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Ex-Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher dies


Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Hmm, but how can you say that without qualifying that statement with the fact that successive governments prior to hers killed of manufacturing too by failing to invest in it? She hammered the nail in coffin for many manufacturing communities, that can't be denied, but to imply her policies alone did this are not true.

She stood at the crossroads of history and she made all the easy choices which lined her own pocket and those of her cronies. She could have set the country on a sound footing with a meaningful industrial policy.

She started wars and supported dictators, she destroyed the rights of workers and ushered in generation of low wage employment.

Instead of making the hard strategic choices which would have seen the whole country prosper she frittered away the bonanza of North Sea Oil and acted to concentrate the wealth of the nation in a tiny corner of the country and to betray those she left behind in Grantham.

She was a very malign influence on the country.

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For those who dont know Maggies government inherited a failing economy when she first got elected and took measures to reform it.

Many areas of our mining, steel and heavy manufacturing industry only existed because of trade barriers making imports more costly. They had all been made vastly inefficent and expensive by unions and werent up to the job of competing on equal ground with foreign corporations. She privitised them and took us into the EU. Those industries which refused to adapt quite rightfully went bust.

The winner was the consumer as the cost of things was reduced although it made all the socialists hate her guts. If she hadnt done it then we would have gone bust.

You think there were and are winners,look at todays Britain,it is her lasting legacy and one she didn't want to be remembered for.

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She stood at the crossroads of history and she made all the easy choices which lined her own pocket and those of her cronies. She could have set the country on a sound footing with a meaningful industrial policy.

She started wars and supported dictators, she destroyed the rights of workers and ushered in generation of low wage employment.

Instead of making the hard strategic choices which would have seen the whole country prosper she frittered away the bonanza of North Sea Oil and acted to concentrate the wealth of the nation in a tiny corner of the country and to betray those she left behind in Grantham.

She was a very malign influence on the country.

Well that's one side of the picture, and i'm not a tory so i'm not arguing their cause here - both my parents were labour voters during her reign.

You didn't really answer my point though - successive governments prior to hers failed to invest in the manufacturing sector, did they not?

Also, do you agree that you don't close (or pull the rug out from) successful businesses?

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Well that's one side of the picture, and i'm not a tory so i'm not arguing their cause here - both my parents were labour voters during her reign.

You didn't really answer my point though - successive governments prior to hers failed to invest in the manufacturing sector, did they not?

Also, do you agree that you don't close (or pull the rug out from) successful businesses?

There was a real problem with the industrial base in that it was geared towards selling to the captive market of the Empire. It needed significant restructuring and everything that Thatcher did was attempted by the previous labour government. The Unions were stupid and short sightened and needed taking in hand.

However there was still a very real opportunity to use what we had to restructure the industrial base and use the oil money to build a long term future. Germany did it twice in much worse circumstances than Britain was ever in. She took the choice of greed and cronyism by imagining that simply having money flow through the South East would support a nation. She was strategically wrong and vicious in her implementation. She engaged in class warfare when we needed a leader who could pull the nation together to meet the challenges of a new century.

She was the very definition of a bad leader on every front as far as I am concerned.

Br Cornelius

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For those who dont know Maggies government inherited a failing economy when she first got elected and took measures to reform it.

Many areas of our mining, steel and heavy manufacturing industry only existed because of trade barriers making imports more costly. They had all been made vastly inefficent and expensive by unions and werent up to the job of competing on equal ground with foreign corporations. She privitised them and took us into the EU. Those industries which refused to adapt quite rightfully went bust.

The winner was the consumer as the cost of things was reduced although it made all the socialists hate her guts. If she hadnt done it then we would have gone bust.

The winner was multinational corporations who farm out labour to India and China in order to produce the things that used to be produced in-house. Does that sound like any kind of economic or strategic logic at all to you?

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RIP Ma'am.

(Cue celebratory ranting from Lefties, the workshy and assorted Bolsheviks!)

Is it only me who finds it ironic that the Liberal Left, who have laboured tirelessly for years to turn almost every conceivable action, thought and deed perpetrated by those who dare to oppose them, into some kind of hate crime, are themselves the most vociferous of all when it comes to dishing out venom by the bucket-load when it suits them?

