A New Muslim Plan

[.AKUMA.]

Akuma the essence, the very HEART of Christianity is the belief that Jesus 1 is the son of God, 2 that he died as a blood sacrifice for the sin of all mankind and 3 that he defeated death for all of us by resurrecting the third day. I understand that most in the world do not believe this but this IS what being a Christian means. When anyone brings into question one of those three FUNDAMENTAL assertions you can see why it would be a challenge for a Christian, no? It undermines the heart of a belief system. So if it seems we are attacking Quranic figures it actually is more of returning fire rather than initiating it. Islam is fundamentally against Christianity, the very definition of "anti christ". They deny strenuously ALL THREE of these tenets. Yet they say we worship the same God. I hope that clears it up.

I appreciate the response thank you.

I will admit I do get confused with christianity at times, many say jesus is the son of god, some say he was god himself. If you place jesus as the son wouldnt it be reasonable to suggest the "father" god himself is the same god of the 3 faiths?

ofcourse jewish and islamic belief differs on jesus, but common ground on the one god can be found.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I fail to see why Muslims believing Jesus didn't ressurect is a challenge to MY faith that he did.

[+and-then]

I fail to see why Muslims believing Jesus didn't ressurect is a challenge to MY faith that he did.

Perhaps I stated the point incorrectly. The assertion that we all worship the same God is impossible when the characteristics of that God differ so much.

[pallidin]

...The assertion that we all worship the same God is impossible when the characteristics of that God differ so much.

Well now, that's a good point.

[docyabut2]

Just a question , if the mosque was built over the rock that Abraham sacrifice his son Ishamel as the muslims do believe,and promise that land why would they want the temple of Soloman the desendants of Isaac rebuilt.

[pallidin]

Just a question , if the mosque was built over the rock that Abraham sacrifice his son Ishamel as the muslims do believe,and promise that land why would they want the temple of Soloman the desendants of Isaac rebuilt.

The first conflict is over "rightful" territory. Always has been, always will.

The second conflict is the religious ideology that would control that territory. Always has been, always will.

How can there be peace under those circumstances? Never will.

[docyabut2]

The first conflict is over "rightful" territory. Always has been, always will.

The second conflict is the religious ideology that would control that territory. Always has been, always will.

How can there be peace under those circumstances? Never will.

I guess that about sums it up.

[Yamato]

Akuma the essence, the very HEART of Christianity is the belief that Jesus 1 is the son of God, 2 that he died as a blood sacrifice for the sin of all mankind and 3 that he defeated death for all of us by resurrecting the third day. I understand that most in the world do not believe this but this IS what being a Christian means. When anyone brings into question one of those three FUNDAMENTAL assertions you can see why it would be a challenge for a Christian, no? It undermines the heart of a belief system. So if it seems we are attacking Quranic figures it actually is more of returning fire rather than initiating it. Islam is fundamentally against Christianity, the very definition of "anti christ". They deny strenuously ALL THREE of these tenets. Yet they say we worship the same God. I hope that clears it up.

So you just think you're fighting a religious war, in thoughts and deeds, and so haven't evolved at all since the 10th century. Whose tall tales we believe are no reason to kill one another. They're a reason for self-interested governments to dupe the masses and raise their dander to fight over land, resources, and putting the money down the right money holes.

Why aren't you attacking Talmudic figures far more than Qu'ranic ones for their inconsistencies with your FUNDAMENTALS, who believe Jesus is boiling in excrement? They're God's "chosen ones" eh? How logically impossible that one is too. Your thinking is as roundly confused as anyone's.

[+and-then]

Zecharia 2:8 Keep poking away, Yam.

[Yamato]

Zecharia 2:8 Keep poking away, Yam.

Zecharia 2:8 For thus said the LORD of hosts, after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye:

And you're touching Palestine alright, and supporting who plunders that land, and letting a political movement full of atheists dupe you into thinking they're the Holy ones. That's at odds with Christian values and Biblical scripture both. The Bible doesn't say that those who believe in the Talmud or in Zionist political propaganda are the "chosen ones". Those Johnny come latelys didn't even exist when the scripture you're citing was written. Keep on poking andie that the latest practices in the world are the closest to the originals that the scripture spoke of. In form and in substance they have nothing to do with accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah but deny it full stop. Citing Christian scripture to defend Zionist policy is the epitome of confusion.

[buckskin scout]

Zecharia 2:8 Keep poking away, Yam.

What about Zechariah 2:4 and Zechariah 2:11?

