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Assad: Israelis Helping Terrorists


AlasBabylon

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you don;t question Mr Walker, you accuse //

YOu don't debate ... you lecture //

And most of all ... you do not realize your discrimination of 'facts' are the form of racism too by way of selective bigotry.

YOu will never change anything, Mr Walker ... yourself and least of all the 'world'

If you expect everything to change but you ... you are contributing nothing and deluded too ...

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Albert would have been so disappointed ...

but then to you probably he won't be allowed in your version of paradise so no rain off your back eh ?

I've aleady changed the world and made the world a better place. I've educated thousands of children, provided a home for 3 generations of homeless children, saved hundreds of lives, and improved the living conditions of thousands more. I've reduced my ecological footprint on the planet to under half that of the average westerner by ecological living and saved a lot of animals around the world from pain and suffering .What have you done?

I am living in the only paradise which exists or ever will exist for me, right now, and have been for 60 years. i do not believ in life after death heaven or hell. it is a paradise because my mind is disciplined, clear, free from worry, guilt, fear, envy, greed or anger. It is filled with love and joy, peace and power. The way I treat people comes back to me from everyone I know and from people all around australia and the world. I am loved and respected. I have purpose and place in my existence. No human can ask for more than that.

Yes I do lecture. I decided I wanted to be a teacher when i was 5 years old. I decided I wanted to change the world before that. Education is the only effective way to change the world long term, although much can be done with physical aid and development.

In life, and on the forums, anyone who prefers to remain ignorant of my opinions can just ignore me. It is my job/ responsibilty to speak, but not to make others take notice. It would worry me not to speak, but it worries me not one jot if no one listens, because that is their choice, and the consequences sheet home to them.

Ps everyone is racist and speciest. I acknowledge this element in myself. A human being is only biologically capable of empathising with less than 150 human beings, so this is a natural evolved trait of humanity although one we must overcome to survive. We evolved grew up as humans owing allegiance to family, clan, tribe, and finally nation.

On the other hand I am one of the few humans who KNOWS that we are all one entity; That we are all connected via the cosmic consciousness. To me other humans are not just my brothers and sisters, they ARE me and I am they.

Ps I am constantly changing, evolving, growing and developing. It is a conscious aim and desire that i work hard to achieve, but also a natural consequence of meeting new challenges in life. I am a totally different person to who I was 50 40 30 20 years ago and even very different to the man I was yesterday. That is the nature of man and of living.

Since last week I have read a dozen books, a dozen newspapers, half a dozen journals and magazines and many tens of thousands of other words. I have listened to a dozen hours of news and current events. I have talked with and listened to hundreds of people. Of course I am very different to who I was last week.

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~snip

On the other hand I am one of the few humans who KNOWS that we are all one entity; That we are all connected via the cosmic consciousness. To me other humans are not just my brothers and sisters, they ARE me and I am they.

~snip

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evidently Gandhi knew of you and your 'one view of reality' way back when ....

your ONE is just that one you want to see in your mirror of illusions ....

for others that knows not of or knows not still there is hope .... we understand,

but you who seems so decided to have known all and everything and only what you know is to be 'is' ...

you are part of that sea of poisonous consciousness that feeds the nightmare.

How is my English Mr Walker ? An unfortunate second Language enough for you ?

for you Mr Walker ... all you will ever know of .... is you that you want to know of ....

whatever else you think or do .... this is all you will ever be ...

how many of Gandhi's warning of the seven dangers to Human Virtues do you see in your mirror ?

'

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Happy birthday and I hope you aren't too depressed. Egypt is indeed somewhat unique in the ME.

My point about democracy is actually the same as yours. Democracy only "sticks" when it is demanded by citizens, not when it is imposed over older traditions by a colonial power.

One solution to the problem of artificial states can be the imposition of a strong state over divided peoples. Another, however, is the division of states into more natural groupings. The colonial powers made a terrible mess in africa, particularly, by just dividing the continent up into new nations from their colonial territories. The balkans showed how artificial hegemonies can violently self destruct once restrictive central controls are removed. As in the balkans, lebanon was, for a long while, phsically divided into territories held by opposing religious groups, with distinct boundaries and no go zones. Today it is nominally united but largely as a puppet state of syria.

