God's promise on Israel

[AlasBabylon]

One can argue forever about the righteousness of the decision to create a Jewish state but one cannot un-create it.

States... nations... even whole empires... have been "uncreated" throughout history.

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[+and-then]

States... nations... even whole empires... have been "uncreated" throughout history.

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Not with PR campaigns though. It takes a war to steal a country from it's owners - or a UN decision to create one.

[AlasBabylon]

Not with PR campaigns though. It takes a war to steal a country from it's owners - or a UN decision to create one.

The Israelis might resort to their "Samson Option"...

so if there is a war, it better be quick and final.

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[+and-then]

The Israelis might resort to their "Samson Option"...

so if there is a war, it better be quick and final.

.

Ever hear of the Dolphin submarine fleet?

[AlasBabylon]

Ever hear of the Dolphin submarine fleet?

German reparations ?

Have you seen the weird holocaust memorial in Berlin ??

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[Yamato]

You are a vile, ill tempered and insulting excuse for a human being. You advocate that Palestinians be freed from any kind of controls even when you KNOW, you KNOW they will use that freedom to attack Jews and kill them. Then you hide behind semantics to spew more hate. Done with you - I think you are a disgrace.

I've advocated for international peacekeepers, if repeating that for the 90th time helps that shot memory of yours. Don't accuse me of supporting murder when you have no evidence for such desperate BS.

[buckskin scout]

Quoting scripture that doesn't support your claims now? The Bible does tell that they will inhabit that land - I assume you believe the Bible, since you quote it so often? If so, WHEN, do you believe they will possess this land? And what do you imagine has become of the "rightful" owners? Did God *gasp* make them give it up?

And can you name a Palestinian King, Prince, Potentate or president prior to 1960? A Palestinian invention? Perhaps a car or a plane or even a desk that is called Palestinian in a museum?

An apostate Israel is never supposed to return to the land because every time Israel was uprooted it was for its apostacy. But it is God that is supposed to lead them back to possess the land himself. See: Hosea 1:7, Zechariah 4:6, Isaiah 30:1.

Many non-Zionists religious Jews await the Messiah to lead them back to the land and reject Zionism outright.

[danielost]

You're the Christian Zionist not I. Do not Christian Zionists vow that an obscure passage of scripture in Zechariah 13:8-9 has yet to be fulfilled and regards the current state of Israel.

Here is that piece of scripture for all whom may not have a Bible handy:

And it will come about in all the land,

Declares the Lord,

That two parts in it will be cut off and perish;

But the third will be left in it.

And I will bring the third part through fire,

Refine them as silver is refined,

And test them as gold is tested.

They will call on My name,

And I will answer them;

I will say, 'They are my people,'

And they will say, 'The Lord is my God.'

Zechariah 13:8-9

So basically what you are saying is God raised this oppressive regime and then will destroy 2/3 of the current Jewish Israelis and leave 1/3 of the Jewish Israelis alive to lead humbled and contrite lives and basically will love their neighbors (the Palestinians).

Christian Zionism believes the Zionists have inalienable rights to the land.

What Christians such as myself believe is that the Palestinians have lived continuously in these lands for 1,300 years and have no rights.

We see prophecy and the Word of God directly conflicting with and contradicting Zionism. Thus, we go with the word of God and reject Zionism and its apartheid policies because it was these very same social issues and disobedience that led God to put the ancient Jews into the Babylonian captivity IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I think this passage has been fulfilled. There were three groups of isrealites in the land. The missing ten tribes, the jews, and the sameritans(half blooded ten tribes.) The ten tribes were the first group to be cut out. The jews were second and the sameritans still live in the land. About four hundred left. Although they converted to islam out of fear.

[danielost]

I've advocated for international peacekeepers, if repeating that for the 90th time helps that shot memory of yours. Don't accuse me of supporting murder when you have no evidence for such desperate BS.

Your international peacekeepers, laughed everytime hezbolla fired a rocket into isreal just before the last war. On the border with egypt are american troops, none. UN.

[danielost]

An apostate Israel is never supposed to return to the land because every time Israel was uprooted it was for its apostacy. But it is God that is supposed to lead them back to possess the land himself. See: Hosea 1:7, Zechariah 4:6, Isaiah 30:1.

