Japanese mayor: wartime sex slaves necessary

[SHaYap]

Third Eye,

I don't want to be antagonistic since this is an emotional subject. I would never have expected this to be the sentiment expressed in a modern age. Looking back through any countries history there are always aspects that are brutal to the point of history we are at now; so the mayor looking back to WWII from 2013 and not condemning the actions taken by the Japanese Military seems archaic and barbaric. It makes me wonder why he felt it necessary to express these views.

Mabon.

'He' is part of his social fabric and has every right to speak of his opinions (as it were) for whatever reasons or ambitions of his ... if he broke laws he will be dealt with by the laws of his land ....

What gets me is that some mentioned that those innocents devastated in that atomic holocaust 'deserved' it because of --- well this ....

And that is sad .....

[Simbi Laveau]

You know... I spent 34 years in the Army... Went all over the world, and I NEVER raped anyone... I never had anyone from any of my units that EVER raped anyone, and any soldiers I ever heard about that were involved in anything LIKE rape were all prosecuted...

Reading all the UM threads about how evil,murderous,stupid and vile we of the US Military are I'm starting to think that maybe I was just an underachiever...

This article was about JAPANESE actions druing WWII... And JAPANESE officials not addressing those actions... What the heck does American actions of the past/present or future have to do with any of this?...

I was making a comment to the affect,war is hell ,people do atrocious things,and as always,I had to prove what I say is true .

The Japanese ,sadly,did it in an organized manner . My understanding is ,the guys from unit 731 ,all avoided prosecution by turning over research the the us govt ,and working for us ,after the war ...which they also did with Hitler's top scientists .

The men in charge of things like Nanjing and comfort women ,all went home and became yakuza family heads .

No ones hands were that clean ,ans my mothers family was all military ,WW 2 .None of my uncles ran around raping women ,but obviously ,many people take advantage of such situations ,and it was pretty much common knowledge during the Vietnam war .

Lots of people get away stuff ,we never hear about ,and I think Korea had Japanese comfort women for their men .

Its all ignored,for proprieties sake .

[Professor Buzzkill]

'He' is part of his social fabric and has every right to speak of his opinions (as it were) for whatever reasons or ambitions of his ... if he broke laws he will be dealt with by the laws of his land ....

What gets me is that some mentioned that those innocents devastated in that atomic holocaust 'deserved' it because of --- well this ....

And that is sad .....

I mentioned the nukes, which as you say, is sad. But if it could have stopped one underage girl being raped repeditively by multiple soldiers for years while tied to a bed, then i think it was worth it. I hear your sorrow for the victims of the bomb blast, but where is it for the thousands of rape victims who went through hell abd were offered payment for their "services"

[SHaYap]

I mentioned the nukes, which as you say, is sad. But if it could have stopped one underage girl being raped repeditively by multiple soldiers for years while tied to a bed, then i think it was worth it. I hear your sorrow for the victims of the bomb blast, but where is it for the thousands of rape victims who went through hell abd were offered payment for their "services"

Worth it ?

Think of it as it dropping Fat Boy on Manhattan with only old men, women and children there to see the flash close up ....

Worth what to who ?

Is this what Justice means to you ? Slaughter Peter to pay for Paul ?

I am not pleading for the criminals ... only for the innocents, you don't wipe out an entire race to ease a troubled mind ...

it never works , ask little Adolf

~edit : the trouble with posting at 3.30am

Edited May 15, 2013 by third_eye

[Mabon]

Third Eye,

Well...... (I'm going to play Devil's advocate), if the mayor is allowed his right to speak of things others may find offensive then aren't the people who talk about dropping the bomb also right to speak their mind? For me there is a difference in blowing off steam when a subject is difficult (a private person venting, perhaps rashly or harshly) vs an official representative speaking publicly about a multinational crime of authorized abduction and systematic rape in a manner so cavalier. This again seems crazy and at odds with what the majority of people seem to be striving for around the world. Human trafficking is a horrible beastly crime and rape is terrible yet there is an extra hell these women (and don't forget the children of both genders) who are forced into the sex trade go through.

