skyeagle409 Posted August 12, 2013 #376 Share Posted August 12, 2013 No I don’t think I am missing the point ,if you have read the commission report and the NIST report and the pentagon building performance report you can easily find hundreds of omissions deceptions and pure speculative guess work, and quite frankly that isn’t good enough ,the case for Osama doing 9/11 should be open and shut but on every turn theirs an anomaly that can’t be explained using the governments story and the only thing that should be done is an independent investigation into this world changing event but there never will be, maybe in 50 years’ time when the real perpetrators have long gone. But, the real perpetrators of the 911 attacks have already confessed to the 911 attacks. I was also well aware of the flack coming my way for starting a thread titled AMERICA NUKED 9/11 but i thought the research by Jeff Prager, Ed Ward ,Bill Deagle and many others ought to be shared for others to make their own mind up on the validity of their research. Anyone who knew anything about nuclear weaponry and detonations would have instantly dismissed the 911 nuke story as false. There was no blinding flash nor EMP as the WTC buildings collapsed and no residue nuclear radiation at ground zero that would have indicated a nuclear detonation. A nuclear detonation generates temperatures in the millions of degrees and yet, no steel structure recovered show signs of such high temperatures and add to the fact that people are standing within a few hundred feet as the WTC buildings collapse and yet, no one experienced such high temperature burns nor flash blindness or even radiation sickness associated with nuclear detonations. Im still waiting for an answer on why trilithon 55 times higher than background would be found in water samples in building 6, 11 days after 9/11 and after being diluted with fire hosing and rainfall. You have to understand that the 911 nuke story is false and a simple look at clean-up crews at ground zero will tell you there was no nuclear detonation at ground zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted August 12, 2013 #377 Share Posted August 12, 2013 A simple look at the epidemiologic data, 12 years later, shows that the radiation sickness and cancers for those on the pile are very much the same as those resulting from Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Chernobyl. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 12, 2013 #378 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I thought the word was TRITIUM, a radioactive form of hydrogen? Had assumed that anyway? And there will not be any answers to your excellent question Poppet. If any response at all, it will most likely be: "oh no, that's been debunked" or some type of denial of facts. Let's take a look here because too much hype is being made over tritium. Radioactive tritium leaks found at 48 US nuke sites 'You got pipes that have been buried underground for 30 or 40 years, and they've never been inspected,' whistleblower says Tritium has leaked from 48 of 65 nuclear sites in the US. In one case it was detected in groundwater at levels exceeding the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) drinking water standards by up to 375 times At three sites — two in Illinois and one in Minnesota — leaks have contaminated drinking wells of nearby homes, the records show, but not at levels violating the drinking water standard. At a fourth site, in New Jersey, tritium has leaked into an aquifer and a discharge canal feeding picturesque Barnegat Bay off the Atlantic Ocean. Radium In research, radium is used as a source of neutrons in laboratories, and it is also researched by scientists who are interested in learning more about it and its isotopes. Radium is also sometimes used in treatment for cancers and in medical imaging. Some antiques like watches with luminescent dials contain radium, a testimony to the element's once widespread commercial use. ------------------------------------------------------------ Tritiated water: Traces only, provides further strong evidence AGAINST mini-nuke hypothesis “Traces of tritiated water (HTO) were detected at the World Trade Center (WTC) ground zero after the 9/11/01 terrorist attack. A water sample from the WTC sewer, collected on 9/13/01, contained (0.164±0.074) nCi/L of HTO. A split water sample, collected on 9/21/01 from the basement of WTC Building 6, contained 3.53±0.17 and 2.83±0.15 nCi/L, respectively. These results are well below the levels of concern to human exposure… http://www.llnl.gov/.../pdf/241096.pdf Now, what was that you were saying?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 12, 2013 #379 Share Posted August 12, 2013 A simple look at the epidemiologic data, 12 years later, shows that the radiation sickness and cancers for those on the pile are very much the same as those resulting from Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Chernobyl. False! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet Posted August 12, 2013 Author #380 Share Posted August 12, 2013 sky 1 TU (Tritium unit)= 3.231 pCi/L (trillionths per liter) or 0.003231 nCi/L (billionths per liter) basement of WTC Building 6, contained 3.53±0.17 and 2.83±0.15 nCi/L ( 3,530.0 pCi/L +/- 170 pCi/L and 2,830 pCi/L +/- 150 pCi/L), Pico to Nano converter http://www.unitconversion.org/prefixes/picos-to-nanos-conversion.html In 2001 normal background levels of Tritium are supposedly around 20 TUs (prior to nuclear testing in the 60′s, normal background tritium water levels were 5 to 10 TUs • <0.8 TU indicates submodern water (prior to 1950s) • 0.8 to 4 TU indicates a mix of submodern and modern water • 5 to 15 TU indicates modern water (<5 to 10 years) • 15 to 30 TU indicates some bomb tritium so lets be generous and say 20 TU for background level at ground zero now let’s calculate the proven referenced facts. Tritium level confirmed in the DOE report of traces of tritium = 3,530 pCi/L +/- 170 pCi/L, 3,530 pCi/L (the referenced lab value) divided by the backgroud level of 20TUs (20 X 3.231 p (1 TU = 3.21 pCi/L) = 64.62 pCi/L as the high normal background/standard level. 3,530 divided by 64.62 pCi/L = 54.63 TIMES THE NORMAL BACKGROUND LEVEL. 