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White Crane Feather

How to stop zealotry?

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White Crane Feather

I have been thinking about ways as a society to prevent as much zealotry as possible. With recent events, I think we should wage a campaign against it through primary education.

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.

I want to spend more time teaching kids how to think instead of what to think.

What do you think? What are your ideas?

Edited by Seeker79
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Mr Right Wing

I have been thinking about ways as a society to prevent as much zealotry as possible. With recent events, I think we should wage a campaign against it through primary education.

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.

I want to spend more time teaching kids how to think instead of what to think.

What do you think? What are your ideas?

So you believe that a 2nd year medical student who blows up marathon runners some how lacks critical thinking skills? With him being on a degree I'd say his critical thinking skills are way above that of the average American.

The problem here is the bombers originate from a different nation which has a different national culture, religion and moral compass. When a state naively bundles people from all ethnicities together and blinds itself to the conflicts their differences can cause it leads to terrorism. If the USA wants to allow immigration it is vital that it only lets those in who have been instituitionlised to the American way of thinking. Overwise the occasional one will go booooom!

Edited by Giant Killer B
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White Crane Feather

So you believe that a 2nd year medical student who blows up marathon runners some how lacks critical thinking skills? With him being on a degree I'd say his critical thinking skills are way above that of the average American.

The problem here is the bombers originate from a different nation which has a different national culture, religion and moral compass. When a state naively bundles people from all ethnicities together and blinds itself to the conflicts their differences can cause it leads to terrorism. If the USA wants to allow immigration it is vital that it only lets those in who have been instituitionlised to the American way of thinking. Overwise the occasional one will go booooom!

I have indeed met doctors that cannot think for themselves.

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Mr Right Wing

I have indeed met doctors that cannot think for themselves.

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?

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notforgotten

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?

I equate atheism with a lack of critical thinking skills. They can not figure God is real.
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Professor T

imo zealotry (had to google it) is a result of religious, political or social disparity.. Critical thinking is not a cure for the kind of fanaticism that leads to events that reek of extremism and fanaticism. The root of that weed lays in the grose disparity we see in our hieiracicle society.. Rick-poor.. Powerfull-weak..

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Ashotep

I have to agree with Professor T. Then I'll add you can worship a rock for all I care but don't try to force it on me or expect me to adhere to your religion. That causes a lot of the problems, some people don't like it because you don't believe the way they do and want to kill you because of it.

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White Crane Feather

Do you equate religious belief with a lack of critical thinking skills?

Absolutely not. Realigious Zealotry and fundamentalism probably yes.... Or at least severe cognative dissonance.

Edited by Seeker79

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White Crane Feather

imo zealotry (had to google it) is a result of religious, political or social disparity.. Critical thinking is not a cure for the kind of fanaticism that leads to events that reek of extremism and fanaticism. The root of that weed lays in the grose disparity we see in our hieiracicle society.. Rick-poor.. Powerfull-weak..

I don't know prof, there are wealthy jihadists. And wealthy crazy Christians. Indeed it's the ones with money that are often the most dangerous.

I equate atheism with a lack of critical thinking skills. They can not figure God is real.

How so?

Edited by Seeker79

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bmk1245

[...] I think we should wage a campaign against it through primary education.

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.[...]

And that would be the end of unexplained-mysteries.com...

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White Crane Feather

And that would be the end of unexplained-mysteries.com...

I doubt that. True Critical thinking often leads you to unexpected places ;)

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Professor T

I don't know prof, there are wealthy jihadists. And wealthy crazy Christians.

And lot's of Muslims and Christians in the gutter as well. There's your disparity..

I don't think it's the wealthy Jihadists strapping bombs to their 2013 Merc's with a trunk full of explosives to go to the mall.. It's the poor, who do the dirty work..

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Frank Merton

I equate atheism with a lack of critical thinking skills. They can not figure God is real.

That's a bit much, and in fact a bit insulting. I am perfectly able to figure God is real, but I don't because there is no good evidence for it, and by non-trivial definitions the idea of God leads to logical paradoxes.

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Frank Merton

I've never quite gotten the point behind "critical thinking." It seems to be a list of rules, mostly logical fallacies to avoid but also propaganda tactics to recognize (they mix them up). That may help you avoid mistakes, but I don't see where it does anything affirmative.

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Mr Right Wing

Absolutely not. Realigious Zealotry and fundamentalism probably yes.... Or at least severe cognative dissonance.

We are western so we have grown up in similar cultures which have given us the same ideological beliefs, same religion or atheism, same moral compass, same love for Democracy and freedom, etc.

The reason why terrrorists are trying to kill our peoples isnt limited cognitive abilities or a lack of education. Its because all of the above were different in their homelands and because of that a lot of them have a tendency to see us as weird or evil. Its just like how we might see North Koreans if we turned up in their country.

