how do you explain shared experiences?

[Yamato]

We often see that unexplained phenomenon is shared between one or more people who afterward describe the event in the same way.. on these threads I see skeptics challenging the validity of these phenomenon, but I never see the shared experience aspect challenged.

Examples:

1.Five people live in a house that is haunted, two of them can see the same ghost and give it the exact same description. All family members witness things flying around in the house at the same time. Other people who come over also have heard voices in the house and had never heard anything like this before.

2. three people are together in a field and all of them see three large brightly colored orbs in the sky that come close to the ground and suddenly fly off at great speed leaving a light trail

3. Three people witness a creature that looks like a werewolf, he is standing upright and is 8 ft tall, he chases them and they all go to the bathroom on themselves. Each of them describe seeing this creature clearly and each description of sequence of events and physical characteristics of the monster is the same.

4. 2 people enter the astral realm together, first they are at the beach looking at the water but then suddenly both of them are standing on a high ledge on the top of a mountain, they both are amazed and can see the exact same things.

These examples are similar to some that I have read about, heard about or have experienced with others in real life. Let's pretend that lying is not an option.. to the best of your ability how can you explain Shared Experiences?

You dont need to use these examples, you can use your own or stick to general terms. I'm just trying to explain the sort of thing I mean...

I had a shared experience with my family right after my sister died. I spent a long time writing a post in full detail and put it on the Paranormal board and it was my very first post on this website, it's what brought me here in fact, and I see that post is now gone (why?). It's pretty sad that it's gone and all the replies it had with it. Anyway, I felt someone tapping twice my shoulder in bed and turning and seeing nobody there, my dad felt someone pressing on his chest/shoulder twice and noticing the same thing. Neither of us was led by the other; this was completely out of the blue. I didn't know it happened to my dad until I told my mom about the experience and she started crying, which prompted her to tell me about his simultaneous touch. I say I "felt someone" because it felt exactly like someone tapping on my shoulder.

I know of another shared paranormal experience where my best friend's mother and sister were at a funeral of their mother/grandmother and claim they saw a ball of energy flying around the room. I wasn't there, so I can only go by what they said, but their story sounded compelling when they remembered it together. I had a massive dream about my departed grandmother speaking to me and I found out after it was on her birthday. That wasn't led subconsciously either because I had no idea what her birthday was. Parents had poltergeists after moving into a new house. Lights, sounds, displaced objects, human footsteps in the hallway, all shared together.

Of course people are skeptical. I'm skeptical of every story I hear from anyone. When it happens to you, at the very least you concede to the fact that there is much we don't know in this world.

[Frank Merton]

Now I'm going to tell a story that may or may not be true. It may really have happened or I may be just inventing it to make a point.

Many years ago my wife and I shared the experience of being visited by my wife's dead mother during the night. It happened several times; nothing really except that we both saw her clearly.

We told no one. In Vietnam being a ghost is the most horrible thing that can happen to you when you die. It means you have not gone on to rebirth but are stuck, miserable, unable to do anything except wander alone, cold, desiring life but not having it.

Would you tell others that this had happened to your relative? Isn't it far better for me to try to convince my wife we had imagined it out of our grief?

I think there may be some matters that don't pertain to science and that we should leave alone and not try to investigate or resolve.

[SpiritWriter]

I still dont agree frank, maybe you feel that way, maybe its because of culture. Well my culture if you see a ghost you need to get on medication so you should probably be quiet so people dont think your crazy. But.. we have a lot of people seeing ghosts or what have you. Your equally as crazy if you have a religious experience yet there's a church on every corner that firmly believes in the literariness of the bible... and to top it off we life in a world that is noticably insane.. but WE have to be quiet about these things?

Now if the above poster wouldn't have told her mom about what happened, they wouldn't have been able to confirm that they all had the same experience. With something as endearing as a visit from your sister, this, to me should be shared. It is also a relief to others who have or are going through similar things to know they are not alone. I for one am tired of having to be quiet and have determined I will speak freely about it if I feel the situation calls for it. And I dam sure will not pretend things like these dont exist. Experiencing something because it comes upon you spontaneously is quiet different than going out and investigating them. And thats not to say they shouldnt be investegated, the biggest vent seems to be its not proven by science ok, well what is science? Its investigation...

Talking about what happened should be a natural way of sorting out these things for yourself and collaboration with others adds to that. This is the process of any type of experience in life. If we werent meant to know anything about them, then they wouldn't be revealed to us in the first place.

[Frank Merton]

I would not say we aren't meant to know about them but that we can't know about them. They are outside what our minds can handle. And don't misinterpret that either -- such knowledge would not harm us, it would simply be meaningless to us.

[SpiritWriter]

I would not say we aren't meant to know about them but that we can't know about them. They are outside what our minds can handle. And don't misinterpret that either -- such knowledge would not harm us, it would simply be meaningless to us.