3,530 pCi/L divided by 3.231 pCi/L (1 TU) = 1,092.54 TUs is that simple enough for you , how do you reconcile 1,092.54 TUs as only a trace element, bearing in mind the millions of litres of rain water and fire hosing that was diluting the sample and also bearing in mind the amount dispersed in the atmosphere after the explosion it would seem that Dr Jones and associates have got there pio and nano's a little muddled witch makes a big difference to the data i suggest you read a little before you post such nonsense in future as this has all been linked to before . The 911 WTC “Traces of Tritium” Lie Is Obstruction of Justice by Accessories to Murder http://edwardmd.wordpress.com/2009/03/08/the-911-wtc-traces-of-tritium-lie-is-obstruction-of-justice-by-accessories-to-murder/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 13, 2013 #381 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) sky 1 TU (Tritium unit)= 3.231 pCi/L (trillionths per liter) or 0.003231 nCi/L (billionths per liter) basement of WTC Building 6, contained 3.53±0.17 and 2.83±0.15 nCi/L ( 3,530.0 pCi/L +/- 170 pCi/L and 2,830 pCi/L +/- 150 pCi/L), Pico to Nano converter http://www.unitconve...conversion.html In 2001 normal background levels of Tritium are supposedly around 20 TUs (prior to nuclear testing in the 60′s, normal background tritium water levels were 5 to 10 TUs • <0.8 TU indicates submodern water (prior to 1950s) • 0.8 to 4 TU indicates a mix of submodern and modern water • 5 to 15 TU indicates modern water (<5 to 10 years) • 15 to 30 TU indicates some bomb tritium so lets be generous and say 20 TU for background level at ground zero now let’s calculate the proven referenced facts. Tritium level confirmed in the DOE report of traces of tritium = 3,530 pCi/L +/- 170 pCi/L, 3,530 pCi/L (the referenced lab value) divided by the backgroud level of 20TUs (20 X 3.231 p (1 TU = 3.21 pCi/L) = 64.62 pCi/L as the high normal background/standard level. 3,530 divided by 64.62 pCi/L = 54.63 TIMES THE NORMAL BACKGROUND LEVEL. 3,530 pCi/L divided by 3.231 pCi/L (1 TU) = 1,092.54 TUs is that simple enough for you , how do you reconcile 1,092.54 TUs as only a trace element, bearing in mind the millions of litres of rain water and fire hosing that was diluting the sample and also bearing in mind the amount dispersed in the atmosphere after the explosion it would seem that Dr Jones and associates have got there pio and nano's a little muddled witch makes a big difference to the data i suggest you read a little before you post such nonsense in future as this has all been linked to before . The 911 WTC “Traces of Tritium” Lie Is Obstruction of Justice by Accessories to Murder http://edwardmd.word...ries-to-murder/ To put it simply, there was nothing at ground zero that indicated the use of nukes because the nuke story was a hoax. As mentioned before, nukes generate blinding detonation flashes, yet there are no such flashes in the videos and nukes generate trememdous shock waves and yet, no nuclear shock wave was generated nor felt. Nukes generate temperatures of millions of degrees and yet, there was no such evidence whatsoever at ground zero that temperatures reached anywhere near millions of degrees F. In addition, people are seen standing within a few hundred feet of the WTC buildings as they collapse and they were not exposed to extremed temperatures in the millions of degrees F., temperatures which are also generated within the interior of the sun and yet we are being led to believe that nukes was used to demolish the WTC buildings. Once again, there was no radioactive contamination at ground zero that would have indicated a radioactive hazard. This is how cleanup operations involving nuclear material are conducted. Technicians at the Three Mile Island plant enter the outer airlock door leading into the containment building housing of the disabled nuclear reactor in Harrisburg, Pa., on Feb. 11, http://www.npr.org/2...eads-doubt-fear Now, let's take a look at cleanup operations at ground zero. As you can see in the following photos, no one is dressed to handle radioactive materials unlike the above photo. To sum it up, no evidence of any kind of a nuclear detonation at ground zero because that story is false. You would be better off trying to convince people that a meteor knocked down the WTC buildings. Edited August 13, 2013 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted August 13, 2013 #382 Share Posted August 13, 2013 The government ignoring warnings is nothing new, especially with tons of intelligence information flowing in; some false, some true, but there will be those who will ignore certain warnings regardless. Our intelligence services continued to ignore warning in the years after the 911 attacks and one case in Afghanistan, it cost the CIA top-level agents including Jennifer Matthews. I might add that Hitler continued to ignore warnings and that assisted the allies during the war. Hitler... . okay.. is beginning to make sense now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted August 13, 2013 #383 Share Posted August 13, 2013 A simple look at the epidemiologic data, 12 years later, shows that the radiation sickness and cancers for those on the pile are very much the same as those resulting from Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Chernobyl. is this true, and if so, is there any other way it might be accounted for? Surely something like that must raise some eyebrows if it was true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 13, 2013 #384 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hitler... . okay.. is beginning to make sense now In other words, intelligence and operational blunders are not unique nor limited to the United States of America only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaptorBites Posted August 13, 2013 #385 Share Posted August 13, 2013 is this true, and if so, is there any other way it might be accounted for? Surely something like that must raise some eyebrows if it was true. Of course not. That claim another classic example of selective ignorance. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/234030.php As far as the general population of NYC, the FDNY, NYPD, and volunteer/professional rescue workers have a lower death rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted August 14, 2013 #386 Share Posted August 14, 2013 is this true, and if so, is there any other way it might be accounted for? Surely something like that must raise some eyebrows if it was true. Exactly my point. If the data cited by Prager in his book is true and accurate, anybody with a scintilla of intellectual honesty must admit that something MOST unusual happened there that day, and of course in the months afterwards, with all those people being unprotected and exposed. If true, so it is that 10 years of hindsight can provide valuable information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 14, 2013 #387 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Exactly my point. If the data cited by Prager in his book is true and accurate, anybody with a scintilla of intellectual honesty must admit that something MOST unusual happened there that day, and of course in the months afterwards, with all those people being unprotected and exposed. If true, so it is that 10 years of hindsight can provide valuable information. Considering that hazardous cancer-causing materials have been identified at ground zero, and nothing to do with mini-nukes, it shouldn't have been of no mystery as to the cause of their illnesses. Materials in the 9/11 cloud, and potential for creating Ground Zero illnesses The dust from the collapsed towers was "wildly toxic", according to air pollution expert and University of California Davis Professor Emeritus Thomas Cahill. What Was Found in the Dust http://www.nytimes.c...TH_GRAPHIC.html The thousands of tons of toxic debris resulting from the collapse of the Twin Towers consisted of more than 2,500 contaminants, more specifically: 50% non-fibrous material and construction debris; 40% glass and other fibers; 9.2% cellulose; and 0.8% of the extremely toxic carcinogen asbestos, as well as detectable amounts of lead, and mercury. There were also unprecedented levels of dioxins and PAHs from the fires which burned for three months. Many of the dispersed substances (asbestos, crystalline silica, lead, cadmium, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons) are carcinogenic; other substances can trigger kidney, heart, liver and nervous system deterioration. This was well known by the EPA at the time of collapse. A Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) funded case report performed by Mt Sinai observed carbon nanotubes in dust samples and in the lungs of several 9/11 responders. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2854726/ One million tons of dust An estimated 1 million tons of dust rained down on the city and the 16-acre disaster zone, showering the area with asbestos, Freon, carcinogens, concrete, glass fibers, lead and other hazards. Workers inhaled caustic fine cement dust and a mixture of sulfuric acid, a byproduct of combustion, which defeated the lungs' defense system and allowed particles to become deeply embedded, Cahill says. David Worby, a lawyer in White Plains, N.Y., represents about 8,000 clients with health problems who are suing supervisors, the EPA, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, contractors and others involved in the cleanup. He says more than 50 families have lost loved ones due to their Twin Towers work. No trial dates have been set. "There are thousands of people who will get cancer and will die from this, and the government isn't doing anything," Worby says. "Every week I get one or two calls from a cop saying, 'What do I do for my wife and kids? I've just been diagnosed with leukemia or sarcoidosis (an inflammation that creates scar tissue, often in the lungs)." Ground zero workers and cancer On November 28, 2006, the Village Voice reported that several dozen recovery personnel have developed cancer – as opposed to having contracted respiratory ailments, and that doctors have argued that some of these cancers developed as a result of the exposure to toxins at the Ground Zero site: "To date, 75 recovery workers at ground zero have been diagnosed with blood cell cancers that a half-dozen top doctors and epidemiologists have confirmed as having been likely caused by that exposure." The basis for the suits stems from the plaintiffs' argument that the government—in a desperate attempt to revive downtown in the wake of the catastrophic events on 9-11—failed to protect workers from cancer-causing benzene, dioxin, and other hazardous chemicals that permeated the air for months. Officials made these failures worse by falsely reassuring New Yorkers that they faced no long-term dangers from exposure to the air lingering over ground zero. http://www.villagevo.../death-by-dust/ Edited August 14, 2013 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted August 14, 2013 #388 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) http://www.dailymail...ge-glacier.html hello Colonel yes i did get abit muddled there lol ...............or was ground zero an ancient site. Pictured: The 40ft 'pothole' that shows Ground Zero was once the site of an Ice Age glacier Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2bmu0Oqd9 I am very interested to read about a huge hole beneath the fallen WTC towers.... It would fit in very nicely with a nuclear prepared controlled demolition as described by Dimitri Khalezov.... [media=] [/media]I don't believe that 9/11 was an 'Inside Job'...but I do think the towers (and Building 7?) were brought down by controlled demolition... For a long time I have considered Directed Energy Weapons to be a possible way it happened... But the 'nuclear' theory is gaining weight in my mind. When WTCs 1 + 2 were designed...they had to incorporate a plan so that the buildings could be demolished....(in an emergency situation?) I think that when a large section of the South Tower looked in imminent danger of toppling....the order may have been given... To limit the damage to the surrounding area. Once the ground beneath was weakened...the North Tower could have also been ordered to be demolished in the same way. And eventually later in the day....the same with Building 7....*** (see bottom of post) In the link it says... http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2bmu0Oqd9 You want to make sure you're not perching something on a ledge," said Anthony Pontecorvosupervising structural engineer at Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers, which is working on the project Well...one would have thought that when the WTC towers were built the same would apply...and geological studies of the ground beneath would have been essential to get planning permission. Any existing cavities would have been 'spotted'...IF they had been there... Getting planning permission would also hinge on having the demolition plan... Yes...that big hole is most interesting. And of course, as there is a cover up (IMO)....the hole would eventually be an issue.. When it was uncovered... But that issue, it seems was addressed when the hole was discovered back in 2008 (at least that is the date the article was written) edit to say...although Dimitri Khalezov says somewhere (just remembered)...that under Building 7 may have been where the controlled nuclear demolition centre of operations were....and when it was decided to keep the way the WTCs were demolished VERY secret and highly classified....that one had to go as well... . Edited August 14, 2013 by bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted August 14, 2013 #389 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I have often thought that it would be sensible for gigantic buildings like these to be designed so that when the time came to Demolish them, they'd come down more or less in their own footprint, so I've wondered if it might not have incorporated some means to allow controlled demolition,which might account for the way that many say that it looked very much as if it was demolioshed. Not that it was all a plot by the Government for evil ends, or that there were no terrorists and no planes and so on, but that someone might have given the word for it to be brought down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted August 14, 2013 #390 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I have often thought that it would be sensible for gigantic buildings like these to be designed so that when the time came to Demolish them, they'd come down more or less in their own footprint, so I've wondered if it might not have incorporated some means to allow controlled demolition,which might account for the way that many say that it looked very much as if it was demolioshed. Not that it was all a plot by the Government for evil ends, or that there were no terrorists and no planes and so on, but that someone might have given the word for it to be brought down. indeed.... Maybe if the second plane that hit the South Tower hadn't severely damaged the corner bit..... the Towers would still be there now. And could have been repaired??? