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jjblondee

The book 'Missing 411-by David Paulides'

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Aftermath

I don't know if this has been mentioned on this thread yet or if it fits with the criteria outlined in the book but the Dyatlov Pass Incident is certainly mysterious. There are a few web pages dedicated to the mystery of of nine ski hikers who were found dead on a camping trip that has yet to be explained.

http://en.wikipedia....v_Pass_incident

It was explained. Two words: ball lightening.

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Ozfactor

The book called 'Missing 411 - by David Paulides' is of interest to me. I would like to read it and compare what facts he has put in it, BUT all the online bookstores either do not carry it, sold out, or such as Amazon online want a whopping price of $236.00 or more upto $715.00! Is this true? He wants this much? I have never heard of book being that terribly outrageously expensiveT in the interest of cryptids. Not even were my college text books that spendy and I was in nursing. Does anyone have more information on this book? Thank you, jj

thanks for posting about these books . I did a google search and found a lot of info on the books as I had not heard of them . I will get a copy of each and read them . We have also had unexplained , unsolved disappearances in Australia and I would be interested to know if there are similarities across countries .
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Careful_perspective

thanks for posting about these books . I did a google search and found a lot of info on the books as I had not heard of them . I will get a copy of each and read them . We have also had unexplained , unsolved disappearances in Australia and I would be interested to know if there are similarities across countries .

Buy the books from his website, I believe he has an international one now too. Though I can't be sure.

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astab

Paulides seems to be the real deal. His books do suffer from his lack of writing refinement, but in a sense, this only adds to his credibility. No elaboration, exaggeration, or florid prose - "just the facts". He makes a great talk show guest and his cases are convincing and deeply disturbing.

Moreover, he is to be credited for refusing to speculate on the ultimate cause(s) of these disappearances. His own testimony pretty much eliminates Bigfoot as any kind of universal explanatory principle.

He knows his stuff and knows his cases cold. He also does not suffer gladly the kind of fools who - not having heard his talks or read his books - keep coming up with "rational" explanations like wildcat or bear predation/attacks, drug fiends/cartels attacking hapless hikers, suicidal hikers, "well, they musta just got lost" campers, etc. All of these "normative" causes have already been eliminated from 411 cases - this is what makes them so unusual: the complete lack of standard explanations. Paulides is open to a number of speculations that do not exclude some possible Bigfoot involvement, but also weirdly seem to involve strange earth forces, unusual storms, victims transported impossible distances, the odd correlation of boulder fields and berry bushes with disappearances, the lack of any signs of blood or struggle in the vicinity, etc.

As it stands, the 411 cases are a true mystery, with ominous signs that the Forest Service and other governmental agencies are covertly involved.

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TheStrangenessIndex

Last few days of a Documentary film based on the books on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstar...e?ref=discovery

A worthy project, and one I'm happy to be a part of.

They made it! Can't wait to watch (though I am highly critical of the author, the series, and the ideas presented). The book I have is a little tough to read based on the way it is presented, but such a fascinating subject.

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Careful_perspective

They made it! Can't wait to watch (though I am highly critical of the author, the series, and the ideas presented). The book I have is a little tough to read based on the way it is presented, but such a fascinating subject.

Why are you critical if I may ask?

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TheStrangenessIndex

Why are you critical if I may ask?

There are several reasons, really. They can, by and large, be grouped under the "Faulty Logic" umbrella. I've been doing some of my own research (making FoIA requests, searching through newspaper archives for corroborating evidence) with many interesting results, which I'm slowly cobbling together for a review.

I also find his demeanor during interviews (I've worked through dozens of podcasts where he is a featured guest) extremely off-putting based on his obvious connections to paranormal topics -- Bigfoot, UFOs, etc -- his whole "I'm not making any wild claims..." while on a show that focuses on the paranormal is just disingenuous.

I've also traced some of his research directly back to articles written by John Keel. And I'm definitely not a fan of any person that draws the conclusion that "People go missing, then there is bad weather" rather than "Missing people are more difficult to find during bad weather" -- being an Occam fan and all.

Hope I'm not slagging off a favorite of yours! I wanted to like him, the book, and the subject. I just didn't.

Edited by TheStrangenessIndex

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Careful_perspective

There are several reasons, really. They can, by and large, be grouped under the "Faulty Logic" umbrella. I've been doing some of my own research (making FoIA requests, searching through newspaper archives for corroborating evidence) with many interesting results, which I'm slowly cobbling together for a review.

I also find his demeanor during interviews (I've worked through dozens of podcasts where he is a featured guest) extremely off-putting based on his obvious connections to paranormal topics -- Bigfoot, UFOs, etc -- his whole "I'm not making any wild claims..." while on a show that focuses on the paranormal is just disingenuous.

