The jump to the ET Hypothesis

[ShadowofaDoubt]

I am a skeptic. I'm not ready to believe that UFOs are intelligently controlled alien space craft.

I will, however, concede that there are some interesting cases that have resisted conventional explanation (so far). So, of course, I can say that I believe there are UFOs, but that's a vague statement. There is a lot of data with a little mystery, but that only ends with the term UFO. So, where does the ET hypothesis come in? How can someone jump to that conclusion without making an argument from ignorance?

I want to mention that I'm asking a question, not trying to prove a point. I want to believe. I just can't without convincing evidence.

[Royal]

Like you, most people want to believe. When an unidentified flying object{ or something that cannot be readily identified by the observer, like a plane} is spotted I think our hopeful imaginations take over and the incident is skewed into being way more towards ET than reality . However, I do not discount alien visitation outright, simply because I try to keep an open mind.

[dreamland]

Dont believe in ufo's and aliens..All these youtube videos are fake..We are the only race in whole universe.

[bison]

When experienced observers like military pilots see things in the air at close enough range to identify them as a metallic and obviously products of technology, and then see them move at speeds impossible for any manmade aircraft to attain, the extraterrestrial explanation doesn't seem especially unreasonable. The UFO literature is full of such reports, and has been for decades.

Before the military decided on its closed-mouth policy, many highly-placed military officers spoke in favor of the extraterrestrial explanation for such things. This, too, is a matter of record.

[StarMountainKid]

I think the ET hypothesis arises because what other rational explanation is there? I'm sure there are other explanations besides ET, but for me, ET seems to be the most reasonable.

[dannyboy52]

Dont believe in ufo's and aliens..All these youtube videos are fake..We are the only race in whole universe.

What a closed mind you have.If you think we are the only inhabitated planet in the whole universe,what a waste of space the rest is.Of couse there is life on other galaxies,we just havent developed enough technology to find them ..... yet.

[dreamland]

What a closed mind you have.If you think we are the only inhabitated planet in the whole universe,what a waste of space the rest is.Of couse there is life on other galaxies,we just havent developed enough technology to find them ..... yet.

You think i was for real?

[Lilly]

....We are the only race in whole universe.

No one can know this. You might be correct, then again there could be multitudes of ET races. What we can say is that there's currently no definitive evidence for ET visitation.

[dreamland]

No one can know this. You might be correct, then again there could be multitudes of ET races. What we can say is that there's currently no definitive evidence for ET visitation.

Lol...You think too,i was for real? Whats wrong with you people today.

[ShadowofaDoubt]

I think the ET hypothesis arises because what other rational explanation is there? I'm sure there are other explanations besides ET, but for me, ET seems to be the most reasonable.

I understand that, but coming to that conclusion is making an argument from ignorance. "I don't know what it is, therefore it's aliens".

[S2F]

With most cases of UFO's there is no actual indication of 'technology' at work. That is an inference, and not necessarily a logical one. I don't believe that the UFO's people are seeing are actually 'nuts and bolts' craft, excluding misidentifications of terrestrial craft of course. There are atmospheric anomalies aplenty that can account for a large percentage of UFO characteristics. Things like plasmas or ball lightning etc.

[1963]

No one can know this. You might be correct, then again there could be multitudes of ET races. What we can say is that there's currently no definitive evidence for ET visitation.

Ok Lilly...I promised myself that I wasn't going to give this kind of thread any more time!...but because you always claim to be open to persuasion, ... i'll bite!

And maybe, I can find out just what exactly qualifies as "definitive evidence" for you?

Because that is the one thing that just stumps the hell out of me!

What is required for you to accept that Extraterrestrials or Extradimensional beings have and are in fact still, visiting our world?...What evidence is required?

Now let's see just what we do have ,.[in abundance!]... Sworn testimony of close up sightings of anomalous looking craft, from professionals such as trained observers with many years of experience , yet they cannot identify them!...Sworn testimony from a multitude of seasoned military , civilian and commercial pilots that have graphically described these anomalous craft performing unbelievable feats of maneuverability and speeds that conventional technology can only dream of!... Sworn testimony from equally qualified observers that in their opinion, there was no doubt that these craft were being controlled in an intelligent manner!...Sworn testimony from reliable witnesses that they have witnessed 'actual beings' either on-board, or in close proximity to these craft?

....Also we have a plethora of RADAR-Visual evidence that are often , and authoritatively sited as the most authentic of all!

Do you require undebunked photographs?...Because of the despicable 'Hoax-element' in the field, these are harder to be found,..but I believe that there are a few decent examples...ie, the Paul Trent pictures.