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet Posted August 14, 2013 Author #391 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Sky You are again incorrect when you say no one suffered unusual burns, this quote is from a fireman who was there on the day. Erik Lawyer Founding Member of firefighters for truth. August 23, 2008 …I applied the “common sense” test that my Grandfather always said wasn’t so common. Why would a government so aggressively suppress truth and blatantly destroy evidence if there was nothing to hide? Why has every testimony from sworn government and military officials that points to “prior knowledge” been stricken from the 9/11 Commission Report? How did paper business cards, cloth bandanas, and plastic ID’s that implicate the terrorists survive so neatly through jet fuelled fireballs hot enough to destroy titanium and steel? I’ve seen bodies burned beyond recognition, yet I have never found one that was wearing unburned clothing. These questions alone are enough to make me risk everything for a real investigation and accounting. Sadly, there are many more questions! Raptor Bites Running off to google and posting the first link that refutes the claim of unusual cancers at ground zero is bad research, if you had read the report that your site had cherry picked quotes from, then you wouldn’t have posted such rubbish, and when you do read the report look how they raise the expected levels of cancer…………..they really expected to see that many cancers?! that’s how you fudge the results, but I believe that report was in 2008 and not a high percentage of first responders took part, the last I have heard on the matter is last year when the fire chief was seething at the government dragging its heels on looking after the first responders (read the first comment in the link you provided )and they were conducting their own investigation into which areas their work colleagues/friends were working at in the “pile” and is there any correlation ……………….and that’s exactly what I would do. Bee Hi I believe the pit was found at the start not in 2008 that’s a silly piece from a newspaper trying to explain away vitrified rock which ive seen in some old Scottish forts as 20,000 thousand year old glazier damage…………the sheer comedy of it ,it’s better explained with images in a post early on in this thread when a poster explained that it was just a slurry pit.vitrified rock is rock that has been subjected to extremely hot temperatures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 14, 2013 #392 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Sky You are again incorrect when you say no one suffered unusual burns, this quote is from a fireman who was there on the day. Anyone that close to a nuclear detonation would have been vaporized and people further away would have been blinded by a nuclear flash miles away. In the videos, there are no nuclear detonation flashes. Flash blindness is caused by the initial brilliant flash of light produced by the nuclear detonation. More light energy is received on the retina than can be tolerated, but less than is required for irreversible injury. The retina is particularly susceptible to visible and short wavelength infrared light, since this part of the electromagnetic spectrum is focused by the lens on the retina. The result is bleaching of the visual pigments and temporary blindness for up to 40 minutes. Now, let's take a look at this video as WTC2 collapses. Now, look at what a nuclear detonation looks like. As you can see, there was no nuclear flash as WTC2 collapsed. In addition, there was no mushroom cloud that reached thousands of feet into the sky. Now, some surprising facts about nuclear detonations. Electromagnetic pulse Nuclear electromagnetic pulse and Geomagnetically induced current Gamma rays from a nuclear explosion produce high energy electrons through Compton scattering. For high altitude nuclear explosions, these electrons are captured in the Earth's magnetic field at altitudes between twenty and forty kilometers where they interact with the Earth's magnetic field to produce a coherent Nuclear electromagnetic pulse (NEMP) which lasts about one millisecond. Secondary effects may last for more than a second. The pulse is powerful enough to cause moderately long metal objects (such as cables) to act as antennas and generate high voltages due to interactions with the electromagnetic pulse. These voltages can destroy unshielded electronics. There are no known biological effects of EMP. The ionized air also disrupts radio traffic that would normally bounce off the ionosphere. Electronics can be shielded by wrapping them completely in conductive material such as aluminum foil; however, the effectiveness of the shielding may be less than perfect. Proper shielding is a complex subject due to the large number of variables involved. Semiconductors, especially integrated circuits, are extremely susceptible to the effects of EMP due to the close proximity of the PN junctions, but this is not the case with thermionic tubes (or valves) which are relatively immune to EMP. AFaraday cage doesn't offer protection from the effects of EMP unless the mesh is designed to have holes no bigger than the smallest wavelength emitted from a nuclear explosion. Large nuclear weapons detonated at high-altitudes also cause geomagnetically induced current in very long electrical conductors. The mechanism by which these geomagnetically induced currents are generated is entirely different from the gamma ray induced pulse produced by Compton electrons. Ionizing radiation About 5% of the energy released in a nuclear air burst is in the form of ionizing radiation: neutrons, gamma rays, alpha particles and electrons moving at speeds up to the speed of light. Gamma rays are high energy electromagnetic radiation; the others are particles that move slower than light. The neutrons result almost exclusively from the fission and fusion reactions, while the initial gamma radiation includes that arising from these reactions as well as that resulting from the decay of short-lived fission products. The intensity of initial nuclear radiation decreases rapidly with distance from the point of burst because the radiation spreads over a larger area as it travels away from the explosion. It is also reduced by atmospheric absorption and scattering. The character of the radiation received at a given location also varies with distance from the explosion. Near the point of the explosion, the neutron intensity is greater than the gamma intensity, but with increasing distance the neutron-gamma ratio decreases. Ultimately, the neutron component of initial radiation becomes negligible in comparison with the gamma component. The range for significant levels of initial radiation does not increase markedly