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# Obamacare average \$20K per family!

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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/01/surprise-irs-calculates-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-average-20000-per-family/

SURPRISE! IRS CALCULATES CHEAPEST ‘OBAMACARE’ PLAN WILL AVERAGE \$20,000 PER FAMILY

When the Obama White House and Congress passed The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (i.e. “Obamacare”), we clearly recall being told that the bill would save Americans money.

Yet, as CNSNews.com reports, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in a regulation issued Wednesday “assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost \$20,000 for the year.”

Wait, what?

Yes, while explaining the penalty for not purchasing government insurance, the IRS calculates that the average annual cost for a family will be at about \$20,000.

“The IRS’s assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost \$20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan,” CNSNews.com reports.

“The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of \$20,000 per year for a bronze plan,” the report adds.

Wait a minute. What is the exact language of the IRS regulation?

“The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is \$20,000,” the regulation states.

Oh.

“Bronze will be the lowest tier health-insurance plan available under Obamacare — after Silver, Gold, and Platinum,” CNS explains. “Under the law, the penalty for not buying health insurance is supposed to be capped at either the annual average Bronze premium, 2.5 percent of taxable income, or \$2,085.00 per family in 2016.”

In the new rules published Wednesday, the IRS also made law the regulations regarding the fines and penalties incurred if someone chooses not to buy the insurance. And in an attempt to explain these laws, the agency draws up a few examples.

“[T]he IRS assumes that families of five who are uninsured would need to pay an average of \$20,000 per year to purchase a Bronze plan in 2016,” CNS notes.

“Using the conditions laid out in the regulations, the IRS calculates that a family earning \$120,000 per year that did not buy insurance would need to pay a ‘penalty’ (a word the IRS still uses despite the Supreme Court ruling that it is in fact a ‘tax’) of \$2,400 in 2016,” the report adds.

And just in case you were wondering how convoluted and contrived these new regulations look like, here’s the exact language from the IRS:

Example 3. Family without minimum essential coverage.

“(i) In 2016, Taxpayers H and J are married and file a joint return. H and J have three children: K, age 21, L, age 15, and M, age 10. No member of the family has minimum essential coverage for any month in 2016. H and J’s household income is \$120,000. H and J’s applicable filing threshold is \$24,000. The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is \$20,000.

“(ii) For each month in 2016, under paragraphs ((2)(ii) and ((2)(iii) of this section, the applicable dollar amount is \$2,780 ((\$695 x 3 adults) + ((\$695/2) x 2 children)). Under paragraph ((2)(i) of this section, the flat dollar amount is \$2,085 (the lesser of \$2,780 and \$2,085 (\$695 x 3)). Under paragraph ((3) of this section, the excess income amount is \$2,400 ((\$120,000 – \$24,000) x 0.025). Therefore, under paragraph ((1) of this section, the monthly penalty amount is \$200 (the greater of \$173.75 (\$2,085/12) or \$200 (\$2,400/12)).

“(iii) The sum of the monthly penalty amounts is \$2,400 (\$200 x 12). The sum of the monthly national average bronze plan premiums is \$20,000 (\$20,000/12 x 12). Therefore, under paragraph (a) of this section, the shared responsibility payment imposed on H and J for 2016 is \$2,400 (the lesser of \$2,400 or \$20,000)

A nice sized family with a decent income. \$120k gross minus taxes puts them around \$85-\$90k take home pay minus \$20k to Obamas dream leaves them at \$65-\$70k left. Wow, talk about inhibiting success. An automatic \$50k goes right to the government not to mention sales taxes, gas taxes, all the taxes associated with monthly bills. You're crazy to think this is what the people wanted. Screw this socialist nightmare. This is beyond shared responsibility and certainly isn't affordable. It's a train wreck and after the insurance companies are sunk there'll be one place left to go.

At best your out an automatic \$2000-\$2400 just for a fine. Everyone is going to take the penalty. I say we don't take it at all. What are they going to do if we all give them a big middle finger. When the tax refunds so many are used to turn into unexpected tax payments I guarantee the fingers will be flying even amongst the most staunch Obama supporters. What a fiasco. Thanks a lot.

