Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Guns save lives thread


F3SS
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey jo, I hate to tell you this but your the ever shrinking minority. Maybe its time for you to move - how about that independent state of Texas :yes:

Br Cornelius

Am I? Hard to tell where I sit, You know, in the USA. Even in a really liberal state like mine there are plenty of guns. I live in one of the most left cities in the nation and I just saw a guy with a gun on his hip walking down 1st Avenue at lunch today, not that common but every once in a while it happens. I said to my coworkers;

Did you see that? What? the dude with the pistol on his hip. Yeah. What do you think about that in this day and age? Meh.

Edit to say that's not the exact wording but the general tone is conveyed

Edited by OverSword
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I? Hard to tell where I sit, You know, in the USA. Even in a really liberal state like mine there are plenty of guns. I live in one of the most left cities in the nation and I just saw a guy with a gun on his hip walking down 1st Avenue at lunch today, not that common but every once in a while it happens. I said to my coworkers;

Did you see that? What? the dude with the pistol on his hip. Yeah. What do you think about that in this day and age? Meh.

Edit to say that's not the exact wording but the general tone is conveyed

Oh hon, you need to come on down to North Carolina. There are pistol packing papa's every where you turn. Just today at the grocery store, I saw a granny lady take her pistol out of her pocketbook and lay it on the counter so she could get to her wallet in the bottom of her purse. Nobody thought twice about it.

Warms the cockles of me heart. :innocent:

Edited by robinrenee
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or it might be the rabid MSM anti-gun sentiment is making people more wary of revealing the fact they own any weapons at all.

paranoia runs deep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh hon, you need to come on down to North Carolina. There are pistol packing papa's every where you turn. Just today, I saw a granny lady take her pistol out of her pocketbook and lay it on the counter so she could get to her wallet in the bottom of her purse. Nobody thought twice about it.

Warms the cockles of me heart. :innocent:

if you were really thoughtful, you would think it sad that someone feels it necessary to walk around locked and loaded. Makes me wonder how I could have lived to my ripe old age without a glock on my hip. Wonder if I have just been lucky. Or is it, I am living in the real world and you and mama parker are messed up in the head. loving your guns and all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

problem is your kind only sees conspiracy by government. even if your paranoid Klan could overthrow the government in a few years you would have a problem with that too. You do not think. you only draw one conclusion about everything in life. Something dark is at work. Evil forces always at work in government. they are plotting to take your stuff, and read your mail and peep in your windows. It must a scary place inside that deluded head of yours.

I see no conspiracy. This is the normal natural state of government. I think you aren’t understanding something here. When government is left to its own vices, it spirals into totalitarianism because it is natural for it to. It’s not so much as something dark at work as it is just Maximum Entropy. If there was one thing that our Founding Fathers wanted us to know in this Constitutional process is that simple fact. They had hoped that if we knew that, we could avoid what happens in every other nation past and present. It looks like we have forgotten that lesson.

Government is naturally evil but it is a necessary evil that must be shackled in its proper place, protecting the rights of the people. When it begins to over step that boundary, our Founding Fathers gave us two means to right it. The power belongs to the people, not the ruling elite. What’s scary is that there are people such as you that are clueless about the matter. If you are not an American citizen then I’d say that your stance is understandable. If you are a citizen, I certainly hope that there are enough millennials that have not lost the faith of what this country is and stands for and they find the overwhelming desire to learn why this nation came about.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you consider it helpful to compare yourself to Russia and Pakistan then good for you :tu:

No... No.... Don't deflect. You said that the US had a higher ratio then ANY developed nation. So you don't consider Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Pakistan or the Philippines to be developed. Either that or you exaggerated. Which is it?

The Russians, with nearly twice the firearm death ratio is NOT a developed nation?

Another study demonstrating the correlation between guns and homicides, whats significant about this study is that they accounted for the national decline in crime rates across their study period making it a level playingfield so to speak:

And another:

http://www.ajpmonlin...0072-0/abstract

And this study demonstrates that it is a persons own family who is most at risk from a gun owner, which puts the lie to the case that guns are about protection from violent unknown criminals:

I believe the quote is "A person is more likely to be killed with their own gun, then to kill an intruder"? That doesn't speak to family members, but if we want to instead say, "A family member is more likely to be killed by a gun being kept in the house, then for someone in the house to kill an intruder", I possibly could be convinced by data that could be true. But that is not the original quote, is it?

So do you all actually maintain that higher gun ownership reduces crime in the face of a wall of empirical evidence to the contrary.

