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Guns save lives thread


F3SS
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If Obama wants our guns then I think he should give up the Secret Service.

when did he say he wants your guns. paranoid are we?

I guess the UN is taking over too? change the foil in your hat.

I love it when a mass murder occurs.

yeah I am sure of that. you should change your name to raving hawk

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when did he say he wants your guns. paranoid are we?

Very paranoid and until you learn to be the same, you’ll continue to be one of the sheeple.

The bodies in Oregon weren’t even cold before he was instigating the faithful to riot to get our guns. Actually, he’s going after the ammo. We get to keep our guns and they make such nice clubs and utterly useless with low capacity mags.

I guess the UN is taking over too? change the foil in your hat.

Hardly. They are a joke and the perfect stooge for Leftist agendas.

yeah I am sure of that. you should change your name to raving hawk

Having problems with comprehension? It’s not the murders I like. It’s the response I see from the Sheeple as they are stimulated by the Left’s Pavlovian conditioning. I even structured that reply with you in mind and you still didn’t understand what was being said.

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What about the three elderly sisters I just posted about? It seemed the intruder didn't have a gun but was big and strong enough to have his way with them, which he was. If the third sister didn't have a gun she probably would have hit him with something that only angered him or simply fell to his whim no matter what. He had no business in their home, no business causing them harm and the sisters had no business trying to come up with creative defense tactics when they rightfully had the ultimate means of protection. Those ladies would be dead/raped/beaten, you pick, if not for the gun in the home.

pepper spray? Selfdefence training?

Anyway I am not against gun ownership but there should be stricter criteria and certain weapons shouldn't be available, you dont need a machine gun or whatever for selfdefence.

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pepper spray? Selfdefence training?

Anyway I am not against gun ownership but there should be stricter criteria and certain weapons shouldn't be available, you dont need a machine gun or whatever for selfdefence.

No we don't need machine guns for self defense. A semi-automatic 22 with hollow points or a shotgun would suffice to say the least. But that's not what is most important with all of this continuous gun control regulation. It's the subtle sneakiness of continuing to regulate guns with another new law over the years that chips away our eventual total rights to own guns completely, law by law, step by step, bit by bit.

Yeah It seems all good and well intentions at first with the start of banning machine guns. But then there is a line that is crossed and by then, it's too late if a enough people don't figure it out soon enough and see what they are doing. Because one day it's clips and ammo, then later on it's the semi-automatics weapons, then one day we are reduced down to a single shots and 22s. Then finally comes the day some years later, were no guns are allowed to be owned by the public, except for farmers with good reason.

They know what they're doing, trying to slowly phase out gun ownership law by law, so gun owners and supporters should realize this to the point that we say "Enough is enough and no more!"

So where do we draw the line if it's not crossed already and too late?

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^^^ Yeah explain that!

pepper spray? Selfdefence training?

Anyway I am not against gun ownership but there should be stricter criteria and certain weapons shouldn't be available, you dont need a machine gun or whatever for selfdefence.

These women were elderly. Physical self defense is almost moot when facing a young strong guy.

That's great but knuckleheads constantly infer that machine guns are for one rampant and common and for two a viable option. They are aren't banned. They are just intensely regulated and extremely expensive. Few own them and I've never heard of one being used in any kind of civilian self defense. I think gang bangers might use them but they're illegal and it's impossible to regulate those who don't follow lawful regulations but they are still no reason to point to to disarm everyday citizens. The last time I seen a machine gun on thaws because it was used in the streets was the Charlie Hebdo murders. Are they illegal in France? Did it matter? Either way, they aren't enough of an issue to even debate whether or not they are an issue to even be concerned about. Above all, you can't dictate what a need is and, further, a need or lack thereof is irrelevant when it concerns a constitutional right.

Edited by F3SS
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Guest Br Cornelius

12107841_10154049836077841_4603543025385811842_n.jpg?oh=a9ed78b83ec286fffae7d2b482e6387b&oe=56A48D59

This is a bogus argument since all Swiss citizens are trained by the military in how to use guns safely - and they are not allowed to have live ammunition at home. Switzerland actually applies the principles of an armed and highly regulated domestic militia - something the Americans gave up on a long time ago. What you have done is cherry pick a single out of context fact.

Look behind the rhetoric.

•Nearly every male in Switzerland goes through firearm training at the age of 20.

•Swiss males are allowed to keep their firearms after the end of their military service at age 30. The fully automatic weapons must be converted to semi automatic before they can keep them as civilians.

•Switzerland has universal gun registration on gun ownership.

•Switzerland has universal background checks on all gun purchases.

•Switzerland requires universal reporting of firearm transactions, whether commercial or private transfer of ownership.