Edit: lol, all those smileys at the end must be the text symbol used for them. The IRS language used a lot of 'B's' in parentheses. Check the original source if it confuses you. It means paragraph B. I ain't gonna edit.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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Geez. Was just thinking that \$20,000 is the minimum cost for a plan no matter what your income. What are people supposed to do? Oh yea, get government assistance.

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Sounds like a cue for population control. Who's gonna want to have kids at a cost like this?

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Because there counting on employer based insurance which will come directly out of your paycheck. You will then get reimbursed at tax time for any subsidies. Thats how I see them getting away with it. Employers are mandated to provide insurance thus passing the cost directly onto the worker.

If you want to work youll be paying the health insurance tax.

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But...we're from the government, and we're just here to help!

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Because there counting on employer based insurance which will come directly out of your paycheck. You will then get reimbursed at tax time for any subsidies. Thats how I see them getting away with it. Employers are mandated to provide insurance thus passing the cost directly onto the worker.

If you want to work youll be paying the health insurance tax.

Not necessarily. The mandate for employer coverage is 50+ employees. Employers with less need only offer coverage as a perk. The fine for those with more than 50 is like \$3k per uncovered employee I think. Far cheaper than providing coverage. I only have 5 employees. I can't offer coverage, yet if ever. So many employers will be dropping coverage, firing people and downsizing to be below 50 and the others simply won't have to offer. Seems to me like a lot of honest hardworking citizens are going to be SOL with only the government to turn to.

Either way, you're right about the last sentence though.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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Not necessarily. The mandate for employer coverage is 50+ employees. Employers with less need only offer coverage as a perk. The fine for those with more than 50 is like \$3k per uncovered employee I think. Far cheaper than providing coverage. I only have 5 employees. I can't offer coverage, yet if ever. So many employers will be dropping coverage, firing people and downsizing to be below 50 and the others simply won't have to offer. Seems to me like a lot of honest hardworking citizens are going to be SOL with only the government to turn to.

Thank you for finishing my thought for me. Thats exactly how it goes.

For me in my 40's Healthcare costs at the most 1k a year without insurance. Im not getting onboard this trainwreck you can bet on that.

Edited by AsteroidX
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Well I `m old school people helping people, all the government going to do is put people in more debt for the Obama health care that most are not going be able to afford and more are going to be losing their jobs.Just turning this country into bigger welfare state.

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Now we can impeach him,because it becomes more and more clear that its just a money making scheme .

Natural news went off on this last night . The info here is theirs I believe.

The also note that doctor and drug mistakes,kill 2000% more people yearly,than guns.

*chuckles.*

La~

http://www.naturalnews.com/038905_Obamacare_health_insurance_mandate.html

Edited by Simbi Laveau
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This is tyrant actions here, forcing the will on the people instead of giving them a choice. Obama has crossed the line.

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If I read the article correctly, it said that the IRS is figuring that a family of 5 will cost \$20,000 in health insurance in 2016 and they are using that number to determine the fine. Unless I am mistaken, Obamacare doesn't actually sell insurance to people and that price is what it is figuring insurance companies are going to charge. And considering I pay 10k a year now for my family plan and 4k 10 years ago, I can see that 20k number being true in 2016 with or without Obamacare. Remember that the whole cause of Obamacare was skyrocketing health care costs.

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If I read the article correctly, it said that the IRS is figuring that a family of 5 will cost \$20,000 in health insurance in 2016 and they are using that number to determine the fine. Unless I am mistaken, Obamacare doesn't actually sell insurance to people and that price is what it is figuring insurance companies are going to charge. And considering I pay 10k a year now for my family plan and 4k 10 years ago, I can see that 20k number being true in 2016 with or without Obamacare. Remember that the whole cause of Obamacare was skyrocketing health care costs.

That is just all bad news IMO. Wages are not competitive with those cost increases. Has health care improved that much it deserves a raise in cost ?

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Remember that the whole cause of Obamacare was skyrocketing health care costs.

Fair enough but remember this is really called the Affordable Care Act and was sold as such. It's a big damn lie. Not that I fell for it.

