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Ex-Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher dies


Daughter of the Nine Moons
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Because of the shambles the alternative was, that's why no one has tried replicating it. State owned services, lack of inspiration, inflated governments patting you on the head telling you "don't worry, we'll hold your hand and look after you"....it's a model that stifles initiative, and makes people look at the government for answers, rather then grabbing the bull by the horns and making their own luck....

I hope in my lifetime we never return to those ways, that mentality.....the worlds moved on. I want tiny governments, concerned with just a few things, Nhs, Defence, minimal regulation....other then that I just want them stay out my life.

There are alternative - just the British have never taken any of them seriously.

It sound like a stuck record, but look at the trajectory of the scandinavian countries, the Benelux countries and Germany. They have all fared far better in terms of long term stability and national prosperity over the same period - and they have faced challenges which put those of Britian in the Shade. Post war reconstruction, division and reunification. They came out stronger rather than weaker.

The UK is a stuck record of class warfare going on over generations, and we are all the losers because no one has ever really sat back and drawn up a strategic plan for what would be good for the country and all its citizens. The UK has always fallen into political stereotypes rather than looking at the fundaments and solving them.

I call that national stupidity and greedy self interest on a national level.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Guest
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There are alternative - just the British have never taken any of them seriously.

It sound like a stuck record, but look at the trajectory of the scandinavian countries, the Benelux countries and Germany. They have all fared far better in terms of long term stability and national prosperity over the same period - and they have faced challenges which put those of Britian in the Shade. Post war reconstruction, division and reunification. They came out stronger rather than weaker.

The UK is a stuck record of class warfare going on over generations, and we are all the losers because no one has ever really sat back and drawn up a strategic plan for what would be good for the country and all its citizens. The UK has always fallen into political stereotypes rather than looking at the fundaments and solving them.

I call that national stupidity and greedy self interest on a national level.

Br Cornelius

I don't actually diagree with much of that....other then i'd dispute that 'self interest' is necessary the dirty word it's being painted as. Everyone should want better for themselves, and if that is classed as selfish then so be it....

My cousins are 15 and 20yrs older then me....they still hark back to 'job for life' time, when you followed your fathers footsteps...he worked in the mill, you followed suit. That is selling the individual short imo, 40yrs man and boy in the same back breakjing job, cause that's how it always was....people aren't pushed into that same mentality now, sure it's hard to make it in the world now, but by the same token you have more opportunity to make it....an individuals level of success is now determined by their own level of determination, rather then then their standing in society.

Our current system has many many flaws....and some of what you advocate would help put us on a more stable footing....leaping to far one way or the other though is bad for everyone in the long run though.

Edited by Sky Scanner
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You would think that if her policies were so damaging to society at large, then the next labour government would have immediately reversed them.....how many of her policies did they reverse again?

Of course not, they saw how successful they were in gathering Votes. But as discussed earlier, policies that appeal to Voters in the short term (lower taxes & stand firm against that handy scapegoat, Foreigners) are not necessarily those that are wisest in the long term, or fair for the People as a whole.

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Of course not, they saw how successful they were in gathering Votes. But as discussed earlier, policies that appeal to Voters in the short term (lower taxes & stand firm against that handy scapegoat, Foreigners) are not necessarily those that are wisest in the long term, or fair for the People as a whole.

So what you're saying is that Labour will do anything to get into power.......we already know that.

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I saw the movie ONLY because I really like Meryl Streep.

As for Thatcher herself, good riddance!

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Her legacy is public division, private selfishness and a cult of greed that together shackle the human spirit.

Jft 96

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She did Good things, and she did Bad things... A typical Politician.

She pretty much destroyed UK Heavy Industry (UK Govt owned), but it was the price to pay to break the back of the Union Stranglehold on the Country (anyone remember the Winter of Discontent, I do?). The Unions (back in the day) ensured that the progeny of a Loyal Union Member would also receive a Job For Life ahead of anyone else irrespective of ability.... clearly Nepotism at work. The Poll Tax (her ultimate undoing) sending Pensioners to Jail, massive unemployment, the selling off of Council Housing stock and the moratorium on new Council House building has led to a crisis today in Social Housing needs. Also, the massive expansion of Financial Institutions in The City that are so inflated (a la Cyprus) to become the next Financial Crisis, the massive underinvestment in Technology and Innovation that SHE promoted.

