Guns save lives thread

[aztek]

. I don't think those kinds of deaths would be entirely eliminated, but certainly reducing them is a goal worth pursuing.

at what cost?

[F3SS]

Bullets Fly After Gun Owner Comes Home to Find Two Armed Thugs Inside His House - Only One Person Escaped Unharmed

A Florida man returned home Thursday night to find two armed intruders inside.

A scuffled ensued, as well as gunfire - from the intruders as well as the homeowner, Palm Beach County Sheriff's investigators told WPEC-TV.

Both of the suspects, whose names weren't released, were shot; one died and the other was taken to a hospital in unknown condition, the station reported.

The owner of the home near Lantana was unhurt, the station said.

"I'm all for the stand your ground law," neighbor Mike Inman told WPEC. “I mean, if I come home and there’s somebody in my house, I would do the same thing."

Continued... http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/08/14/bullets-fly-after-gun-owner-comes-home-to-find-two-armed-thugs-inside-his-house-only-one-person-escaped-unharmed/

[ellapenella]

I do not know what state this occured in , so I'll just not guess which one I thought it happened in . I think that it was the one I live in though. A man and woman were leaving a restaurant . As they headed towards their truck , they were attacked by 2 men with knives . The men attempted to rob the married couple . Little did they know , they picked the wrong couple . I guess they didn't see the NRA sticker on the back of their truck .

* Not sure if both men were killed , or just one . The husband said that when he seen his wife's life in danger he did what he had to do to protect her .

Edited August 14, 2015 by Ellapennella

[Thorvir]

The husband said that when he seen his wife's life in danger he did what he had to do to protect her .

As any logical, compassionate, and truly human human being should do.

[ellapenella]

As any logical, compassionate, and truly human human being should do.

Yeah . Thank God there are brave men and women that understand that they have a natural born right to do so . I just do not and will not ever understand how anyone would comply with giving that up . They had no time to wait for police to intervene .

The acts of bad people who misuse weapons should not determine that the good guys have to give their rights up. When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have them .

I'm not ashamed to admit that I did not know of what happened in 1959 , and gun control. It's not wise to be defenseless or trust in any government to care about your well being . I think that because most people are good and caring individuals - their emotions are focused on only the bad issues concerning guns.They're not seeing the whole picture . I think they really trust in government even with their lives their children's lives with all our lives .

http://townhall.com/...ontrol-n1519095

Edited August 17, 2015 by Ellapennella

[+OverSword]

New story here.

An 18-year-old St. Petersburg, Florida man woke up to someone calling his name for help, grabbed his rifle, and came out of his bedroom to find a masked man in full tactical gear and a mask pointing a handgun at his mother.

Without hesitating, Malachi Heilser shot and killed that man, who moments earlier had smashed a window from outside the home Heisler lives in with his mother, teen sister and his mother's boyfriend, according to The Tampa Tribune.

The man Heisler killed – although he said he didn't know it when he shot – was his own father, John Heisler.

Malachi, who hid his face with a bandanna as he spoke to reporters, said he thinks he prevented more people from being hurt that night. His father was arrested earlier in the year for being a felon in possession of a firearm, and Malachi said his mom had a restraining order against him.

John Heisler was reportedly wearing all-black fatigues, a ski mask and thigh holsters when he forced his way into the home.

"I had a feeling that something like this would happen but I didn’t know when,” he told News Channel 8. "“He wasn’t a good dad, no (expletive) father of the year awards."

source

[F3SS]

Geez, I can't even give that one a like. It's so messed up.

The whole situation I mean.

[F3SS]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/03/home-intruder-likely-figured-he-held-upper-hand-in-attack-of-sisters-75-and-64-then-one-of-them-pulled-out-a-lethal-surprise/

Home Intruder Likely Figured He Held Upper Hand in Attack of Sisters, 75 and 64. Then One of Them Pulled Out a Lethal Surprise.

[Gromdor]

We can't forget news stories from the other side of the boat either though:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/texas-good-guy-with-a-gun-shoots-carjacking-victim-in-head-then-runs-away/

[aztek]

sht happens, i can post dosen of stories where cops did same thing, mistakenly killed victims, yet they got away, this idiot will be in jail, so what is your point???

[Gromdor]

Just that the news links recently posted have been rather one sided.

[F3SS]

Just that the news links recently posted have been rather one sided.

Well if you are talking about this thread, it was intended to be one sided.

[Gromdor]

One sided discussion is called "propaganda". Just replace "guns" in "Guns save lives" with "Obama" and then only post pro-Obama news links and you see what I mean.