I dont think it's meaningless. I think it is full of meaning.

[coldethyl]

I don't know if this has been stated or not, but I believe it's pop culture.

When Communion came out all alien sightings looked like what we now know as 'the greys'.

When The Exorcist came out demonic haunting and possesions were the rage. When Poltergeist came out, same thing.

Also I think the brain may make the same type of hallucination depending on what is happening to it. For instance, lack of oxygen may induce a certain type of spectre as sleep paralysis gives the heavyness on the chest and the feeling of a presence in the room.

Just my opinion.

[XChipX]

I have been visiting and reading this site and these forums for 3 years now and ive been a member for a while but this is my first post and id like to comente here. I agree with CrimsonKing in general.. As to shared experiences there are many ways to take on the subject and analyze the situation.

If its in person when they are telling you the experience you can observe the way the talk and some of their corporal language to see if their are nervous, extremely relaxed of trying to make themselves to look good, their voice tones can also sido in this. This can tell you helpful things as to wether they'll be lying of telling their truth.

While reading on the forums, ive learnt that they way of writing and describing situations can also hint what they are really trying to tell and also if they take on the subject seriously.

I have had experiences myself that I dont have the answer for and others where I did find answers. I consider myself neutral between believing and being skeptic. I tend to find logical solutions before jumping to the paranormal.

Because of the above I think is neccesary to evaluate the situation first. In a shared experience case I would try to know the characteristics of the environment. What were they doing before the experience, how were they feeling, how do they feel after the experience and what do they think about it, ask about any habits they have and correlate them to make a theory, a theory that can lead you to choose to believe, not to believe and to believe their minds tricked them insto seeing of experiencing something and find a posible explanaiton.

As to wether they are inventing the story of not, you will usually find incoherencies between their story and answers of questions you can ask them for more information about the subject but this won' always work ( note a said "usually" and that can you a little bit of an idea as to wether the discussion is going to

[Alekx]

Sorry, its me XChipX, i had to remake account becuase of email reasons

[coldethyl]

Is it me or did the post above just inexplicably end in mid sentence?

Aliens?!?

[White Unicorn]

I don't know if this has been stated or not, but I believe it's pop culture.

When Communion came out all alien sightings looked like what we now know as 'the greys'.

When The Exorcist came out demonic haunting and possesions were the rage. When Poltergeist came out, same thing.

Also I think the brain may make the same type of hallucination depending on what is happening to it. For instance, lack of oxygen may induce a certain type of spectre as sleep paralysis gives the heavyness on the chest and the feeling of a presence in the room.

Just my opinion.

This is true in many cases.

I'd like to present an example. We went on several ghost tours in Gettysburgh during a vacation. Entertaining history and stories but nothing else.

In the sky one night there were several orbs. People saw them and took pictures that came out. They were definitely real whatever the lights were.

I found it interesting that the people were saying oo ghosts. If it were a UFO tour they would have said aliens or something like that, somewhere else they might say fairies, a sceptic would say a marketing hoax but it didn't happen for every tour, a scientist may say swamp gas but there wasn't a swamp, and me I just said it looks like what I call ball lightning what ever it is, I don't have enough information to say it's ghosts!..... Culture does add the spice to all the perceptions, it doesn't take from the shared experience because something was witnessed.

To me the most ghostly thing that happened was not on the tour but at an old inn. The whole town has an aura of tragedy and you can "feel" it stronger in some places, I call it picking up on the residue energy fields of past events.

I was in the restroom when the toilet paper holder flew off the wall and hit me, then the mirror jiggled on the wall. After being startled, I came out laughing and said to the owner, this place has a poltergheist. I'm serious,you could make more money than the so called ghost tours in town. She said, I know but I don't get into that stuff because they want more and more attention and will drain you of your energy and that is bad for our business.

I went to the bar to meet my spouse who was going to have an after dinner beer and told him the place was active but I couldn't see anything. He said I know I get glimps of shadows here. He believes in ghosts. As he was talking to the man who owned the bar with his wife, his beer moved away from his hand, and each time he reached for it, it moved in another direction, My spouse abruptly says to the invisible entity, Get your own damn beer! then it slid down to the end of the bar to a man who was eating. He told the bartender, Oh, I guess I can buy him a beer too if that's what he wants and ordered another beer for himself. The look on the face of the other man who was at the bar was priceless when the beer fell over on his plate! He turns white and goes Oh My God, did you people see that! This place has a demon! don't you care? and he left the his sandwich and drink. Other people at the tables that noticed the moving beer were so amazed being "ghost" seekers and got to see something. Someone asked are we all on Candid Camera or something? The owners told her no. We had fun because we were all still laughing about the sceptic seeing something weird for the first time and running out the door in fear LOL

I'm a sensitive but I am also a sceptic to the perception of what an experience really is. It takes a very long time to discover the truth behind what some things are, if ever. You shouldn't jump to any conclusions even about your own experiences that are shared by others. There are many facinating things in the world that are truly amazing, but the belief in the myths about them might be wrong.

