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supervike

Wealth Distribution.

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Capt Amerika

And you suffer as a consequence. its only you as a citizen who can do anything about it.

My point here is, you are blaming the victims of a system that went bad 40years ago. By not been more outraged at the perpetrators you are part of the problem and you will only see the situation get worse as more wealth and power is concentrated into an ever smaller cartel of the rich and influential. The inevitable logic of the progression you are on is that you will either become one of the most favoured companies or you will be driven out of business by punitive use of the corrupt states power to look after its own. i don't fancy your chances.

Unless people like you take an active interest in dismantling the power of the state-corporate complex you will be its inevitable victim, as the citizenry of the Italian fascist state increasingly became the victims of their own nation.

Br Cornelius

Then why is it that in America, Poverty has been redifined so much that it now means you can only afford the basic cable for your 40 inch flatscreen and that the mobile plan may have limited speeds during peak hours and the car your driving is a compact thats 5 years old?

When i was growing up, and in poverty, we drove cars that were 20 years old, had one landline, and our black and white tv only received broadcast channels for free.

all other money went to pay bills.

I have worked my way up from that to be a succesful middle class person and am happy as can be.

Now my kids will get a better start than i had and their kids the same etc....

That is how you get to be in the 1% someday, you dont plan on doing it in a generation.

I may have a less than savory Govt, they may give rich people more than they deserve at tax time but in the end

I Love my country and all the opportunities its afforded me.

I have not been held back or had my growth stunted because someone else made more money than i did.

Personally, i think you just rub people the wrong way with the doomsday attitude.

The sky is not falling and their will not be civil unrest. at some point the right person is going to be elected and things will change.

then again, why would anyone be surprised by your attitutde, your avatar says it all.

"Life Sucks, get over it"

For some of us though, life is great.

Edited by Capt Amerika
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ian hacktorp

Is there a cure for "Stockholm Syndrome"?

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Br Cornelius

Then why is it that in America, Poverty has been redifined so much that it now means you can only afford the basic cable for your 40 inch flatscreen and that the mobile plan may have limited speeds during peak hours and the car your driving is a compact thats 5 years old?

When i was growing up, and in poverty, we drove cars that were 20 years old, had one landline, and our black and white tv only received broadcast channels for free.

all other money went to pay bills.

I have worked my way up from that to be a succesful middle class person and am happy as can be.

Now my kids will get a better start than i had and their kids the same etc....

That is how you get to be in the 1% someday, you dont plan on doing it in a generation.

I may have a less than savory Govt, they may give rich people more than they deserve at tax time but in the end

I Love my country and all the opportunities its afforded me.

I have not been held back or had my growth stunted because someone else made more money than i did.

Personally, i think you just rub people the wrong way with the doomsday attitude.

The sky is not falling and their will not be civil unrest. at some point the right person is going to be elected and things will change.

then again, why would anyone be surprised by your attitutde, your avatar says it all.

"Life Sucks, get over it"

For some of us though, life is great.

Tell that to the recently homeless middle classes.

(Reuters) - Across the United States, the number of hungry and homeless people is growing, and budget fights at the federal level are threatening the aid many need to survive, the U.S. Conference of Mayors said on Thursday.

Amidst the holiday season of family feasts and corporate dinners, the mayors released a report that found requests for emergency food assistance rose in 21 out of the 25 cities it surveyed in 2012 and remained at the same level in three. More than half the cities said homelessness increased.

"This report is a stark reminder of the long-lasting impact the recession has had on many of our citizens," Greg Fischer, mayor of Louisville, Kentucky, said in a statement. "Families, who once lived in middle class homes, now find themselves without a roof over their heads, needing multiple social services for the first time in their lives."

The 25 cities are of varying size and wealth in all regions of the country. They included Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Los Angeles, Salt Lake City and Nashville, Tennessee.

Among those seeking emergency food, 51 percent were in families and 37 percent were employed. Nearly 1 in 6 - 17 percent - were elderly and 8.5 percent were homeless, according to the survey.

Nearly all of the cities reported a rise in the number of people seeking emergency food for the first time.

"In Philadelphia, I see people who are hungry and in need of shelter on a daily basis and explaining to them that Congress is cutting funding for the help they need is not acceptable," said Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/20/us-usa-economy-hunger-idUSBRE8BJ14I20121220

I think you live in a dream land since you don't seem to live in the real America. What cool aid are you drinking, the type that makes you fly :tu:

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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ian hacktorp

Pfft...give those people a 40-inch flatscreen and a used car. Problem solved.

