Coffey Posted April 10, 2013 #151 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Exactly. Unless you really do believe that they'd both be prosperous, thriving democracies if it wasn't for the nasty US Sanctions? Actually my friends Dad in iran was very well off before the sanctions now he is struggling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted April 10, 2013 #152 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I never once sided with NK.... lol My post was nothing to do with NK, it was proving to you that it's not a conspiracy theory about bankers it's a fact. I disagree completely. Sanctions are a declaration of war. They always have been. they want a one Korea, so do the South. Remmeber they have China as an ally, trading with them and the Russians would make them. But they still throw out propaganda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A rather obscure Bassoon Posted April 10, 2013 #153 Share Posted April 10, 2013 they want a one Korea, so do the South. Remmeber they have China as an ally, trading with them and the Russians would make them. But they still throw out propaganda North Korea has been crippled by sanctions, and I would hardly call them a trading partner with China instead they send all their output from their mines as Barter every day for Oil and goods.They are really in bad shape and it wouldn't take much to bring their house tumbling down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted April 10, 2013 #154 Share Posted April 10, 2013 "They are really in bad shape and it wouldn't take much to bring their house tumbling down." s1 Well, it worked on the Soviet Union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted April 11, 2013 #155 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I never once sided with NK.... lol My post was nothing to do with NK, it was proving to you that it's not a conspiracy theory about bankers it's a fact. You have been doing nothing but blaming the entire crisis in Korea on the US and only on the US. How poor North Korea gets sanctions put on them by the mean old America when all they want to do is turn Seoul into a ocean of fire and kill millions of civilians. Bankers have nothing to do with what's happening right now in Korea. Zero. You're just trying to use them in an effort to blame the US. Sanctions are a declaration of war. They always have been. Times North Korea has declared the ceasefire void: 6 Time the US has declared the ceasefire void: 0 And based on your reasoning, which I do partly agree with, China is declaring war on North Korea as well. They're supporting the US sanctions after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted April 11, 2013 #156 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Well, it worked on the Soviet Union. What worked on the Soviert union was Gorby's refrorms, which, given how effective they were at bringing about the disntegration of the USSR, it could be argued that he was actually the most inept leader a country has ever had, or perhaps that he was a CIA plant, planted to destroy the Evil Empire from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted April 11, 2013 #157 Share Posted April 11, 2013 North Korea has been crippled by sanctions, and I would hardly call them a trading partner with China instead they send all their output from their mines as Barter every day for Oil and goods.They are really in bad shape and it wouldn't take much to bring their house tumbling down. Without sanctions. The North Koreans started the war and with a screw loose family I don' think they will calm down weather there is a USA or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 11, 2013 #158 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I don't see Korea being unified anytime soon, and I think it would be a serious mistake by the West to push it. A regime change in the North is very much needed, but I think unlikely, and if it happens it will either be something internal that we don't see coming or something the Chinese engineer. Most likely this will all pass in a year or so once the North has extracted all the money and other concessions it thinks it can get. Two things really bother me: first, the northerners are getting away with things that would have brought severe sanctions if they were behaving more rationally. This is a clear reward for behaving irrationally. Second, Iran and the serious danger what it is doing presents has faded from view because of all the Korean noise. I would not be the least surprised if this were not part of what the North Koreans are up to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skookum Posted April 11, 2013 #159 Share Posted April 11, 2013 NK embassy in London was cleared out yesterday. To be honest I didn't know they even had one, it was in a residential house in Ealing. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted April 11, 2013 #160 Share Posted April 11, 2013 they want a one Korea, so do the South. Remmeber they have China as an ally, trading with them and the Russians would make them. But they still throw out propaganda Yes the North wants a free from US interference and free from the central banking system the South has. The South wants the opposite. You have been doing nothing but blaming the entire crisis in Korea on the US and only on the US. How poor North Korea gets sanctions put on them by the mean old America when all they want to do is turn Seoul into a ocean of fire and kill millions of civilians. Bankers have nothing to do with what's happening right now in Korea. Zero. You're just trying to use them in an effort to blame the US. Never once blamed it on the US ( I think this is now the 10th time I've had to explain this exact thing) I jsut said they don't help the situation at all. Sanctions and Muscle flexing are obviously going to make the situation worse not better. That is not blaming them for the start of it. I know NK is a problem I'm far from stupid. Funny that, the bankers are mostly British families.... So that doesn't even make sense. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted April 11, 2013 #161 Share Posted April 11, 2013 "What worked on the Soviert union was Gorby's refrorms, which, given how effective they were at bringing about the disntegration of the USSR, it could be argued that he was actually the most inept leader a country has ever had, or perhaps that he was a CIA plant, planted to destroy the Evil Empire from within." CR You didn't read Gorbachev's Perestroika? Russia thrives now, compared to where the Soviet Union was in second half of the 20th Century. Difficult to imagine how Russia would be where it is today without Gorbachev's leadership. "the most inept leader a country has ever had" CR It is very rare, that a nation is fortunate enough to have such a capable, visionary, selfless leader that such nation is notably uplifted by that leadership. We're addressing the order of leaders that have made spectacular constructive improvments, like George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, & Nelson Mandella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted April 11, 2013 #162 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I don't see