DHS Supplier Provides Shooting Targets of

[Stellar]

So if they can prepare for us I guess it's fair that we also prepare for them.

Ehh, this is where I dont like the "us" term. They're not necessarily preparing for "us" as in all of us. They're preparing to do their jobs, and if they encounter someone who threatens them, they're preparing for *that* person.

My talk of "preparing for civil unrest" was separate from the talk about these targets. I did not mean to imply that these targets are *for* preparing for civil unrest. The targets are targets designed to prepare people to respond properly to shooting any legitimate target they are presented with. And these pictures are all legitimate targets, since they're all holding up weapons pointed at the DHS/LEO agent.

On a separate note, I also believe the DHS has plans for civil unrest because thats their job--- to be prepared for such eventualities.... and considering how much talk of civil unrest there is, and how many people on these very forums alone have talked about revolution, it'd be foolish for them *not* to prepare for it. And if there is civil unrest and people start going after LEO/DHS agents trying to lawfully do their jobs, these people should be prepared aswell.

[+OverSword]

Ehh, this is where I dont like the "us" term. They're not necessarily preparing for "us" as in all of us. They're preparing to do their jobs, and if they encounter someone who threatens them, they're preparing for *that* person.

My talk of "preparing for civil unrest" was separate from the talk about these targets. I did not mean to imply that these targets are *for* preparing for civil unrest. The targets are targets designed to prepare people to respond properly to shooting any legitimate target they are presented with. And these pictures are all legitimate targets, since they're all holding up weapons pointed at the DHS/LEO agent.

On a separate note, I also believe the DHS has plans for civil unrest because thats their job--- to be prepared for such eventualities.... and considering how much talk of civil unrest there is, and how many people on these very forums alone have talked about revolution, it'd be foolish for them *not* to prepare for it. And if there is civil unrest and people start going after LEO/DHS agents trying to lawfully do their jobs, these people should be prepared aswell.

I understand your POV. I just don't agree with preparing to shoot little children is all. I can understand the thought behind doing it but were I the captain of a police dept. we would not be purchasing these targets.

If by 'lawfully do thier jobs' you are reffering to taking away legaly purchased fire arms, they should not obey those orders and switch sides.

Edited February 21, 2013 by OverSword

[Michelle]

Guys, the NHS also prepares for a UFO/alien invasion, Canada attacking the US, doomsday and I think even a zombie apocalypse. Preparing for a revolution wouldn't be so farfetched even if this is what they are doing.

[Corp]

Alex Jones is a bit of an eccentric character, but at least he cares about American principles enough to not care about acting crazy.

His news is pretty biased, I'll admit that much. He and a lot of other folks have been predicting the implementation of drone technology into our society, hypothesizing just how it was going to pan out at first, and for the most part they have been correct in their assumptions that some local governments and state agencies have been adopting drone technology to some extent. He cares about the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and the Declaration of Independence - core documents that many of our current government agencies and police forces sort of tip-toe around through bureaucratic justification.

He also thinks gay people are an evil government plot. The guy just wants to ensure that his viewers are scared 24/7 and think that only he will tell them the "truth". He makes some good points but they get lost in his non-stop screaming and crazy theories. But then that's how he makes his money. Who cares that he makes people terrified of the government and on the verge of violence as long as he gets a pay cheque.

[Stellar]

I understand your POV. I just don't agree with preparing to shoot little children is all. I can understand the thought behind doing it but were I the captain of a police dept. we would not be purchasing these targets.

If by 'lawfully do thier jobs' you are reffering to taking away legaly purchased fire arms, they should not obey those orders and switch sides.

I was nto refering to taking away firearms, I was refering to lawfully doing their jobs in general.

[Yamato]

and no it's not alarming that they're using these targets because DHS operates IN the US, meaning the targets they may face in a shooting situation could very possibly be americans.

Then the DHS should be abolished immediately because the fed's goons have a bad habit of shooting first and asking questions later. Or not even asking questions later and just shooting. We are a nation of laws, these goons can therefore go through the legal system if they have some actionable intelligence, call the police for Christ's sake, use the courts, obey Due Process, Miranda, Habeas Corpus, Presumption of Innocence, the Bill of Rights, Constitutions of the States and of the country, etc. These federal agencies think they're above the law. They were alarming when they were created, and they're even worse today.

[+OverSword]

I was nto refering to taking away firearms, I was refering to lawfully doing their jobs in general.

Unfortuanately the numbers show that the police shoot people at a vastly higher rate than people shoot at them. That is just unarguable.

[Merc14]

Now the question is why don't they start passing legislation that would end the need to prepare for civil unrest? Such as reigning in out of control government spending? Trillions in debt and growing. Why do they pass bills like the patriot act, taking away our rights? The patriot act which interestingly was written before 9-11? Could it be they want civil unrest as an excuse to take more rights and more freedoms from us, turning the USA into a nation where instead of the government serving the people, the people serve the government? If you just consider this particular issue without asking yourself questions like these at the same time your a fool.

