Poll, Has religion made the world better?

[freetoroam]

sorry to dissapoint your islam hating attitude but if you don't like the facts maybe you should take it up with your historians ?

it ain't my fault history is the way it is .. if you hate it to level of denying it then write your own history in whichever way it suits your view

like it or not .. islamic empire was on top of the world in it's golden age even your " European " historians would not disagree

it's amusing how one's hate can blind them .. carry on

Did i say I hate islam? I do not and would never follow it, but each to his own....until he starts killing us!!!!!!!!

You come on here and try to undermine the Europeans, that to me is the kind of thing only a backward, hate filled, barbaric person will do.

But you are only proving that religion IS the worse thing to happen to this planet when you come out with things like that.

My family were Pagans and trust me on this, islam did not and does not rule anything in our country.

[Frank Merton]

All kinds of ideologies have now and then set out to conquer the world. I think even the Communists had such notions for awhile. Now it seems to be only Islam that keeps the idea on its agenda. For the sake of humanity, I sure hope they don't succeed.

[Knight Of Shadows]

Did i say I hate islam? I do not and would never follow it, but each to his own....until he starts killing us!!!!!!!!

You come on here and try to undermine the Europeans, that to me is the kind of thing only a backward, hate filled, barbaric person will do.

But you are only proving that religion IS the worse thing to happen to this planet when you come out with things like that.

My family were Pagans and trust me on this, islam did not and does not rule anything in our country.

in fact if you go back to my first post i didn't even mention europeans .. you did

only stated why I think religion " my " religion made my part of the world better

and explained why i thought so

then you came knock the door and heard the answer

so give me a break i don't wanna get into endless argument with you

if you have issue with islam accomplishing what it did back in the days take it up with historians

am not here to give history lessons

have a good day or night

edit : don't think when saying people from europe came to arabic countries to learn knowledge back in history during the golden age of islam is considered undermining

and that's the only time i mention europeans

Edited February 24, 2013 by Knight Of Shadows

[redhen]

I think credit is due to the Roman Catholic Church for the development of many good things. Here's a commercial from 2012;

[media=]

[/media]

I anticipate many UM'ers spitting up their coffee when they come to the segment on inventing the scientific method, but the fact is that the Bishop of Lincoln, Robert Grosseteste, is widely regarded as the founder of this paradigm.

This video leaves out many other things that made the world a better place; music, art, architecture and food/wine. Mendel is also credited as the founder of genetics. I've seen this whitewashed in college textbooks. The one I had simply stated that he lived in a monastery. True, but he wasn't a visitor or guest, he was the Abbot there.

[freetoroam]

in fact if you go back to my first post i didn't even mention europeans .. you did

only stated why I think religion " my " religion made my part of the world better

and explained why i thought so

then you came knock the door and heard the answer

so give me a break i don't wanna get into endless argument with you

if you have issue with islam accomplishing what it did back in the days take it up with historians

am not here to give history lessons

have a good day or night

edit : don't think when saying people from europe came to arabic countries to learn knowledge back in history during the golden age of islam is considered undermining

and that's the only time i mention europeans

I did not say Europeans, i said the christians had killed many, that includes the Europeans and stated the muslims are doing the same thing. Hence why I tick worse.

you have stated that islam has made the world better...I completely disagree with that, like i completely disagree that christianity has made the world better,

But please do not think that all of us Europeans are christians or that islam has had any good influence on us.....it has not.