Edited April 8, 2013 by White Unicorn

[SpiritWriter]

I agree

[CrimsonKing]

Sorry, its me XChipX, i had to remake account becuase of email reasons

I agree with the post you made from your old account above not just because you agreed with me first haha I just believe we cannot process everything,so being believer and skeptic is about the best we can hope to be and remain sound in thought.Everything must have a reason,though we may not ever always know why.

BTW welcome to UM

[Frank Merton]

The more I participate on this board, the more skeptical I become. The fact is it is too easy for people to make unsupported and even manifestly absurd claims. Maybe some of them are true, but I have no way to assess this and that they are not true becomes more and more likely.

Frankly it is discouraging.

[CrimsonKing]

The more I participate on this board, the more skeptical I become. The fact is it is too easy for people to make unsupported and even manifestly absurd claims. Maybe some of them are true, but I have no way to assess this and that they are not true becomes more and more likely.

Frankly it is discouraging.

I can see your point,sometimes people can misinterpret the ordinary for the extraordinary.I will say since i have been on this forum,even when skeptic i now try to atleast see the person making the claims whole view.Sometimes these views are just to outlandish to be believed,though even without evidence some have made me really think that they know what they had seen or experienced.If im not sure i will be considerate,if convinced of utter foolishness i will call BS!

[scowl]

The more I participate on this board, the more skeptical I become. The fact is it is too easy for people to make unsupported and even manifestly absurd claims. Maybe some of them are true, but I have no way to assess this and that they are not true becomes more and more likely.

I just don't respond to the tales from first-time posters. They usually sound like something they saw in a cheap horror movie, they usually end with a desperate plea for help because this is destroying their lives (then what the **** are you doing asking for help from strangers on the ****ing Internet???), and they almost never respond when you ask for more information.

I picture a teenage kid smirking and thinking, "I bet those smartypants skeptics won't have an explanation for this..."

[scowl]

Because it's not as if you can find your local "expert" in the yellow pages.

This place right here is the very last place you'll find a local "expert".

Do these people have no friends or family they can talk to? They never say they've talked to anyone about their experiences.

When I started waking up with hallucinations, I went to a shrink who referred me to a sleep disorder specialist who solved my problem. If this had happened thirty years later, I'd probably have a blog talking about my experiences with ghosts or aliens.

[SpiritWriter]

This place right here is the very last place you'll find a local "expert".

Do these people have no friends or family they can talk to? They never say they've talked to anyone about their experiences.

When I started waking up with hallucinations, I went to a shrink who referred me to a sleep disorder specialist who solved my problem. If this had happened thirty years later, I'd probably have a blog talking about my experiences with ghosts or aliens.

In a lot of cases people dont have friends and family they can talk to, especially about these matters.

[SpiritWriter]

I just don't respond to the tales from first-time posters. They usually sound like something they saw in a cheap horror movie, they usually end with a desperate plea for help because this is destroying their lives (then what the **** are you doing asking for help from strangers on the ****ing Internet???), and they almost never respond when you ask for more information.

I picture a teenage kid smirking and thinking, "I bet those smartypants skeptics won't have an explanation for this..."

I think some first time posters may be under the impression this is a safe place to talk about thier experiences and may even be excited they finally have a platform to share. But they are easily discouraged especially after being mocked and torn down. They may have no one at all to talk to anywhere and thier experience here may just shut them up forever.... these experiences when truly experienced are very vulnerable subjects I would think and close to a persons heart because it is an object of faith, a link to identifying ones own sanity, and probably a long kept deep secret...

[Frank Merton]

It may be that they are better off not talking about them. The retelling will enlarge the incident in the person's mind and a skeptical reception will generate defensiveness while a symphathetic reception will generate dependence.

At least this is what I find happens to me when I talk about all the ghosts (or whatever they are) that I encounter a few times a year. I am never sure enough to be strongly defensive, and I am always upset. Not a good time for quiet intellectual consideration of possibilities and probabilities. Best to just mark it down as interesting, unexplained, probably unexplainable, and forget it.

[Mabon]

A shared experience depends on the group sharing the experience.

Someone stated earlier that seeing lights in the sky would be UFOs to UFO enthusiast or ORBs to ghost enthusiasts etc. However, I think that there is something that all should be aware of and Frank pointed the way to it, FEAR.

Group A sees something and it causes them fear and they need to identify it to be able to determine what to do. If the group expected to see lights in the air and conclude it's a (UFO, ghost fill in the blank) they have no unknown fear, they have defined the fear/threat and will act accordingly.

