pondered on why they lost, first the Arabs were not supported financially and logistically by the most powerful military of the World. The Arabs were not important to the US. Any Nation with this kind of support can't loose a war!

Palestinians, Israelis Leadership don't want a peace process, it make their day, their leaders travel all around the World, attend big dinner, beautiful hotel, they don't want any peace, they want the statu-quo. That's how I feel about this very controversial situation, unfortunately, it's the people who paid the price of being stab, being maim, etc.