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supervike

Wealth Distribution.

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F3SS

For the record I've dealt with plenty of bums from well outside the city limits too.

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Michelle

One of the main reasons I love having a business, in a disadvantaged part of town, are the people that don't ever give up. I've seen so many success stories from people that had little to nothing. They didn't become millionaires, but they had decent jobs and saved their money for their retirement. Little old people that worked at the same job for thirty years and bought run down houses. They fixed them up after work, rented them out and end up with nine or ten of them over the years. They knew they couldn't count on what they could get from the goverment to live on so they took it upon themselves to take care of themselves. They are an inspiration!

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supervike

Actually we do. That is the nature of the beast. This in not some Socialist Utopia where we are all sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya. We are hunters and the jungle is where we thrive in. This is our nature. Not being corralled like cattle. Even the inner city takes on characteristics of the jungle.

Why take it to the extreme? I never suggested that we become any thing of the sort. We are not all capable of being hunters living in a jungle. That's why we live in a society. Laws dictate fairness, otherwise we'd have no laws on stealing, violence and etc.

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Mr Right Wing

Why take it to the extreme? I never suggested that we become any thing of the sort. We are not all capable of being hunters living in a jungle. That's why we live in a society. Laws dictate fairness, otherwise we'd have no laws on stealing, violence and etc.

There is such hate and negativity towards society by some people. They lack the mentality to get anywhere in life, become bitter blaming others when they dont and finally resort to trying to cheat their way to the top. When they get sacked for their attitude towards others or not being able to perform in the management position they managed to manipulate their way into they still dont learn.

Hard work, productivity, positivity, treating others correctly and getting qualifications are how you get somewhere in life.

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F3SS

I'd say laws dictate responsibility, ideally at least, as opposed to fairness. Fairness differs from person to person. For instance murder is illegal. Maybe a vengeful father who's kid was killed or abused by someone would think it's fair to kill the b****** who did that to his kid. The law against murder just doesn't seem fair to him in this instance but it does dictate that he'll be held responsible for his actions or remind him not to sink to that level and remain a responsible citizen.

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Capt Amerika

There is such hate and negativity towards society by some people. They lack the mentality to get anywhere in life, become bitter blaming others when they dont and finally resort to trying to cheat their way to the top. When they get sacked for their attitude towards others or not being able to perform in the management position they managed to manipulate their way into they still dont learn.

Hard work, productivity, positivity, treating others correctly and getting qualifications are how you get somewhere in life.

I have noticed that an alarming number of inner city folks stay in the generational poverty cycle and i was listening to our great leader one day and he hit it right on the head.

He said that we need to redistribute the wealth to allow these poor folks a chance to get out of poverty.

It was then and there i realized why we have generational poverty.

The Democrats have them convinced that they have NO CHANCE at all without the governments assistance.

These people believe that if they dont keep the Democrats in power that they will starve.

Our government is the CAUSE of poverty. You cant expect a person to go work if youre going to keep paying them not to work.

Saw a sign at a National Park the other day that seems quite fitting here, it said:

"Do not feed the animals, they will become dependant on handouts and will stop hunting and eventually starve".

Want to close the gap between rich and poor?

Keep the govt out of the equation.

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Gromdor

So basically what everyone here is saying is that everyone not in that 1% owning 40% of America is lazy and dependent on the government?

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Mr Right Wing

I have noticed that an alarming number of inner city folks stay in the generational poverty cycle and i was listening to our great leader one day and he hit it right on the head.

He said that we need to redistribute the wealth to allow these poor folks a chance to get out of poverty.

It was then and there i realized why we have generational poverty.

The Democrats have them convinced that they have NO CHANCE at all without the governments assistance.

These people believe that if they dont keep the Democrats in power that they will starve.

Our government is the CAUSE of poverty. You cant expect a person to go work if youre going to keep paying them not to work.

Saw a sign at a National Park the other day that seems quite fitting here, it said:

"Do not feed the animals, they will become dependant on handouts and will stop hunting and eventually starve".

Want to close the gap between rich and poor?

Keep the govt out of the equation.

I agree they are spreading a culture of entitlement instead of telling them to forge their own futures.