Many non-Zionists religious Jews await the Messiah to lead them back to the land and reject Zionism outright.

Now, how could the jews rebuild the temple before god comes back. if they have to wait to go there for him to take them there.

[danielost]

God told abraham that al the land you can see is yours. Paraphrased. Sounds like a place to me. Everytime they were removed' they were sent back to that land. This is just the latest such returns. Most christians believe it is the last time.

[+and-then]

God told abraham that al the land you can see is yours. Paraphrased. Sounds like a place to me. Everytime they were removed' they were sent back to that land. This is just the latest such returns. Most christians believe it is the last time.

And I am one of those who believes this way. I believe that being "anti Zionist" is just a re-wrapping of a very old and hateful package. Or did I miss any of the dozens of videos and cited publications on the evils of Darfur or the Rohinga?

[buckskin scout]

Now, how could the jews rebuild the temple before god comes back. if they have to wait to go there for him to take them there.

Did you know that the multiple leaders and government officials of Israel have referred to the State of Israel ITSELF as the Third Temple... hmmm.

God told abraham that al the land you can see is yours. Paraphrased. Sounds like a place to me. Everytime they were removed' they were sent back to that land. This is just the latest such returns. Most christians believe it is the last time.

Yes, he told Abraham that. And he also told Abraham that his descendants would be as vast as the stars in the sky and as numerous as the sand by the sea. Yet, it is estimated that there were 18 million Jews worldwide in 1939, it is estimated that there were 12 million Jews worldwide in 1945, and it is roughly estimated 14 million Jews worldwide today. That averages about a growth of 30,000 per a year over the last 68 years. Roughly speaking with round figures, 50% of world Jewry lives in the United States, and roughly 50% live in Israel today.

And God also promised Abraham and his descendents would possess all the land, from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates. Tell me something, how can 6 million Jews possess the land from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates? That is heck of alot of real estate for 6 million souls. Not to mention that there are about 367 million Arabs that says they can't and will not ever possess it.

The closest the Jews came to possessing the land from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates is during the Davidic Kingdom, but they didn't even come close to the river Euphrates.

Edited May 12, 2013 by B Jenkins

[+and-then]

Did you know that the multiple leaders and government officials of Israel have referred to the State of Israel ITSELF as the Third Temple... hmmm.

Yes, he told Abraham that. And he also told Abraham that his descendants would be as vast as the stars in the sky and as numerous as the sand by the sea. Yet, it is estimated that there were 18 million Jews worldwide in 1939, it is estimated that there were 12 million Jews worldwide in 1945, and it is roughly estimated 14 million Jews worldwide today. That averages about a growth of 30,000 per a year over the last 68 years. Roughly speaking with round figures, 50% of world Jewry lives in the United States, and roughly 50% live in Israel today.

And God also promised Abraham and his descendents would possess all the land, from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates. Tell me something, how can 6 million Jews possess the land from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates? That is heck of alot of real estate for 6 million souls. Not to mention that there are about 367 million Arabs that says they can't and will not ever possess it.

The closest the Jews came to possessing the land from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates is during the Davidic Kingdom, but they didn't even come close to the river Euphrates.

Passing judgement on God's honesty now, BJ? Or maybe just His ability to fulfill His will in the world He created....

Someone who actually believes in God would tremble to do such a thing.

[danielost]

Did you know that the multiple leaders and government officials of Israel have referred to the State of Israel ITSELF as the Third Temple... hmmm.

Yes, he told Abraham that. And he also told Abraham that his descendants would be as vast as the stars in the sky and as numerous as the sand by the sea. Yet, it is estimated that there were 18 million Jews worldwide in 1939, it is estimated that there were 12 million Jews worldwide in 1945, and it is roughly estimated 14 million Jews worldwide today. That averages about a growth of 30,000 per a year over the last 68 years. Roughly speaking with round figures, 50% of world Jewry lives in the United States, and roughly 50% live in Israel today.

And God also promised Abraham and his descendents would possess all the land, from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates. Tell me something, how can 6 million Jews possess the land from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates? That is heck of alot of real estate for 6 million souls. Not to mention that there are about 367 million Arabs that says they can't and will not ever possess it.