I've also traced some of his research directly back to articles written by John Keel. And I'm definitely not a fan of any person that draws the conclusion that "People go missing, then there is bad weather" rather than "Missing people are more difficult to find during bad weather" -- being an Occam fan and all.

Hope I'm not slagging off a favorite of yours! I wanted to like him, the book, and the subject. I just didn't.

I have read the book, and listened to many of the Podcasts he was featured in, yet I am not obsessed, merely curious. Yet, I do not find his demeanor to be off-putting, in fact, based on some of the other people you will see on Paranormal Radio he seemed like a breath of fresh air. I am not familiar with John Keel though, I just read his wiki page, is drawing from his conclusions a bad idea?

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SocCooz

Does anyone have a used copy of book 3 & 4 in the Missing 411 series they wouldn't mind parting with? He seems to be out of stock on the website, and I don't want to give money to the people selling them for the ridiculous prices on Amazon (especially since the author vehemently pleads with people to not buy them there).

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Deirdre Alexandra143

Is it not true that Military from other countries now.. Practically owns the national parks in the US and that the government here has permitted this and permitted whatever military exercises they decide to do..in the national parks and forests here?

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Taun

Is it not true that Military from other countries now.. Practically owns the national parks in the US and that the government here has permitted this and permitted whatever military exercises they decide to do..in the national parks and forests here?

I do not believe this to be true... I was in the Army for many years and went on more than a lot of exercises... We were specifically forbidden to enter any national park, wildlife preserve (that was not set up on already military land) or any land not

actively controlled by the military ("On post")... Now, sometimes Reserve or National Guard units will get permission to use city or county "park" land (city lakes, etc).. But this is for limited times, and highly restrictive purposes such as Convoy training on

dirt roads, signal exercises (setting up tactical communications nets) or for running "Certification" of common tasks (field first aid, land navigation, etc)...

I have never heard of any military unit allowed on the grounds of a national park, for training...

Edit to add... I have been on National Park/ national Forest land on duty before though... To assist in fighting forest or range fires, and to help locate lost campers/children...

Edited by Taun

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Cabbage

Has anyone read Paulides' most recent book? I was re-listening to an interview he did on Midnight in the Desert and he mentioned shifting his investigation to college age men disappearing in urban areas. This reminded me of an old C2C show where they talked about a "smiley-face murder cult" that was killing college age men. Any thoughts?

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Oniomancer

Has anyone read Paulides' most recent book? I was re-listening to an interview he did on Midnight in the Desert and he mentioned shifting his investigation to college age men disappearing in urban areas. This reminded me of an old C2C show where they talked about a "smiley-face murder cult" that was killing college age men. Any thoughts?

Bigfoot on campus?

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Deirdre Alexandra143

I have to admit.. For a while there.. I was skeptical of some of what David Paulides was saying.. But I was still intrigued.. Then during 1 interview.. He stated that often some men that went missing who had gone off alone.. 3O s White males ..who went missing.. Had German last names. Thats when. I did an "O my God".. Many years ago..a friend of mine had gone off by himself.. With his dog..his dog was discovered still alive..2 weeks later.. (This was in Yellowstone at thanksgiving time)..my friend (last name.. German...) was discovered the following spring.. Dead and at a totally different spot than the dog.Paulides is onto something here.

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Murenu

I discovered Paulides and Missing 411 about half a year ago through a sorta "fanfiction" thing on reddit. I must say he got me back into Fortean subjects, and he's extremely refreshing as he seems like an expert, though I have some slight skepticism. I've seen detractors who've made claims about him being ignorant about missing person behavior, but I'm not sure yet.

A hidden password for a site that shows photos and maps that were too cost prohibitive to include in either book

http://www.examiner....ver-been-solved

Link doesn't work.

I also find his demeanor during interviews (I've worked through dozens of podcasts where he is a featured guest) extremely off-putting based on his obvious connections to paranormal topics -- Bigfoot, UFOs, etc -- his whole "I'm not making any wild claims..." while on a show that focuses on the paranormal is just disingenuous.

I've always found him to be a guy that didn't go out of his way to believe in outlandish subjects but simply found himself in a situation where he was forced to acknowledge their possibility, which is contrary to many "paranormalist" types.

've also traced some of his research directly back to articles written by John Keel.

I must ask what is your issue with John. A. Keel? I thought the Mothman Prophecies was a great read.

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regeneratia

The book called 'Missing 411 - by David Paulides' is of interest to me. I would like to read it and compare what facts he has put in it, BUT all the online bookstores either do not carry it, sold out, or such as Amazon online want a whopping price of $236.00 or more upto $715.00! Is this true? He wants this much? I have never heard of book being that terribly outrageously expensiveT in the interest of cryptids. Not even were my college text books that spendy and I was in nursing. Does anyone have more information on this book? Thank you, jj

DOn't buy on Amazon. The prices are jacked. Go to Paulides site or get it at the library until you can find it.