Good post

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Kowalski

I have noticed that an alarming number of inner city folks stay in the generational poverty cycle and i was listening to our great leader one day and he hit it right on the head.

He said that we need to redistribute the wealth to allow these poor folks a chance to get out of poverty.

It was then and there i realized why we have generational poverty.

The Democrats have them convinced that they have NO CHANCE at all without the governments assistance.

These people believe that if they dont keep the Democrats in power that they will starve.

Our government is the CAUSE of poverty. You cant expect a person to go work if youre going to keep paying them not to work.

Saw a sign at a National Park the other day that seems quite fitting here, it said:

"Do not feed the animals, they will become dependant on handouts and will stop hunting and eventually starve".

Want to close the gap between rich and poor?

Keep the govt out of the equation.

:tu::clap::tsu:

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Mr Right Wing

So basically what everyone here is saying is that everyone not in that 1% owning 40% of America is lazy and dependent on the government?

My estimation of class structure -

20% - Little income, criminal records, drug addictions, anti-social behaviour, flunked high school, wrong mentality to succeed in life.

30% - Little to moderate income, generally law abiding, high school qualifications, can afford a few luxuries like a yearly holiday.

33% - Moderate income, generally law abiding, college and university education, can afford a wide range of luxuries, many start their own businesses.

15% - Moderate to high income, generally law abiding, university education, can afford whatever luxuries they want, most own their own businesses.

2% - High income, can afford anything, have had huge success in their business or have excelled in their areas such as top flight footballers.

At moderate income levels or above income really isnt an issue for people. Its the have nots who constantly moan about the successful earning high incomes and I think if they've struggled through univeristy, worked hard in their careers and have risked their capital setting themselves up in business they fully deserve their bank balances.

The country needs more people like that not more of the bottom.

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IamsSon

So basically what everyone here is saying is that everyone not in that 1% owning 40% of America is lazy and dependent on the government?

Not at all. What I see people saying is that, in the US, UK, and other countries where capitalism still has a hold, people have the opportunity to change their financial standing, and that the vast majority of the poor are there because of their own decisions and their actions or lack of actions. Yes, just like in any case, some are there because of circumstances beyond their control, maybe they had a family member suffer a terrible medical condition that drained their finances while also forcing them to have to choose between working and tending to their family member, maybe something else, but the vast majority are there by choice and by upbringing.
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Gromdor

Not at all. What I see people saying is that, in the US, UK, and other countries where capitalism still has a hold, people have the opportunity to change their financial standing, and that the vast majority of the poor are there because of their own decisions and their actions or lack of actions. Yes, just like in any case, some are there because of circumstances beyond their control, maybe they had a family member suffer a terrible medical condition that drained their finances while also forcing them to have to choose between working and tending to their family member, maybe something else, but the vast majority are there by choice and by upbringing.

Unfortunately, the data and trends from the last 40 years show this to be increasingly untrue. Wealth is going down in all categories and going to the very top. To say that people are not working as hard, increasingly using entitlements, and making poor decisions does not explain why all categories are losing wealth. It would be a good explaination for the lowest incomes perhaps, but for the middle class? The opportunities to increase standing are disappearing as well as the categories begin to flatline. Lower class and middle class are beginning to blur together. Before a lower class person could aspire to great wealth or work towards a more humbler middle class existance, a lot better opportunity than the 1 in 100 shot at upper class. As the middle class disappears so do odds of class advancement.

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Mr Right Wing

Unfortunately, the data and trends from the last 40 years show this to be increasingly untrue. Wealth is going down in all categories and going to the very top. To say that people are not working as hard, increasingly using entitlements, and making poor decisions does not explain why all categories are losing wealth. It would be a good explaination for the lowest incomes perhaps, but for the middle class? The opportunities to increase standing are disappearing as well as the categories begin to flatline. Lower class and middle class are beginning to blur together. Before a lower class person could aspire to great wealth or work towards a more humbler middle class existance, a lot better opportunity than the 1 in 100 shot at upper class. As the middle class disappears so do odds of class advancement.

Show us this data from a politically neutral factual source.