It makes me wonder why women and children are viewed as disposable goods for sex and no one who indulges in it or looks the other way can fathom the negative impact it has on society and the world? I do not apologize that his statement makes me ill and the next time he is up for election I hope he is voted out! the way I view it is that kind of mindset is part of the problem not the solution.

Mabon.

[SHaYap]

Third Eye,

Well...... (I'm going to play Devil's advocate), if the mayor is allowed his right to speak of things others may find offensive then aren't the people who talk about dropping the bomb also right to speak their mind? For me there is a difference in blowing off steam when a subject is difficult (a private person venting, perhaps rashly or harshly) vs an official representative speaking publicly about a multinational crime of authorized abduction and systematic rape in a manner so cavalier. This again seems crazy and at odds with what the majority of people seem to be striving for around the world. Human trafficking is a horrible beastly crime and rape is terrible yet there is an extra hell these women (and don't forget the children of both genders) who are forced into the sex trade go through.

It makes me wonder why women and children are viewed as disposable goods for sex and no one who indulges in it or looks the other way can fathom the negative impact it has on society and the world? I do not apologize that his statement makes me ill and the next time he is up for election I hope he is voted out! the way I view it is that kind of mindset is part of the problem not the solution.

Mabon.

Granted and agreed, I find this disagreeable too ... as you pointed out it is not unique in the history of mankind ... it continues to this very day, remember or know of Bosnia ?

There was one highly publicised case where members of the UN peacekeeping force were accused of direct involvement in the procurement of sex slaves for a local brothel in Bosnia.^{[citation needed]} The use of agents for procurement and management of brothels has allowed the military to believe itself shielded from the issue of sexual slavery and human trafficking.^{[citation needed]} Some NATO troops have been linked to prostitution and forced prostitution in Bosnia and Kosovo, as have some UN employees in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, where they were accused of the sexual abuse of underage girls

This was the comfort 'women' children actually ... who do we nuke for this atrocity ?

Nobody even wants to speak of this ... wiki link

British firm accused in UN 'sex scandal'

International police in Bosnia face prostitution claims

A former United Nations police officer is suing a British security firm over claims that it covered up the involvement of her fellow officers in sex crimes and prostitution rackets in the Balkans.

Kathryn Bolkovac, an American policewoman, was hired by DynCorp Aerospace in Aldershot for a UN post aimed at cracking down on sexual abuse and forced prostitution in Bosnia.

.....She said: 'When I started collecting evidence from the victims of sex trafficking it was clear that a number of UN officers were involved from several countries, including quite a few from Britain. I was shocked, appalled and disgusted. They were supposed to be over there to help, but they were committing crimes themselves. When I told the supervisors they didn't want to know.'

• 
  Antony Barnett and Solomon Hughes
  
• The Observer, Sunday 29 July 2001 00.15 BST
  

scandal ? what is this ? hollywood ? So we don't need to nuke anyone ?

Dyncorp and Halliburton Sex Slave Scandal Won't Go Away

Halliburton, Dyncorp lobbyists stall law banning human trafficking and sex slavery

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | January 1 2006

Almost a year after Representative Cynthia McKinney was told by Donald Rumsfeld that it was not the policy of the Bush administration to reward companies that engage in human trafficking with government contracts, the scandal continues to sweep up innocent children who are sold into a life of slavery at the behest of Halliburton subsidiaries , Dyncorp and other transnational corporations with close ties to the establishment elite.

On March 11th 2005, McKinney grilled Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers on the Dyncorp scandal.

note the dates .... link

where's the justice to this ? Or are these women not victims ?

Do we get to nuke someone now ?

what I also find disagreeable is associating the victims of the atomic holocaust with judiciary process, justifiable murder in other words, and that to me is just as offensive if not more.

at least we can chose .... but do we chose wisely ?

[Professor Buzzkill]

Granted and agreed, I find this disagreeable too ... as you pointed out it is not unique in the history of mankind ... it continues to this very day, remember or know of Bosnia ?