with weapon yield and, as a result, the initial radiation becomes less of a hazard with increasing yield. With larger weapons, above 50 kt (200 TJ), blast and thermal effects are so much greater in importance that prompt radiation effects can be ignored. The neutron radiation serves to transmute the surrounding matter, often rendering it radioactive. When added to the dust of radioactive material released by the bomb itself, a large amount of radioactive material is released into the environment. This form of radioactive contamination is known as nuclear fallout and poses the primary risk of exposure to ionizing radiation for a large nuclear weapon. Earthquake The pressure wave from an underground explosion will propagate through the ground and cause a minor earthquake. Theory suggests that a nuclear explosion could trigger fault rupture and cause a major quake at distances within a few tens of kilometers from the shot point. A TEN-KILOTON BOMB DETONATED AT GROUND LEVEL If a bomb in the 10- to 20-kiloton range (the likeliest terrorist bomb) were to be exploded near ground level or in a ship in the harbour, the areas of blast, heat, and burn damage would be much smaller, perhaps reaching out to only one-tenth of the distances estimated for the one-megaton air-burst. The numbers of immediately killed and severely injured people would be counted in thousands, not hundreds of thousands. Exploded on land, the bomb would vaporize all people and buildings in the immediate vicinity, and make a crater that might be as much as one hundred metres in diameter. If in the harbour, there would be a crater in the harbour floor and a tidal wave. The outstanding feature would be a radioactive downpour because much of the water in the harbour would be made radioactive and thrown high into the air as fine and coarse spray. The explosion at ground level of this type of bomb would probably not cause a firestorm, so rescue operations for the injured might have some degree of success. In either case, radioactive fallout would be serious, and might make the city, and an area of countryside stretching tens of kilometres downwind, uninhabitable for weeks or years. There would be a number of deaths from radiation sickness, for which there is really no effective medical treatment. The total amount of radioactivity might be comparable with the Chernobyl disaster, more or less depending on many circumstances. http://www.3ammagazi...mb_effects.html Nothing at ground zero that indicated the detonation of nuclear weapons. …I applied the “common sense” test that my Grandfather always said wasn’t so common. Why would a government so aggressively suppress truth and blatantly destroy evidence if there was nothing to hide? The government destroyed what evidence? The evidence is all over videos, photos, data, and seismic charts that are still available today. Why has every testimony from sworn government and military officials that points to “prior knowledge” been stricken from the 9/11 Commission Report? With intelligence warnings flooding from around that world that Muslim terrorist would used alrliners as weapons to attack the United States, how could anyone in government not know that something was coming? WARNINGS THAT THE DANGER WOULD COME FROM THE AIR BRITAIN, WARNING #1: Al-Qaeda is planning to use aircraft in "unconventional ways", "possibly as flying bombs" the British intelligence agency, gives a secret report to liaison staff at the US embassy in London. The reports states that al-Qaeda has plans to use "commercial aircraft" in "unconventional ways", "possibly as flying bombs." [sunday Times, 6/9/02] BRITAIN, WARNING #3: An Al-Qaeda attack will involve multiple hijackings Early August 2001 ©: Britain gives the US another warning about an al-Qaeda attack. The previous British warning (see July 16, 2001) was vague as to method, but this warning specifies multiple airplane hijackings. This warning is included in Bush's briefing on August 6. [sunday Herald, 5/19/02] CAYMAN ISLANDS, WARNING #2: Three al-Qaeda agents are part of a plot "organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines" August 29, 2001: Three men from either Pakistan or Afghanistan living in the Cayman Islands are briefly arrested in June 2001 for discussing hijacking attacks in New York City (see June 4, 2001). On this day, a Cayman Islands radio station receives an unsigned letter claiming these same three men are agents of bin Laden. The anonymous author warns that they "are organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines." The letter is forwarded to a Cayman government official but no action is taken until after 9/11 and it isn't known when the US is informed. Many criminals and/or businesses use the Cayman Islands as a safe, no tax, no questions asked haven to keep their money. The author of the letter meets with the FBI shortly after 9/11, and claims his information was a "premonition of sorts." The three men are later arrested. Its unclear what has happened to them since their arrest. [Miami Herald, 9/20/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01, MSNBC, 9/23/01] FTW EGYPT, WARNING #1: An undercover agent learns 20 al-Qaeda agents are in the US, four have received flight training Late July 2001 (D): CBS later has a brief mention in a long story on another topic: "Just days after Atta return to the US from Spain, Egyptian intelligence in Cairo says it received a report from one of its operatives in Afghanistan that 20 al-Qaeda members had slipped into the US and four of them had received flight training on Cessnas. To the Egyptians, pilots of small planes didn't sound terribly alarming, but they [pass] on the message to the CIA anyway, fully expecting Washington to request information. The request never [comes]." [CBS, 10/9/02] This appears to be one of several accurate Egyptian warnings based on informants (see June 13, 2001 and August 30, 2001). Could Egypt have known the names of some or all of the hijackers? Given FBI agent Ken Williams' memo about flight schools a short time before (see July 10, 2001), shouldn't the US have investigated this closely instead of completely ignoring it? GERMANY: Terrorists will use airplanes as weapons to attack "American and Israeli symbols" June 2001: German intelligence warns the CIA, Britain's MI6, and Israel's Mossad that Middle Eastern terrorists are planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack "American and Israeli symbols, which stand out." A later article quotes unnamed German intelligence sources who state the information was coming from Echelon surveillance technology, and that British intelligence had access to the same warnings. However, there were other informational sources, including specific information and hints given to, but not reported by, Western and Near Eastern news media six months before 9/11. [Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 9/11/01, Washington Post, 9/14/01, Fox News, 5/17/02] FTW ITALY: Muslims warn of an attack on the US and Britain using hijacked airplanes as weapons September 7, 2001: Father