Bush Overlooks Own Flip-Flop in Debate

[Fluffybunny]

The irony that Bush admits to a flip flop...that is a good one...

By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush overlooked a flip-flop of his own when he boasted Wednesday about launching the Homeland Security Department: He was against it before he was for it. John Kerry told Americans he has a health care plan that covers all of them, when he doesn't.

Figures and rhetorical claims flew in the last presidential debate, and not all them were on target.

Kerry accurately quoted Bush as saying he does not think much about Osama bin Laden and is not all that concerned about him. The president protested: "I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations."

But in March 2002, Bush indeed said, "I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run." He described the terrorist leader as "marginalized," and said, "I just don't spend that much time on him."

Kerry declared, "I have a plan to cover all Americans" with health insurance, but even his campaign does not contend his blueprint would eliminate the ranks of the uninsured. Independent analysts say full implementation of Kerry's plan would extend coverage to about 25 million of the nearly 45 million uninsured.

He also said Bush has cut Pell grants, but later altered the accusation when the president pointed out accurately that about 1 million more students are getting the aid than when he took office. Kerry then said Bush has not raised the maximum Pell grant as much as promised.

"They're not getting the $5,100 the president promised them," he said. Education Secretary Rod Paige said the month after Bush took office that the maximum grant for first-year students would go up by more than half, to $5,100. But the maximum now is $4,050.

Also in the debate:

_ Kerry, trying to show Bush has paid too little heed to civil rights, stated flatly, "This is a president who hasn't met with the Black Congressional Caucus." Actually, Bush met the caucus at the White House within two weeks of taking office.

_ Bush talked about how he signed the bill creating the Homeland Security Department, putting that on his list of actions that have made the country safer. But he was a convert to that cause, at first opposing the massive reorganization.

_ Kerry sharply criticized Bush on port security inspections of ship cargo, saying "95 percent come in today uninspected. That's not good enough."

Kerry's claim ignores that the manifests of all U.S.-bound cargo are screened before they reach American ports and all high-risk cargo is identified. U.S. officials then physically inspect the high-risk cargo — which accounts for about 5 percent of the overall total.

On whether the inspections are adequate, a new report by the Homeland Security Department internal investigator that surfaced Wednesday concluded federal inspectors of oceangoing shipping containers still need to improve their detection equipment and search procedures to prevent terrorists from sneaking weapons of mass destruction into the United States.

_ Bush accused Kerry of voting 98 times to raise taxes during his 19-year Senate career. An analysis by the Annenberg Public Policy Center's FactCheck.org found that 43 of the votes cited by the president involved budget measures that merely set targets for taxes without actually legislating changes to the tax code. The list also counted multiple votes on the same bills, including 16 votes on the 1993 Clinton package of tax increases and spending cuts. link

[bathory]

oh no, bush - 1, Kerry - every arguement:P

[stillcrazy]

It's a real shame that the ballot does not have a box marked "None of the Above."

[snuffypuffer]

I see that this depresses you. Shall we vote for Nader, then?

[Kismit]

Vote Colin Powell ...

thats it i'm making a new signature ...

[Talon]

Shall we vote for Nader, then?

Nah, it only splits the Kerry vote

[Independent1]

oh no, bush - 1, Kerry - every arguement:P

306097[/snapback]

I think it is important to note that we are talking about a change of mind during the few days after 9-11. His initial reaction was that it was a bad idea, but then he saw the merits of the idea and switched over.

In John Kerry's case, he was in favor of using force against Saddam Hussien from the mid-1990s until about June of 2003, when Howard Dean became a factor in the Presidential race.

He now claims that in October of 2002, he voted to give the authority to the President to use force, thinking the president would not do so. That makes no sense. If my boss gives me the authority to decide what time I want to go to break at, I am going to pick a time I like to take my break. Kerry gave Bush the authority to use force, so why shoudl he be surprised that Bush used force?

[Fluffybunny]

He now claims that in October of 2002, he voted to give the authority to the President to use force, thinking the president would not do so.  That makes no sense.  If my boss gives me the authority to decide what time I want to go to break at, I am going to pick a time I like to take my break.  Kerry gave Bush the authority to use force, so why shoudl he be surprised that Bush used force?

My understanding is that the authority was given under the idea that it would be used as a last resort and with a broad coalition. That didn't happen in Kerrys' opinion and therefore his concern on the matter...He was not alone in having that concern either...

As for the flip flops, Bush has had his own so he has little room to speak about it in the way that he does. He flip flopped about Osama just the other night as well as the homeland security issue. He does it just like Kerry does...

Edited October 15, 2004 by Fluffybunny

[Independent1]

My understanding is that the authority was given under the idea that it would be used as a last resort and with a broad coalition. That didn't happen in Kerrys' opinion and therefore his concern...

308003[/snapback]

Good point, although I think he formed that opinion when he saw Howard Dean gaining momentum. We never heard Kerry speak out against the Iraq war in March-May of 2003.

[Michelle]

What I found odd about the debate, and I haven't heard anyone mention it, is Kerrys reference to the media. He quoted things from media sources as if they were congressional reports.

I guess that's why he doesn't have to go to official meetings because the Washington Post condenses it for him the next day.

[jeceris]

the things bush says........

debate #2, medication from canada isn't any good. he pretty much said the meds your pensioners cross the border for, in the thousands i might add, have been buying crap. these people can't afford medication in their own country, and have to come here to get it, and bush tells 'em it's no good.

note. everyone here in canada taking meds is doing just fine thank you very much, as are the old age pensioners crossing the border once a month so they don't have to mortgage their home, are any of these people the grandparents of any of you republicans?

debate#3, we didn't get enough of the flu vaccine from the suplier in england, so just do what i do, don't take it.

how stupid is that????? hopefully bush will get the flu, but he'll get the best medical attention, won't have to pay for the antibiotics, and it won't complicate to pneumonia, and then if your very old, death.

this guy has no clue about how to help with health care, but then it really doesn't matter does it.

[Seraphina]

You make a good point Mr J....one that will, however, be overlooked in favour of a bumper sticker slogan

[jeceris]

ok sera, here's a few bumpersticker ideas.

i've taken canadian meds and lived

flu, schmoo, do what i do. don't take it.

my other car was sold to buy the meds i've just bought

over the counter meds, or over the border meds.

[Independent1]

the things bush says........

debate #2, medication from canada isn't any good. he pretty much said the meds your pensioners cross the border for, in the thousands i might add, have been buying crap. these people can't afford medication in their own country, and have to come here to get it, and bush tells 'em it's no good.

note. everyone here in canada taking meds is doing just fine thank you very much, as are the old age pensioners crossing the border once a month so they don't have to mortgage their home, are any of these people the grandparents of any of you republicans?

No, he said their safety had not been fully established. That means that while most of the medication is probably good, there may be the potential for bad medications to be sold to Americans through Canada that the FDA does not allow for safety reasons. (I am nto saying I agree with that, just that it is what he said).

debate#3, we didn't get enough of the flu vaccine from the suplier in england, so just do what i do, don't take it.

how stupid is that?????

309091[/snapback]

I have never gotten a flu shot, and rarely get the flu. The elderly, pregnant, very young children, and other high risk groups are still receiving the flu vaccine. Bush was speaking to the average, healthy, low risk American.

Edited October 16, 2004 by Independent1