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Ex-Prime Minister Baroness Thatcher dies


Daughter of the Nine Moons
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I see that that the rag of a newspaper called the Sun is claiming that Margaret Thatcher has been voted as Britain's best prime minister.With Winston Churchill in 2nd and Blair in 3rd,what a Joke.Thatcher and Blair are not even in the same league as Churchill.Apparently her highest Votes were in the South of England, no surprises there then(large slice of sarcasm).

Edited by shaddow134
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Dave Whelan calling for a silence to be observed at Wigan's game, and others.

Surely it's better for them not to do it at all than for the fans to make a mockery of the gesture by not staying silent.

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Dave Whelan calling for a silence to be observed at Wigan's game, and others.

Surely it's better for them not to do it at all than for the fans to make a mockery of the gesture by not staying silent.

It seems stupid to call for a silence when football is by large the working man's game. Calling for a silence from the people who hate her :D

Anyway, I read that the past two ex-prime ministers to die did not receive a silence, so why should she?

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I have decided watching this and other sources that the British left wing is based on hate and irrationality, not on reason and sensible politics.

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It seems stupid to call for a silence when football is by large the working man's game. Calling for a silence from the people who hate her :D

Anyway, I read that the past two ex-prime ministers to die did not receive a silence, so why should she?

It is kind of Bizarre,She was despised in the North for her war on the Working man,lets hope the Wigan Fans sing loud.

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I have decided watching this and other sources that the British left wing is based on hate and irrationality, not on reason and sensible politics.

When it comes to Thatcher, you'd probably be right (only on the 'hate' though, not the rest). In general? It would be flat-out idiotic to make such a generalisation based simply on a horrible woman who destroyed so many of their lives.

And to be perfectly honest, anyone who adheres to the left/right spheres are the other three. Left/right are like religions. And rationality, reason and sensible politics rarely come into things.

The left/right mentality is like yeast: it's in-bred.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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When Reagan died (her American equivalent) we was accorded all the honor due a former US President, by people of all political persuasions except a few extremists. This is appropriate in any death and for anyone who has held high constitutional office. Politics should take a break.

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When Reagan died (her American equivalent) we was accorded all the honor due a former US President, by people of all political persuasions except a few extremists. This is appropriate in any death and for anyone who has held high constitutional office. Politics should take a break.

No it certainly is not. Should Stalin have been afforded the same, by default? Saddam? I don't think so. A person should be judged on their actions, and not be afforded 'a pass' simply because they were a leader. It's actually quite ridiculous to hear someone try to claim such a thing.

Slightly off-topic but the truth of the matter is that both Thatcher and Reagan, for their actions abroad at least, should have been tried and convicted at the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity due to the amount of innocent civilians of backward countries who were killed as a direct result of their foreign policies. And in actuality, staying within the confines of international laws that the U.S. and Britain more or less created, every Prime Minister and President since WW2 is exactly the same.

Honour them just because they held the position? I'd rather p*** on their graves.

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We would have a far greater and more legitimate claim than any south of the border. What you seem to be suggesting is that France would have a better claim to it than Britain.

In my opinion Scotland should have went for independence back in the 70s. If they had done so, the North Sea oil would have actually benefited the people, rather than line the pockets of rich oil companies with a measly tax benefiting the government. The McCrone report can be thanked for that. Scotland could have been as self-sufficient as Norway.

North Sea oil and Gas. Scotland as an economy as never had the ability to carry out oil exploration. and this is going back to the late 1940's onwards. the United Kingdom as a whole this includes Northern Ireland and Wales also have a rights to the oil as well all do combined. when you think 98% of funding for oil exploration came from all members. Scotland today simply doesn't have a claim even under independence unless it is willing to reimburse the money invested.

Do not listen to Salmond or the SNP. the man is a joke. have you seen the rubbish he comes out with. he doesnt want scotland to house the UK's Sub nuclear base. but he wants no part of Nuclear yet he wants to be part of NATO. so he doesnt mind living under the umbrella of protection of Nuclear. he also made me laugh when he went on about a Scottish defence force. and set about carving up the UK armed forces. thinking he could cherry pick equipment. such as one of the new type 45 destroyers 1Billion pounds worth of Naval might, also thinks he'll get x- amount of tanks etc... the man is a fool. and will damage Scotland. look at the way he held Ireland and Iceland up as Tiger economies, a blue print for a independent scotland. both countries bankrupt. and its a good job Scottish independence didnt come to soon. with the collapse of RBS banking group. you'd have been bankrupt. the Scots have to think long and hard about independence. - just for the record i want Scotland to remain part of the UK. but if the people want independence then i have to accept the wishes of the people. democracy.

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The Scotts would have done what most countries do and leased out the exploration rights to the international oil companies.