This was the comfort 'women' children actually ... who do we nuke for this atrocity ?

Nobody even wants to speak of this ... wiki link

scandal ? what is this ? hollywood ? So we don't need to nuke anyone ?

note the dates .... link

where's the justice to this ? Or are these women not victims ?

Do we get to nuke someone now ?

what I also find disagreeable is associating the victims of the atomic holocaust with judiciary process, justifiable murder in other words, and that to me is just as offensive if not more.

at least we can chose .... but do we chose wisely ?

Let me ask you this; could you rape someone? Could you rape someone when ordered to by your superior? Is following orders an excuse for rape?

I can tell you that in the west that question is pointless. A vast majority could not rape for any "reason".

Now the effects of this systematic abuse by a million japanese members of the military may not last thousands of years like radiation, but you can bet its stilll felt now by those women and everyone who knew and loved them. The average japanese citizen and those who in thw military have to take responcibility for the evil they unleashed on this world. Karma is a b****

Edited May 15, 2013 by Professor Buzzkill

[SHaYap]

Let me ask you this; could you rape someone? Could you rape someone when ordered to by your superior? Is following orders an excuse for rape?

I can tell you that in the west that question is pointless. A vast majority could not rape for any "reason".

Now the effects of this systematic abuse by a million japanese members of the military may not last thousands of years like radiation, but you can bet its stilll felt now by those women and everyone who knew and loved them. The average japanese citizen and those who in thw military have to take responcibility for the evil they unleashed on this world. Karma is a b****

No karma is not what you think it is .... and this is not what you mean it to be .... YOu don't get to point karma to where you want it to be,

if you want justice for one ... justice must deal with all ... that is karma

[Professor Buzzkill]

No karma is not what you think it is .... and this is not what you mean it to be .... YOu don't get to point karma to where you want it to be,

if you want justice for one ... justice must deal with all ... that is karma

Great post. In no way does it answer the questions i raised about rape. Or do you think that millions of rapes should have gone unpunished while trying to say that the victim were prostitutes?

Sick.....

[SHaYap]

Great post. In no way does it answer the questions i raised about rape. Or do you think that millions of rapes should have gone unpunished while trying to say that the victim were prostitutes?

Sick.....

YOu are the sick one here ... punishment is punishment ... justice is justice ... your perverse justice involves murdering innocents

Why don't you answer your own question ... ? How many of your rapists do you punish ?

Estimates vary as to how many women were involved, with numbers ranging from as low as 20,000 from some Japanese scholars^[10] to as high as 410,000 from some Chinese scholars,^[11] but the exact numbers are still being researched and debated. A majority of the women were from Korea, China, Japan and the Philippines,^[12] although women from Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan, Indonesia and other Japanese-occupied territories were used for military "comfort stations". Stations were located in Japan, China, the Philippines, Indonesia, then Malaya, Thailand, Burma, New Guinea, Hong Kong, Macau, and French Indochina.^[13]

wiki

You have been lied to and now you perpetuate the lies ... no fault of your own ... but your misplaced sense of perverse justice is your own.

We have made peace .... YOu on the other hand never even read the links I posted because its the dirt on your own backyard did you ?

Why ? Those are not victims because they were prostitutes ? Or because it was made for your type of comfort ?

Why not suggest nuking there as 'justice' ?

~edit : added link

Edited May 15, 2013 by third_eye

[Mabon]

Third Eye and Professor Buzzkill,

If I may point a couple of things out.... first, your both on the same side. Both of you think what happened an atrocity. Second, isn't the thing I said about the negative effect of human trafficking what is causing both of you to not see that you want the same thing... for human trafficking to stop, for people to be accountable for their crimes?

Third Eye, yes these other cases should be pursued regardless of who was involved. They are just as horrible crimes. The only thing is one battle at a time. This battle is an uphill fight at best and those who see the wrong in rape and human trafficking should be working together not against one another.

Mabon.

PS, I love the Buddha quote, they always make me smile.