Powell's might be reasonable. Half-priced books is also good.

I bought my nursing books used. Seems few people really read them, and I poured over them until they were dog-eared. Go, Brunner!!!

Edited by regeneratia
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FTW

Is it not true that Military from other countries now.. Practically owns the national parks in the US and that the government here has permitted this and permitted whatever military exercises they decide to do..in the national parks and forests here?

I think you might be thinking of the UN biosphere reserves,why we allow the UN any kind of control over our parks/lands is beyond me but thats another issue

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Anthony96

I like the devils in the details 

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Farmer77
On 8/14/2015 at 2:23 PM, supervike said:

Last few days of a Documentary film based on the books on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1032329905/missing-411-the-movie?ref=discovery

A worthy project, and one I'm happy to be a part of.

Just watched the documentary last night and I was quite disappointed to be honest with you. I find his speeches on youtube to be much more compelling and detailed. The film did a good job of capturing the emotions of those who had loved ones go missing but didnt do a great job of painting the overall picture of interconnectedness which so many of the cases have. IMO of course. 

Kinda weird to say this after giving a negative review but thanks for participating in the kickstarter for it. I find the whole thing to be fascinating and compelling. 

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ChrLzs

Note that you are responding to a 2015 post..  and I would add that Paulides promotes Bigfoot for all it's worth (even supporting Melba Ketchup!), and is not shy of trying to money-make off anything he can, including ridiculous prices on his book/s.

Other researchers have looked at the disappearances he has cherry picked and found no statistical significance beyond what you might expect from the typical rate by which people go missing and other factors like 'normal' predation by cougars, etc.

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Farmer77
2 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Other researchers have looked at the disappearances he has cherry picked and found no statistical significance beyond what you might expect from the typical rate by which people go missing and other factors like 'normal' predation by cougars, etc.

Ive heard this argument before and it simply doesn't hold water once you dig into the stories. There are just too many anomalous happenings. 

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ChrLzs
13 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Ive heard this argument before and it simply doesn't hold water once you dig into the stories. There are just too many anomalous happenings. 

How many should there be, exactly?  This is the same logical fallacy that is used to justify that we must be being visited by aliens.  But the no of stories simple reflects people's ability and desire to storytell, added to what actually happens from 'normal' disappearances, added to our cultural myths and legends..  Paulides is heavily involved in Bigfoot promotion, so he will have a natural bias to try to find anything that seemed odd.

As a start, since they began recording people going missing in the huge number of national parks in the Americas in the late 1800's, there are hundreds of thousands of disappearances.  Can you quote where Paulides refers to base-line figures to compare to his chosen 411?  Or where he draws a line to determine what should be termed 'mysterious'?  Does he compare the rate of 'mysteriousness' to non-national-park missing persons?

Cherry picking stories is not a good way to get at the truth.

And what do you think he's suggesting - it is that Bigfeet are doing this?  or something else?

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Farmer77
3 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

How many should there be, exactly?  This is the same logical fallacy that is used to justify that we must be being visited by aliens.  But the no of stories simple reflects people's ability and desire to storytell, added to what actually happens from 'normal' disappearances, added to our cultural myths and legends..

Thats whats great about Paulides. No storytelling necessary. Just the case as it was documented by those working the case at the time, as in you can read their documents directly on dude's website. 

5 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

As a start, since they began recording people going missing in the huge number of national parks in the Americas in the late 1800's, there are hundreds of thousands of disappearances.  Can you quote where Paulides refers to base-line figures to compare to his chosen 411?  Or where he draws a line to determine what should be termed 'mysterious'?  Does he compare the rate of 'mysteriousness' to non-national-park missing persons?

I honestly dont know if he has juxtaposed the "mysterious" missing people cases against the overall number of missing or not, I imagine since the parks dont keep a list that would require a ton of legwork. Either way I think that's kind of a straw man argument though. Once you dig into the details of the individual cases it becomes clear that something unusual happened (in most - I have read some that I found plausible explanations for) . Once you read enough of them though it becomes clear that something unusual happens alot , enough to have developed a trackable pattern. 

9 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

And what do you think he's suggesting - it is that Bigfeet are doing this?  or something else?

 He actually constantly goes out of his way to make it clear he's not suggesting anything beyond that in his professional experience there are a disproportionate number of people who go missing under mysterious circumstances in the national parks and that the national parks dont even keep track of those who have gone missing. 

I personally like Les Stroud's take on it that whatever is happening is probably outside of our comprehension at this point. 

As someone who has spent thousands of hours in the back country I read these cases with a pretty strong background in the outdoors and there are many which just flat out defy explanation. 

20 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Cherry picking stories is not a good way to get at the truth

But the truth is in the stories themselves. I dont think the dude has a vendetta against the national parks or anything like that. Man some of these cases are just freaking creepily weird. 

 

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