Wealth Distribution.

[supervike]

But again, according to so many on this thread, it's the rich man and corporations that worked so hard to attain that wealth. The rest of us just never applied ourselves hard enough. It has nothing to do with unequitable laws skewed to give favorable circumstances for those rich.

[F3SS]

But again, according to so many on this thread, it's the rich man and corporations that worked so hard to attain that wealth. The rest of us just never applied ourselves hard enough. It has nothing to do with unequitable laws skewed to give favorable circumstances for those rich.

Sorry vike but guys like you constantly refer to the rich as one mega wealthy insider group. I defend the rich a lot because there literally millions of millionaires and a great many of them did get rich on their own. If it were such an insiders game there would only be a small amount of rich people. No tight knit sinister group is going to open themselves up to millions of members.

Even a couple billionaires are on my good list. These are entrepreneurs who made things that became wildly successful. Bill Gates, Richard Branson who's always using his money for good things only a billionaire or a government can fund. Mark Cuban... Didn't he start a clothing business and became a billionaire?

Billionaires who's achievements are likely sinister but TBH I have no idea how these guys came into so much money... George Soros, Mayor Bloomberg, Warren Buffet... What good things and products have these people bright into society?

[Gunn]

But again, according to so many on this thread, it's the rich man and corporations that worked so hard to attain that wealth. The rest of us just never applied ourselves hard enough. It has nothing to do with unequitable laws skewed to give favorable circumstances for those rich.

Actually, Supervike...in the game of Capitalism, you play a crapshoot. There are times when it becomes a pyramid scheme and there are times when it's a cutthroat living, it's a system where it's every man/woman for himself, it's a rat race on a economic hill were we climb over each other to see who will get to the top. Unfortunately, someone has to stay at the bottom to support those all the way and at the top.

As an example: Let's say you and I hired on at the same time with a new company. Both of us are educated about the same and come from similar family backgrounds. But maybe I have an advantage over you, Supervike. Maybe I know the boss's daughter, really well, or maybe I know some people in another business, the right kind of business, who can help our new boss and his company make more profits. Maybe I'm a ferengi in human disguise. *rubs hands together and drools over latinum profits* Point is, I'm gonna find someway to get ahead of you, Supervike. Because the boss is eventually gonna need someone as his righthand man when the company gets big enough someday and you will still be at the bottom of the working man's totem poll, working a dead end job, that you hate, going nowhere, because I was slick enough to beat you to the punch in the corporate ass kissing game; and because most importantly...there is only room for one righthand man.

Another example: Let's say you and I both start a business separate from each other, same type of business, with the same education and family background. But maybe this time, you have an advantage over me in business that I don't have. Maybe you've known for sometime most of the upright standing people in your town or city and they all just happen to go to the same church as you do and like you better then me. Maybe you know some people in politics, politicians who could get you plenty of clients and I don't. Maybe you inherited a large some of cash and can invest some of that cash into heavy advertising, were as, I can't because I didn't get that lucky. Maybe you undercut me in prices to draw more customers over to your business for awhile, because you figured out a way to cut out the middle man and get your products made under your company's production in a foreign country that you built there, or from another foreign company that you have a special deal with. WTF! Made in China?! And just maybe, just maybe you know some shifty people who somehow know of a way of keeping me from growing my business. Point is, I never get big enough to make a profit and can't compete with you, so eventually I claim bankruptcy and go out of business.

With Capitalism there is equal opportunity alright, if you know how to play the game, but there is no such thing as wealth equality for everyone in Capitalism. Someone has to stay poor and be content with that, while the rest of us thrive on our way to the top.

[F3SS]

Purifier, you just described how the world works. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's fair and sometimes it's not. At no point in history has there been or could ever be a nation of all successful people. Just isn't realistic. But I think a country with a system that has millions of millionaires and who knows how many that make serious cash but not millions is a pretty good place and system to be in. Being rich and getting rich is achieved by many means and is not an exclusive insiders club. We do not have haves and have nots here. Haves can become have nots and have nots can become haves. Those titles don't work here because traditionally the haves will always have no matter what and the have nots cannot have no matter what.