Korea being unified anytime soon, and I think it would be a serious mistake by the West to push it. A regime change in the North is very much needed, but I think unlikely, and if it happens it will either be something internal that we don't see coming or something the Chinese engineer. Most likely this will all pass in a year or so once the North has extracted all the money and other concessions it thinks it can get. Two things really bother me: first, the northerners are getting away with things that would have brought severe sanctions if they were behaving more rationally. This is a clear reward for behaving irrationally. Second, Iran and the serious danger what it is doing presents has faded from view because of all the Korean noise. I would not be the least surprised if this were not part of what the North Koreans are up to. I don't think the West is pushing for unification at all. We just want North Korea to be less crazy and stop using 1984 as a basis for government policy. Anyway sounds like NK might be calming down a bit. Seems they're still using troops as farmers and construction workers so they don't seem to be gearing up for anything big. Plus they're talking about this big marathon that involves several foreigners so they're not completely shutting the country down. They might fire a rocket into the ocean and then quietly start to try and build up relations again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted April 11, 2013 #163 Share Posted April 11, 2013 You didn't read Gorbachev's Perestroika? Russia thrives now, compared to where the Soviet Union was in second half of the 20th Century. Difficult to imagine how Russia would be where it is today without Gorbachev's leadership. the ultra-ultra-ultra rich oligarchy thrive, you mean. It is very rare, that a nation is fortunate enough to have such a capable, visionary, selfless leader that such nation is notably uplifted by that leadership. by destroying his country and leaving it in the hands of the buffoon Yeltsin? Some legacy there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted April 11, 2013 #164 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Anyway sounds like NK might be calming down a bit. Seems they're still using troops as farmers and construction workers so they don't seem to be gearing up for anything big. Plus they're talking about this big marathon that involves several foreigners so they're not completely shutting the country down. They might fire a rocket into the ocean and then quietly start to try and build up relations again. When Seoul, which I can never spell, had the Olympics in whenever it was, '88, did NK participate then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 11, 2013 #165 Share Posted April 11, 2013 All these arm-chair pundits declaring this world leader inept and that one a buffoon and so on get me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted April 11, 2013 #166 Share Posted April 11, 2013 When Seoul, which I can never spell, had the Olympics in whenever it was, '88, did NK participate then? No and few others too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted April 11, 2013 #167 Share Posted April 11, 2013 All these arm-chair pundits declaring this world leader inept and that one a buffoon and so on get me. Why? isn't it a reasonble rule of thumb that at least 70% are, all through history? Surely you wouldn't disagree with that assessment about Yeltsin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted April 11, 2013 #168 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I would disagree with any assertion about any world leader made by anyone who has not studied their history and biography in detail, and I would further disagree with any one-word description of anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted April 11, 2013 #169 Share Posted April 11, 2013 "I would further disagree with any one-word description of anyone." FM Bush: twit. "One day I spent a weekend with the great Billy Graham." U.S. President Bush (the younger)"It would be a mistake for the United States Senate to allow any kind of human cloning to come out of that chamber."—Washington, D.C., April 10, 2002 "For a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times."—Tokyo, Japan, Feb. 18, 2002 "We spent a lot of time talking about Africa, as we should. Africa is a nation that suffers from incredible disease."—Gothenburg, Sweden, June 14, 2001 "... I've decided to work with our State governors ... to move 6,000 National Guard troops on the border, to help the current border patrol do the job until the new agents are trained. That makes sense to me, doesn't it?" Bush "When your demand for corn stays high, the price tends to go up, and your hog farmer gets disgruntled ..." Bush: 07/02/14 "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we," U.S. President Bush ~Aug. 5, 2004 twit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted April 11, 2013 #170 Share Posted April 11, 2013 North Korea has been gaining the upper hand for a few weeks now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted April 11, 2013 #171 Share Posted April 11, 2013 North Korea has been gaining the upper hand for a few weeks now North Korea has dealt itself a losing hand; and played it poorly for decades. Which nation do you think the more successful? The more self-reliant? The more respected internationally? NK or SK? The NK politburo rules in Hell. They have the world's 4th largest military; and seem to believe they need it (could be right). The standard of living in NK is an attrocity. Christopher Hitchens asserted that chronic starvation is such a widespread and persistent problem in NK, that the NK public is not merely about 4" shorter in stature than their SK brethren. They're also mentally stunted as well. It's an unimaginable nightmare! Obama would be doing the solar system a great humanitarian service to nuke Pyongyang; leave it a smoldering crater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted April 11, 2013 #172 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I would disagree with any assertion about any world leader made by anyone who has not studied their history and biography in detail, and I would further disagree with any one-word description of anyone. Bush: twit. Indeed. Others: Tony Blair: deranged. David Cameron..... er... oh no, sorry, we're talking about world leaders here ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted April 11, 2013 #173 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I believe Nixon was saying that North Korea was gaining the upper hand on being the biggest twit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted April 11, 2013 #174 Share Posted April 11, 2013 I believe Nixon was saying that North Korea was gaining the upper hand on being the biggest twit. Sort of lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted April 12, 2013 #175 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Was watching war stories, North Korea and Iran could be in a alliance to attacked the world from both sides, just like Japen and Germany did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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