Lady Thatcher was the greatest politician of our time. History will judge her well. people go on about her tackling the Unions, shutting down industry, standing against the EU. but look at where the UK was in the 1970's under a Labour government. total economic melt down, mainly due to strike action from the Unions. we had the three day week, the power cuts, the winter of discontent. we was the sick man of europe. we had to borrow money from the IMF. the cold hard reality was Britain was failing. we was in decline and not even managing the decline. at least when Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister and the longest serving in the 20th Century - she tackled head on the tough issues of the day, - hard decisions never shied away from. when she left office after being stabbed in the back she left a better Britain than she inherited and you cannot ask for more than that - people can talk about the miners and other industries etc.. the truth was all these nationalised industries, were highly unprofitable and heavily subsidised by the tax payer - they were failing and out dated.

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There was a real problem with the industrial base in that it was geared towards selling to the captive market of the Empire. It needed significant restructuring and everything that Thatcher did was attempted by the previous labour government. The Unions were stupid and short sightened and needed taking in hand.

However there was still a very real opportunity to use what we had to restructure the industrial base and use the oil money to build a long term future. Germany did it twice in much worse circumstances than Britain was ever in. She took the choice of greed and cronyism by imagining that simply having money flow through the South East would support a nation. She was strategically wrong and vicious in her implementation. She engaged in class warfare when we needed a leader who could pull the nation together to meet the challenges of a new century.

She was the very definition of a bad leader on every front as far as I am concerned.

Br Cornelius

Fair enough :tu:

I started my working life the year she left office so have no direct experience of her leadership.

I hear different views about her even from within the same people (not you obviously lol)...18% interest rates, shutting unprofitable pits, privitisation etc.....then there's 1 million extra home owners, a rise in shares ownership, womens pay rising to it's highest level.....etc.....

She certainly splits opinion...

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I'll save my party poppers for Tony Bliar. Ive lived through both & he has by far the larger body count.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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I must confess that I don't know much about her(I'm old enough, just don't follow politics all the time)

My general impression, for or against her opinions, is that she was one "gutsy" lady. I can appreciate tenacity.

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Many here speak about our numerous politicians who are friends to big business, banks, the EU. These politicians are the scum of the earth and not a singe poster in this thread would disagree with this analysis. Yet here we have a woman who was by FAR the biggest lackey for banks, big business, AND the EU that our nation has seen since the Second World War (ever, when it comes to the EU), yet there are actually people defending her? It beggars belief. Stunning.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Many here speak about our numerous politicians who are friends to big business, banks, the EU. These politicians are the scum of the earth and not a singe poster in this thread would disagree with this analysis. Yet here we have a woman who was by FAR the biggest lackey for banks, big business, AND the EU that our nation has seen since the Second World War (ever, when it comes to the EU), yet there are actually people defending her? It beggars belief. Stunning.

And under whos watch did the banks pocket 130billion of tax payers money?

p.s. I was listening to this on the car radio on the way home from work & couldn't help but laugh when the beeb sought a less than flattering appraisal of the Thatcher years...& who did they ask? Derek Hatton, Gerry Adams & Neil Kinnock. three people i'd gladly see thrown out of a helicopter.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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And under whos watch did the banks pocket 130billion of tax payers money?

And under whos watch did the banks pocket 130billion of tax payers money?

Why did they have to - deregulation. The BIG BANG was Thatchers NeoLiberal wheeze.

Br Cornelius

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And under whos watch did the banks pocket 130billion of tax payers money?

p.s. I was listening to this on the car radio on the way home from work & couldn't help but laugh when the beeb sought a less than flattering appraisal of the Thatcher years...& who did they ask? Derek Hatton, Gerry Adams & Neil Kinnock. three people i'd gladly see thrown out of a helicopter.

What's so laughable about that? Since they were three of her biggest political adversaries, at least as Leopoldo Galtieri is no longer around, it's no more laughable than asking the Duke of Wellington for his opinion about Napoleon.

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Why did they have to - deregulation. The BIG BANG was Thatchers NeoLiberal wheeze.

Br Cornelius

"Gordon Brown admits 'big mistake' over banking crisis"

"Gordon Brown has admitted he made a "big mistake" over the handling of financial regulation in the run-up to the banking crisis of 2008.

The former prime minister told a US conference he had not realised the "entanglements" of global institutions.

He said: "We set up the FSA [the City regulator] believing the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution. That was the big mistake.

"We didn't understand just how entangled things were."

Mr Brown said he had to "accept my responsibility" but added he was not the only one who had made mistakes."

"We know in retrospect what we missed. We set up the Financial Services Authority (FSA) believing that the problem would come from the failure of an individual institution," he said.