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Einsteinium

If you are intelligent and willing to work hard, you can move up the social ladder in America. All it takes is unceasing dedication, brilliant maneuvering from job to job and brilliantly keeping yourself educated and re-training when needed to keep up with technology. It simply requires one to put off having children until one's career is up to the level they want it to be, one must save and invest and not blow money on things one cannot afford. One must plan for hard times. One must be smart in how one invests, keep an eye on the market, learn the market. One must take advantage of compound interest, and one must put off having fun now, so one can have a better shot at being well-off in the future.

"live like no one else now, so that you can live like no one else later"

Sound hard? That's because it is.

Think you deserve the same shot as people who do these things, when you do not do these things? No. You don't.

Think it's 'not fair' that's because life is not fair, no system will be fair.

Think your neighbor had it easier than you, because their parents had money to help them? Well, they did have it easier, try hard so your kids might have it easier too.

Think the system is rigged against you, that the rich conspire to stay rich, and that they conspire to keep the poor, poor? Well, get involved, get informed, VOTE, get involved in your community The system is the way it is because people let it get that way

No, the govt. cannot save you nor should it. No, socialism is not going to make this country better. You CAN work hard and make it, but it is NOT easy, and it is becoming harder. There is chance involved, luck. But that is just life. Do not fight the natural way of things, learn to seek opportunity in how the natural way works.

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Br Cornelius

There are many ways to organise a society. There is nothing implicitly "natural" about the way it is currently organized. It is the consequence of a long series of human choices and interventions to shape the way things work into a particular form.

It doesn't work for an increasing minority of people. Society is about serving the needs of its citizens - otherwise it is not a society.

People need to start asking themselves what is life about, what do we need to be happy, doe you need to be aspiring to be the next big thing. To base a whole way of life around aquisitivness and envy and greed is a certain receipy for almost everyone ending up miserable and poor.

These are all decision which have been made and can be remade to serve better ends.

Br Cornelius

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Einsteinium

There are many ways to organise a society. There is nothing implicitly "natural" about the way it is currently organized. It is the consequence of a long series of human choices and interventions to shape the way things work into a particular form.

It doesn't work for an increasing minority of people. Society is about serving the needs of its citizens - otherwise it is not a society.

People need to start asking themselves what is life about, what do we need to be happy, doe you need to be aspiring to be the next big thing. To base a whole way of life around aquisitivness and envy and greed is a certain receipy for almost everyone ending up miserable and poor.

These are all decision which have been made and can be remade to serve better ends.

Br Cornelius

I agree that we do need to re-evaluate where we are at as a society and where we want to go. We need to look at what ends our society values, does our society value happiness? Wealth? What is rewarded and what is being punished in our society? How can we encourage and motivate the unhappy to drive towards happiness for themselves? We need to do this as a society, govt. cannot force us to change our ways. Govt. does not need to be the thing that starts or forces this change, it has to be a grassroots change at the individual level moving outwards broadly.

What I meant by 'the natural way of things' is that in nature the animal that carries the biggest stick, be it brute force or intelligence, succeeds. No animal is kept alive in nature for its weakness, only for its strength. Any system that we create that tries to defy the system of nature, namely- survival of the fittest. Will be a system that by design is just waiting to die on the vine.

Edited by Einsteinium

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Br Cornelius

Human society is about caring for all members of that society - because they have a role to play.

People are nurtured and its not just about survival of the fittest - that is a distortion of human nature.

Br Cornelius

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Einsteinium

Human society is about caring for all members of that society - because they have a role to play.

People are nurtured and its not just about survival of the fittest - that is a distortion of human nature.

Br Cornelius

No it is not, not at a societal level. Throughout human history civilizations have gone to war, the society with the strongest/smartest war machine has always conquered weaker peoples. The Europeans conquered the Native Americans giving rise to the USA. Ancient Rome conquered numerous states to become the vast empire that it was. Human history has always been one of a stronger force conquering a weaker force. Societies are shaped by these victories and losses. Whole civilizations have been wiped out, entire nations have risen and fallen by this standard. You either do not understand this fundamental truth about human history, or you are simply choosing to not take it into consideration.