The problem here is multi-cultural society as it doesnt deal with the differences in national cultures of immigrants. Worse, it allows people to keep them which sows the seed for future internal problems. These people are not blowing us up out of darkness but because in their minds they see it as morally justified. What should be happening is a cultural induction when immigrants turn up on our doorsteps and then an assessment to make sure they've adopted it. If they havent they should be deported back to their 'own world'.

Edited by Giant Killer B

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White Crane Feather

And lot's of Muslims and Christians in the gutter as well. There's your disparity..

I don't think it's the wealthy Jihadists strapping bombs to their 2013 Merc's with a trunk full of explosives to go to the mall.. It's the poor, who do the dirty work..

That's only half the equation though. The zealotry still comes from those with money aswell even if they are less willing to do the dirty work.

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Frank Merton

How does Oklahoma City fit into this picture?

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Zaphod222

The problem here is the bombers originate from a different nation which has a different national culture, religion and moral compass.

The jihad is not bound to a "nation". It is bound to a particular political religion. You can be sure that Christian and Jewish citizens of Chechnia (the few that are left) are not going on a jihad.

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White Crane Feather

We are western so we have grown up in similar cultures which have given us the same ideological beliefs, same religion or atheism, same moral compass, same love for Democracy and freedom, etc.

The reason why terrrorists are trying to kill our peoples isnt limited cognitive abilities or a lack of education. Its because all of the above were different in their homelands and because of that a lot of them have a tendency to see us as weird or evil. Its just like how we might see North Koreans if we turned up in their country.

The problem here is multi-cultural society as it doesnt deal with the differences in national cultures of immigrants. Worse, it allows people to keep them which sows the seed for future internal problems. These people are not blowing us up out of darkness but because in their minds they see it as morally justified. What should be happening is a cultural induction when immigrants turn up on our doorsteps and then an assessment to make sure they've adopted it. If they havent they should be deported back to their 'own world'.

Still we have mcvey and the unibomber amoung others. I suppose if I showed up in north Korea I would seem like a radical. The more I think about it, the more it seems that if we are going to live in a large diverse society, it might simply be unavoidable.

Cognative dissonance is where one refuses to change their stance in the face of overwhelming evidence simply because psychologically it is more difficult for them to change. Usually as a result of how much they have invested in one thought pattern. It's often associated with cults.

Edited by Seeker79
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Zaphod222

How does Oklahoma City fit into this picture?

It fits in as a wet dream of our political and media elite. The so desparately wanted this to be the act of some kind of of right-wing, anti-government redneck type. In which case we would hear none of the excuses that we are hearing now... instead it would be a sound condemnation of the ideology.

Alas, the numbers are working against them,. Rightist wingnut bombers are few and far between, while the jihad is a live and growing.

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Frank Merton

People have been throwing bombs ever since they were invented, and before that they were shooting arrows.

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Zaphod222

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.

I want to spend more time teaching kids how to think instead of what to think.

What do you think? What are your ideas?

I think you should tell us how you want to get the various mosques and madarassas where the children are radicalized to join your plan...

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redhen

My idea is to start about sixth grade and give every child through the end of high school an advanced education in critical thinking. It should be worked out to be just as important as math or reading and the cariculum would be required in every school.

Yes, this would be a great idea, not just for refuting bizarre, external ideologies but also to prepare to refute college professors who use their classroom for their own warped political agendas.

I don't know how useful it would be against those who have compartmentalized their beliefs and behaviours, or sociopaths who truly don't care about ethics or reasoning, but any education is a good thing. It's sad that the Czech embassy has to post a public announcement on it's website pointing out that

"The Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities - the Czech Republic is a Central European country; Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation."

Got that?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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Zaphod222

I don't think it's the wealthy Jihadists strapping bombs to their 2013 Merc's with a trunk full of explosives to go to the mall.. It's the poor, who do the dirty work..

It is comfortable to think so, because it fits in with our Western world view. But if you look at reality, the opposite is the case. The jihad is largely an enterprise of the wealth. The dirt poor are busy surviving. And yes, wealthy Saudis are actually strapping bombs to their 2013 mercs on their way to paradise. And by the way, Osama Bin Ladin himself was a multi-billionnaire; in fact an heir to one of the wealthiest families in Saudi Arabia.

Sorry to burst your bubble...

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Professor T

That's only half the equation though. The zealotry still comes from those with money aswell even if they are less willing to do the dirty work.

True that......

I kind of think that the other half of the equation relates to the psychology of the belief and it's structure.. There's someone else there that captures these zealots'.. I think that If you took 100 people and indoctrinated them all to follow your evil plan for the world, 99 of them would be mediocre, but 1 would bow to any wish..

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