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No surprise here. Dennis Kucinich and Wendell Potter both predicted this as the outcome--huge increase in business for the insurance industry.

At that demonstrates clearly that Obama is no socialist, he's fascist, bringing out change that fattens the bottom line for a variety of industries.

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This is tyrant actions here, forcing the will on the people instead of giving them a choice. Obama has crossed the line.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard this.

Do something about it then (and no, I'm not talking about taking a gun and shooting up the government).

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If I had a dollar for every time I heard this.

Do something about it then (and no, I'm not talking about taking a gun and shooting up the government).

Like what? Vote for the guy who promised hope, change, transparency and affordable healthcare? Hope is subjective. Change in itself is vague. Transparency certainly never happened especially concerning a bill that's going to crush the middle class yet was sold as the complete opposite. The people who voted for this were duped. People like me on the other hand did try to do something about it. We didn't vote for it.

So what else can we do? Complain? You don't like that apparently. Vote? We tried that. I don't think there's much we can do except get the entire country on board with telling him and the IRS to shove it up their ass and we aren't paying. Other than that, what's your suggestion?

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Damnstraight I'm not paying. It came down to who wanted ObamaCare and who didn't. Those that did, outvoted those who didn't. Those that did need to realize they were duped into voting for the creation of a new money racket for the health insurance industry. Emperor Obama claimed it would bring the cost of health insurance down. This will not be the case. Doctors will quit the practice, you wait and see. This is something I do not want, do not need nor voted for.

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A nice sized family with a decent income. \$120k gross minus taxes puts them around \$85-\$90k take home pay minus \$20k to Obamas dream leaves them at \$65-\$70k left. Wow, talk about inhibiting success. An automatic \$50k goes right to the government not to mention sales taxes, gas taxes, all the taxes associated with monthly bills.

It sounded too crazy, which is why I went directly to the Obamacare facts website http://obamacarefact...f-obamacare.php

They have their Obamacare calculator, you can see that as you scroll down to - Obamacare cost calculator

I put in \$120,000 as an income for a family of 4..and it gave me - http://healthreform....lculator.aspx Anyone can use that and enter their own income per year and see what it tells you

I know not every working American family will be earning \$120,000 per year, but I entered that due to the fact you mentioned it as an example.. I saw a completely different cost.. BUT if they are changing it in a few years, to a much higher cost, I would like to see facts on that.. Something official from the government itself..I am not arguing you are wrong, I just feel it sounds too crazy to be true...I am hooping it is wrong, because I would think doing that is absolutely disgusting...I have seen people in the UK and Ireland crack up and go nuts at their government if anything like this ever came out.... So I would think that CNN and other news stations would be reporting something about it soon or already have?

A lot of families barely earn \$20K a year...Something about this story doesn't add up... If I am wrong ( and that could be the case ) I would rather see something from the government to show me facts ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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At an income level of 20k using the same calculator in a household of 1 I came up with 25% of income number or 5400\$. With tax time deductions (mind you obamacare will be a monthly expense with a yearly tax deduction). My yearly deduction will be 4,381. My understanding is my monthly income will drop 25% per month in these plan.

Now normally a person making 20k a year pays no taxes and if they file correctly the govnmnt will reimburse part of the tax has been removed from there paycheck. Basically making it a sum 0 gum for the ultra poor.

Now is what comes to question is the deductible a reimbursable tax. As in will the government give me back that 4381 dollars at the end of the year ? Or will it be a tax deduction meaning my taxable income is reduced by that much. Its tax law and Im not gonna drive myself figuring out which way they set it up but unless Im getting that check at the end of the year Ive been paying anywhere from 5% of my income to over 50% of my income depending on my tax burden.

I would certainly claim 12 the entire year if I was not getting reimbursement for the deduction.

This does not take into certain extra fees associated with the premiums such as do you smoke, are ypou obese etc that will again increase that base number.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Running it through at the 120,000 number (an income level that is not absurd in big cities like LA or NY and would be a cost of living for those cities and not excessive)

I get the same 5400 yearly premium with no opportunity for a tax deduction as my income level has exceeded the tax deduction threshold. So a person making 120,000 a year already pays 40% on there income if single. So thats reduced to 80k off the bat initially. Then another 6k for the healthcare plan (if the dont smoke are not obese) and your down to 64k a year. Nearly 50% of the income in a large city where the average rent can be 2400-3600 a month.