I'm not a gun control advocate by any means but I do find the concept of "More guns will save more lives" pretty ridiculous.

Heck, most of the news links here show people getting killed by guns (sure it's mostly bad guys and crazy ex's).

[aztek]

I'm not a gun control advocate by any means but I do find the concept of "More guns will save more lives" pretty ridiculous.

what is ridiculous is denying facts, see vermont\israel\switzerland, gunlaws\availability\crime rates,

Edited October 3, 2015 by aztek

[spartan max2]

One sided discussion is called "propaganda". Just replace "guns" in "Guns save lives" with "Obama" and then only post pro-Obama news links and you see what I mean.

I'm not a gun control advocate by any means but I do find the concept of "More guns will save more lives" pretty ridiculous.

Heck, most of the news links here show people getting killed by guns (sure it's mostly bad guys and crazy ex's).

The point of the thread is because the media only likes to show when there is a gun tragedy not when people actually use it for self defense. The thread is to show people on UM a more even side since the mainstream news stories normally are not

Propaganda is just the spreading of information

Edited October 3, 2015 by spartan max2

[Yamato]

Going all the way back to pg 1, and referencing another thread even older than this one that "guns take lives", guns don't take lives or save lives. People do. Sometimes with guns, many times without. Guns don't do ****. They just sit there until someone uses them. Unfortunately guns get used politically as the scapegoat on both sides of this issue. The gun doesn't care about the character of the person behind the trigger. It just shoots a bullet at whoever it's being pointed at when the trigger is pulled.

[Michelle]

The point of the thread is because the media only likes to show when there is a gun tragedy not when people actually use it for self defense. The thread is to show people on UM a more even side since the mainstream news stories normally are not

Propaganda is just the spreading of information

You will rarely see anything like this in national news. Even when it is, it is written off because of the source. People are too lazy to fact check, as if it is so difficult.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Lets just remind ourselves that America has one of the highest homicide rates in the developed world, and all because of the free availability of guns which makes killing people far easier.

16.3 per 100,000 in USA

3 per 100,000 in EU

Which unless you want to compare yourself to Africa (12.5 per 100,000) is very informative.

https://en.wikipedia...l_homicide_rate

So yes, in the strictest sense guns don't kill, but Americans with guns do.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 4, 2015 by Br Cornelius

[Frank Merton]

You will rarely see anything like this in national news. Even when it is, it is written off because of the source. People are too lazy to fact check, as if it is so difficult.

People using guns for self defense is rather pitiful when they would be safer if there were no guns.

[F3SS]

People using guns for self defense is rather pitiful when they would be safer if there were no guns.

What about the three elderly sisters I just posted about? It seemed the intruder didn't have a gun but was big and strong enough to have his way with them, which he was. If the third sister didn't have a gun she probably would have hit him with something that only angered him or simply fell to his whim no matter what. He had no business in their home, no business causing them harm and the sisters had no business trying to come up with creative defense tactics when they rightfully had the ultimate means of protection. Those ladies would be dead/raped/beaten, you pick, if not for the gun in the home.

[.ZZ.]

People using guns for self defense is rather pitiful when they would be safer if there were no guns.

That is the most naive post in this thread.

[mbrn30000]

I am not against guns for personal safety, hunting, sport shooting. I am against the extreme notion that we will need them to overthrow the government or other such paranoid ramblings often heard from the NRA and militia wackos. From my cold dead hands is all about crazy. The right to bear arms was written in the 18th century when there was not much different than a gun kept for hunting and a gun kept for the military. I hardly think you could interpret the 2nd amendment as meaning I can have a nuclear weapon or even a tank.

If you decide to purchase a gun for personal protection, you should weigh it against all the risks. A weapon for personal protection is for one thing. Confronting a person who is about to injury to you or others. It does not good in a burglary, meaning you ain't home, or when you are sound asleep, or when your back is turned. so it is for home invaders, perhaps walking in on an armed robbery, or being carjacked, or being mugged, or in this latest case, being a student or teacher when an invader comes in. btw this was not a gun free campus. some students are going armed there. Odds are much higher it will be stolen in a burglary than ever used to protect you.