I don't necessarily recognize your evidence as empirical. It could be highly biased. I'd have to sit down and digest all the studies you've presented and dig at the data to see where, when, and how the data was collected and why it was collected, and what questions were asked.

As with your previous attempt at a link to show correlation, which were all written by a HIGHLY bias individual, I'm not going to just take your word for it.

Fetish it is then.

It seems to me the anti-gun zealots are At Least as much in a fetish as pro-gun people. Wouldn't you have to agree to that?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh hon, you need to come on down to North Carolina. There are pistol packing papa's every where you turn. Just today at the grocery store, I saw a granny lady take her pistol out of her pocketbook and lay it on the counter so she could get to her wallet in the bottom of her purse. Nobody thought twice about it.

Warms the cockles of me heart. :innocent:

It's great, isn't it?

Can't wait if there's an apocalypse, the anti-gun users will be begging for our help.

Shooting guns is the best therapy, by the way. Nothing like tearing it up....safely.

I can't even believe this thread is so long; new surprises everyday.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

* Myth #5 The "Friends and Family fallacy"

It is common for the public health advocates of gun bans to claim that most murders are of "friends and family". The medical literature includes many such false claims, that "most [murderers] would be considered law abiding citizens prior to their pulling the trigger" [9]and "most shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for protection." [10]

Not only do the data show that acquaintance and domestic homicide are a minority of homicides, [11] but the FBI's definition of acquaintance and domestic homicide requires only that the murderer knew or was related to the decedent. That dueling drug dealers are acquainted does not make them "friends". Over three- quarters of murderers have long histories of violence against not only their enemies and other "acquaintances," but also against their relatives. [12,13,14,15] Oddly, medical authors have no difficulty recognizing the violent histories of murderers when the topic is not gun control - "A history of violence is the best predictor of violence." [16] The perpetrators of acquaintance and domestic homicide are overwhelmingly vicious aberrants with long histories of violence inflicted upon those close to them. This reality belies the imagery of "friends and family" murdering each other in fits of passion simply because a gun was present "in the home."

* Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"

To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.

The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count. Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3] Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold. Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2]

Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.

Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse . From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes. Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.

http://www.rense.com/general32/nine.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. Fact: A study claiming "guns more likely to kill you than help you" is a total fraud. Not surprisingly, the figure claiming one is three times more likely to be killed by one's own gun is a total lie. The author of this study, Dr. Arthur Kellerman, refused to release the data behind his conclusions for years. (3) Subsequently available evidence shows why Kellerman stonewalled for so long:

* Researcher Don Kates reveals that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims [in Kellerman's study] were killed using guns not kept in the victim's home." (4) In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim's household."

* In retrospect, Kates found, it was not the ownership of firearms that put these victims at high risk. Rather, it was the victim's "high-risk life-styles [such as criminal associations] that caused them to own guns at higher rates than the members of the supposedly comparable control group."(5)

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0701.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.

Americans love their guns, don't they....and love talking about guns....

just saying...

(don't mind me - - carry on please.... :innocent: )

.

It's even more hilarious when busybodies from other countries put in their two cents, when they don't have a clue. :whistle:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's even more hilarious when busybodies from other countries put in their two cents, when they don't have a clue. :whistle:

Thank you Michelle! :tsu:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

if you were really thoughtful, you would think it sad that someone feels it necessary to walk around locked and loaded.

Actually, I do think it's sad. It makes me nostalgic for the 50's when I was a teenager. It was a different world then.

Makes me wonder how I could have lived to my ripe old age without a glock on my hip. Wonder if I have just been lucky.

Well, you should strap one on and walk down the street. You might find it empowering. (But get a license to carry first... :yes: )

Or is it, I am living in the real world and you and mama parker are messed up in the head. loving your guns and all.

Nah... it's a cultural thing. I don't "love" guns. I'd love to "beat them into plowshares." But for right now... it's not a friendly or safe world.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Michelle! :tsu:

Like the nosey, old, retired neighbor I had for a few years. It's only because he was concerned he watched people out of the windows with binoculars and had hard wired speakers mounted at the corners of his property so he could hear every private whisper in his neighbors' own yards. He would have loved all of the new wireless, spy technology if he was alive today. :lol:

Off topic, I know, but when the word busybody comes to mind I always think of him. haha

Edited by Michelle
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah... it's a cultural thing. I don't "love" guns. I'd love to "beat them into plowshares." But for right now... it's not a friendly or safe world.

