Frank Merton Posted April 17, 2013 #351 Share Posted April 17, 2013 What's prideful about sharing an experience? There's no guile if they share their encounters in factual ways, not intentionally embellishing facts pertinent to the case. Well of course it is prideful to think we have special experiences that others don't, and I hate to have to tell you this but a very large portion of such stories are either invented or at least embellished out of a desire to get attention. This does not have to be deliberate dishonesty -- as the person tells the story they convince themselves of it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 17, 2013 #352 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thanks for the reminder of Percival Lowell, one of the most arrogant astronomers of history. His name would be forgotten except he had the money to invest in telescopes, which, however, he kept for his personal use. He saw all sorts of things on Mars that no one else saw, that he attributed to his better observing techniques, and the press largely reported what he said he saw as fact, even though other astronomers were doubtful. Of course it was all in his head. I remember in college (at the time I was an astronomy major although I later switched to data processing) being so disappointed when the first radar images from Venus reported the truth of the situation there, and not the steamy Silurian jungle we all expected. I held my breath on the subject until the Russian lander made the truth impossible to deny. I remember thinking it was kinda like the Odyssey. The Greeks populated unknown places with all sorts of beings. Nowadays we seem to have a tendency to do the same thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperS_ParadoX Posted April 17, 2013 #353 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thanks for that info psyche much appreciated, Iv learned a lot from your posts. Frank that sounds very reasonable and I agree with you there is nothing you can do with that but leave it alone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 19, 2013 Author #354 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Well of course it is prideful to think we have special experiences that others don't, and I hate to have to tell you this but a very large portion of such stories are either invented or at least embellished out of a desire to get attention. This does not have to be deliberate dishonesty -- as the person tells the story they convince themselves of it too. It's just as wrong to be dismissive of all experiences. Frankly, I don't trust many so-called "skeptics" to approach the paranormal in an honest manner. Some of their attempted debunking is as lame and ludicrous as the most outrageous claims of true believers. The "swamp gas" strategy just won't cut it these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted April 19, 2013 #355 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Nobody really knows that there are not Alien Demons ! Sleep on that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 19, 2013 Author #356 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Well of course it is prideful to think we have special experiences that others don't, and I hate to have to tell you this but a very large portion of such stories are either invented or at least embellished out of a desire to get attention. This does not have to be deliberate dishonesty -- as the person tells the story they convince themselves of it too. That attitude is the height of arrogance and ignorance. Some people indeed experience unique events that the rest of us don't. Who are we to say that *all* of them were just mistaken in their interpretations of their personal experiences? Now *that's* true hubris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 19, 2013 #357 Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) That attitude is the height of arrogance and ignorance. Some people indeed experience unique events that the rest of us don't. Who are we to say that *all* of them were just mistaken in their interpretations of their personal experiences? Now *that's* true hubris. By the same token, who is qualified to verify the supernatural? One thing we do have here is a common denominator, human error. One cannot base conclusions totally on a visual aspect, nor a belief. Edited April 19, 2013 by psyche101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperS_ParadoX Posted April 19, 2013 #358 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Welll I would think the supernatural would exibit the same kind of things in a lot of peoples minds, if suddenly my comforter started floating in the air would you call that supernatural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted April 20, 2013 #359 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Welll I would think the supernatural would exibit the same kind of things in a lot of peoples minds, if suddenly my comforter started floating in the air would you call that supernatural? Unless you live in Texas then it could be a twister,or Explosion next door ! Just saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 20, 2013 Author #360 Share Posted April 20, 2013 By the same token, who is qualified to verify the supernatural? One thing we do have here is a common denominator, human error. One cannot base conclusions totally on a visual aspect, nor a belief. Some claims are valid. Some claims are invalid. It's not accurate or fair to say that all witnesses are dishonest or mistaken when you have no evidence to do so. Take each case on its own particular merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperS_ParadoX Posted April 20, 2013 #361 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Unless you live in Texas then it could be a twister,or Explosion next door ! Just saying? Do you live in Texas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBunker Posted April 20, 2013 #362 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Some claims are valid. Some claims are invalid. It's not accurate or fair to say that all witnesses are dishonest or mistaken when you have no evidence to do so. Take each case on its own particular merits. Most people do. But we all know that eyewitnesses are notorious for getting things wrong. And we also know that the internet is smack full of hoaxes and liers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 20, 2013 Author #363 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Most people do. But we all know that eyewitnesses are notorious for getting things wrong. And we also know that the internet is smack full of hoaxes and liers. That's true. It's not fair to reflexively put all claimants in the same category, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted April 20, 2013 #364 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Do you live in Texas ? Ya cuddnt tell Man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperS_ParadoX Posted April 20, 2013 #365 Share Posted April 20, 2013 Ya cuddnt tell Man? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 22, 2013 #366 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Some claims are valid. Some claims are invalid. It's not accurate or fair to say that all witnesses are dishonest or mistaken when you have no evidence to do so. Take each case on its own particular merits. Don't physics count? It's even less accurate to accept an outcome as accurate when based upon a statistic too. Has any supernatural example ever managed to leave the realm of the supernatural and make it's way into the real world? As such, how is it valid to state that some claims are indeed valid, when not one has ever come close to being proven as factual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrom901 Posted April 22, 2013 #367 Share Posted April 22, 2013 they seem to be more frightened than us.... link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 22, 2013 #368 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Some claims are valid. Some claims are invalid. It's not accurate or fair to say that all witnesses are dishonest or mistaken when you have no evidence to do so. Take each case on its own particular merits. You make an absurdity sound so sensible. When people are claiming lala, the presumption that they are dishonest or mistaken is valid all the time. Absence of evidence to do so is not needed; evidence not to do so is essential. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 22, 2013 #369 Share Posted April 22, 2013 That's true. It's not fair to reflexively put all claimants in the same category, though. It's perfectly fair to put all claimants of the same thing in the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 22, 2013 #370 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Welll I would think the supernatural would exibit the same kind of things in a lot of peoples minds, if suddenly my comforter started floating in the air would you call that supernatural? Not at all, not without a thorough investigation. Some people might think something like this is supernatural. But it's not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBwiSWkjHlA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted April 22, 2013 #371 Share Posted April 22, 2013 they seem to be more frightened than us.... link So that is where they found him huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaperS_ParadoX Posted April 22, 2013 #372 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Not at all, not without a thorough investigation. Some people might think something like this is supernatural. But it's not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBwiSWkjHlA So basically if I get the gist of what your saying, is that if it can't be measured scientifically it doesn't exist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 23, 2013 Author #373 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Don't physics count? It's even less accurate to accept an outcome as accurate when based upon a statistic too. Has any supernatural example ever managed to leave the realm of the supernatural and make it's way into the real world? As such, how is it valid to state that some claims are indeed valid, when not one has ever come close to being proven as factual? Christianity comes to mind. Of course, you can't prove it with some experiment in a laboratory. As far as all paranormal claims, you and I will never agree on whether or not some of them are valid because we will never agree on acceptable criteria. That's why this exchange is turning into the thread version of a hamster wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 23, 2013 Author #374 Share Posted April 23, 2013 they seem to be more frightened than us.... link Maybe they should be. *We* might seem demonic to *them*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Censorship Posted April 23, 2013 Author #375 Share Posted April 23, 2013 You make an absurdity sound so sensible. When people are claiming lala, the presumption that they are dishonest or mistaken is valid all the time. Absence of evidence to do so is not needed; evidence not to do so is essential. No, it's simply unfair to reflexively put all claims in the same category. It's as wrongheaded as automatically believing all fantastic claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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