Jean-Marie Benjamin is told at a wedding in Todi, Italy of a plot to attack the US and Britain using hijacked airplanes as weapons. He isn't told time or place specifics. He immediately passes what he knows to a judge and several politicians. He states: "Although I am friendly with many Muslims, I wondered why they were telling me, specifically. I felt it my duty to inform the Italian government." Benjamin has been called "one of the West's most knowledgeable experts on the Muslim world." Two days after 9/11, he meets with the Italian Foreign Minister on this topic. He says he learned the attack on Britain failed at the last minute. [Zenit, 9/16/01] He has not revealed who told him this information, but could it have been a member of the al-Qaeda cell in Milan (see August 12, 2000 and January 24, 2001), which appears to have helped with the 9/11 attacks? JORDAN: A major attack using aircraft is planned inside the US Late summer 2001: Jordanian intelligence (the GID) makes a communications intercept deemed so important that King Abdullah's men relay it to Washington, probably through the CIA station in Amman. To make doubly sure the message gets through it is passed through an Arab intermediary to a German intelligence agent. The message states that a major attack, code named The Big Wedding, is planned inside the US and that aircraft will be used. "When it became clear that the information was embarrassing to Bush Administration officials and congressmen who at first denied that there had been any such warnings before September 11, senior Jordanian officials backed away from their earlier confirmations." Christian Science Monitor calls the story "confidently authenticated" even though Jordan has backed away from it. [international Herald Tribune, 5/21/02, Christian Science Monitor, 5/23/02] FTW RUSSIA: Russian intelligence clearly warns the US several times that 25 or so terrorists, including suicide pilots, will attack the US, targeting "important buildings like the Pentagon" August 2001 (D): Russian President Putin warns the US that suicide pilots are training for attacks on US targets. [Fox News, 5/17/02] The head of Russian intelligence also later states, "We had clearly warned them" on several occasions, but they "did not pay the necessary attention." [Agence France-Presse, 9/16/01] A Russian newspaper on September 12, 2001 claims that "Russian Intelligence agents know the organizers and executors of these terrorist attacks. More than that, Moscow warned Washington about preparation to these actions a couple of weeks before they happened." Interestingly, the article claims that at least two of the terrorists were Muslim radicals from Uzbekistan. [izvestia, 9/12/01, (the story currently on the Izvestia web site has been edited to delete a key paragraph, the link is to a translation of the original article from From the Wilderness)] FTW OTHER WARNINGS AFGHANISTAN: Al-Qaeda is planning an imminent "huge attack" inside the US that will kill thousands ARGENTINA: A major terrorist attack is planned against either the US, Argentina, or France Late July 2001 ©: Argentina's Jewish community receives warnings of a major terrorist attack against either the United States, Argentina or France from "a foreign intelligence source." The warning was then relayed to the Argentine security authorities. It was agreed to keep the warning secret in order to avoid panic while reinforcing security at Jewish sites in the country. Says a Jewish leader, "It was a concrete warning that an attack of major proportion would take place, and it came from a reliable intelligence source. And I understand the Americans were told about it." Argentina has a large Jewish community that has been bombed in the past, and has been an area of al-Qaeda activity. [Forward, 5/31/02] BRITAIN, WARNING #2: Al-Qaeda is the "final stages" of a very serious attack on a Western country July 16, 2001: British spy agencies send a report to British Prime Minister Tony Blair and other top officials warning that al-Qaeda is in "the final stages" of preparing a terrorist attack in the West. The prediction is "based on intelligence gleaned not just from MI6 and GCHQ but also from US agencies, including the CIA and the National Security Agency," which cooperate with the British. "The contents of the July 16 warning would have been passed to the Americans, Whitehall sources confirmed." The report states there is "an acute awareness" that the attack is "a very serious threat." [London Times, 6/14/02] This information could be from or in addition to a warning based on surveillance of al-Qaeda prisoner Khalid al-Fawwaz (see August 21, 2001). [Fox News, 5/17/02] CAYMAN ISLANDS, WARNING #1: June 4, 2001: At some point in 2000, three men claiming to be Afghans but using Pakistani passports enter the Cayman Islands, possibly illegally. [Miami Herald, 9/20/01] In late 2000, Cayman and British investigators begin a yearlong probe of these men which lasts until 9/11. [Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01] They are overheard discussing hijacking attacks in New York City. On this day, they are taken into custody, questioned and released some time later. This information is forwarded to US intelligence. [Fox News, 5/17/02] In late August, a letter to a Cayman radio station will allege these same men are agents of bin Laden "organizing a major terrorist act against the US via an airline or airlines" (see August 29, 2001). EGYPT, WARNING #2: Al-Qaeda is in the advanced stages of a "significant operation" probably within the US August 30-September 4, 2001: According to Egyptian President Hasni Mubarak, Egyptian intelligence warns American officials that bin Laden's network is in the advanced stages of executing a significant operation against an American target, probably within the US. [AP, 12/7/01, New York Times, 6/4/02] He says he learned this information from an agent working inside al-Qaeda. US officials deny receiving any such warning from Egypt. [ABC News, 6/4/02] FRANCE: An echo of Israel's warning of a major assault on the US Late August 2001 (D): French intelligence gives a general terrorist warning to the US; apparently its contents echo an Israeli warning from earlier in the month (see Mid-August 2001). [Fox News, 5/17/02] INDIA: Missed opportunity with White House attack warning India gives the US general intelligence on possible terror attacks; details are not known. US government officials later confirm that Indian intelligence had information "that two Islamist radicals with ties to Osama bin Laden were discussing an attack on the White House," but apparently this particular information is not given to the US until two days after 9/11. [Fox News, 5/17/02] ISRAEL, WARNING #1: 50 to 200 al-Qaeda terrorists are inside the US and planning an imminent "major assault on the US" aimed at a "large scale target" August 8-15, 2001: At some point between these dates, Israel warns the US that an al-Qaeda attack is imminent. [Fox News, 5/17/02] Two high ranking agents from the Mossad come to Washington and warn the FBI and CIA