I think if the Scotts want independence they should have it and Britain should do all it can to help the baby nation get started, and not go into a tantrum.

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Comparing Reagan and Thatcher to Hussein and Stalin is insane.

I wasn't comparing their actions at all; I was merely pointing out the fallacy that is the argument of 'people should be respected simply because they held a position of power in life'. It's ridiculous.

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The Scotts would have done what most countries do and leased out the exploration rights to the international oil companies.

I think if the Scotts want independence they should have it and Britain should do all it can to help the baby nation get started, and not go into a tantrum.

If the Scots want Independence then let them have it,but at their own expense.

Edited by shaddow134
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It seems stupid to call for a silence when football is by large the working man's game. Calling for a silence from the people who hate her :D

Anyway, I read that the past two ex-prime ministers to die did not receive a silence, so why should she?

It is indeed incredibly stupid, and I'd have thought he'd realise that. He'll realise when the fans are the most vocal they've ever been!

The North East derby is this weekend - there will be riots if they DARE suggest a silence there! It'll be the only time Newcastle and Sunderland fans have ever been so united in anything :D

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If the Scots want Independence then let them have it,but at their own expense.

It seems some of them have other ideas........(having cake and eating it?)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306651/Scotland-expects-Bank-England-bail-split-UK.html

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It seems some of them have other ideas........(having cake and eating it?)

http://www.dailymail...l-split-UK.html

It is known that Alex Salmond plays fantasy Politics, and this is indeed proof.I don't have a problem with Scottish Independence but they should accept the Risk.I'm sure the EEC would gladly bail them out if required.

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It seems some of them have other ideas........(having cake and eating it?)

http://www.dailymail...l-split-UK.html

I'm not sure what the problem is here? This would be a win for the Bank of England, as they would be loans, not charity. There is a lot wrong with Salmond's quest for Robert the Bruce emulation, but this is simply a non-story.

Stevewinn, I'm sure Scotland would have found the finances for their own oil exploration, but I'm not sure that your opinion that the rest of the UK would also still be entitled to the oil holds up. The rights of natural resources are designated territorially, not through those who have explored for them. And besides, I'm pretty sure that all in the UK, even just from the measly tax, have had a net benefit from what was put in to the exploration.

And for the record (as I have stated on here before), I'm neither for nor against independence, my point earlier was simply that it would have been far better and more sensible for Scotland to become independent back in the 70s. And they most likely would have done so if not for the McCrone report being classified (I should note that in an earlier post I made the mistake of blaming the report, rather than the fact that it was immediately classified).

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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Slightly off-topic but the truth of the matter is that both Thatcher and Reagan, for their actions abroad at least, should have been tried and convicted at the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity due to the amount of innocent civilians of backward countries who were killed as a direct result of their foreign policies

Care to provide some examples/facts to base up this assertion.

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I see that that the rag of a newspaper called the Sun is claiming that Margaret Thatcher has been voted as Britain's best prime minister.With Winston Churchill in 2nd and Blair in 3rd,what a Joke.Thatcher and Blair are not even in the same league as Churchill.Apparently her highest Votes were in the South of England, no surprises there then(large slice of sarcasm).

Sorry, that has to be a joke. Leaving aside Maggie, who I suppose the Sun demographic would adore, who on earth voted for Bliar, and on what grounds? Did they explain at all?

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I have decided watching this and other sources that the British left wing is based on hate and irrationality, not on reason and sensible politics.

so what do you call the Sun and the Daily Mail? Even if you may not be familiar with the print version, the online versions, and particularly the comments from readers, would surely illustrate very clearly the attitudes that tend to be held by the readership.

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Care to provide some examples/facts to base up this assertion.

Raegan (and there are so much more than this - just look at U.S. foreign policy from his reign and go 'tick, tick, tick'): supplying Saddam with WMDs (chemical and biological weapons), which were used against the Iranians (as he no doubt knew would be the case) would be the first example I would use. But most importantly, in my opinion, supporting, arming, funding, training and directing the terrorists that devastated Nicaragua - to this day the country has not recovered - killing and raping tens of thousands of people. In fact, if the U.S. had not used their own UN VETO, then he actually would have been convicted of war crimes. But, yeah, basically any dictator, corrupt government or terrorist that his government armed, trained, funded or otherwise supported could have seen him at the Hague.

Thatcher: much the same to be honest. It's a case of take your pick. Every single Prime Minister since the late 60s should be tried for allowing the U.S. to continue to inhabit the Chagos Islands - an act which resulted in thousands of Her Majesty's subjects being ethnically cleansed (war crime) to actual slums. Then there is the '86 bombing of Libya, support of Saddam's war against Iran, open support of the racist South African regime.