[buckskin scout]

Zecharia 2:8 For thus said the LORD of hosts, after his glory sent me to the nations who plundered you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye:

And you're touching Palestine alright, and supporting who plunders that land, and letting a political movement full of atheists dupe you into thinking they're the Holy ones. That's at odds with Christian values and Biblical scripture both. The Bible doesn't say that those who believe in the Talmud or in Zionist political propaganda are the "chosen ones". Those Johnny come latelys didn't even exist when the scripture you're citing was written. Keep on poking andie that the latest practices in the world are the closest to the originals that the scripture spoke of. In form and in substance they have nothing to do with accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah but deny it full stop. Citing Christian scripture to defend Zionist policy is the epitome of confusion.

The oral tradition of the Talmud began during the Babylonian captivity, and was called by Jesus himself "traditions of the elders". Didn't Jesus denounce it and desired to lead people back to the true unadulterated Mosaic law that is the written Torah. Matthew 23:13, 15, 38-39.

Edited March 22, 2013 by B Jenkins

[acidhead]

From the article:

The unique importance of the Temple Mount to Judaism and to Islam makes the location vulnerable to tensions and conflicts between Jews and Muslims. Usually, these incidents originate in rumors such as: “The Jews are coming today to bomb the mosques and build their Third Temple.” Obviously, false accusations and baseless suspicions like these turn the site from a holy place of prayer and love into a site of violent political demonstrations. And, consequently, potential escalation of tension brings more restrictions and discomfort to all. Who benefits from this? Surely not the believers.

While the Israeli government ensures limited public access to the Temple Mount regardless of religious beliefs, only Muslims are allowed to pray at the place, which is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif. Otherwise, the government has prohibited everyone except Muslims from worshipping there since 1967, due to security concerns. Nevertheless, Muslims, too, are occasionally restricted. The Jordanian Waqf which administers the site has restricted non-Muslims from entering the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque since the year 2000. What’s more, non-Muslim religious symbols are not allowed to be worn while entering the site.

Freedom of worship is an essential issue. The Temple Mount, where the First and Second Temples stood, is the holiest place to the people of Israel. However, it is no less holy to both Muslims and Christians. Since this is a location that God has announced to be a “house of prayer for all nations,” it should be a place of festivity for all believers. As all who call on the God of Abraham are brothers, Jews and Christians should be able to offer prayers there in dignity and peace along with Muslims. To cast believers out from such a place, to prevent worship there, is a heinous and, quite frankly, cruel policy, which is an offense not only to men, but to Islam. God Himself condemns anyone who forbids worship:

“And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of God, God’s name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.” (Koran 2:214)

read here: http://www.jewishpre...er/2013/03/12/#

I'd agree that this is how the true free market should work... let the people decide... if these guys guarding The Rock do not allow non-muslims inside so be it... the people will decide what is fair and what is not eventually.

[Frank Merton]

Reminds me of security men who don't allow people who don't look hip enough from going into a hot night club

[+and-then]

I'd agree that this is how the true free market should work... let the people decide... if these guys guarding The Rock do not allow non-muslims inside so be it... the people will decide what is fair and what is not eventually.

Which people? It's not exactly a democracy among those who worship on the mount. You know, the ones who begin throwing rocks just after praying?

[RavenHawk]

Rebuilding the Temple does not make sense, not even for Judaism. The Temple is not just *a house of GOD* like any other church or mosque. It is 'THEE' House of GOD. The Temple was built to house the Ark of the Covenant. Without the Ark, there is no reason to rebuild. The Ark is lost to antiquity. And there is no possibility to just replace the Ark. The Ark was unique. It was the "Presence of GOD". Unless Obama comes forward and says it has been found intact. But I don't think that will ever happen. I think the Ark had its gold and jewels stripped and the tablets pulverized. So it is meaningless to rebuild the Temple.

[RavenHawk]

"A Scottish church has become the first in the UK to share its premises with Muslim worshippers.

St John's Episcopal Church in Aberdeen now welcomes hundreds of Muslims praying five times a day in their building as the nearby mosque was so small that they were forced to worship outside.

How long before Islam completely takes over the church and converts it to a mosque? Or at least begins to dictate terms?

[+and-then]

Rebuilding the Temple does not make sense, not even for Judaism. The Temple is not just *a house of GOD* like any other church or mosque. It is 'THEE' House of GOD. The Temple was built to house the Ark of the Covenant. Without the Ark, there is no reason to rebuild. The Ark is lost to antiquity. And there is no possibility to just replace the Ark. The Ark was unique. It was the "Presence of GOD". Unless Obama comes forward and says it has been found intact. But I don't think that will ever happen. I think the Ark had its gold and jewels stripped and the tablets pulverized. So it is meaningless to rebuild the Temple.