[Knight Of Shadows]

I did not say Europeans, i said the christians had killed many, that includes the Europeans and stated the muslims are doing the same thing. Hence why I tick worse.

you have stated that islam has made the world better...I completely disagree with that, like i completely disagree that christianity has made the world better,

But please do not think that all of us Europeans are christians or that islam has had any good influence on us.....it has not.

want me to nod and agree ?

well sorry am not that kinda of person .. you are wrong

and many things you use in your daily life .. was thanks to islam and islamic inventors

it's good to know who invented those things we use every day and take for granted

here's a good article

From coffee to cheques and the three-course meal, the Muslim world has given us many innovations that we take for granted in daily life. As a new exhibition opens, Paul Vallely nominates 20 of the most influential- and identifies the men of genius behind them

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/how-islamic-inventors-changed-the-world-469452.html

like i said .. like or not this is just what it is

[freetoroam]

want me to nod and agree ?

well sorry am not that kinda of person .. you are wrong

and many things you use in your daily life .. was thanks to islam and islamic inventors

it's good to know who invented those things we use every day and take for granted

here's a good article

From coffee to cheques and the three-course meal, the Muslim world has given us many innovations that we take for granted in daily life. As a new exhibition opens, Paul Vallely nominates 20 of the most influential- and identifies the men of genius behind them

http://www.independe...rld-469452.html

like i said .. like or not this is just what it is

we could fill up a few pages on how the Chinese, Europeans and Africans changed the world, the muslims are not the only ones FCOL!

Like it or not, they are not that special!

HA! and all this "knowledge" and what have they done with it? they are murdering themselves on their own streets! yep, very clever!

[Knight Of Shadows]

you said .. and i quote

"But please do not think that all of us Europeans are christians or that islam has had any good influence on us.....it has not."

well above a list of how muslims had alot of good influence on you so bask in that

[freetoroam]

you said .. and i quote

"But please do not think that all of us Europeans are christians or that islam has had any good influence on us.....it has not."

well above a list of how muslims had alot of good influence on you so bask in that

Oh, and what did people do before them? the Chinese have a far longer history to go on. The muslims are not the oldest people on this planet, have you ever wondered where they got their ideas from?

So many things have been invented throughout history, you come up with 20 and you think that makes them the worlds leader?

Edited February 24, 2013 by freetoroam

[Knight Of Shadows]

Oh, and what did people do before them? the Chinese have a far longer history to go on. The muslims are not the oldest people on this planet, have you ever wondered where they got their ideas from?

So many things have been invented throughout history, you come up with 20 and you think that makes them a worlds first?

so you want more ? sure

here's general idea of more things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

and here is more in-depth things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_medieval_Islam

the medicines we take everyday was probably founded thanks to islamic inventors

sure they took and improve from previous nations but the least you can do is to give them credit for things you still use till this day instead of disdain

aside from things they invented on their own

the point proven .. they did have good inflenuce on you and everyone else

and they did made the world better

in case you want more explaining of how islam and muslims

did more than enough to establish the modern science regard math , medicine , engennering , services , astronomy , etc etc

that improved our current daily life let me know

am going to sleep this scene is dead ..

words fall on deaf ear .. time is wasting and still am here ??

night night

[freetoroam]

Chess and the fountain pen? come on!!!!

[Bendy Demon]

and spirituality leads naturally to religion.

Spirituality has nothing to do with religion..the two terms are not synonymous.

Religion is merely a organization filled with memorized rituals whereas 'spirituality' deals with how we relate to the world and how our views affect us and others.

Anyways, I voted 'irrelevant' only because while I detest religion I also know that people use their religion to rationalize whatever they do be it good or bad rather than understanding that real actions have real re-actions.

[eight bits]

Knight

am not here to give history lessons

Just as well. "The Golden Age of Islam" is a controversial interpretation of the years from 750-ish through the next four or five centuries. The Christian Europeam Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire) survived the end of the "Golden Age" by two centuries, maybe three.

There's nothing unusual in world history about a militarily successful empire acquiring culture from the gentler peoples it subjugates, nor is providing a common language for commerce and scholarship an unsual side effect of wide-spread domination. The ancient Romans took much fom the Greeks and Egyptians they put under their heel, and promoted Greek as a lingua franca.