Edited April 10, 2013 by -Mr_Fess-

[Sakari]

Purifier, you just described how the world works. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's fair and sometimes it's not. At no point in history has there been or could ever be a nation of all successful people. Just isn't realistic. But I think a country with a system that has millions of millionaires and who knows how many that make serious cash but not millions is a pretty good place and system to be in. Being rich and getting rich is achieved by many means and is not an exclusive insiders club. We do not have haves and have nots here. Haves can become have nots and have nots can become haves. Those titles don't work here because traditionally the haves will always have no matter what and the have nots cannot have no matter what.

It is not a inside club, but if you are not in the " circle ", or close to it, your chance of being in it are slim to none.

The ones who made it from nothing are far and few between. And, I bet they had a little " hand out " somewhere along the line.

I can not get there, unless I hit the lotto ( I do not play it ), or have a lawsuit......Hell, I can not even open up a business.

I am not saying it is not life, it is....I am p***ed about the tax part is all, well, and a few other things.

You know what really p***es me off?......The people that hate them, yet watch and support them on TV ( housewives of beverly hills ), and watch and support them by going to their events.....Then b**** about how over paid they are....( yes, pro sports )

Edited April 10, 2013 by Sakari

[F3SS]

Well sakari, what can I tell you. Some of us are doomed to be working men.

[Sakari]

Well sakari, what can I tell you. Some of us are doomed to be working men.

Yup.......

[CrimsonKing]

.

You know what really p***es me off?......The people that hate them, yet watch and support them on TV ( housewives of beverly hills ), and watch and support them by going to their events.....Then b**** about how over paid they are....( yes, pro sports )

These types of multi millionares you have mentioned make me sick.The people who have allowed it by supporting it have no right to complain though,i cannot stand how these (athletes) get free rides through college plus unknown other freebies yet they cannot even speak properly,couldnt answer 9x9 if their lives depended on it,and are constantly breaking laws that if some normal citizen broke it would be several years behind bars.Im sorry but running a few yards to a base,stretching your arms up to put a ball into a hoop,or running a ball into a endzone does not impress me and doesnt make someone special.I do enjoy watching boxing and MMA but these sports are something i participate in and none of these athletes (who actually put their lives on the line) for others entertainment have ever been given free rides,usually quite the opposite.Most fighters i have ever known come up the hard way and by the time some do make millions they have literally fought for it.

As for the trash we see on tv yet again if everyone stopped watching it this garbage would go away.I have never got the fascination with hollywood and its "stars" just a bunch of losers who the average citizen has given importance to and keep funneling money into their pockets.

[Sakari]

These types of multi millionares you have mentioned make me sick.The people who have allowed it by supporting it have no right to complain though,i cannot stand how these (athletes) get free rides through college plus unknown other freebies yet they cannot even speak properly,couldnt answer 9x9 if their lives depended on it,and are constantly breaking laws that if some normal citizen broke it would be several years behind bars.Im sorry but running a few yards to a base,stretching your arms up to put a ball into a hoop,or running a ball into a endzone does not impress me and doesnt make someone special.I do enjoy watching boxing and MMA but these sports are something i participate in and none of these athletes (who actually put their lives on the line) for others entertainment have ever been given free rides,usually quite the opposite.Most fighters i have ever known come up the hard way and by the time some do make millions they have literally fought for it.

As for the trash we see on tv yet again if everyone stopped watching it this garbage would go away.I have never got the fascination with hollywood and its "stars" just a bunch of losers who the average citizen has given importance to and keep funneling money into their pockets.

MMA

[AynRandSucks]