•Switzerland's carry laws are highly regulated and very restricted. Other than militia members transporting their firearms on their way to militia training, very few people are allowed to actually carry firearms. And they cannot be loaded.

•Despite the militia requirement in Switzerland, the rate of gun ownership (by percentage) in the United States is much higher than in Switzerland.

•Males between 20 and 30 years of age are required to own firearms in Switzerland because they are the nation's well regulated milita. Switzerland has no standing army. It is their civilian militia (much like the intent of the American 2nd amendment) that defends their nation against foreign aggression.

•The vast majority of militia members are not even allowed to store ammo at home. And for the 2000 or so--that's right only 2000--militia members who do have ammo, it is sealed and inspected regularly.

•Switzerland's gun violence rate is fourth highest in the world. Surprised?

In reality, and perhaps ironically, and to the chagrin of the NRA, Switzerland is a fine model for the intent of the American Constitution's 2nd Amendment. They have a well-regulated militia instead of a standing army. They have universal background checks and universal licensing. They require firearm training before a gun can be owned. They have near total restrictions on the purchase and use of ammunition. In fact, they regulate and restrict much more than America does. Interesting.

Switzerland is everything the USA is not.

http://www.dailykos....rland-and-Guns#

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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This is a bogus argument since all Swiss citizens are trained by the military in how to use guns safely - and they are not allowed to have live ammunition at home.

Now I don’t know if the numbers are correct but your explanation doesn’t make it bogus. Being trained doesn’t stop human passion or prevent all accidents. And not being able to store your own ammo at home pretty much nullifies the reason for having a 2nd Amendment.

Switzerland actually applies the principles of an armed and highly regulated domestic militia - something the Americans gave up on a long time ago.

Not really. The wording in the 2nd is *well* as in efficient, not *highly* as in the people are banned from it. In the case of Switzerland, it could be that ammo can add up to be an expensive capital outlay and they don’t want it all shot up on target practice. We Americans have not given up on it despite the current POTUS’ desires.

What you have done is cherry pick a single out of context fact.

That was sort of the point. To isolate and compare to stimulate thought.

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I'd be fine with it if we treated firearms and training the same as Switzerland. The problem here in the states isn't the guns but the crazy wackos, untrained idiots, and wanna be Rambo's we freely hand them out to. I'm pretty sure in Switzerland firearm owners don't get drunk and use them to shoot open beer bottles at parties for instance.

The average American has no sense of respect or responsibility when it comes to firearms. If the average American had to treat their weapons like the military(or Switzerland for that matter) treats theirs, we wouldn't be having half the problems we have now.

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I'd be fine with it if we treated firearms and training the same as Switzerland. The problem here in the states isn't the guns but the crazy wackos, untrained idiots, and wanna be Rambo's we freely hand them out to. I'm pretty sure in Switzerland firearm owners don't get drunk and use them to shoot open beer bottles at parties for instance.

The average American has no sense of respect or responsibility when it comes to firearms. If the average American had to treat their weapons like the military(or Switzerland for that matter) treats theirs, we wouldn't be having half the problems we have now.

i've never even heard of anyone doing anything like that in real life, much less witnessed it. I would leave any party where firearms were openly present...period.

The "average American" my age was raised how to use a gun and have respect for them. I can't say the same for the generation that would be the age of my grandchildren, if I had any.

Edited by Michelle
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i've never even heard of anyone doing anything like that in real life, much less witnessed it. I would leave any party where firearms were openly present...period.

The "average American" my age was raised how to use a gun and have respect for them. I can't say the same for the generation that would be the age of my grandchildren, if I had any.

the average American? Really? Gallup says 33% of adults claim to have never fired a gun, 61% of gun owners are white males. The surveys were done in the late 90%. factor in the non adults who have never fired a gun yet, and the women who will never fire a gun, not sure where you come up with the Average American was raised to use and respect guns. I know really where you got it. You wipe it at least once a day.

Edited by mbrn30000
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I would bet the average American has not even shot a gun.

average american born in 50 or 60 sure has shot a gun. maybe those that born in 90s on have not

Edited by aztek
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I miss this thread.

It's a good thread that counters the uninformed anti-gun bias that exists, but to me guns don't save lives. Just as guns don't claim lives. There is no such thing as a good gun or a bad gun, it's an inanimate piece of wood/steel/plastic/whatnot that does nothing on its own. It's the people using the gun, as s tool, to achieve their ends, either self-defense or crime. People kill people, people also save people.

But, it is good to read stories where a gun was used to defend life and property. Like I said, good to balance things out with these stories.