I think it is part of Judaic eschatology that the Messiah will not return until the temple is rebuilt. The N.T. states that the Antichrist will defile a temple when he arrives in the last days so common belief is that a third Temple will be built at some point. There is a Temple Institute that is preparing the garments, vessels and teaching the priests the rituals in preparation for the building to happen.

[spud the mackem]

Only 3 faiths have been mentioned here, Islam,Jews,Christians....but there are more Bhuddhists , Hindu's Sikhs Pagans and others than the 1st 3 all put together.so are some of us "backing the right horse",or is all religion just a figment of Human imagination.

I can imagine some stoneage guy sitting in his cave looking at the stars and suddenly thinking, who made those bright lights above me, some one bigger than me must have made them, and put them there, so I better be carefull, or he may kill me.Maybe if I am nice to him he may let me live, and so religion was born.....(just passing thoughts from a guy who cannot believe that a God would let little kids be harmed or killed)..

[Eldorado]

How long before Islam completely takes over the church and converts it to a mosque? Or at least begins to dictate terms?

Don't be silly, it's Scotland.

http://current.com/entertainment/wtf/88862229_i-kicked-burning-terrorist-so-hard-in-the-balls-that-i-tore-a-tendon-in-my-foot.htm

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

How long before Islam completely takes over the church and converts it to a mosque? Or at least begins to dictate terms?

"Ya wanting a Musk, do ya? Well skippy, ya can goes and build one. If ya wanna share our gaff, then ya plays by our rules".

[DarkHunter]

Only 3 faiths have been mentioned here, Islam,Jews,Christians....but there are more Bhuddhists , Hindu's Sikhs Pagans and others than the 1st 3 all put together.so are some of us "backing the right horse",or is all religion just a figment of Human imagination.

I can imagine some stoneage guy sitting in his cave looking at the stars and suddenly thinking, who made those bright lights above me, some one bigger than me must have made them, and put them there, so I better be carefull, or he may kill me.Maybe if I am nice to him he may let me live, and so religion was born.....(just passing thoughts from a guy who cannot believe that a God would let little kids be harmed or killed)..

To bad the math is flawed. There are roughly 7 billion people on earth, there are 1.6 billion Muslims, there are 1.5 to 2.2 billion Christians depending on which census/study you go with, and there are about 14 million Jews. Combined that would put the total at either 2.1 to 3.8 billion adherents to the Abraham faiths.

While for Buddhist depending on the census/study ranges from 350 million to 1 billion, about 1 billion Hindus, about 27 million Sikhs and for pagans there numbers are so small I couldn't find a good census/study on the amount of Pagans in the world today.

So your math is a slight bit off even with the low number of the Abraham faiths it numbers with 2.1 and with the high numbers it is 3.8 and with the low numbers of the religions you mention the low number is about 1.5 billion and the high number is 2 billion. I know I just did the religions you mentioned but once you get past the top 4 religions the numbers quickly drop to the mere millions. Basically Muslims and Christians make up about a third to half of the world so it is a bit more then what you seem to be suggesting.

[Zaphod222]

ahhh....if only the 3 abrahamic religions could get along, ive studied the bible and the quran and and a little bit of the torah, and ive always left thinking all 3 are the work of the same devine being. Why cant they all see that? The scriptures are like 3 parts of a single grand book......

Christianity and Judaism can, as you can see all over the modern world. Because both have dealt with modernity. Islam can absolutely not, because it is stuck forever with the doctrine that Mohammed is the perfect man and the Koran to be taken literally. And the Koran is brimming with the vilest condemnations of the the former two. So there is no concept of peaceful co-existence there... as you again can see all over the world.

Grouping these three together as "Abrahamic religions" is wishful thinking. The reality is that there are two that can live together and one that only accepts itself.

[+and-then]

Christianity and Judaism can, as you can see all over the modern world. Because both have dealt with modernity. Islam can absolutely not, because it is stuck forever with the doctrine that Mohammed is the perfect man and the Koran to be taken literally. And the Koran is brimming with the vilest condemnations of the the former two. So there is no concept of peaceful co-existence there... as you again can see all over the world.

Grouping these three together as "Abrahamic religions" is wishful thinking. The reality is that there are two that can live together and one that only accepts itself.

This is truth and it is stated as concisely and as without bias as can be done. It gets at the cause of most of the "religious" tension and bloodshed today. Thanks Zaphod.

[Frank Merton]

It would be impossible to say how many Buddhists there are, since so many are both Buddhist and something else. Thus the Buddhist population of Han China can be anywhere between zero and the entire country except a few Communists and a few Christians. (Most Communists are also Buddhists and Taoists and many add in Confucianism now that it has been politically redeemed).