that from 50 to 200 terrorists have slipped into the US and are planning "a major assault on the United States." They say indications point to a "large scale target", and that Americans would be "very vulnerable." They add there could be Iraqi connections to the al-Qaeda attack. [Telegraph, 9/16/01, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01, Ottawa Citizen, 9/17/01] The Los Angeles Times later retracts the story after a CIA spokesman says, "There was no such warning. Allegations that there was are complete and utter nonsense." [Los Angeles Times, 9/21/01] In light of later revelations of a Mossad spy ring trailing numerous Muslim terrorists in the US, it is easy to see that Mossad would have known this info. Could this be later disinformation by the Mossad to spin the spy ring story and blame Iraq for 9/11, or it is another smoking gun showing extensive US foreknowledge? ISRAEL, WARNING #2: Israel gives the US a list of 19 terrorists inside the US planning an imminent attack, the list names at least four of the hijackers, including Mohamed Atta August 23, 2001: According to German newspapers, the Mossad gives the CIA a list of terrorists living in the US and say that they appear to be planning to carry out an attack in the near future. It is unknown if these are the 19 9/11 hijackers or if the number is a coincidence. However, four names on the list are known and are names of the 9/11 hijackers: Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Marwan Alshehhi, and Mohamed Atta. [Die Zeit, 10/1/02, Der Spiegel, 10/1/02, BBC, 10/2/02, Haaretz, 10/3/02] The Mossad appears to have learned about this through its "art student" spy ring (see for instance, March 5, 2002). Yet apparently this warning and list are not treated as particularly urgent by the CIA and also not passed on to the FBI. It's not clear if this warning influenced the adding of Alhazmi and Almihdhar to a terrorism watch list on this same day, and if so, why only those two. [Der Spiegel, 10/1/02] Israel has denied that there were any Mossad agents in the US. [Haaretz, 10/3/02] The US has denied knowing about Atta before 9/11, despite other media reports to the contrary (see January-May 2000). MOROCCO: Al-Qaeda is planning large scale operations in New York City in the fall of 2001, possibly targeting the World Trade Center August 2001 ©: The French magazine Maximale and the Moroccan newspaper al-Ittihad al-Ichtiraki later simultaneously report that a Moroccan agent named Hassan Dabou had penetrated al-Qaeda to the point of getting close to bin Laden by this time. Dabou claims he learns that bin Laden is "very disappointed" that the 1993 bombing had not toppled the WTC, and plans "large scale operations in New York in the summer or fall of 2001." Dabou is called to the US to report this information directly, and in so doing blows his cover, losing his ability to gather more intelligence. The International Herald Tribune later calls the story "not proved beyond a doubt" but intriguing, and asks the CIA to confirm or deny, which it has not done. [Agence France Presse, 11/22/01, International Herald Tribune, 5/21/02, London Times, 6/12/02] FTW In 1995, the Philippine government had warned the United States had plans to use American irliners as weapons to kill thousands of people. In 1998, Osama bin Laden declared war on the United States and on 9/11/2001, the rest became history. . How did paper business cards, cloth bandanas, and plastic ID’s that implicate the terrorists survive so neatly through jet fuelled fireballs hot enough to destroy titanium and steel? In aircraft crashes, personal papers and yes, even passports have survived air disasters. This passport was found in the wreckage of an Air India Express flight that killed 158 people. Now, take a look here. Oxford graduate solicitor, 27, among seven British Everest trekkers killed in Kathmandu plane fireball horror Belongings: A forensic officer with a blood stained guide book and right, a Nepalese fireman and rescue workers find a British passport and money http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz2QVa2LtEj And, let's not forget these recovered items. Waleed Iskandar's bank card, Flight 11 Lisa Anne Frost's mileage card, Flight 175 CeeCee Lyles effects, Flight 93 I have to reiterate that you are allowing yourself to be duped on a regular basis because you are listening to the wrong people. I’ve seen bodies burned beyond recognition, yet I have never found one that was wearing unburned clothing. These questions alone are enough to make me risk everything for a real investigation and accounting. Sadly, there are many more questions! There have been a number of air disasters where people survived unburned. Edited August 14, 2013 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 14, 2013 #393 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I have often thought that it would be sensible for gigantic buildings like these to be designed so that when the time came to Demolish them, they'd come down more or less in their own footprint, so I've wondered if it might not have incorporated some means to allow controlled demolition,which might account for the way that many say that it looked very much as if it was demolioshed. Not that it was all a plot by the Government for evil ends, or that there were no terrorists and no planes and so on, but that someone might have given the word for it to be brought down. You might to take a look here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_uBx2w0Sso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted August 14, 2013 #394 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Keep up the Fight Skyeagle ! Its the Facts that Always overcome the Fiction ! These C.T`s are no match for you ! Resistance is Futile ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted August 14, 2013 #395 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Now, let's take a look at this video as WTC2 collapses. Now, look at what a nuclear detonation looks like. As you can see, there was no nuclear flash as WTC2 collapsed. In addition, there was no mushroom cloud that reached thousands of feet into the sky. Now, look at what an underground nuclear detonation looks like.