I am a Medically Retired Veteran. I receive S.S. benefits, Medicare, and Service-connected money from the V.A. Does this make me a "Taker?." Or would you belittle my service to my country and let me fend for myself? There's about a zero percent chance that I will become one of the 1%. What I don't like about this perceived notion that the 1% got where they are by hard work; discounting the fact that many of them got where they are either by inheritance, or by having parents who were wealthy enough to send them to college. Either way, this makes them also "Takers." Couple things to think about; The Roman empire existed for almost a thousand years, and were primarily brought down because of income inequality. I also dislike the fact that that many of the 1% send their money to off-shore entities, where they are not taxed. Doesn't seem quite fair does it? So our last Republican Presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, is a classic example of one of these 1%er's. His father George worked hard (in fact was quite a good Govenor for Michigan), who then distributed his wealth to his children. He put them through college, good colleges, and then they got their inheritances. Romney then sent some to an off-shore account, and used the rest to start his own business. Of course we know how that went; all the lost jobs for the middle class, jobs sent overseas where wages are low, and wallah!, more money sent off-shore. This, of course, was an endless cycle, but one for which he felt entitled to run for office, based on his ability to earn enormous amounts of money. It was no surprise to me that he only released 1 and a half of his IRS documents. Then the whole country would have been alerted to the low amount of money he actually paid on his enormous wealth. Let me put this maker/taker view in another light. Somebody somewhere is flipping burgers for a living. That person works very hard at what they do. But they will probably never, well maybe, become a 1%er. Somebody has to flip the burgers. If we were all the 1%ers, who would flip the burgers? Who would mow the lawns, who would pick up the trash, who would be the maids? This whole income inequality thing started during Reagan's administration. He's the one who lowered the upper income tax bracket. Up until then, they paid more taxes but they were still wealthy. We had more money for fixing roads etc. But after that, because the wealthy no longer paid their fair share of taxes, and it got more prevalent for the wealthy to send their wealth off-shore, middle-class wages stagnated, while those 1%ers gained more and more of the wealth. This is a recipe for disaster. Eventually the poor will revolt, as they did in Rome, and our great nation will no longer be the greatest nation on earth. Just as there are probably lazy takers, there are probably lazy 1%ers also. Everyone in their own way contributes to society; working long hours doing what they are capable of doing. This notion that anyone who is not a 1%er is lazy, or not trying hard enough, is just stupid. Get a grip and quit whining.

[tapirmusic]

Welcome to UM AynRandSucks!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and wager that you have actually read exactly zero books by Ms. Rand.

[F3SS]

That was the longest troll post I've ever seen.

[F3SS]

It looks like an unedited version of an Obama state of the union address.

[ninjadude]

Sorry vike but guys like you constantly refer to the rich as one mega wealthy insider group.

it's actually a very small exclusive club that controls the vast majority of wealth.

The United States has the largest number of billionaires of any country, with 442 as of 2013

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billionaire

[CrimsonKing]

I am a Medically Retired Veteran. I receive S.S. benefits, Medicare, and Service-connected money from the V.A. Does this make me a "Taker?." Or would you belittle my service to my country and let me fend for myself? There's about a zero percent chance that I will become one of the 1%. What I don't like about this perceived notion that the 1% got where they are by hard work; discounting the fact that many of them got where they are either by inheritance, or by having parents who were wealthy enough to send them to college. Either way, this makes them also "Takers." Couple things to think about; The Roman empire existed for almost a thousand years, and were primarily brought down because of income inequality. I also dislike the fact that that many of the 1% send their money to off-shore entities, where they are not taxed. Doesn't seem quite fair does it? So our last Republican Presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, is a classic example of one of these 1%er's. His father George worked hard (in fact was quite a good Govenor for Michigan), who then distributed his wealth to his children. He put them through college, good colleges, and then they got their inheritances. Romney then sent some to an off-shore account, and used the rest to start his own business. Of course we know how that went; all the lost jobs for the middle class, jobs sent overseas where wages are low, and wallah!, more money sent off-shore. This, of course, was an endless cycle, but one for which he felt entitled to run for office, based on his ability to earn enormous amounts of money. It was no surprise to me that he only released 1 and a half of his IRS documents. Then the whole country would have been alerted to the low amount of money he actually paid on his enormous wealth. Let me put this maker/taker view in another light. Somebody somewhere is flipping burgers for a living. That person works very hard at what they do. But they will probably never, well maybe, become a 1%er. Somebody has to flip the burgers. If we were all the 1%ers, who would flip the burgers? Who would mow the lawns, who would pick up the trash, who would be the maids? This whole income inequality thing started during Reagan's administration. He's the one who lowered the upper income tax bracket. Up until then, they paid more taxes but they were still wealthy. We had more money for fixing roads etc. But after that, because the wealthy no longer paid their fair share of taxes, and it got more prevalent for the wealthy to send their wealth off-shore, middle-class wages stagnated, while those 1%ers gained more and more of the wealth. This is a recipe for disaster. Eventually the poor will revolt, as they did in Rome, and our great nation will no longer be the greatest nation on earth. Just as there are probably lazy takers, there are probably lazy 1%ers also. Everyone in their own way contributes to society; working long hours doing what they are capable of doing. This notion that anyone who is not a 1%er is lazy, or not trying hard enough, is just stupid. Get a grip and quit whining.