[SHaYap]

Third Eye and Professor Buzzkill,

If I may point a couple of things out.... first, your both on the same side. Both of you think what happened an atrocity. Second, isn't the thing I said about the negative effect of human trafficking what is causing both of you to not see that you want the same thing... for human trafficking to stop, for people to be accountable for their crimes?

Third Eye, yes these other cases should be pursued regardless of who was involved. They are just as horrible crimes. The only thing is one battle at a time. This battle is an uphill fight at best and those who see the wrong in rape and human trafficking should be working together not against one another.

Mabon.

PS, I love the Buddha quote, they always make me smile.

Greetings Mabon -

I know the Prof ... I know he means well ... but I cannot accept 'nuking' anyone as justice ... or punishment ...

I don't blame him for feeling that way but I cannot let such accusations he hurled at me without a response ...

As for the cases I mentioned being 'pursued' you are sorely mistaken ... its all under the carpet now and even the UN isn't moving to resolving towards any form of justice for those girls.

Hopes Betrayed: Trafficking Of Women And Girls To Post-Conflict Bosnia And Herzegovina For Forced Prostitution

26 November 2002

link

What the UN Doesn't Want You to Know

In 1999, Kathryn Bolkovac went to Bosnia as part of a UN mission. She discovered terrible wrongdoing - and refused to stay silent about it.

By Nisha Lilia Diu

4:42PM GMT 06 Feb 2012

.... told them all how scenic it was, adding, 'and I know where you can get really nice 12- to 15-year-olds’. Bolkovac was baffled, believing she’d misheard.

link

~edit : no sleep ... and its 6.45 am

PS, glad you like the quote from Buddha, I agree ... he has a way with words

Edited May 15, 2013 by third_eye

[Mabon]

Third Eye,

You guys hopefully will work it out! It would be a shame if the two of you don't because with the passion that both of you have about the subject it would be a shame if it is wasted between the two of you when you could join forces and make a bigger impact on the issue.

And I'm not mistaken, I didn't say they were being pursued, I said they should be. I know things like that get swept under the rug and it's appalling! They shouldn't be allowed to be swept under the rug and again should be pursued! I also said one battle at a time, please. The topic was on what the Japanese mayor said, that was what I responded to and so did others, it's not fair to anyone and it's not helpful to try to look at one issue and have people start pointing the finger everywhere at everyone, shouting their guilty too, so are they instead of exploring that issue.

Yes the issue does have larger ramifications and looking at one issue should evolve into looking at similar crimes around the globe and trying to figure out what can be done to change the perceptions about human trafficking and not only for justice for the victims but to support them so they can reclaim their lives. This isn't just the problem of one country it is a global problem.

Please go to bed and get some sleep! We can fight nicely tomorrow!

Mabon.

[SHaYap]

Third Eye,

You guys hopefully will work it out! It would be a shame if the two of you don't because with the passion that both of you have about the subject it would be a shame if it is wasted between the two of you when you could join forces and make a bigger impact on the issue.

And I'm not mistaken, I didn't say they were being pursued, I said they should be. I know things like that get swept under the rug and it's appalling! They shouldn't be allowed to be swept under the rug and again should be pursued! I also said one battle at a time, please. The topic was on what the Japanese mayor said, that was what I responded to and so did others, it's not fair to anyone and it's not helpful to try to look at one issue and have people start pointing the finger everywhere at everyone, shouting their guilty too, so are they instead of exploring that issue.

Yes the issue does have larger ramifications and looking at one issue should evolve into looking at similar crimes around the globe and trying to figure out what can be done to change the perceptions about human trafficking and not only for justice for the victims but to support them so they can reclaim their lives. This isn't just the problem of one country it is a global problem.

Please go to bed and get some sleep! We can fight nicely tomorrow!

Mabon.

Thanks ye kindly ... but no to fight ... I was defending .... I don't fight very well

~cheers~

now i'm too sober to sleep ...

[Mabon]

LOL! Poor thing!

Good lord! Had you been drinking?