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Br Cornelius

No it is not, not at a societal level. Throughout human history civilizations have gone to war, the society with the strongest/smartest war machine has always conquered weaker peoples. The Europeans conquered the Native Americans giving rise to the USA. Ancient Rome conquered numerous states to become the vast empire that it was. Human history has always been one of a stronger force conquering a weaker force. Societies are shaped by these victories and losses. Whole civilizations have been wiped out, entire nations have risen and fallen by this standard. You either do not understand this fundamental truth about human history, or you are simply choosing to not take it into consideration.

Societies do not survive and prosper unless they create supportive and interdependent social structures. National solidarity is about ensuring the the society as a whole is healthy enough to give that society a sustainable future. Throughout mans history there is ample evidence that society has supported and nurtured its members in times of illness and hardship - this is the rule - not the exception.

Really its about balance - but at the moment there is little real balance. We live in fractured cells as individuals divided from our society and the consequence is an epidemic of mental illness.

It is true to say that you cannot substitute wealthfare for real "society" - but when society is all but totally broken as a social institution it is an essential prop to prevent total anarchy.

Competition has its place - but it is only a relatively small part of the overall mix.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Einsteinium

Societies do not survive and prosper unless they create supportive and interdependent social structures. National solidarity is about ensuring the the society as a whole is healthy enough to give that society a sustainable future. Throughout mans history there is ample evidence that society has supported and nurtured its members in times of illness and hardship - this is the rule - not the exception.

Really its about balance - but at the moment there is little real balance. We live in fractured cells as individuals divided from our society and the consequence is an epidemic of mental illness.

It is true to say that you cannot substitute wealthfare for real "society" - but when society is all but totally broken as a social institution it is an essential prop to prevent total anarchy.

Competition has its place - but it is only a relatively small part of the overall mix.

Br Cornelius

I agree that as a society we need to take care of the ill and help those experiencing hardship, but we also need to cut off the cancerous tumors that grow on society. Communism comes to mind, tumors of horrible idea's that become cancers sucking away the lifeblood of society. Our system should be one that rewards the behaviors that have lead to the greatest achievements and understandings of mankind, and punish or the very least not reward activities that lead to the degradation of society. People who become dependent on government handouts are a very real phenomenon that accompanies the idea's of socialism and communism for example, a phenomenon that degrades all of society.

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F3SS

Society is about serving the needs of others:

That increasing minority is is increasingly dependent on being served instead of serving.

Societies do not survive and prosper unless they create supportive and interdependent social structures:

America has that o'plenty. We spend literally billions every year on supporting those that can't or won't support themselves. It's bred more laziness and self-entitlement attitudes than it has bred prosperity and success. It's been around a long time. It ain't freakin working. It's beginning to break the backs of those who do the work. I'm not entirely against those things. All I'm asking for is accountability and fiscal responsibility. You can't spend your way into prosperity and you can't provide for people to ensure prosperity.

And a world without competitionis a world of mediocrity and monopolies. Competition is everything when it comes to innovation and success.

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F3SS

Einstein, no punishment for degradation unless it's criminal. No rewards are the answer. A helping hand can/should only extend so far. If you're between 18-65 and in general good health there has to be some serious limits on government assistance.

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Br Cornelius

I agree that as a society we need to take care of the ill and help those experiencing hardship, but we also need to cut off the cancerous tumors that grow on society. Communism comes to mind, tumors of horrible idea's that become cancers sucking away the lifeblood of society. Our system should be one that rewards the behaviors that have lead to the greatest achievements and understandings of mankind, and punish or the very least not reward activities that lead to the degradation of society. People who become dependent on government handouts are a very real phenomenon that accompanies the idea's of socialism and communism for example, a phenomenon that degrades all of society.

Communism guaranteed a job for everyone - and delivered. That's not quite your characterization though is it.

Communism is not the solution ... but neither is parody.

Br Cornelius

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F3SS

Then how come immigrants weren't flocking by the millions for the Soviet Union and China if communism is such a job paradise?

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Br Cornelius

Tell me, really, honestly, could America offer a living wage job to all its citizens at this moment in time with its current economic system ?

Be honest now and ease off on the demonizing rhetoric. Unless you have a cure for Americas ill's that actually addresses the real issues its just angry hot air.

Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

Then how come immigrants weren't flocking by the millions for the Soviet Union and China if communism is such a job paradise?

I am not a fan of communism and its obvious inadequacies, but it addressed a real issue which America is fairly woefully to deal with. There is nothing admirable about the example that your country is setting the world and you should realize that and try to think about something a little better for yourselves.

Br Cornelius

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F3SS

Tell me, really, honestly, could America offer a living wage job to all its citizens at this moment in time with its current economic system ?