Thanks for your service But read through what people have classified as the lazy and not trying at all before you come in on a post like john wayne telling everyone how it is!None here have said all outside the 1% are lazy,so get your **** straight before making assumptions and accusing others of things they havnt said

[Einsteinium]

I am a Medically Retired Veteran. I receive S.S. benefits, Medicare, and Service-connected money from the V.A. Does this make me a "Taker?." Or would you belittle my service to my country and let me fend for myself? There's about a zero percent chance that I will become one of the 1%. What I don't like about this perceived notion that the 1% got where they are by hard work; discounting the fact that many of them got where they are either by inheritance, or by having parents who were wealthy enough to send them to college. Either way, this makes them also "Takers." Couple things to think about; The Roman empire existed for almost a thousand years, and were primarily brought down because of income inequality. I also dislike the fact that that many of the 1% send their money to off-shore entities, where they are not taxed. Doesn't seem quite fair does it? So our last Republican Presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, is a classic example of one of these 1%er's. His father George worked hard (in fact was quite a good Govenor for Michigan), who then distributed his wealth to his children. He put them through college, good colleges, and then they got their inheritances. Romney then sent some to an off-shore account, and used the rest to start his own business. Of course we know how that went; all the lost jobs for the middle class, jobs sent overseas where wages are low, and wallah!, more money sent off-shore. This, of course, was an endless cycle, but one for which he felt entitled to run for office, based on his ability to earn enormous amounts of money. It was no surprise to me that he only released 1 and a half of his IRS documents. Then the whole country would have been alerted to the low amount of money he actually paid on his enormous wealth. Let me put this maker/taker view in another light. Somebody somewhere is flipping burgers for a living. That person works very hard at what they do. But they will probably never, well maybe, become a 1%er. Somebody has to flip the burgers. If we were all the 1%ers, who would flip the burgers? Who would mow the lawns, who would pick up the trash, who would be the maids? This whole income inequality thing started during Reagan's administration. He's the one who lowered the upper income tax bracket. Up until then, they paid more taxes but they were still wealthy. We had more money for fixing roads etc. But after that, because the wealthy no longer paid their fair share of taxes, and it got more prevalent for the wealthy to send their wealth off-shore, middle-class wages stagnated, while those 1%ers gained more and more of the wealth. This is a recipe for disaster. Eventually the poor will revolt, as they did in Rome, and our great nation will no longer be the greatest nation on earth. Just as there are probably lazy takers, there are probably lazy 1%ers also. Everyone in their own way contributes to society; working long hours doing what they are capable of doing. This notion that anyone who is not a 1%er is lazy, or not trying hard enough, is just stupid. Get a grip and quit whining.

Thank you for your service! And no that does not make you a taker. You EARNED those benefits. A taker would be someone who gets benefits like that, only they did nothing to earn them and they manipulate and use the system to their advantage. They can work but just choose not to because it is easier to just mooch off other people. The true looters are a minority.

The fact of the matter is that only 2%-4% of the millionaires in this country inherited their wealth. http://blogs.wsj.com...or-family-made/ Almost all are self made. But I question this statistic, as it does not account for other benefits they may have gotten from family. Like a free ride to a great college. Here is a little better article that I think is closer to reality: http://finance.yahoo...-204426982.html

Edited April 11, 2013 by Einsteinium

[Mr Right Wing]

Thank you for your service! And no that does not make you a taker. You EARNED those benefits. A taker would be someone who gets benefits like that, only they did nothing to earn them and they manipulate and use the system to their advantage. They can work but just choose not to because it is easier to just mooch off other people. The true looters are a minority.