The survival of copts in egypt really depends on a democratic state which does not enforce islamic law and beliefs on all its citizens, or a strong non democratic state which protects its minorities.

Thank you for the birthday wishes. Unfortunately, I do find the mess Egypt is in now very depressive; I find myself increasingly trying to avoid reading news from Egypt. Worse than being just a mess, the situation is becoming hopeless and will take decades to fix!

We both agree about 'democracy', but I am still against the idea of total separation. The solution should be a secular state with impartial laws which stand at the same distance from all citizens; in which they are free to practice their faith without infringing on the freedoms of others, and within the parameters set by the law. In cases like Iraq or Lebanon a federal state might be a valid option. A Kurdistan will never be allowed to exist, at least not by Turkey. Also, the 'nation' idea has already taken root. Both Sunni and Shiite Iraqis still identify themselves as 'Iraqis' and as such view themselves as distinct from other Arabs, the same with Syrians, Lebanese...etc. A federal state might therefore be a legitimate option.

As for the Copts, this is a resilient community. Their 'survival' in Egypt is guaranteed. Their numbers might dwindle, but they have survived other epochs of even bloodier persecution. Don't forget that the Copts chose to start their calendar with Anno Martyi (284 AD) commemorating the "Big Persecution" of Diocletian. There will always be Copts in Egypt :)

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That Einstein quote is fabulous, I would use it to describe the current state of affairs in much of the world where so many countries are jumping on the QE bandwagon thinking that more of the same (easy money, exponential debt growth masquerading as economic growth) is the cure to what ails us. And I'm going to print up a poster and put Gandhi's seven virtues on my wall.

If the status quo was so bad for Israel they wouldn't demand more of it and then nail it to the wall with brute force. The status quo for Palestinians IS that bad, and so we get the results that we should expect although they're infinitely more tolerant, patient, and well behaved than Americans would be under their circumstances. Let's not understate the case here. Israel would be a melted bowl of glass if they were pulling that crap on Americans. And excuse me, but we're no "terrorists".

Israel is executing the policies it wants to and it's going to pay the consequences for its greed and inhumanity down the road if karma's the B that I think it is. It will suffer politically and economically and maybe even worse than that. That is the expected outcome, not some surprise that nobody saw coming. Anyone who comes here to talk honestly about "democracy" wouldn't be blind to people with no self-determination to practice it thanks to daily oppression of innocent populations forced by foreign government. It's a pleasant change of subject to discuss reforms in Egypt while 800,000 innocent children are encased in a Zionist stranglehold who have no hope, no job, no future, no freedom of mobility, and no chance of reforms whether we like them or not. Books and pencils, toys and chocolate, cinderblocks and cement have all been a national security threat. Who in their right mind agrees with this nuttery? I wouldn't take anyone seriously who supports Zionist policy and comes and tells me about "democracy". Israel didn't politically agree with the election results of its neighbors and put them under siege for it. There's no greater denial of democracy than tyranny and force control like that. And for the nth time, yes, Israel respects its own democracy, its own freedom, its own laws and its own interests. That is not an excusable change of subject for the terrorism it allows its own military much less the terrorists it's allegedly helping in Syria. Assad is credible thanks to what we've witnessed in plain sight for decades in Palestine.

If the recent past is a good predictor of the future then Israel will continue to help Syrian rebels, Al Qaeda or not. The US and the UK will throw their hats into the ring, Al Qaeda or not. And when Assad (ala Arafat) is toppled, Israel will take advantage of a much weakened neighbor under new political leadership (ala Hamas), and will probably pick up a few more square miles of real estate to develop on for their efforts. The ends of Israel's borders are always a security threat to Zionist bureaucrats after all.

Bragging on anonymous message boards doesn't work. I could tell you guys how I read three books every morning before breakfast, am a world champion martial arts master, an internationally acclaimed gadget maker, how I cook dinner with my feet, and nobody's gonna care. Appealing to oneself is the most primitive of logical fallacies. If self-promotion is the goal, get someone else to do it for you, and even then, we're still way off topic.