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 14, 2013 #396 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Now, look at what an underground nuclear detonation looks like.... Check out the crater beneath WTC1 after the 1993 bombing. Despite the detonation of a huge bomb, WTC1 remained standing. Now, here is a crater of a nuke. No such crater was found at ground zero. In the following video, notice the bright flash as the nuclear shell detonates at time line 0:48. No such flash was observed at ground zero as the WTC buildings collapsed and anyone near such a blast would have been instantly vaporized. Edited August 14, 2013 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 14, 2013 #397 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Keep up the Fight Skyeagle ! Its the Facts that Always overcome the Fiction ! These C.T`s are no match for you ! Resistance is Futile ! I heard that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 15, 2013 #398 Share Posted August 15, 2013 (edited) Now, look at what an underground nuclear detonation looks like.... Nuclear Weapon Effects Because of the tremendous amounts of energy liberated per unit mass in a nuclear detonation, temperatures of several tens of million degrees centigrade develop in the immediate area of the detonation. This is in marked contrast to the few thousand degrees of a conventional explosion. At these very high temperatures the nonfissioned parts of the nuclear weapon are vaporized. The atoms do not release the energy as kinetic energy but release it in the form of large amounts of electromagnetic radiation. In an atmospheric detonation, this electromagnetic radiation, consisting chiefly of soft x-ray, is absorbed within a few meters of the point of detonation by the surrounding atmosphere, heating it to extremely high temperatures and forming a brilliantly hot sphere of air and gaseous weapon residues, the so-called fireball. Immediately upon formation, the fireball begins to grow rapidly and rise like a hot air balloon. Within a millisecond after detonation, the diameter of the fireball from a 1 megaton (Mt) air burst is 150 m. This increases to a maximum of 2200 m within 10 seconds, at which time the fireball is also rising at the rate of 100 m/sec. The initial rapid expansion of the fireball severely compresses the surrounding atmosphere, producing a powerful blast wave. The energy of a nuclear explosion is transferred to the surrounding medium in three distinct forms: * blast; * thermal radiation; * nuclear radiation. The following photo is of a nuclear blast 900 miles away. The EMP effects from that blast knocked out electricity in Hawaii, which was 887 miles away. In regard to an underground detonation, there was no way to drill such a huge hole deep enough beneath the WTC buildings in order to contain a nuclear blast and not draw a lot of attention. In the following video, there is no nuclear detonation flash observed that is many times brighter than the sun. Edited August 15, 2013 by skyeagle409 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet Posted August 18, 2013 Author #399 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Sky O the absurdity of it all, if you would believe that a passport could fly out of a man’s pocket, escape a 500 mph impact and jet fueled fire ball, flutter about for an hour and then land safely on top of the “pile” to be handed in by a passer-by then good for you, or how about Atta who lost his luggage that day during the transfer from Portland to Boston of all the passengers it just happened to be his bag that didn’t make it onto a plane. Or how about at 5.33am Mohahammed Atta drove his rented car to the airport in Portland were it is alleged that a flight uniform, a Koran and flight manuals in Arabic were found in the car……….now here’s the thing if I might possibly need flight manuals to be able to fly why would I leave them in my car and why would the video of Atta have 2 different time stamps and was actually taken from Portland airport not Boston as we were all told. All of the official evidence that has been presented to the public has been laugh out of the room; it’s a complete fairy story from start to finish………………and you and your Greek chorus have fell for it hook line and sinker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted August 18, 2013 #400 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Sky O the absurdity of it all, if you would believe that a passport could fly out of a man’s pocket, escape a 500 mph impact and jet fueled fire ball, flutter about for an hour and then land safely on top of the “pile” to be handed in by a passer-by then good for you, or how about Atta who lost his luggage that day during the transfer from Portland to Boston of all the passengers it just happened to be his bag that didn’t make it onto a plane. Nothing peculiar about that. In addition, paper items have been known to survive airplane crashes and I have posted photos to prove my point. Or how about at 5.33am Mohahammed Atta drove his rented car to the airport in Portland were it is alleged that a flight uniform, a Koran and flight manuals in Arabic were found in the car……….now here’s the thing if I might possibly need flight manuals to be able to fly why would I leave them in my car... A person who has received flight training doesn't need a flight manual to know how to maneuver an airplane that is already airborne especially if that person has an intention of slamming that aircraft into a building. Did the airline captains and co-pilots of those hijacked aircraft have flight manuals available in the aircraft before they were killed? All of the official evidence that has been presented to the public has been laugh out of the room; it’s a complete fairy story from start to finish……………… Looking at the claims of 911 conspiracist, they have already been laughed out of the room, time and time again. Let me list a few examples of their fairy tales, some of which I have covered already but it seems you have missed them. CLAIM: United 93 landed in Cleveland airport. FACT: 911 conspiracist confused Delta Flt 1989, a B-767, as United 93, which was a B-757. CLAIM: Passengers of United 93 were seen at Cleveland airport was they boarded a bus and wisked away FACT: The passengers that 911 conspiracist claimed were passengers from United 93, were scientist from a KC-135. http://www.911myths...._cleveland.html CLAIM: A pod attached to United 175 carried explosives FACT: 911 conspiracist confused aerodynamic fairings and main landing gear doors, which are standard on all B-767s, as a modified pod. Another confused the paint scheme as an attached pod. CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC." FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fire ground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks." "Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat. CLAIM: No aircraft wreckage was found on the grounds of the Pentagon FACT: B-757 wreckage was recovered inside and outside the Pentagon. ...and you and your Greek chorus have fell for it hook line and sinker. We already know that 911 conspiracist took the bait and ran off with it and amazingly, they keep coming back for more. Were you aware that some of what 911 conspiracist have used in their arguments were planted in order to discredit the 911 Truther movement? The hoaxed video of WTC7 was one prime example and the hoaxed story about mini-nukes and the 911 attacks was another and in that latter case, you took the bait and made a thread out of it. The facts above proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have allowed yourself to become a victim of false and misleading information and outright lies. Apparently, you are unaware that what you have posted is a known hoax. Edited August 18, 2013 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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