The fact of the matter is that only 2%-4% of the millionaires in this country inherited their wealth. http://blogs.wsj.com...or-family-made/ Almost all are self made. But I question this statistic, as it does not account for other benefits they may have gotten from family. Like a free ride to a great college. Here is a little better article that I think is closer to reality: http://finance.yahoo...-204426982.html

This may well upset the moaners but most of them arent intelligent enough to get a degree. A private education only gets you a decent teacher it doesnt improve your grey matter any. As for the quality of teachers in state schools they have to pass the same exams as private ones (i.e. physics degree to teach physics) which is something else the moaners like to ignore.

[Guest]

Have you ever heard of streaming. It used to be a bit more obvious than it is now with secondary moderns teaching technical skills only and almost no cross over between schools. Once stream at 11years you were practically glued to your role for life. There was almost no change of the 70% in secondary moderns getting into university.

The situation is much the same still.

Constriction of opportunity was what education was all about.

Many people subsequently re-entered education as mature students and achieved good to excellent degrees - put paid to the story that they were not intelligent enough in the first place.

Your parents wealth and status have always been the single greatest determining factor in whether you achieved a higher level qualification and were admitted to the ranks of the wealthy.

Things briefly improved in the 1970's when free university education became a universal right for many - but that has subsequently largely been removed and now it costs as much as a house to enter higher education. This is entrenched inter generational wealth inequality.

Br Cornelius

[F3SS]

This may well upset the moaners but most of them arent intelligent enough to get a degree. A private education only gets you a decent teacher it doesnt improve your grey matter any. As for the quality of teachers in state schools they have to pass the same exams as private ones (i.e. physics degree to teach physics) which is something else the moaners like to ignore.

I have to say that earning a degree in a field doesn't improve your ability to teach, aside from teaching degrees. I went to tech school for graphic design. Most of our teachers were just good graphic designers. They couldn't teach well at all and some just plain couldn't teach period. The best teachers we had were ones that actually had teaching degrees. I've known people great at what the do but they can't teach it for crap. A lot of times they know so much but can't relay the info properly. They get frustrated when people don't instantly grasp what they think is common sense now because they've been doing it so long it's like second nature.

A simple for instance... A painter hires a helper. The painter always tells him he has to prime first, then paint. The helper asks what's the point if the paint covers it up, whatever it is. The old painter says quit asking questions and do what I say. Some job later the painter leaves his helper to do some work on his own. After all, how hard is painting? Two months later and the painter gets a call saying all the paint is peeling and bubbling. Turns out the helper figured he'd do things his way and just paint. It looks just as good and no one will ever know he thought to himself. All the painter ever had to do was explain that primer makes the paint stick to the surface.

[Sakari]

This may well upset the moaners but most of them arent intelligent enough to get a degree. A private education only gets you a decent teacher it doesnt improve your grey matter any. As for the quality of teachers in state schools they have to pass the same exams as private ones (i.e. physics degree to teach physics) which is something else the moaners like to ignore.

Oh thank you great and all powerful.

Your wisdom is more then we could have hoped for.

How about join a discussion without insults and name calling. That would be one sign of intelligence.

[supervike]

Sorry vike but guys like you constantly refer to the rich as one mega wealthy insider group. I defend the rich a lot because there literally millions of millionaires and a great many of them did get rich on their own. If it were such an insiders game there would only be a small amount of rich people. No tight knit sinister group is going to open themselves up to millions of members.

Even a couple billionaires are on my good list. These are entrepreneurs who made things that became wildly successful. Bill Gates, Richard Branson who's always using his money for good things only a billionaire or a government can fund. Mark Cuban... Didn't he start a clothing business and became a billionaire?

Billionaires who's achievements are likely sinister but TBH I have no idea how these guys came into so much money... George Soros, Mayor Bloomberg, Warren Buffet... What good things and products have these people bright into society?

Just to clarify, I've nothing agains rich people at all. I think capitalism is a good thing. There are plenty of examples, like you mention, of people who worked hard, and made it big. More power to them.

I'm just slightly perturbed the thread turned into such a 'the poor folks are lazy' thread. As if someone who hasn't made a million dollars isn't a hard enough worker.