On balance, I think her terms in Office were tinged with complete incompetence in future proofing the Nation that she led.

No tears here

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She made tough choices that had good and bad effects, the same can be said for any leader. Fact was she was elected, multiple times. Thats demoracy, if you dont like it feel free to go live in North Korea.

I am sure she was aware of the negatove impacts he choices had, and she paid for them with the scorn and ridicule of much of the British population.

I see no need to revel in her death like some blood drunk savage.

Democracy???? The people of Scotland never voted for her, she was forced upon us by the english voters

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Democracy???? The people of Scotland never voted for her, she was forced upon us by the english voters

The people of England NEVER voted for Alex Salmond... he was forced on us by the Scots!! Last I looked, Scotland is NOT an Independent Nation therefore your votes count as well. English MP's are not allowed to vote on Scottish matters, but Scottish MP's ARE allowed to vote on English / Welsh Matters... that is completely wrong... you force your views on all of us :w00t:

Edited by keithisco
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She Started the Ball rolling,deregulation and Privatisation,she also transformed the UK into a manufacturing wasteland.

industry survives if its profitable. back in the 1970's we was subsidising industry to manufacture goods the world didn't want or need. like building cars the British didnt even want.

As a Politician, she has to be judged by what she did. On this point, i just heard on the news mr. david Cameroon's fulsome eulogy, among which was that she helped win the Cold War. This is somehting that many others have also given her plaudits for. How did she, exactly? By standing shoulder to shoulder with Ron? By letting the Americans station Missiles in the UK? i.e. was her contribution to winning the Cold War just to let the Americans do whatever they wanted?

And besides, did the West win the Cold War at all? Was it not because the USSR was crumbling from within, exacerbated by Gorby's "reforms" (and there's someone who's another, as has been discussed in the Obama Peace Prize thread, who's adored in the west, but whose legacy was basically to destroy his own country. Really, what he did was tantamount to treason, but this is probably wandering off course a little now), and because the cost of the the clearup after Chernobyl virtually bankrupted the USSR?

It was Thatcher who spotted business could be done with Gorbachev and convinced Regan, American armed forces have been based in the UK since the end of WWII. basing missiles here was nothing new. Thatchers stance on the Falklands War was one of the greatest demonstrations that NATO. had a member besides the USA that could project force. this coming from the Russians themselves. either way the three - Regan, Thatcher and Gorbachev brought a thaw to the cold war. one of the great political achievements of the 20th century.

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Democracy???? The people of Scotland never voted for her, she was forced upon us by the english voters

Dont like it? Vote to become independant. Once again, Democracy.

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I'm curious what would be the political effect if the Scotts were no longer in Parliament.

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The people of England NEVER voted for Alex Salmond... he was forced on us by the Scots!! Last I looked, Scotland is NOT an Independent Nation therefore your votes count as well. English MP's are not allowed to vote on Scottish matters, but Scottish MP's ARE allowed to vote on English / Welsh Matters... that is completely wrong... you force your views on all of us :w00t:

Scotlands economy would collapse if it declared independance.

This is because the North Sea oil reserves would be shared out between Scotland and the UK (probably based on population size) instead of it all coming through Aberdeen. Scotlands GDP would quickly plummet from £124 billion to something laughingly low as most of the engineering and industry in Aberdeen which has grown up around oil imports closes or relocates to England.

At 5 million people they are too small to fight any future wars, they wouldnt have nuclear weapons and the rest of the UK would no longer carry it with the social state. I'd give it 10 years and they'd be third world (like they used to be) and begging to be let back in the UK.

Edited by Giant Killer B
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I'm aware of Scotland's problems, but my question has to do with the effect on English politics. It strikes me the Tories would be delighted and Labor no so happy, but I'm not really sure. How do Scottish PMs typically line up?