*makes note to self* Ok no fighting with you when your sober, your bad enough when you've been drinking! (another words you are a good opponent. That's what I meant about fighting nicely...Sorry, if cuntry humor doesn't translate well.)

Mabon.

[SHaYap]

LOL! Poor thing!

Good lord! Had you been drinking?

*makes note to self* Ok no fighting with you when your sober, your bad enough when you've been drinking! (another words you are a good opponent. That's what I meant about fighting nicely...Sorry, if cuntry humor doesn't translate well.)

Mabon.

Wished I hadn't been drinking

Actually I'm quite jovial when I'm sober ... come to think of it I'm more jovial when I'm tipsy ... its those dang nukes ... its such a downer

I yield ... that is as good a opponent as I'll want to be ... ~ i bow ~

Glad and happy to make your acquaintance Mabon ~ you're a class act , top notch

[Lilly]

Slavery and rape are never "necessary". Unfortunately in many cultures (both past and present) women are simply not viewed as being of equal value to men. In such places slavery and rape become conveniently acceptable.

[Simbi Laveau]

I would like to think,if a man was ordered to rape someone,and it went against his conscience ,he wouldn't do it ,but....some things were not in the average soldiers control ,and conversely ,some people have an instinct to be base and cruel ,and go with it,if the opportunity presents itself.

Women are considered fodder for men's whims,even today,in many places .Some considered very civilized actually .

In the past,during ages of lawlessness,and during war ,some people did terrible things.....

Terrible things .

[Professor Buzzkill]

I would like to think,if a man was ordered to rape someone,and it went against his conscience ,he wouldn't do it ,but....some things were not in the average soldiers control ,and conversely ,some people have an instinct to be base and cruel ,and go with it,if the opportunity presents itself.

Women are considered fodder for men's whims,even today,in many places .Some considered very civilized actually .

In the past,during ages of lawlessness,and during war ,some people did terrible things.....

Terrible things .

Understood. Yet i would like to think that rape is beyond me despite any circumstances.

I would also like to thank mabon for her moderation and third eye for his insights. I still think that some things (no matter who "side" committed them) are indefensible. Therefore i would like the mayor in question to retract his comments.

[Mabon]

Aw shucks!

Thank you both for your kind words!

Mabon.

[Simbi Laveau]

Understood. Yet i would like to think that rape is beyond me despite any circumstances.

I would also like to thank mabon for her moderation and third eye for his insights. I still think that some things (no matter who "side" committed them) are indefensible. Therefore i would like the mayor in question to retract his comments.

Japan is one of those places,where rape is "acceptable" ,and swept under the carpet. Even now. Business was done by giving and selling women for advancement,for centuries . Things there,no matter how advanced ,don't change quickly when it comes to business.

I actually marvel at how things may seem so advanced there,but are not ,especially if the yakuza has a hand in it .

If a women reports rape ,as its VERY common in the work place ,SHE is the one that is shunned and humiliated .

She usually has to quit her job if she reports the occurances ,which means a very high percentage of rapes are not reported .

Date rape too .

Theres this onecfemale lawyer ,fighting to change this mind set,but she's been at it for over a decade now ,with very little changing .

[spud the mackem]

And the Mayor of Nagasaki said "What the hell was that" when he heard the bomb go off. All Military have committed atrocities at one time or another.All countries are guilty,when they are the aggressors.

[Simbi Laveau]

And the Mayor of Nagasaki said "What the hell was that" when he heard the bomb go off. All Military have committed atrocities at one time or another.All countries are guilty,when they are the aggressors.

Well said spudkins

[SHaYap]

WW2 was a war of young impressionable men going out of their country for the first time in their lives ... with hardly any knowledge of what was in store for them ...

from every country participating in that hellish operation of death ...

[spud the mackem]

Well said spudkins

Tks Simbi , but we are all friends now hopefully,I've been to Japan a few times, Nagasaki,Nagoya,Tokyo,and always found the people respectfull,but you do get a back ache with all the bowing to and fro.And the Saki isn't bad haha. Arigato Simbi San.