Be honest now and ease off on the demonizing rhetoric. Unless you have a cure for Americas ill's that actually addresses the real issues its just angry hot air.

Br Cornelius

Probably not. Is there a country that has 100% employment rates? Do 100% of those jobs scoff at minimum wage?

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Einsteinium

Einstein, no punishment for degradation unless it's criminal. No rewards are the answer. A helping hand can/should only extend so far. If you're between 18-65 and in general good health there has to be some serious limits on government assistance.

Agreed. I should have worded it as such. Punishment should only be reserved for criminal behaviors. But behavior that unnecessarily drains society should NOT be rewarded.

Cornelius- Sure communism provided everyone with a job, even if it was sweeping the streets by hand, but that is not what I want out of society. We have seen where that road leads, and it does not lead towards innovation, achievement, or wealth equality. I want equal opportunity, not equal pay or equal employment, but equal opportunity to increase my pay, to become employed.

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Br Cornelius

Probably not. Is there a country that has 100% employment rates? Do 100% of those jobs scoff at minimum wage?

Minimum wage is not a living wage for most people and to aspire to a country which pays minimum wage is woeful and an admission of abject failure as a society.

Br Cornelius

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Einsteinium

Tell me, really, honestly, could America offer a living wage job to all its citizens at this moment in time with its current economic system ?

Be honest now and ease off on the demonizing rhetoric. Unless you have a cure for Americas ill's that actually addresses the real issues its just angry hot air.

Br Cornelius

It cannot, and point me to a country that can offer a living wage to all of its citizens. I am offering a cure to America's ills- simplify the system, get rid of unnecessary waste. Get rid of the instruments that are allowing for massive corruption in politics- super PACS for one. Make the system as transparent as possible. We have a right to know where our tax dollars are going. Make welfare about helping people find employment and helping to train people, not a permanent check-in-the mail system. Let businesses and people fail, get rid of unnecessary regulations. Basically reward the right things, and stop rewarding the wrong things.

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F3SS

Minimum wage is not a living wage for most people and to aspire to a country which pays minimum wage is woeful and an admission of abject failure as a society.

Br Cornelius

We have minimum wage jobs for minimum wage talent. I worked in a grocery store for several years. There is not a lot of brainpower involved in bagging groceries. There are opportunities abound in the USA. You want to earn a living wage? Aspire to a job or position that has more requirements than being 16 years old. Folks like you that demand an imaginary "living wage" for all jobs never realize that as soon as employers have to start forking out these living wages the cost of everything goes up accordingly and all of the sudden that living wage is once again a bare bones living.

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F3SS

It cannot, and point me to a country that can offer a living wage to all of its citizens. I am offering a cure to America's ills- simplify the system, get rid of unnecessary waste. Get rid of the instruments that are allowing for massive corruption in politics- super PACS for one. Make the system as transparent as possible. We have a right to know where our tax dollars are going. Make welfare about helping people find employment and helping to train people, not a permanent check-in-the mail system. Let businesses and people fail, get rid of unnecessary regulations. Basically reward the right things, and stop rewarding the wrong things.

Too bad I can't press the like button all day long. I think a country where you can be poor, literally not work for years or longer and can still have a car, a phone, food, cigarettes, cable and television and more is a pretty damn good place to be poor in.

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Br Cornelius

We have minimum wage jobs for minimum wage talent. I worked in a grocery store for several years. There is not a lot of brainpower involved in bagging groceries. There are opportunities abound in the USA. You want to earn a living wage? Aspire to a job or position that has more requirements than being 16 years old. Folks like you that demand an imaginary "living wage" for all jobs never realize that as soon as employers have to start forking out these living wages the cost of everything goes up accordingly and all of the sudden that living wage is once again a bare bones living.

There are more graduate's packing groceries than you would care to imagine. You imagine opportunities which simply do not exist.

Unemployment runs across all sectors of society regardless of training and aspiration.

You really have a very simplified view of the world.

Br Cornelius

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Br Cornelius

Too bad I can't press the like button all day long. I think a country where you can be poor, literally not work for years or longer and can still have a car, a phone, food, cigarettes, cable and television and more is a pretty damn good place to be poor in.

Carry on telling that the the homeless collecting charity food boxes. Your spouting verbatum an exaggerated rhetoric designed to make you hate those less fortunate than yourself.

There maybe people like you say - but they are certainly not the rule and certainly not the boggy man the Republicans are painting them as.

Br Cornelius

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