Now what are the odds of you being a victim of the above? Only you can answer that. If you are in a violent relationship, do/sell drugs, hang around people who do, live in a bad part of town, hang around gang members, then you probably need a gun. But if you don't, you need to weigh the benefit of having that gun against the other risks in your life. If you have suicidal thoughts, drink a lot, do drugs, then you probably are better off risking the other unlikelier events. If you have children in the home, or grandchildren who visit, a disturbed or mentally ill child, adult who has access to the home, you are probably better off risking the other events, because the risk of a child killing themselves or other children are higher than a middle class person being a victim of those other events. If you are in abusive relationship, have a bad temper, often fight with the neighbors, then you are probably better off risking those other events. I would love to have a gun in my hand if someone kicks down my door. But I would rather be dead than carrying my dead grandchild or shooting the neighbor kid, etc. how many parents are surprised by the college kid who comes home from school unannounced, coming in the back door? Yep, get your gun, but make sure you really need it.

I think if you added up all the accidental shootings, children playing with guns shootings, suicides by guns, domestic violence shootings, linked to drug and alcohol perhaps, neighbor disputes when a gun Is present ending in a shooting on one side, and on the other a gun owner defends himself against a lethal threat on the other, it would not be a contest. we love the latter story, but it is much, much, much more rare. Throw in the mass shootings and what was the question again? Remember almost all of these mass shootings and the other examples above are by otherwise law abiding people who legally own the weapon, well until that day.

Edited October 4, 2015 by mbrn30000

[Gunn]

People using guns for self defense is rather pitiful when they would be safer if there were no guns.

Lol. Yeah 9 out of 10 criminals agree with you.

[RavenHawk]

I love it when a mass murder occurs. All those on the Left go into hyperdrive to remove our guns. The truth of the matter is that the mass murders in this nation aren’t what skew the stats why we have a high murder rate. The reason is the high number of murders in the inner city. There are hundreds if not thousands every year per city as one or two are killed at a time. But the Left dare not go there because people will want to know the reason why and the MSM does its best to keep it out of the limelight. It doesn’t take long to understand that it is the environment created by 60 years of Progressive/Socialist rule in the inner city. Plus the leadership or lack thereof at the highest levels that enable it to get out of hand.

Banning guns is not leadership. Sure, take away the guns and you reduce the number of mass murders by firearm. That does nothing to control people’s passions. People are creative and will find other ways to kill. The majority of murders are done up close and personal. Knives and blunt objects are plentiful. There’s also poison and pushing someone in front of a moving vehicle or off a high altitude. You can drive a speeding car into a crowd, detonate a bomb in a crowd, or even use a box cutter to fly a plane into a building. Then there’s the black market to find a gun. And people are capable of making their own guns and you don’t need a machine shop. Now, you can even print one up.

Here in Albuquerque we just recently had a son stab his father to death and severely injure his mother. Kathy survived but she was sliced from the eye socket to the jaw and her arms were severely traumatized that she can no longer perform as an MD. (http://www.abqjournal.com/634810/news/parents-tried-for-years-to-help-troubled-son.html) and (http://krqe.com/2015/08/24/man-arrested-in-deadly-northeast-albuquerque-stabbing/). Removing guns will not stop murder. It may initially slow it down but once people get use to the new norm, it’ll be as prolific as ever.

The only solution is to have more guns. We need to have the threat of fire and counter fire more prevalent in more places. Eliminate gun-free zones. Encourage more people to qualify and carry. The stigma of guns is too paralyzing in our society today. We need to become more at ease with guns. We are after all, a gun society. We all need to become more responsible for our safety and not rely on the government. We have plenty of laws on the books but because they are keyed off of guns, they are ineffective and hard to implement. The shooter in Oregon had multiple weapons and all purchased legally. One never knows when someone is going to snap.

If we don’t have guns, who’s going to protect the weak? The police cannot be everywhere. As long as the stigma between the police and the inner city continues and the ever increasing threat of terrorism, the police will be overwhelmed and insurrection will arise. Then the President will fail in protecting another one of the 5 Charges of the Preamble (insure domestic Tranquility). The weak will be forgotten. There is a truism and it says that GOD created Man and Sam Colt made them equal.

Now what the Left really wants is to take away our guns not to keep us safe but to control us. The importance of keeping guns is tied into the 2nd Amendment. The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to hold a tyrannical government (as we have now) at bay, especially when Congress becomes inept, complacent, and cowardly as it is now. Our Founding Fathers knew history. They knew that *ALL* governments when it goes unchecked long enough become more and more totalitarian in nature. The Framers gave us two ways to keep that government in check, the ballot and the bullet. The 2nd ensures both retain the true power in the hands of the people.

The 2nd is so important that it is worth sacrificing the life of every man, woman, and child. Our whole existence is tied to our freedom and how we secure that freedom. If the price of this freedom is a high homicide by firearm rate, then consider us lucky and exceptional.

[RavenHawk]

If Obama wants our guns then I think he should give up the Secret Service.