That was by putting the same numbers in Becky Ill have to look at the calculator a bit more closely because it pumped out the same Healthcare tax burder for 2 different incomes. Besically that would be a flat tax which we know its not.

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There is also different kind of plans bronze,silver,gold, and platinum. The one I used (default) was silver. One other little known is there is a 3 to 1 limit meaning in family plans it is capped at 3 children per adult so a single mother of 4 would have to buy an additional policy for the 4th child.

Moreso then the actual outrageous pricetag of the original insurance is the other fees that are appearing up that will impact so many Americans. Thus driving these numbers up higher in an individual case by case situation. It is harder to be heard when your gripe about the cost is unique to you and doesnt include every bloody American.

It has sham written all over it. Take money out of my check monthly. (which btw the government is infamous for dipping into for other expenditures) and hope Ill get a return on my investment at the end of the year.

'For me being 40 years old my total health care costs run me about 1k a year. op Im certainly not falling for this fuzzy math.

Edited by AsteroidX

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Yes those are initial numbers for early participation

by 2017, individual premiums in Ohio will increase by as much as 85 percent

funny because it wasnt suppose toi be a tax

4. IRS penalties and interest on unpaid mandate taxes. Because the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate penalty is a tax, the IRS will be able to assess interest and non-criminal penalties on those families who will not or cannot pay the tax. The IRS will issue regular, periodic correspondence audits to these families to help them comply with their filing responsibilities.

There really is no government page to determine the actual cost yet as since it wont hit till 2014 tax season we dont even have basic numbers just glimses at the actual cost. I looked to and could only find a propaganda Obama page.

http://obamacarefacts.com/costof-obamacare.php

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I meant to end my last post with "at the people's expense", but forgot.

The insurance companies increase their profits, and the people end up paying for it.

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An article from Factcheck regarding the penalty for not paying for health care coverage. It also states the cost of buying insurance is still unknown but gives a range from 4500-9000\$ per year. The penalty maxes at 2500\$ in 2016. They will use the IRS to collect this tax penalty. I feel sorry for tax payers.

http://www.factcheck...-obamacare-tax/

Edited by AsteroidX

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I suspect Mickey Mousing of figures to IRS by corporations for health care costs where did it really go?

Example one pays for their health insurance pre tax it shows about \$2000 for a year. Employer shows they paid -0- toward health premiums and benefits on your benefits statements, HR says they don't pay insurance but company provides you with lower costs by being group insurance and those costs depend on your usage.

Later you get W-2 required by health care reform that shows corporation paid \$10,500 including your contribution pre tax. You ask HR what \$8,500 did company pay. That's part of drug costs and your usage. You say, I stopped going to doctors and did not claim any drugs last year, how do you explain that? Put on hold to superviser....That's for our wellness program you could use it you want. You say, oh that 800 number you can call if you need employee counseling? Yes.

An 800# for a link to non profit and government sponsored programs that dollar figure sure doesn't ring true especially if you don't use it! HR ..The cost is equally divided between all employees don't worry about it since it's not taxable as income to you. You ask why they didn't disclose that to you for prior years when you did have claims and the same plan in place. HR says this is the first year transparency is required by the new health care reform.

It's going to take a while before everyone can see what the fortune 500 companies are really doing with benefits and retirement plans!

Edited by White Unicorn
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Already there are many employers that are cutting hours to ensure that workers don't go over 32 hours per week and mandate health coverage by the employer. There are other employers that are incorporating each of their franchise locations so they won't fall under the "50 employee" rule. Sure, the COMPANY has 5000 locations - but each LOCATION only has 40 employees...

This is nearly unenforceable.

Wal*Mart knew this - and that's why they stumped so hard to get it passed. They've already slashed hours and hired a bunch of new folks to cover the "lost" hours. They can afford to do this.

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