danielost Posted February 20, 2013 Author #26 Share Posted February 20, 2013 It is alleged he made man. It is alleged he made man. True, but he made man perfect. Man messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted February 20, 2013 #27 Share Posted February 20, 2013 True, but he made man perfect. Man messed up. haha, if man is capable of messing up, then this alleged god did NOT make him perfect! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaentum Posted February 20, 2013 #28 Share Posted February 20, 2013 There is one thing god cannot do. That is do evil. Depends on what your definition of evil is. Personally I think wiping all life from the Earth would be considered evil. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasina Posted February 20, 2013 #29 Share Posted February 20, 2013 There is one thing god cannot do. That is do evil. Well he created Satan who, with the gifts that God gave him, went on to commit all evil in the world (allegedly). So he did 'create' evil. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted February 20, 2013 #30 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well he created Satan who, with the gifts that God gave him, went on to commit all evil in the world (allegedly). So he did 'create' evil. allegedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasina Posted February 20, 2013 #31 Share Posted February 20, 2013 allegedly. Well, when it comes to questions like these I do like to answer then even though I'm pretty agnostic in my views. So, to answer them, I usually base my post around the view point of trying to answer the question in a logical manner without just going 'well, I dunno if he's real or not'. That 'allegedly' let's me keep the topic going while still holding up a flag saying 'though in my views I don't really know'. Sorry to seem like I'm explaining it to you Free, I'm more explaining for myself and others who may see my post as support for the belief of a God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted February 20, 2013 #32 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well, when it comes to questions like these I do like to answer then even though I'm pretty agnostic in my views. So, to answer them, I usually base my post around the view point of trying to answer the question in a logical manner without just going 'well, I dunno if he's real or not'. That 'allegedly' let's me keep the topic going while still holding up a flag saying 'though in my views I don't really know'. Sorry to seem like I'm explaining it to you Free, I'm more explaining for myself and others who may see my post as support for the belief of a God. Fully understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted February 20, 2013 #33 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Well, yes, but then he's not omnipotent since he can lift his rock -- he wasn't able to build it. I have been trying to explain his encounters with mara for a long time. Everyone wants to think they were real demons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 20, 2013 #34 Share Posted February 20, 2013 "Ominipotent" is often misconstrued as an inherent contradiction, yet it is not. This often missed element is that "Omnipotence is combinded with Omniscience", which, essentially, say's that there is Wisdom before the expression of Power. As such, God creating a rock He can not lift is void by virtue of Wisdom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted February 20, 2013 #35 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Your gun can kill another. That's POWER. However, you must decide whether or not to pull the trigger. That's Wisdom, or not(being human) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazahel Posted February 21, 2013 #36 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I remember this question. This is how I think of it. I guess it depends on what you think is God. I tend to think of God as inside everybody and we are inside His body(almost like dreams of His). So the little h, as in he, means little god(to me)which is inside everyone. Big H/He means Him(the main dreamer/creator). So He can create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it. So if you basically think of God as being you(he)and also the creator(He)..(so linked together), then He can experience the impossible through you just as you experience the possible through Him. So He can create a stone so heavy he cannot lift it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flbrnt Posted February 21, 2013 #37 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The quote about the lever is from Archimedes. not Socrates or Plato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckskin scout Posted February 21, 2013 #38 Share Posted February 21, 2013 God is a spirit and also he created and formed the earth. There is one helluva big rock there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean93 Posted February 21, 2013 #39 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) There is one thing god cannot do. That is do evil. God might not be able to do evil but he willingly let it happen when he set us loose on Earth. Shooting yourself in the foot willingly and then crying about the pain is stupid. Edited February 21, 2013 by Sean93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idano Posted February 21, 2013 #40 Share Posted February 21, 2013 There is one thing god cannot do. That is do evil. Read the story of Job...conspiring with the devil to destroy a man...sounds evil to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idano Posted February 21, 2013 #41 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Your gun can kill another. That's POWER. However, you must decide whether or not to pull the trigger. That's Wisdom, or not(being human) Thanks for putting that in...uhmmm...laywoman terms, I couldn't wrap my head around the other explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 21, 2013 #42 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Do you not understand the problem or are you just stubborn? I'm attempting a paradox that'll consume this thread in the fires of reuncreation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 21, 2013 #43 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Read the story of Job...conspiring with the devil to destroy a man...sounds evil to me. Not the Devil. An Angel whose job it was/is to be "devil's advocate" to say rhings inentionally defiant to ghe thoughts/will of the person they're talking to in order to ensure justice is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted February 21, 2013 Author #44 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Read the story of Job...conspiring with the devil to destroy a man...sounds evil to me. Except, he knew it wouldn't destroy Job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Right Wing Posted February 21, 2013 #45 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) The simple answer is no. Socraties or Plato(I get them mixed up) said,"give me a big enough lever and I can move he earth." Thus not only can't god make a rock he can't move, he can't make one I can't move What is a rock? If you chip a bit off it is it still a rock? At what point does it cease to be a rock if you keep chipping? If a rock was a real thing you'd be able to define the point at which it ceases to be a rock. As you cant it shows a rock is just an idea in your head and thus your statement is logically flawed. To produce a logically correct statement you'd first need to show something objectively exists. Good luck with that lol. Edited February 21, 2013 by Mr Right Wing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted February 21, 2013 #46 Share Posted February 21, 2013 There is a good discussion of this question and possible answers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted February 21, 2013 #47 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Do you not understand the problem or are you just stubborn? LOL he was joking, the question in reality makes no sense. A rock is part of creation, God is both a part and 'outside' of creation. Creation is contingent, God is not, creation is not necessary, God is. It is like who created God? All things that had a beginning has a cause, true, but God had no beginning. These kinds of questions are good for those freshmen who are starting philosphy, but for it to be brought up over and over again, well, is funny and at times frustrating ;-), though it will be posted here again soon, along with the deep question, "who created God", then back to eternal regress. Can God create a hambruger he can't eat, can he make an ocean he can drown in, it is all nonsense (non-sense). We get caught up in logical loops, can't be helped, we are limited finite beings, with limite intelligence, though profound at times. Peace mark Edited February 21, 2013 by markdohle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdohle Posted February 21, 2013 #48 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm attempting a paradox that'll consume this thread in the fires of reuncreation. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted February 21, 2013 #49 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The Big Rock is used because for reasons lost in history this has always been the traditional way the problem is expressed. When you premise the existence of an omnipotent being, you say this being can do "anything." So the obvious question becomes, can he do something impossible. Now lots of things are impossible for us to do but not impossible for, say, Superman. But Superman is not God -- just someone who can do lots of things we can't. Where the trouble arises is in things called "self-referential" problems -- problems that refer back to themselves. Can this omnipotent being who can do anything do something that he cannot then undo. If he can't, he's not omnipotent; if he can, he's not omnipotent. The simple fact is that this consists of a logical proof that an omnipotent being cannot exist. It has all the logical power of any logical proof. I think the only thing that, with this sort of logic lurking in the world, that continues to make theism possible is sheer stubbornness -- the psychological desire that the beliefs one was brought up with or somehow otherwise indoctrinated with be sustained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Of Shadows Posted February 21, 2013 #50 Share Posted February 21, 2013 think of god as endless stream or river .. then comes a person and say can god build a dam at the end of that stream ? then there is no answer for such question beause the point that being discussed " the end of the stream " does not exist now let's take take the rock question . god is with unlimited power and the rock is something that need to excced that unlimited power in order to be done so how do you want a creation to excced the infinity ? that rock need to be over god's power to be too heavy to llift and the power of god is unlimited botton line .. that's a flawed question .. or a trick question my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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