Edited by Thorvir Hrothgaard
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Guest Br Cornelius

It's a good thread that counters the uninformed anti-gun bias that exists, but to me guns don't save lives. Just as guns don't claim lives. There is no such thing as a good gun or a bad gun, it's an inanimate piece of wood/steel/plastic/whatnot that does nothing on its own. It's the people using the gun, as s tool, to achieve their ends, either self-defense or crime. People kill people, people also save people.

But, it is good to read stories where a gun was used to defend life and property. Like I said, good to balance things out with these stories.

Then its a failure of the USA to deal with its dysfunctional attitude to guns. As Switzerland proves (and other countries) its possible to have high gun ownership with low homicide rates. So its Americans who are the real problem.

Br Cornelius

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guns save lives...... said no-one ever!

Guns kill....says too many uninformed and ignorant people.

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Home Intruder Likely Figured He Held Upper Hand in Attack of Sisters, 75 and 64. Then One of Them Pulled Out a Lethal Surprise.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/10/03/home-intruder-likely-figured-he-held-upper-hand-in-attack-of-sisters-75-and-64-then-one-of-them-pulled-out-a-lethal-surprise/

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guns save lives...... said no-one ever!

Go through this thread and click the links to all of the different examples of guns saving lives before you open your hole.
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average american born in 50 or 60 sure has shot a gun. maybe those that born in 90s on have not

I believe he missed that part of my statement in his eagerness to insult me.

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I believe he missed that part of my statement in his eagerness to insult me.

no I didn't. I was born in the 60's and although many fathers owned guns, I doubt many mothers or sisters shot them. Even if out of the survey, the questions were have you ever shot a gun. I do not think your nostalgic view of the 50's and 60's has anything to do with the issues of the day. It was not all roses and apple pie back then.

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The problem is not guns in most peoples hands, but we need a way for local law enforcement to act on reports of crazies, including taking their guns away. The issue with guns in the hands of thugs and gang members is an entirely a different thing. There are laws in place for them. But the crazies are abiding by our gun laws up until they take out their classmates or shoppers. We just hear stuff like they were troubled, or a loner, or obsessed with this or that.

I am not as concerned about thugs killing thugs. I would just want to help them improve their aim. But the crazies, are getting guns from legal sources, and until they commit a crime under the current law then they can do so. If we allowed civil procedures for the confiscating of guns from people who are tumbling over the edge, such as making social media threats, or threatening loved ones, or co workers, then we might stop some of this.

They use to say that the 80's were the "me" generation but I think the social media has made the current young people the "look at me" generation.

Edited by mbrn30000
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no I didn't. I was born in the 60's and although many fathers owned guns, I doubt many mothers or sisters shot them. Even if out of the survey, the questions were have you ever shot a gun. I do not think your nostalgic view of the 50's and 60's has anything to do with the issues of the day. It was not all roses and apple pie back then.

I was also born in the 60's. My dad started taking me target practicing and teaching me firearm safety from the age of six. Very few women I know my age have never fired a weapon. I don't have a clue what any of this has to do with a rosey outlook or nostalgia. I was stating what I know to be a fact according to the people I know.

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The problem is not guns in most peoples hands, but we need a way for local law enforcement to act on reports of crazies, including taking their guns away. The issue with guns in the hands of thugs and gang members is an entirely a different thing. There are laws in place for them. But the crazies are abiding by our gun laws up until they take out their classmates or shoppers. We just hear stuff like they were troubled, or a loner, or obsessed with this or that.

I am not as concerned about thugs killing thugs. I would just want to help them improve their aim. But the crazies, are getting guns from legal sources, and until they commit a crime under the current law then they can do so. If we allowed civil procedures for the confiscating of guns from people who are tumbling over the edge, such as making social media threats, or threatening loved ones, or co workers, then we might stop some of this.

They use to say that the 80's were the "me" generation but I think the social media has made the current young people the "look at me" generation.

We do, there are many channels for this. Family, friends, neighbors, therapists, doctors, employers, parishioners, barbers, lawyers, anyone. You want Hillary Clinton to use federal force and do something more. Her hands have blood all over them, which is why it's so insidious that Americans appeal straight to centralized power to address so many of the crybaby problems. Unfortunately "the crazies" are in govt too so it's illogical to appeal to mass-murderers to control mass-murderers. When solutions aren't logical they aren't going to be effective either.

Stop ignoring what your government does overseas Libs. Your true nature was revealed when Barack Obama became President and your infamous antiwar movement disappeared. You love mass murder when it's "over there". If your govt "over here" was doing to you what it does to others "over there" maybe then you'd wake up. Those magic lines drawn by govt and distance allow you not to care. Over here, over there, it's the same thing.

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