[Knight Of Shadows]

Knight

Just as well. "The Golden Age of Islam" is a controversial interpretation of the years from 750-ish through the next four or five centuries. The Christian Europeam Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire) survived the end of the "Golden Age" by two centuries, maybe three.

There's nothing unusual in world history about a militarily successful empire acquiring culture from the gentler peoples it subjugates, nor is providing a common language for commerce and scholarship an unsual side effect of wide-spread domination. The ancient Romans took much fom the Greeks and Egyptians they put under their heel, and promoted Greek as a lingua franca.

throughout history nations have succeed one another

and each one of them came under certain religion

and each one of them have contributed for advancement of knowledge

they take they improve they invent new things

till it reached the level we have today ? am i wrong so far ?

now what appears to me very distasteful is the way

the islamic nation contributions are overlooked on purpose

due to the bad image given to muslims for political reasons

every nation have a time to contribute to the world

and when the time came for islamic nation to make that contribution

islamic nation did it more than it's part and done it perfectly

and history support that .. or what's left of it does

for the bigger part went poof or changed ownership

do you disagree that islamic empire has made just as much contributions

to humanity as whole during it's golden ages ?

just as much any other nation or empires ?

but all you hear now about muslims is the two scenrios

- the bad scenrio is when muslims portrayed as terrorists , jihadist , murderers

- the good scenrio is when muslims portrayed as " alleged " terrorists , jihadist , murderers

if we want to look at islam true idenity .. let's look how islam was

during it's golden ages during the islamic empire .. that's islam

but why deliberate blind eye and denial remains on islamic contributions

is simply beyond me as ignorance is not excuse for everyone have access to history

notice : sorry for typos if they exist i been trying to sleep since 6 hours

[freetoroam]

if we want to look at islam true idenity .. let's look how islam was

during it's golden ages during the islamic empire .. that's islam

No one is denying that the muslims have contributed, we are just saying they are not the be all and end of of knowledge.

I do not see the muslims looking at how islam was during the golden ages during the islamic empire when i see what is going on in many of those countries today, eg: Egypt, so why ask us to when they are not even doing it themselves?

[freetoroam]

Sorry, but if islam was the real islam during the golden ages, then it did not teach their next generation very well.

[Knight Of Shadows]

if we want to look at islam true idenity .. let's look how islam was

during it's golden ages during the islamic empire .. that's islam

No one is denying that the muslims have contributed, we are just saying they are not the be all and end of of knowledge.

I do not see the muslims looking at how islam was during the golden ages during the islamic empire when i see what is going on in many of those countries today, eg: Egypt, so why ask us to when they are not even doing it themselves?

you're fine example of denying above in a previous page you denied that islam had ANY good influence on you " europeans "

you only admitted after you got cornered " smirks "

[Knight Of Shadows]

Sorry, but if islam was the real islam during the golden ages, then it did not teach their next generation very well.

no need to apologize i enjoy good debates just as long they are reasonable

islam is more than what you see on tv

[freetoroam]

you're fine example of denying above in a previous page you denied that islam had ANY good influence on you " europeans "

you only admitted after you got cornered " smirks "

Cornered? what by a fountain pen and a chess board?

[freetoroam]

no need to apologize i enjoy good debates just as long they are reasonable

islam is more than what you see on tv

I know, I was living in London during the tube (this affected me) and bus bombings, t.v was not my only witness!

[Knight Of Shadows]

I know, I was living in London during the tube (this affected me) and bus bombings, t.v was not my only witness!

what you witness now is the reaction of many years living in oppression under foreign countries

when foreign countries came and conqured islamic countries that were part of islamic empire they were not as merciful as muslims conquests

this oppression changed some people's mind to exteremists

notice the " some " which means very small percentage of muslims

that doesn't make what they do right .. neither islam support their actions

but none the less .. they are results of foreign countries actions

and that small percentage is what they show you on media only

they only show you the guy burning flags .. or the guy screaming his lung out all non-muslims go to hell

i for one would like to see on tv a muslim on news just baking cookies .. yes we got cookies

without following it with flash news that cookie bomb just exploded in widely inhabitant area

[freetoroam]

i am anti war.