The closest the Jews came to possessing the land from the river of Egypt to the river Euphrates is during the Davidic Kingdom, but they didn't even come close to the river Euphrates.

You forget that the arabs are also abrahams children. You also forget that there are ten lost tribes as well. Which the germanic tribes that took europe may be part of those tribes. So counting the arabs, abrahams children own all of the land promised.

If the arabs try to make a case as the one in the op then they have no more claim to that sliver of land than the jews.

[Yamato]

Your international peacekeepers, laughed everytime hezbolla fired a rocket into isreal just before the last war. On the border with egypt are american troops, none. UN.

My suggestion is for international peacekeepers within Israel-Palestine proper. Israel is responsible for its own borders. If it wants to button down its border with Gaza for its own security, that's its business. But blockading international waters and attacking ships from Ireland, Greece, Turkey, the US etc puts Israel in violation of international law once again. I don't understand why there was no additional legal action taken against Israel for stealing the private property of the blockade runners, laptops, cell phones, IDs, passports, money, credit cards, and so forth. Credit card fraud was rampant for these people in the months following Israel's commando raids. This property was taken officially, not dropped in back alleys for common criminals to exploit. Israel believes it's above the law, and so long as the world sits idly by they will continue to. A blockade is an act of war and a legitimate action in war, so if there is war between Israel and Gaza, whining about rockets is just whining about the other side fighting back. Non-violent civil action is my favorite way to fight Israel's tyranny. Violent or not, self-defense is a universal right. Like any other American, if some foreign power was depriving my civil liberties, I'd be interested in rifles, rockets, roadside bombs, sabotage, ambush, and other guerrilla tactics too. I'm not advocating the same thing for Palestinians but I'm not denying them the exact same right that I enjoy.

I have to admit, Israel makes me love my country a little bit more when I see how astronomically superior the US government is to Israel's in the way it treats people. It's deplorable that we aid such a state actor as Israel financially and militarily. We should aid them with counsel and counsel only, which they desperately need. I've grown to understand that no country is bad, countries are only both good and bad. Focusing on how countries are bad is useful in going to war on them. There are many wonderful people in Israel and of course we must consider their security. No state can function with bombs going off in cafes and bus stops. That said, Palestinians can't lay down and roll over like the Israeli govt would have them do.

[danielost]

Except that the rockets came first.

Also, all countries have right to stop and inspect any ship entering their waters. The only reason Isreal stop those ships where they did was to save lives. The palistanians were going to send out motor boats to escort them to port. So isreal stopped te ships out of range of the boats.

And don't forger you said isreal owns gaza.

[Yamato]

Except that the rockets came first.

Also, all countries have right to stop and inspect any ship entering their waters. The only reason Isreal stop those ships where they did was to save lives. The palistanians were going to send out motor boats to escort them to port. So isreal stopped te ships out of range of the boats.

And don't forger you said isreal owns gaza.

These problems long predate Palestinian rockets. The rockets came before the media paid attention.

And don't forger you said isreal owns gaza.

?

Keeping the wheelchairs and concrete out of Gaza saved lives? If those ships docked in port, nobody would have died. But the ships were raided by Israel and nine died. Keeping up with convention, the deck of a US ship is US sovereign. Any attack on that ship is an attack on the United States. Moreover, any attack on a member of NATO is an attack on all members of NATO. By the letter of our treaty we would have been at war with Israel. But laws aren't for Israel. They're for Saddam Hussein though.

[buckskin scout]

Passing judgement on God's honesty now, BJ? Or maybe just His ability to fulfill His will in the world He created....

Someone who actually believes in God would tremble to do such a thing.

Don't get sanctimonious with me. I just proved my point about how people mold the scriptures to their personal "politics" and agendas even though there is tons of evidence stacked against their interpretations. Like the prophet said, "here alittle, there alittle".

You forget that the arabs are also abrahams children. You also forget that there are ten lost tribes as well. Which the germanic tribes that took europe may be part of those tribes. So counting the arabs, abrahams children own all of the land promised.

If the arabs try to make a case as the one in the op then they have no more claim to that sliver of land than the jews.