But, ultimately, the video at the beginning shows the real problem. The growing gap between the have and have nots is not good for our economy, it's not good for our society, and it's not good for anyone who isn't in that 1%. Money in those amounts = Power. That's what I feel the problem is. I don't care if some dude owns 27 yachts and three small countries. But, I DO care when that guy can buy up a politician, or pay for so many lobbyists that common sense and fairness gets trampled. That's my only point in this thing.

[Michelle]

Your parents wealth and status have always been the single greatest determining factor in whether you achieved a higher level qualification and were admitted to the ranks of the wealthy.

So all of the people that scrimped and saved, from the time their children were born, so their kids could go to college and have a better life don't matter? What about the people who worked their own way through college? You are apparently unaware of all of the grants that are available to people who are willing to apply themselves. There are thousands of different grant programs from the federal to the state level and you can get several of them at one time. You can also get benefits from the state if you are going to school full time and can't afford to support yourself.

With 17.5 million students, I know for a fact the vast majority of them did not come from wealthy families.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Michelle

[Einsteinium]

So all of the people that scrimped and saved, from the time their children were born, so their kids could go to college and have a better life don't matter? What about the people who worked their own way through college? You are apparently unaware of all of the grants that are available to people who are willing to apply themselves. There are thousands of different grant programs from the federal to the state level and you can get several of them at one time. You can also get benefits from the state if you are going to school full time and can't afford to support yourself.

With 17.5 million students, I know for a fact the vast majority of them did not come from wealthy families.

You have a point, and I am one of those students who is working my way through college, and taking out some loans and getting some grant money to help me do it. But if you want to join the elite 1% power/wealth elites of this country. Going to community college and graduating with $20k in student loan debt (just an example) is not likely to get you there. Now graduating from Yale or Harvard, with $0 student loan debt, and a wealth of elite connections, now that gives you an edge. And that is what the power/money elites of this country are able to do, that we are not able to do. It gives them a distinct advantage over most other people.

[Michelle]

You have a point, and I am one of those students who is working my way through college, and taking out some loans and getting some grant money to help me do it. But if you want to join the elite 1% power/wealth elites of this country. Going to community college and graduating with $20k in student loan debt (just an example) is not likely to get you there. Now graduating from Yale or Harvard, with $0 student loan debt, and a wealth of elite connections, now that gives you an edge. And that is what the power/money elites of this country are able to do, that we are not able to do. It gives them a distinct advantage over most other people.

My husband and I started a business with very little. We aren't rich by any means and didn't go to college. What we have found to be more beneficial than anything is to get involved in the community. Some of the most powerful people we know we have met from doing community service. I met the most prestigious and richest man in our city while volunteering to clean up the river. He is a boater, like us, and hates the trash that people throw into the waterways. I started talking to him while we were both covered in mud pulling a tire out of the water. I had no idea who he was. He has thrown a lot of business our way.

[F3SS]

You have a point, and I am one of those students who is working my way through college, and taking out some loans and getting some grant money to help me do it. But if you want to join the elite 1% power/wealth elites of this country. Going to community college and graduating with $20k in student loan debt (just an example) is not likely to get you there. Now graduating from Yale or Harvard, with $0 student loan debt, and a wealth of elite connections, now that gives you an edge. And that is what the power/money elites of this country are able to do, that we are not able to do. It gives them a distinct advantage over most other people.

That goes for any country in any time of history. Of course rich people have advantages and of course their kids do too. Aside from a few families out there somewhere, that wealth hasn't always been there. It started somewhere somehow in their lineage and so on and so on. Best you can do is try really hard, get really lucky, invent something people want en mass or go find a sugar momma and marry her and don't sign a prenup. Otherwise, do the best you can, be happy with your achievements and take care of your family and friends first. Worrying over other people's advantages won't get you anywhere. That's just how it's gonna be. If the world is ever to know of the elite SuperVanderVike family you must learn and achieve as much as you can, teach your kids to learn and achieve more and your grandchildren to do even more and eventually your family may become the cutthroat capitalistic fat cats that you currently loathe. Or, you're just going to have to get really lucky. Bottom line is there are always going to be relatively few rich in any society and most of us are born to do the daily grinds that truly make the world go 'round.

Edited April 11, 2013 by -Mr_Fess-