"So we created a monitoring system which was looking at individual institutions. That was the big mistake.

LINK :- http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-13032013

Whilst the Left Wing mention Thatcher loosening the rules, which she did, Gordon Brown took the powers from the Bank Of England and created the fantastically inept FSA to oversee them. The FSA was fully funded by the banks themselves yet was supposedly independent.

The Bank Of England was warning Labour about the levels of personal debt in the UK from the early 2000's. Labour and the FSA totally ignored the advice. The Bank Of England would have prevented the ridiculous rise in house prices that fed the credit lines. Labour encouraged it, to continue the feelgood factor, and to prevent the inevitable bust that Brown said he wouldn't allow too happen again, "no return to boom and bust" The FSA sat back and let their paymasters earn fortunes and earn fortunes in bonuses, these are facts only the deluded choose to ignore them.

Thatcher deregulated them, but the Bank Of England enforced good business practice. The FSA didn't and because of this we have the mess we have now.

Wiki :-

Since 1997 the Labour governments of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown developed a programme of better regulation. This included a general programme for government departments to review, simplify or abolish their existing regulations, and a "one in, one out" approach to new regulations. In 1997, The Chancellor of the Exchequer announced the deregulation of the banks and other financial institutions. They freed the Bank of England from direct government control and removed the power by the Bank of England (and therefore by the government) from controlling the financial activities of banks in the UK

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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You think there were and are winners,look at todays Britain,it is her lasting legacy and one she didn't want to be remembered for.

So a woman who lost power 23 years ago is to blame for todays problems?

Thats mature and unbiased.

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And under whos watch did the banks pocket 130billion of tax payers money?

p.s. I was listening to this on the car radio on the way home from work & couldn't help but laugh when the beeb sought a less than flattering appraisal of the Thatcher years...& who did they ask? Derek Hatton, Gerry Adams & Neil Kinnock. three people i'd gladly see thrown out of a helicopter.

Hey, I'm not sticking up for any politician, but your reply more or less supports my post. You're having a go about politicians that bailed the banks out, yet (as others have stated) it was Thatcher's deregulation of the banks that helped pave the way for the idiotic banking of the last 20 years. And this is my point: people sing the praises of Thatcher yet quite vocally hate other politicians who aren't actually any worse than she was. There seems to be a blinding double standard.

Personally I hate all of the leaders we've had, left and right (and even believe that those on the "left" side have been worse for the World overall). I'm not having a go at Thatcher while absolving more recent leaders. I'm just trying to make people realise that she was a bigger friend to big business, banks and the EU than any who have come after. She paved the way, is what I'm getting at.

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The winner was multinational corporations who farm out labour to India and China in order to produce the things that used to be produced in-house. Does that sound like any kind of economic or strategic logic at all to you?

When we look at how Britain differentiates itself we find the following problems -

1. Britain isnt one of the worlds most technologically advanced nations so it cant compete by offering the most advanced products.

2. Britain doesnt have cheap labour and low overheads for businesses so it cant compete by offering the cheapest products.

3. Britain doesnt have large amounts of agricultural land so it cant compete by being one of the worlds bread baskets.

The only way we can earn a living is by offering banking and financial services unless we are going to resort to protectionist policies.

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So a woman who lost power 23 years ago is to blame for todays problems?

Thats mature and unbiased.

She Started the Ball rolling,deregulation and Privatisation,she also transformed the UK into a manufacturing wasteland.

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2. Britain doesnt have cheap labour and low overheads for businesses so it cant compete by offering the cheapest products.

Maybe the UK should be more like China,factories that have nets up to prevent employees committing suicide,pay the workers 300 dollars a month and make them pee in a hole in the floor with no toilet paper.Whilst we are at it we should let them see their families for a couple of days a year.

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She Started the Ball rolling,deregulation and Privatisation,she also transformed the UK into a manufacturing wasteland.

As opposed to the manufacturing power house it was in the 70's.....oh wait......maybe not.....

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Nice to see the good old Beeb is still on the ball though, isnt it?.......

http://www.dailymail...-announced.html

They wish!

Arthur Scargill getting his revenge at last?

That's quite an amusing typo, you have to admit.

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She Started the Ball rolling,deregulation and Privatisation,she also transformed the UK into a manufacturing wasteland.

See my post no.64. (and read it)

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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See my post no.64. (and read it)

I don't need to read anything I lived in Thatchers Britain and i stand by what i say.

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