Every man has a right to defend his country.

But those who did the bombings were not defending "their" country, they were living in England as British citizens. They killed and injured innocent people in the name of islam. There is absolutely no excuse for that. Like there is no excuse for a muslim person to be killed in their own country in the name of war! all of that disgusts me, But we got attacked here by people living here.

After all these years of wars down to religion, today we have the islamists still killing in the name of religion. there is no doubt the other religions have done their fair share of murders, hence the reason I do not follow religion.

It does not mean that all the people are bad, and we can not blame everyone for the murderers, but as for the religion itself, it is not for me and today it happens to be the islamists who are doing what so many people have died in the past to stop....even muslims in their own country.

England is not a muslim country, so when we have a few shouting their hatred towards the west, I think: not another load of religious freaks!! (this time they happen to be muslim) but rest assured if they were another cult, i would feel the same.,

[Everdred]

The problem with the idea of these "Islamic" contributions to the world is that it takes the contributions of many people who happened to be Muslims and attributes it to Islam.

The historical reality is that the Arabs, after concocting that religion, were driven to war and expanded rapidly, conquering peoples living in the remnants of the highly advanced Roman Empire. The Arabs imposed laws making conversion to Islam a very smart socioeconomic choice, and so most people, being not especially bound to their faiths, converted, and then went back to studying the same philosophy and science they had been before the conquest. But then, starting in the 14th century, an increasingly anti-science trend emerged in Islam and eventually it became heretical and illegal to study things other than the Quran, and thus Islamic society stagnated and was rapidly surpassed by other societies without such religious constrictions.

So in fact Islam has clearly been a force against advancement. It was only in the period when Islam did not seek to religiously influence study that advancement occurred.

[Knight Of Shadows]

The problem with the idea of these "Islamic" contributions to the world is that it takes the contributions of many people who happened to be Muslims and attributes it to Islam.

The historical reality is that the Arabs, after concocting that religion, were driven to war and expanded rapidly, conquering peoples living in the remnants of the highly advanced Roman Empire. The Arabs imposed laws making conversion to Islam a very smart socioeconomic choice, and so most people, being not especially bound to their faiths, converted, and then went back to studying the same philosophy and science they had been before the conquest. But then, starting in the 14th century, an increasingly anti-science trend emerged in Islam and eventually it became heretical and illegal to study things other than the Quran, and thus Islamic society stagnated and was rapidly surpassed by other societies without such religious constrictions.

So in fact Islam has clearly been a force against advancement. It was only in the period when Islam did not seek to religiously influence study that advancement occurred.

the most denying is that islam done nothing new and only took what others had .. wrong

this is most debateable point

remember when islam had it's run europe was in dark ages

and they introduced many new things which unfortunatly went unreconized and overlooked

but still history is quite evidence that islam not only took what others had before . it improved .. and created new things

islam went downhill by ignorance of some and " Mostly " by outside repeated invasions

when mongols invaded bagdad the river turned black 7 days coz of the amount of books thrown in it by mongols

and at the end of ottoman empire the islamic empire was divided into smaller countries between england , france , italiy and such

that's how it went downhill .. not to mention previous crusades that wore it down too

Edited February 24, 2013 by Knight Of Shadows

[Professor T]

If we were not fighting over religion, we would still be fighting - people seem to be in a constant battle for supremacy and ownership of what is "right". "You are wrong I am right and therefore I deserve the riches of this life and eternity and you do not". This is the hidden mantra of the masses who kill and fight in every generation to this day, there was and always will be a reason to battle for supremacy and justice over those that are "wrong" about something.

As a believer, I believe in God, I believe God believes in Humanity - all of humanity, I can question why things are as they are but I cannot claim to know.

Which is why I voted "worse" because religion is used for Control & Confromity..