Do you require undebunked video evidence?...Youtube is the domain of the charlatan-hoaxmeisters in the field!,But I believe that at least The Nick Mariana film is authentic.

Do you require physical trace elements?...again, this is an area that is plagued by the cynical fame/attention/fortune-grabbing element that is sadly all too abundant in most topics of interest...but then again, there are still valid examples to be found...ie, The Lonnie Zamora case.

Do you require me to produce an actual downed flying saucer and it's unfortunate crew?....Well sorry...I can't find one of those!. ...but i'm still working on it!..

seriously though Lilly....i'm really not sure what more you need?

Cheers.

[S2F]

Ok Lilly...I promised myself that I wasn't going to give this kind of thread any more time!...but because you always claim to be open to persuasion, ... i'll bite!

And maybe, I can find out just what exactly qualifies as "definitive evidence" for you?

Because that is the one thing that just stumps the hell out of me!

What is required for you to accept that Extraterrestrials or Extradimensional beings have and are in fact still, visiting our world?...What evidence is required?

Now let's see just what we do have ,.[in abundance!]... Sworn testimony of close up sightings of anomalous looking craft, from professionals such as trained observers with many years of experience , yet they cannot identify them!...Sworn testimony from a multitude of seasoned military , civilian and commercial pilots that have graphically described these anomalous craft performing unbelievable feats of maneuverability and speeds that conventional technology can only dream of!... Sworn testimony from equally qualified observers that in their opinion, there was no doubt that these craft were being controlled in an intelligent manner!...Sworn testimony from reliable witnesses that they have witnessed 'actual beings' either on-board, or in close proximity to these craft?

....Also we have a plethora of RADAR-Visual evidence that are often , and authoritatively sited as the most authentic of all!

Do you require undebunked photographs?...Because of the despicable 'Hoax-element' in the field, these are harder to be found,..but I believe that there are a few decent examples...ie, the Paul Trent pictures.

Do you require undebunked video evidence?...Youtube is the domain of the charlatan-hoaxmeisters in the field!,But I believe that at least The Nick Mariana film is authentic.

Do you require physical trace elements?...again, this is an area that is plagued by the cynical fame/attention/fortune-grabbing element that is sadly all too abundant in most topics of interest...but then again, there are still valid examples to be found...ie, The Lonnie Zamora case.

Do you require me to produce an actual downed flying saucer and it's unfortunate crew?....Well sorry...I can't find one of those!. ...but i'm still working on it!..

seriously though Lilly....i'm really not sure what more you need?

Cheers.

Hey '63.

I don't think it is entirely unreasonable for people to want something a little more tangible than what we have so far. Maybe even something that one could put their hands on, metaphorically speaking?

[1963]

Hey '63.

I don't think it is entirely unreasonable for people to want something a little more tangible than what we have so far. Maybe even something that one could put their hands on, metaphorically speaking?

Hi there old friend.

As always, your opinion is well sought and regarded by people such as me,...but could you please specify the "little more tangible" part S2F?....I wasn't just trying to start another toing and froing that we have seen on the threads a million times before, ...it's just that I truly am interested in finding out, just how the differing discerning process works in other people's minds.

Cheers Buddy.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Lol...You think too,i was for real? Whats wrong with you people today.

This is large enough forum to get people of all beliefs.

Not just the "aliens built the pyramids" but "there are no aliens, they're daemons" to "fossils are lies by Satan". The lack of emoticons (smilies) made people think you were being series.

[S2F]

Hi there old friend.

As always, your opinion is well sought and regarded by people such as me,...but could you please specify the "little more tangible" part S2F?....I wasn't just trying to start another toing and froing that we have seen on the threads a million times before, ...it's just that I truly am interested in finding out, just how the differing discerning process works in other people's minds.

Cheers Buddy.

Perhaps something that could be directly studied and verified by the scientific community?

The evidence for visitation so far is good enough to start with as far as investigation goes however by itself it isn't conclusive. Which brings up the problem of investigation to begin with. How is something as unpredictable and fleeting as UFO's going to be scientifically investigated and researched? It's not like we can build a lab and invite the UFO's (whatever they may be) in for a bit of a poke and prod. We could make the 'lab' mobile and chase down UFO sightings however that introduces a whole new set of problems. Needle in a haystack would be an understatement. It is certainly a hurdle that I would like to see overcome one day.

[1963]

Perhaps something that could be directly studied and verified by the scientific community?

The evidence for visitation so far is good enough to start with as far as investigation goes however by itself it isn't conclusive. Which brings up the problem of investigation to begin with. How is something as unpredictable and fleeting as UFO's going to be scientifically investigated and researched? It's not like we can build a lab and invite the UFO's (whatever they may be) in for a bit of a poke and prod. We could make the 'lab' mobile and chase down UFO sightings however that introduces a whole new set of problems. Needle in a haystack would be an understatement. It is certainly a hurdle that I would like to see overcome one day.