Obama and his ilk are worshippers of Saul Alinsky. and this is all going according to Saul's plan. What people don't understand is Obama isn't screwing up, he is succeeeding beyond his wildest dreams. Destroying the middle class and making them dependent on a socialist type central government is the number one goal and we are damn near there.

[RavenHawk]

This isn't about reacting to threats, this is about unusual threats.

Isn't that also reacting to unusual threats? A threat is a threat.

And no, its not to 'desensitize them from firing on the American public'.

If the state turns the unusual threat into the common place, it can only have the effect of training LEOs for that eventual outcome.

You do realize that police have been using American looking targets for years, right? The difference between these and those is that these aren't all 30yo male targets.

The "usual threat" has been adequate for many many years. What's behind changing now? The difference is that it's not needed. All the shooting instructor would need to say is: "Just remember that 30yo male target could be a pregnant woman". If you were taking these tried and true targets as they were meant to be then that was good enough. As I mentioned before, LEOs aren't going to be running into that many pregnant criminals with intent to do harm that warrant targets of their own. If LEOs are gearing up to deal with a rash of gun toting pregnant women, then this is more than criminal activity. These pregnant women are not knocking over a bank or something like that. They are defending their family and future from a tyrannical state and LEOs are being used as robots. In that case, it's the LEOs that have become the enemy of the people. I would think that most of the intelligent LEOs will question using such targets for that reason. They are here to protect the people, not control them.

[RavenHawk]

That post clearly shows your lack of understanding of the topic.

Nope. It clearly shows that I understand the satirical pov that AsteroidX was sharing.

[Stellar]

Isn't that also reacting to unusual threats? A threat is a threat.

I'll explain it once again. Humans have a psychological 'resistance' to killing its own species. This can be overcome, but it still exists, and it exists on some people more than others. This psychological resistance can cause someone to hesitate to kill their target --- something that has been proven in combat. It was discovered that using human shaped targets during military training reduced this resistance and hesitation, making it more likely that the soldier would shoot the target, and do it promptly. This psychological resistance also varies when it comes to age and gender of the target. Fighting aged males are traditionally easier (psychologically) to kill than woman, children and the elderly, despite the fact that each one of these people can kill you just the same.

If you doubt this exists, just look at the reactions to these target: people are freaking out. It is proof of the very psychological resistance I speak of.

[AsteroidX]

I'll explain it once again. Humans have a psychological 'resistance' to killing its own species. This can be overcome,

Yes we call them psychotic murderers of schoolchildren today in America.

[Stellar]

The "usual threat" has been adequate for many many years. What's behind changing now?

Actually, it hasn't. If you read the link I posted a few pages back, or just do a Google search, I'm sure you'll find a number of police officers talking about how hard it would be for them to kill a teenager or child that's holding a gun to them or shooting at them.

The difference is that it's not needed. All the shooting instructor would need to say is: "Just remember that 30yo male target could be a pregnant woman"

No, that's not enough, and shows that you don't understand the issue. If that was 'all that was needed' then the military would still be using bullseye targets---but its not.

These pregnant women are not knocking over a bank or something like that.

"These pregnant woman" are nothing more than paper targets and can be used in any scenario the instructors want, including "robbing a bank".

Again, you don't understand the subject and are just freaking out because that's what you want to do. You want a reason to hate the government, and this serves the purpose.

Yes we call them psychotic murderers of schoolchildren today in America.

We also call them soldiers, police and Chuck Norris...

Edited February 21, 2013 by Stellar

[AsteroidX]

We also call them soldiers, police and Chuck Norris...

Can you define the we in this please ?

[Stellar]

Can you define the we in this please ?

Society.

[RavenHawk]

Ehh, this is where I dont like the "us" term. They're not necessarily preparing for "us" as in all of us. They're preparing to do their jobs, and if they encounter someone who threatens them, they're preparing for *that* person.

We're not talking about *that* one person. We are talking about armed pregnant Americans. LEOs do not need a store of such targets to deal with *that* one person.

My talk of "preparing for civil unrest" was separate from the talk about these targets. I did not mean to imply that these targets are *for* preparing for civil unrest. The targets are targets designed to prepare people to respond properly to shooting any legitimate target they are presented with. And these pictures are all legitimate targets, since they're all holding up weapons pointed at the DHS/LEO agent.

But that is the only reason for their existence. By showing pregnant women on targets, makes them legitimate targets. If civil unrest does come and we are certainly not immune from it. Pregnant women will be arming to just defend themselves from anybody. That will put them at the top of the list of legitimate targets for LEOs.

On a separate note, I also believe the DHS has plans for civil unrest because thats their job--- to be prepared for such eventualities.... and considering how much talk of civil unrest there is, and how many people on these very forums alone have talked about revolution, it'd be foolish for them *not* to prepare for it. And if there is civil unrest and people start going after LEO/DHS agents trying to lawfully do their jobs, these people should be prepared aswell.