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IamsSon

Unfortunately, the data and trends from the last 40 years show this to be increasingly untrue. Wealth is going down in all categories and going to the very top. To say that people are not working as hard, increasingly using entitlements, and making poor decisions does not explain why all categories are losing wealth. It would be a good explaination for the lowest incomes perhaps, but for the middle class? The opportunities to increase standing are disappearing as well as the categories begin to flatline. Lower class and middle class are beginning to blur together. Before a lower class person could aspire to great wealth or work towards a more humbler middle class existance, a lot better opportunity than the 1 in 100 shot at upper class. As the middle class disappears so do odds of class advancement.

As someone else pointed out earlier, if you want to know why the Middle Class is losing ground, look to the government's wealth redistribution activities. The rich have the means to protect their money, either by using professional accountants, or by investing or by banking overseas, the middle class does not, so all those nice "government assistance" programs that allow the lazy poor to live better than the vast majority of people in the rest of the world are paid for by the money taken away from the middle class.
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hacktorp

The rich have the means to protect their money, either by using professional accountants, or by investing or by banking overseas, the middle class does not, so all those nice "government assistance" programs that allow the lazy poor to live better than the vast majority of people in the rest of the world are paid for by the money taken away from the middle class.

Don't forget 'wealth protection' that comes via direct, taxpayer-funded bailouts and endless Fed money-printing (Quantitative Easing).

Now those are some 'nice "government assistance" programs' which allow the lazy, financialized-rich (and their lazy extended families) to live better than, well, everyone, and are also paid for by the money taken away from the middle class.

Mad yet?

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IamsSon

Don't forget 'wealth protection' that comes via direct, taxpayer-funded bailouts and endless Fed money-printing (Quantitative Easing).

Now those are some 'nice "government assistance" programs' which allow the lazy, financialized-rich (and their lazy extended families) to live better than, well, everyone, and are also paid for by the money taken away from the middle class.

Mad yet?

Aaaand what is the one thing in common there? Come on, you can do it! Look closely, what was the common denominator there?

That's right: GOVERNMENT

I was categorically as opposed to the bail outs as I am to any other form of "government assistance."

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hacktorp

Aaaand what is the one thing in common there? Come on, you can do it! Look closely, what was the common denominator there?

That's right: GOVERNMENT

I was categorically as opposed to the bail outs as I am to any other form of "government assistance."

Go ahead...take it one more step!

Which class of citizens funnels (far and away) the most money toward influencing/bribing GOVERNMENT policy makers?

If you picked 'the lazy poor' or 'the hard-working middle class', well, you'd be wrong.

So it would appear that GOVERNMENT is hardly a "common denominator" these days. Corruption and fraud originate not with GOVERNMENT, but rather with those who control GOVERNMENT.

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ninjadude

Evidence on class mobility - and its decline - disproves your assertion.

We do all indeed have choices, but for many those choices are massively constrained by their circumstances.

America is broken.

Br Cornelius

unfortunately many Americans cling to the myth that they are just temporarily displaced millionaires.

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Br Cornelius

That's so OWS and nothing happened. It fizzled out like a cheap sparkler.

More than one socialist here, possibly you, has told me in the past that we should look to Sweden or maybe it was Switzerland as an example of the greatness that is socialism. The selling point was the amount of billionaires and millionaires who live there in an effort to condemn my point that socialism will run a countries people broke. So I'll ask you, why are the rich in those countries something to admire and the ones here are something to loathe? Why is their wealth accumulation on the moral high ground?

You make the classic mistake of believing I am as socialist simply because i don't agree with your one size fits all perspective. Wrong !

The jobs flew away when people who think like you got into government and made the cost of doing business and production too expensive to be competitive.

Damn right I take no responsibility for how these so called victims ended up where they are. I don't know them and I don't owe them.

I've hired these victims before. Funny who you'll find when you run help wanted ads in areas close to the city.

Victim #1: Fell asleep the first day on the job. I kept him for about two or three weeks. If somebody wasn't right next to him all day he'd forget what he was doing and whatever, he needed a babysitter. He wasn't making me any money and I didn't owe him any favors so adios. Dumbass had FIVE kids and wasn't shy about getting 'dat check from the government. Working for me or not I am paying for his family either way and likely still am.