Ok, thanks for making your stance clear S2F. .You need physical evidence in your hand.

And I totally concur that the problems with conducting a comprehensive scientific investigation are enormous,..in fact without any 'known and available' artefact to authenticate, it is a practically impossible task! And so without spending the next ten years or so debating whether there are items of extraterrestrial origin secreted away from 'all but the few chosen individuals' [as we no doubt are of differing opinion on this ] all that is left for you and I to form an opinion is ...the things that I listed in my post to Lilly. [and probably a few things that slipped my mind]...ie..the validity and competency of the witnesses..RADAR readings,...the few traces of landings etc.

And contrary to the belief that some people would like to instill to the general populace...though I am a firm supporter of the ETH, I am not in the habit of endorsing 'just any and all' of the claimed 'genuine UFO/ET cases' no matter how silly...I do in fact consider myself a pretty sceptical believer!, and the cases that I would advocate as probable ETH related, are relatively very few indeed!

The reason for this is that I routinely dismiss the obviously false claims , and habitually cogitate prosaic scenarios for the remaining 'decent cases presented', and am thereby in the position of weighing up the most likely probabilities of the event as I see them, and then am able to opine whether a report is probable, possible, improbable, unlikely or even nonsense!

For example, I hate to bang on about the Father Gill case, [as we already have a thread on it,.. but it is an obvious grade A case to site as it is still fresh in my mind]...I just know that you will be familiar with the case, and with the quality and quantity of all of the witness testimony. And please humour me by acting out the roles of both , firstly... an extra witness to the event that has just seen the incidents unfold alongside Father Gill etc,...and then report your account to me as you would done in that circumstance!...and then if you would be so good as to reverse roles and give your opinions of what a witness had reported to you about the events, as if you were the reports-clerk for the case that was asked for an opinion of validity!.

if you do not wish to comply...it's ok!...but if you do it, then i'll get back to you later because it is bedtime here and i'm bushed!

Night-night Buddy.

[dreamland]

This is large enough forum to get people of all beliefs.

Not just the "aliens built the pyramids" but "there are no aliens, they're daemons" to "fossils are lies by Satan". The lack of emoticons (smilies) made people think you were being series.

Extraterrestials are deamons? hmm... the problem is deamons are invisible and extraterrestials are.

[StarMountainKid]

StarMountainKid, on 02 March 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

I think the ET hypothesis arises because what other rational explanation is there? I'm sure there are other explanations besides ET, but for me, ET seems to be the most reasonable.

I understand that, but coming to that conclusion is making an argument from ignorance. "I don't know what it is, therefore it's aliens".

I see your point and accept your criticism, but aren't we all arguing from ignorance? I just think the ET hypothesis is more rational than the angel hypothesis, for instance. I could be wrong, of course.

I suppose the jump to the ET connection is the easiest jump to make, and I fall into that connection easily, too. Maybe ufo's are angels in disguise. Maybe that's how they travel from Heaven to Earth, in supernatural space ships. As you correctly pointed out (if I'm not misunderstanding you), this conjecture is as valid as any other within our ignorance of any factual knowledge.

Edited March 3, 2013 by StarMountainKid

[Lilly]

Lol...You think too,i was for real? Whats wrong with you people today.

I think you should apply this question to yourself.

Do so after re-reading the UM rules here:

•2d. Accuracy: Do not post material that is knowingly or intentionally false, inaccurate or misleading.

•2e. Garbage posting: Do not deliberately post nonsense either for personal amusement or to wind up other members, keep your posts sensible

[Lilly]

Do you require me to produce an actual downed flying saucer and it's unfortunate crew?....Well sorry...I can't find one of those!. ...but i'm still working on it!..

That would certainly be "definitive".

seriously though Lilly....i'm really not sure what more you need?

Oh, I don't need the whole flying saucer, just a piece of alien technology, some alien DNA, open public contact between ET and humans... any of those will do nicely.

[Professor T]

Well, I'm a proponent of the Interdimentional Beings theory of UFO's/Aliens.. But that's not to say that there is no possibility that they are Extra Terrestrial. So I guess it all fit's nicely into that little Grey area between awake and asleep if you view the subject from a outsiders perspective. There are of course 3rd party sightings of this Phenomena, but in so many cases the actions of UFO's or ET's don't conform to our physical 3-d level of laws, so again, it points towards being extra-dimentional, and not nessisarily extra-terrestrial from our perspective..