Which ever way you look at it, both could and should have been tried for war crimes. And by the same standards of law, so could every other British or U.S. leader since WW2, even the much loved Kennedy. Our combined foreign policies - designed to fill the pockets of the elite of our countries to the detriment of peasants around the world - have been disgusting.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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* Update to the "most Popular PM" story:

Margaret Thatcher is Britain's most popular prime minister since the Second World War, unexpectedly eclipsing even Sir Winston Churchill, a poll found.

Lady Thatcher, who died on Monday at 87 after a series of strokes, was named as the best of the 13 prime ministers since 1945 by 28% of people, the poll conducted by The Sun said.

That puts it in a bit of perspective, perhaps.

Edited by Colonel Rhuairidh
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Good Riddance I say !

I will be raising a pint to the wicked witch of the west.

Good ridence.

Again I say good riddance to her,I despise her.

As for Thatcher herself, good riddance!

Thatcher was terrible, good riddance.

All of the above, you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you disagreed with her policies, the time to celebrate was when she left power not on her death. Can't help thinking the only reason people are trying to vilify her now is because, finally, they might win an argument with her. Frankly, she was too damned clever to argue with in life.

FYI: I'm a Northerner and, although I wasn't around then, so are my parents. The above is a rehash of what they have said today. Also, those saying she destroyed the North East: No, she didn't. She destroyed the power of the unions who were striking without ballots and prevents us ever having another 3 day week. She then negotiated the Nissan contract for the NE which employs more people, in more sustainable, safer and ethically sound jobs than they ever had in the mining industry.

Democracy???? The people of Scotland never voted for her, she was forced upon us by the english voters

See, a democracy works by everyone (including you lot) having the chance to vote. One who has a majority wins. Ergo, your votes were counted, you didn't vote for the winning candidate. Winning candidate became leader, democracy was upheld. Frankly, you are the ones with an unjust approach to politics in Scotland. You want you own parliament but also want to sit on ours. You lower tuition fees for all EU students except England (probably technically illegal). And now, best of all, you want independence but think we should take the financial burden. I hope you get your independence. Holidays in Scotland will be so cheap when your economy collapses.

I wonder if the Scotts see it that way. I guess no one understand the Parliament well enough to tell me what the withdrawal of the Scottish MPs would mean, as I've asked a couple times now.

Basically, most Scottish MPs are labour so if Scotland gets independence, they lose a lot of seats in the House of Commons.

The Scotts would have done what most countries do and leased out the exploration rights to the international oil companies.

I think if the Scotts want independence they should have it and Britain should do all it can to help the baby nation get started, and not go into a tantrum.

Why should we bankroll them if they want to be independent? Should the majority of them vote for independence, then good luck to them but it's none of our concern. If they need money, they can ask the IMF like everyone else or (if they somehow get accepted) join the EU (with their own currency).

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All of the above, you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you disagreed with her policies, the time to celebrate was when she left power not on her death. Can't help thinking the only reason people are trying to vilify her now is because, finally, they might win an argument with her. Frankly, she was too damned clever to argue with in life.

I'm not ashamed to be honest, and I say again good riddance to her.She was loved in the South because she waged war on the Peasants in the North.She turned Towns into Ghost towns,thriving Communities into wastelands.Yeah she took the Unions on, but she drove the final nail into the UK's Industrial coffin In the process.Ask the people of the Mining villages she decimated when her Government left them to rot after she closed down the pits.

Oh and lets not Forget the Hillsborough disaster.

Will they be holding a Minutes silence at Anfield this weekend ?

Now she is dead will the Government release all documents alluding to Hillsborough or will her role in the cover up be buried with her forever.

I make no apologies for my utter disdain for her,to put it politely.

Edited by shaddow134
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All of the above, you should be ashamed of yourselves. If you disagreed with her policies, the time to celebrate was when she left power not on her death. Can't help thinking the only reason people are trying to vilify her now is because, finally, they might win an argument with her. Frankly, she was too damned clever to argue with in life.

of course, she was a Politician. The whole talent and skill of Politicians lies (appropriate word there) in the ability to be clever in argument and be devious with words.

People are trying to vilify her? Surely that's no more than any Politician deserves; politicians are, i think it's fairly safe to say, the most harmful profession ever devised by humanity. Anyone who wants to be a Poltician (by which I mean who wants power and to have control over people, as distinct from those constituency MPs who do genuinely want to represent the interests if the people who vote for them), I'm afraid, automatically forfeits any right to respect simply for being a Politician, since the're declaring, very openly and nakedly, that all they want is Power.

And if her policies led to lasting harm and virtually destroyed the nation's ability to be self sufficient, and to have to depend on virtually everything by buying it from often questionable foreign regimes, this is frankly very near to treason, and so are surely still very much open to criticism.

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