If revolution does come, it's not going to be led by bank robbers and gang bangers. LEOs will be going up against their family, friends, and neighbors. They are going to have to make a personal decision as to which side they are going to take. At what point does lawfully doing their jobs become breaking the public trust and standing with a tyrannical government against the people, which they should have taken an oath to protect (people)? When are they going to issue targets with DHS/LEO agents on them?

Edited February 21, 2013 by RavenHawk

[AsteroidX]

Society.

You speak for society ? Which society ?

[Stellar]

We are talking about armed pregnant Americans.

No, we're talking about armed pregnant americans pointing their guns at a LEO doing his lawful job.

[Stellar]

By showing pregnant women on targets, makes them legitimate targets.

Pregnant women shooting at police officers have always been legitimate targets...

Pregnant women will be arming to just defend themselves from anybody.

No one says that those targets are "defending themselves" at all. What if I told you that those targets just held their neighbors daughter hostage and the police decided that they had to intervene in force?

If revolution does come, it's not going to be led by bank robbers and gang bangers. LEOs will be going up against their family, friends, and neighbors. They are going to have to make a personal decision as to which side they are going to take. At what point does lawfully doing their jobs become breaking the public trust and standing with a tyrannical government against the people, which they should have taken an oath to protect (people)? When are they going to issue targets with DHS/LEO agents on them?

I'm sorry, I didnt see a sign on the targets that said "These targets represent lawful americans defending their families from a tyrannical government. Only use them for training to enslave the US population."

Or are we going by the premise that the only bad guy LEOs will ever face are middle-aged males?

[Professor Buzzkill]

I'm sorry, I didnt see a sign on the targets that said "These targets represent lawful americans defending their families from a tyrannical government. Only use them for training to enslave the US population."

Or are we going by the premise that the only bad guy LEOs will ever face are middle-aged males?

Where does it say they are criminals? the discription of the "targets" actually says "Pregnant woman in her home" or "Young mother at the park" etc. Not really the place you'd expect to find criminals.

Edit: I know they are pointing guns in the pictures, but that does not make them criminals. It is not a criminal act to defend yourself from ANYONE (including LEO's) who is breaking the law.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Professor Buzzkill

[rashore]

Just information... Still not trying to comment or give opinion on anything....

The LET site is still slow. But I did find it interesting on a search that LET already offers a pregnant woman with a gun target. http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=LE-33 By the clothes, I would guess this might be an older target.

At at the time of my posting, searches for No Hesitation targets are not coming up anymore on the LET site. I'm pretty sure they have removed them from the site.

[MichaelW]

Eat Chinese much ?

I hate Chinese food. It smells like feet and looks terrible. Indian, Italian and Mexican's where it's at.

No he's not. He's a performer with an audience and acts over the top because it's enertaining and controversial.

Yes he is. Anyone that thinks gay people are evil is crazy.

[Stellar]

Where does it say they are criminals?

Thats my point... it doesnt say anything. They're paper targets that can be used in ANY context.

I know they are pointing guns in the pictures, but that does not make them criminals. It is not a criminal act to defend yourself from ANYONE (including LEO's) who is breaking the law.

That is the most ridiculus bull**** excuse I've ever heard. I'm sorry, but thats just utter stubbornness. By your logic, ALL paper targets are bad, because the paper target of the middle aged male pointing an AK at me "doesnt make him a criminal/enemy". You expect the rest of the world to accept your opinion when you can't even be reasonable?

What, in your opinion, would be a valid "target"? A middle eastern guy in a turban holding a weapon? Just because a middle eastern guy in a turban is holding a weapon and pointing it at you doesn't mean he's a criminal, by your logic. He could just be defending himself from a cop breaking the law.

I'll tell you what IS breaking the law. Drawing your weapon and pointing it at the police officer when he's upholding the law. THAT is illegal, regardless of whether you're a pregnant woman, regardless of what convoluted logic you decide to apply. The targets dont depict a "pregnant woman defending her home from a cop that's gone rogue and is breaking the law" the targets simply depict a "pregnant woman pointing their weapon at you", that is all. Do you think that a cop, even in the most free country ever to exist, would not defend himself from someone trying to kill him simply because the person holding the gun is pregnant?

Maybe the reason you and the rest of your alarmist, conspiracy-filled, "the sky is falling down", "everyone is out to get us" buddies of yours arent taken seriously is because you cant even be rational.

[AsteroidX]

Theresa theres a demon in my closet thread that way ----------------

[Jackofalltrades]

It seem's to me that the DHS and the American government in general are trying to use coercive persuasion (a,k,a mind control/brainwashing) for the people that work in/for the DHS/American government...

It also seem's that they (DHS/American government) know that the not so distant future is going to get rough for America in general...

When ANY person start's to see target's that are like the one's in the OP, it is the time to start worrying, as it seem's they are ready AND willing to kill ANYBODY that stand's in their way...

Anybody that condone's the use of those images for target practice need's to re-valuate their moral's and value's (in my opinion)