I love them about as much as my hammer, screw driver or electric drill. It's just another tool in the drawer.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Br Cornelius
The Russians, with nearly twice the firearm death ratio is NOT a developed nation?

If you knew your history you would know that Russia went through an almost total economic collapse only a few short years ago. Poverty is endemic as a consequence and the country was flooded with extremely violent mafia type organised crime. So no I do not consider that Russia is currently a developed country. That you would compare yourselves to Russia shows either an ignorance of history and current affairs or is simply ignorant.

The other counties are afflicted by the same set of circumstances or are the classic definition of developing nations.

My point stands, by comparing yourself to this basket of countries you are saying that America is a backward nation.

Here's a thing if you are going to try to discredit peer reviewed research it would do your case a lot more good if you didn't use gun advocacy opinion pieces to do it. The only way to refute acadmeic research is to site actual academic research which comes to the opposite conclusion. Advocacy opinion pieces simply do not cut it.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's even more hilarious when busybodies from other countries put in their two cents, when they don't have a clue. :whistle:

I'm sorry - if in a thread of 186 pages my tiny little observation offended - - -

Of course - - - only those living in a nation with over 300 million guns spread around the population could possibly have a clue - - - ;)

I will scurry from this thread immediately - (to sharpen my claws :P )

.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry - if in a thread of 186 pages my tiny little observation offended - - -

Of course - - - only those living in a nation with over 300 million guns spread around the population could possibly have a clue - - - ;)

I will scurry from this thread immediately - (to sharpen my claws :P )

.

You haven't offended me at all. :D I was making fun off all of the people who spend so much time telling us it is none of their business, but we should do this or that. :su

Edited by Michelle
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you knew your history you would know that Russia went through an almost total economic collapse only a few short years ago. Poverty is endemic as a consequence and the country was flooded with extremely violent mafia type organised crime. So no I do not consider that Russia is currently a developed country.

Russia is not a developed country? :lol: ok.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry - if in a thread of 186 pages my tiny little observation offended - - -

Of course - - - only those living in a nation with over 300 million guns spread around the population could possibly have a clue - - - ;)

I will scurry from this thread immediately - (to sharpen my claws :P )

.

what is not hilarious is, when people who live here don't have a clue. lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crime over the years in USA. We are historical lows by rate http://www.disasterc...ime/uscrime.htm still too high

gun ownership fairly steady, though on the lower trend http://www.gallup.co.../1645/guns.aspx

illegal alien population http://immigration.p...sourceID=000844 for the trumpastic fans

draw your own conclusions.

Edited by mbrn30000
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you knew your history you would know that Russia went through an almost total economic collapse only a few short years ago. Poverty is endemic as a consequence and the country was flooded with extremely violent mafia type organised crime. So no I do not consider that Russia is currently a developed country. That you would compare yourselves to Russia shows either an ignorance of history and current affairs or is simply ignorant.

The other counties are afflicted by the same set of circumstances or are the classic definition of developing nations.

My point stands, by comparing yourself to this basket of countries you are saying that America is a backward nation.

Here's a thing if you are going to try to discredit peer reviewed research it would do your case a lot more good if you didn't use gun advocacy opinion pieces to do it. The only way to refute acadmeic research is to site actual academic research which comes to the opposite conclusion. Advocacy opinion pieces simply do not cut it.

Br Cornelius

Yet we farm out our space program to Russia? We completely and totally fear Russia being involved in anything? Russia has no nukes, or other worthwhile military power? I'm sorry, Russia is definitely a developed nation. That is has problems means it has problems, not that it is undeveloped.

Well then, I guess I am fine with the US being a developing nation. Please go to the UN and place us on that list, since you seem to be the one who decides such things.

I do admit that the US is a violent nation. I've never argued against that. We have four times the gun death rate of pacifist European nations, and we have four times the knife injury/death rates also. We also are about four times as aggressive in just about everything else too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet we farm out our space program to Russia? We completely and totally fear Russia being involved in anything? Russia has no nukes, or other worthwhile military power? I'm sorry, Russia is definitely a developed nation. That is has problems means it has problems, not that it is undeveloped.

Well then, I guess I am fine with the US being a developing nation. Please go to the UN and place us on that list, since you seem to be the one who decides such things.

I do admit that the US is a violent nation. I've never argued against that. We have four times the gun death rate of pacifist European nations, and we have four times the knife injury/death rates also. We also are about four times as aggressive in just about everything else too.

the truth is we have some real bad zip codes.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.