Absolutely, that's the very point I am making. No one knows who the lost tribes, some say it is the Britons, some say it is the Germans, some say it is the Scandinavians, some say its the Irish, some say its the Asians, some say its the Africans, etc.

One really interesting bit of scripture is found in 1 Kings 9:5, and this particular piece of scripture suggests the lost tribes can be indentified by its monarchy.

Edited May 13, 2013 by B Jenkins

[danielost]

These problems long predate Palestinian rockets. The rockets came before the media paid attention.

And don't forger you said isreal owns gaza.

?

Keeping the wheelchairs and concrete out of Gaza saved lives? If those ships docked in port, nobody would have died. But the ships were raided by Israel and nine died. Keeping up with convention, the deck of a US ship is US sovereign. Any attack on that ship is an attack on the United States. Moreover, any attack on a member of NATO is an attack on all members of NATO. By the letter of our treaty we would have been at war with Israel. But laws aren't for Israel. They're for Saddam Hussein though.

The first attack on the jews was in 1932(?) One year after tey were welcomed home by the local shiek. There were no palistians at this time. The group that became them lived in jordan and tried to take over that government.

[WHO U KIDDIN]

The first attack on the jews was in 1932(?) One year after tey were welcomed home by the local shiek. There were no palistians at this time. The group that became them lived in jordan and tried to take over that government.

But of course there were no indigenous people identified as Palestinians living in the Holy Lands before the founding of Israel in 1948. The nerve of these illiterate Arabs in attempting to rewrite our world history.

Thank God for the truth!

1919

First Palestinian National Congress meeting in Jerusalem sends two memoranda to Versailles rejecting Balfour Declaration and demanding independence.

- From: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/brits.html

The Palestine Arab Congress were a series of congresses held by the Palestinian Arab population organized by a nationwide network of local Muslim-Christian Associations in the British Mandate of Palestine. Between 1919 and 1928, a series of seven Congresses were held in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa and Nablus. Despite broad public support the congresses, their executive committees were never officially recognised by the British who claimed they were unrepresentative.^[1] Following the British defeat of Ottoman forces in 1918, the British initially established military rule and later a civil administration over Palestine. The Palestine Arab Congress and its organizers in the Muslim-Christian Associations were formed when the country's Arab population began to organize and coordinate opposition to British policies.

- From: http://en.wikipedia....e_Arab_Congress

Edited May 13, 2013 by WHO U KIDDIN

[buckskin scout]

The first attack on the jews was in 1932(?) One year after tey were welcomed home by the local shiek. There were no palistians at this time. The group that became them lived in jordan and tried to take over that government.

On December 1922, Britain declared its recognition of "the existence of an independent constitutional Government in Transjordan." And in 1928, Britain specifically defined Palestine as the area WEST of the Jordan River.

And it was only in Palestine that Britain recognized as applicable its promise in the Balfour Declaration to aid in establishing a Jewish homeland.

Here are three historical examples, huge examples, that Palestine DID NOT INCLUDE Jordan (Transjordan).

[buckskin scout]

The Israelis might resort to their "Samson Option"...

so if there is a war, it better be quick and final.

.

Speaking of "The Samson Option", check your local libraries or second hand bookstores for The Samson Option written by Seymour M Hersh, who won a Pulitzer Prize for International Journalism and dozens of other major journalism prizes. He exposes the bold-faced lies and propaganda Israel resorted to in their obsessive drive to become the first nuclear power in the Middle East.

[danielost]

On December 1922, Britain declared its recognition of "the existence of an independent constitutional Government in Transjordan." And in 1928, Britain specifically defined Palestine as the area WEST of the Jordan River.

And it was only in Palestine that Britain recognized as applicable its promise in the Balfour Declaration to aid in establishing a Jewish homeland.

Here are three historical examples, huge examples, that Palestine DID NOT INCLUDE Jordan (Transjordan).

I guess you missed the part where the jews had been buying land there since the late 1800s.

[buckskin scout]

I guess you missed the part where the jews had been buying land there since the late 1800s.

At the time of the UN partition plan in 1947, the Jews had only succeeded in buying 6% of all the land in Palestine.