Victim #2: Called me about the ad which clearly said 'must have valid license and vehicle'. I confirmed with him over the phone that he had those things. He shows up in a busted up car with a half assed installed side mirror. I asked him what the deal was and he said it's his girlfriends car that he wrecked after they got in a fight and the stupid mirror came from another car from which he stole the mirror in an effort to disguise his screw up from her. Needless to say I was less than impressed. I asked him for his license so I could copy it for employee paperwork. He tells me then that he don't have one. It's suspended. Well he was there and I had work scheduled so I decided what the hell. Maybe he can work. 1st day went ok. Second day he showed up. Went ok. That night he called off with some bullsht story about his grandma and said he would call in the morning with an update. I already knew I was done with him. Completely screwed my plans and calls off on the third day. He didn't call until the next evening. I said it isn't going to work and met up with him to pay him and gave him almost twice as much in cash as I should've. But it was good riddance don't bother me again money. He acted disappointed and said he thought he showed me a lot, as in effort and work ethic. I shook my head and left.

There have been others but you know what man? These people have made their own bed. Maybe it's their parents fault but it isn't societies and it certainly isn't mine. I tried to help but they weren't worth my time or even minimum wage though I paid them more.

Your going to claim that American workers could ever be price competitive with Chinese workers, and that the American corportaions weren't been driven by simple market imperative.

I think your a fantasist.

Common sense can be very subjective. Charles Manson thought the coming race war which would lead to a black victory and black president which would lead to such disaster that the nation would beg for a white man to lead again who happened to be Charles Manson was plain old vanilla common sense too.

People are only victims if they want to be, in the context of this conversation that is. There is nothing and no one stopping them from doing something different and better or even great. I have a close friend who I grew up with who is beginning to think like you more and more. While he does take responsibility for his circumstances he has no problem thinking of ways that 'the system' has held him or is holding him back. He bought into the OWS farce and converted to an Obama supporter. He despises the rich. To make a long story short he comes up with all this nonsense yet plays call of duty for hours at a time after work. Nothing wrong with that but if that's what you're going to do don't cry the blues when you're not showered with good fortune. He works hard and is a good dad but its not the system that's holding him back from whatever it is he feels he should or should have achieved by now.

In a globalized market - your average Jo can never set up a manufacturing business that can compete with foreign imports. Simple. No amount wishing is going to get that man to set up a successful small manufacturing concern when he can never produce a price competitive product.

Br Cornelius

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Gromdor

As someone else pointed out earlier, if you want to know why the Middle Class is losing ground, look to the government's wealth redistribution activities. The rich have the means to protect their money, either by using professional accountants, or by investing or by banking overseas, the middle class does not, so all those nice "government assistance" programs that allow the lazy poor to live better than the vast majority of people in the rest of the world are paid for by the money taken away from the middle class.

If money is being taken from the middle class and given to the lower class, how is it ending up in the upperclass?

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Br Cornelius

So basically what everyone here is saying is that everyone not in that 1% owning 40% of America is lazy and dependent on the government?

It seems your fellow American here are wanabe millionaires who hate anyone who isn't also a wanabe, no wonder you are fracturing apart.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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Gromdor

Show us this data from a politically neutral factual source.

There is nothing political about the data, the only politics comes from speculation on what is causing the trend. Conservatives/Republicans accept the data and tend to blame entitlements/big government/Democrats for the trend. Liberals/Democrats tend to blame inequality/business over people/Republicans for the trend. I thought the video the OP posted was fairly political neutral.

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IamsSon

Go ahead...take it one more step!

Which class of citizens funnels (far and away) the most money toward influencing/bribing GOVERNMENT policy makers?

If you picked 'the lazy poor' or 'the hard-working middle class', well, you'd be wrong.

So it would appear that GOVERNMENT is hardly a "common denominator" these days. Corruption and fraud originate not with GOVERNMENT, but rather with those who control GOVERNMENT.

Sooo, the answer is to remove government from the market, not to seek to give government more authority.
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ninjadude

Sooo, the answer is to remove government from the market, not to seek to give government more authority.

no that would make the market what it is fast becoming - fascist. A clatch of robber barrons.

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Br Cornelius

no that would make the market what it is fast becoming - fascist. A clatch of robber barrons.

To late for the USA and UK I fear.

Br Cornelius

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