Group B sees something they aren't looking for and it causes them fear. If you are with a group who isn't looking for X and see something fear is the first thing the group needs to contend with. A great way to get a handle on fear is to define what it is your group is afraid of. People will voice their opinion/ideas and a soon a majority of the group will start to accept the most popular opinion as being the answer.

.

Group C sees something and it causes them fear but they don't need to identify it to conquer their fear, so they investigate to determine what it is. If fear can be conquered without the need to identify X first then a skeptical process of elimination can take place to determine what it is rather than assuming what it is.

Sometimes no answer can be reached and this can cause the most problems for people who can't conquer the fear of not knowing or an unresolved event. Some people are terrified of saying "I don't know," and they'd rather make an answer fit than not have an answer.

When people post stories of experiences they've had and they haven't reached a decision on what it is, you'll often find people trying very hard to convince them what they have seen rather than someone saying "I don't know". This comes from both sides of the fence. People are often too determined to be 'right' rather than factual.

Mabon.

[acute]

There is one big problem with shared experiences: they get discussed.

If five people get chased by an 8-feet-tall bigfoot, there is no way they won't talk about it to each other, and bang goes your 'proof'!

[scowl]

In a lot of cases people dont have friends and family they can talk to, especially about these matters.

It sounds like they already have other problems to deal with.

[scowl]

It may be that they are better off not talking about them. The retelling will enlarge the incident in the person's mind and a skeptical reception will generate defensiveness while a symphathetic reception will generate dependence.

I'm concerned fools will lead them to wrong conclusions about what they're experiencing and make things worse for them.

I'm glad the Internet didn't exist when I went through my sleep disorder problems. I would have had people telling me which planet my hallucinations were from.

[SpiritWriter]

A shared experience depends on the group sharing the experience.

Someone stated earlier that seeing lights in the sky would be UFOs to UFO enthusiast or ORBs to ghost enthusiasts etc. However, I think that there is something that all should be aware of and Frank pointed the way to it, FEAR.

Group A sees something and it causes them fear and they need to identify it to be able to determine what to do. If the group expected to see lights in the air and conclude it's a (UFO, ghost fill in the blank) they have no unknown fear, they have defined the fear/threat and will act accordingly.

Group B sees something they aren't looking for and it causes them fear. If you are with a group who isn't looking for X and see something fear is the first thing the group needs to contend with. A great way to get a handle on fear is to define what it is your group is afraid of. People will voice their opinion/ideas and a soon a majority of the group will start to accept the most popular opinion as being the answer.

.

Group C sees something and it causes them fear but they don't need to identify it to conquer their fear, so they investigate to determine what it is. If fear can be conquered without the need to identify X first then a skeptical process of elimination can take place to determine what it is rather than assuming what it is.

Sometimes no answer can be reached and this can cause the most problems for people who can't conquer the fear of not knowing or an unresolved event. Some people are terrified of saying "I don't know," and they'd rather make an answer fit than not have an answer.

When people post stories of experiences they've had and they haven't reached a decision on what it is, you'll often find people trying very hard to convince them what they have seen rather than someone saying "I don't know". This comes from both sides of the fence. People are often too determined to be 'right' rather than factual.

Mabon.

You can report an experience by being factual, I saw this, I smelled that, I felt (tangible, temperature, furry etc) I felt (scared, calm etc.) If it is an apparation of a human form you describe it as such, if it is a light floating around the room you describe it as such, if objects are moving on their own, say that. These are not guesses at what happened, these are what was witnessed, these tangible pieces are not the aspect that need interpreting. The more experience, including what is gained in discussion will help you as a person identify your own personal beliefs of what these things are, or have the potential to be.

It sounds like they already have other problems to deal with.

Ok....

[coldethyl]

How do you work that one out? It's not exactly an easy subject to talk to people about.

What I get from what scowl is saying is that a person has a problematic life if they don't have one person in their life they feel comfortable they feel like they can confide in about anything. For instance, my son at a young age described to me the classic symptoms of ocd (intrusive thoughts, etc) and I knew it was hard for him, but he was able to come to me about it. He was able to do that because I have ocd and have talked to both my kids about various things that they might experience. Everyone should have someone in their lives that cares that much about them. They should feel like they can say anything and not be ridiculed no matter what the subject matter. If they have to resort to virtual people it is IMO a bit sad.

I try to explain things logically to people, SP, etc. and just get irritated when something that is so simple as SP gets taken into the realm of demonic possesion by post three. Impressionable kids who want to feel special and don't get that feeling at home are going to jump on that like white on rice and then they're not going to listen to anything sensible at all. That's when the embellishment starts IMO. More and more attention they aren't getting at home but can get from here and we're off on the same old versus.