You do raise an interesting question, though, about the North Sea. Why would it be divided up like that? It lies I would suppose pretty much in Scottish waters. Of course in ten years it will be moot -- as I understand it the supplies are diminishing rapidly.

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The people of England NEVER voted for Alex Salmond... he was forced on us by the Scots!! Last I looked, Scotland is NOT an Independent Nation therefore your votes count as well. English MP's are not allowed to vote on Scottish matters, but Scottish MP's ARE allowed to vote on English / Welsh Matters... that is completely wrong... you force your views on all of us :w00t:

Typical colonial english bull**** ..... the empire is over colonel blimp Freedom will come next year

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I'm aware of Scotland's problems, but my question has to do with the effect on English politics. It strikes me the Tories would be delighted and Labor no so happy, but I'm not really sure. How do Scottish PMs typically line up?

You do raise an interesting question, though, about the North Sea. Why would it be divided up like that? It lies I would suppose pretty much in Scottish waters. Of course in ten years it will be moot -- as I understand it the supplies are diminishing rapidly.

Scotland doesnt own the North Sea or its oil reserves.

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Scotland doesnt own the North Sea or its oil reserves.

I wonder if the Scotts see it that way. I guess no one understand the Parliament well enough to tell me what the withdrawal of the Scottish MPs would mean, as I've asked a couple times now.

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Typical colonial english bull**** ..... the empire is over colonel blimp Freedom will come next year

Yea, good luck with that.

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Yea, good luck with that.

Cant be any worse than it was under Thatcher

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Scotland doesnt own the North Sea or its oil reserves.

Aye, Norway be the masters of those reserves.

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Scotland doesnt own the North Sea or its oil reserves.

We would have a far greater and more legitimate claim than any south of the border. What you seem to be suggesting is that France would have a better claim to it than Britain.

In my opinion Scotland should have went for independence back in the 70s. If they had done so, the North Sea oil would have actually benefited the people, rather than line the pockets of rich oil companies with a measly tax benefiting the government. The McCrone report can be thanked for that. Scotland could have been as self-sufficient as Norway.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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We would have a far greater and more legitimate claim than any south of the border. What you seem to be suggesting is that France would have a better claim to it than Britain.

In my opinion Scotland should have went for independence back in the 70s. If they had done so, the North Sea oil would have actually benefited the people, rather than line the pockets of rich oil companies with a measly tax benefiting the government. The McCrone report can be thanked for that. Scotland could have been as self-sufficient as Norway.

Slightly off topic, but as a side note..

I lived in Aberdeen for a few years, working for a company supplying components for oil rigs in the North Sea, so I got to know quite a few Danish and Norweign oil workers.....I asked them about the amounts left etc, they said don't believe the hype, they're finding more all the time, it just isn't advertised and announced......which was food for thought...

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Slightly off topic, but as a side note..

I lived in Aberdeen for a few years, working for a company supplying components for oil rigs in the North Sea, so I got to know quite a few Danish and Norweign oil workers.....I asked them about the amounts left etc, they said don't believe the hype, they're finding more all the time, it just isn't advertised and announced......which was food for thought...

Aye, it's a common tactic with commodities (but especially oil): spread the word that reserves are low and watch the prices rise. Like diamonds.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Thatcher was terrible, good riddance.

she privatised gas and electric, so now pensioners freeze because they can't pay their bills while french and german companies make millions in profit.

Britain has a severe shortage of social housing because all the council houses were sold off and she didn't allow any new ones to be built.

Ruined industries throughout the country, ie mining, manufacturing.

Encouraged rampant greed with a greed is good philosphy - i'm alright, sod everyone else.

Defended general pinochet, a mass murderer, when he was arrested, only won an eletion because she went to war.

Gave workers in britain the worst protection in europe from ruthless employers.

etc, etc .......

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I wonder if the Scotts see it that way. I guess no one understand the Parliament well enough to tell me what the withdrawal of the Scottish MPs would mean, as I've asked a couple times now.

It would have meant that we'd have been spared gord Brown as prime minister, at least ...

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