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Black red devil

I am going to do this once and one only,

Sorry to cut and paste, but i suspect you do not bother reading links i provide. Here is (some of) the evidence of arab threats against Israel. Now could you find me one occasion please where Israel has threatend to eliminate any arab state or peoples.

"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965

"Brothers, it is our duty to prepare for the final battle in Palestine." – Nasser, Palestine Day, 1967

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein

"We are now ready to confront Israel .... The issue now at hand is not the Gulf of Aqaba, the Straits of Tiran, or the withdrawal of UNEF, but the ... aggression which took place in Palestine ... with the collaboration of Britain and the United States." – Nasser, June 2, 1967

"Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria is in a position to cut Israel in two at Kalkilya, where Israeli territory between the Jordan armistice line and the Mediterranean Sea is only twelve kilometers wide ... ." – El Akhbar newspaper, Cairo, May 31, 1967

Cairo Radio Statements:

May 19, 1967: "This is our chance Arabs, to deal Israel a mortal blow of annihilation, to blot out its entire presence in our holy land"

May 22, 1967: "The Arab people is firmly resolved to wipe Israel off the map"

May 25, 1967: "The Gulf of Aqaba, by the dictum of history and the protection of our soldiers, is Arab, Arab, Arab."

May 25, 1967: "Millions of Arabs are ... preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America."

May 27, 1967: "We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel's death and annihilation."

May 30, 1967: "With the closing of the Gulf of Akaba, Israel is faced with two alternatives either of which will destroy it; it will either be strangled to death by the Arab military and economic boycott, or it will perish by the fire of the Arab forces encompassing it from the South from the North and from the East."

May 30, 1967: "The world will know that the Arabs are girded for battle as the fateful hour approaches."

Jordan

"All of the Arab armies now surround Israel. The UAR, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Sudan, and Kuwait. ... There is no difference between one Arab people and another, no difference between one Arab army and another." – King Hussein of Jordan,after signing the pact with Egypt May 30, 1967

Iraq

"The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear – to wipe Israel off the map. We shall, God willing, meet in Tel Aviv and Haifa." – President Abdel Rahman Aref of Iraq, May 31, 1967

Palestinians

"D-Day is approaching. The Arabs have waited 19 years for this and will not flinch from the war of liberation." – Ahmed Shukairy, Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization, May 27, 1967

"This is a fight for the homeland – it is either us or the Israelis. There is no middle road. The Jews of Palestine will have to leave. We will facilitate their departure to their former homes. Any of the old Palestine Jewish population who survive may stay, but it is my impression that none of them will survive." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967

"We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for the survivors – if there are any – the boats are ready to deport them." – Shukairy, June 1, 1967, speaking at a Friday sermon in Jerusalem

Syria

Syria's forces are "ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united.... I as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." – Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad, May 20, 1967

"Our two brotherly countries have turned into one mobilized force. The withdrawal of the UN forces ... means 'make way, our forces are on their way to battle.'" – Foreign Minister Makhous on his return from Cairo

Others

"The freedom of the homeland will be completed by the destruction of the Zionist entity and the expulsion of the Americans and the British from the region." – Algerian Prime Minister Houari Boumedienne

"We want war. War is the only way to settle the problem of Israel. The Arabs are ready." – Yemeni Foreign Minister Salam

General References

1) Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Mitchell G. Bard, 2001

2) Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Martin Gilbert, 1993

3) Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East, Michael B. Oren, 2002

Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.”

- Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem

(Radio Berlin, March 1, 1944; quoted in Robert Wistrich, Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p47)

“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.”

- Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League

(Akhbar al-Yom, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2011)

“If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.”

- Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder

(New York Times, August 2, 1948)

“In demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves, or to put it more clearly – the intention is the extermination of Israel.”

- Salah al-Din, Egyptian Foreign Minister

(Al-Misri, Egypt, October 11, 1949; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“Israel, to the Arab world, is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it just like a cancer… Had we united then [in 1948] Israel would not have come into existence. Israel is a serious wound in the Arab world body, and we cannot endure the pain of this wound forever. We don’t have the patience to see Israel remain occupying part of Palestine for long… We Arabs total about 50,000,000. Why don’t we sacrifice 10,000,000 of our number to live in pride and self-respect?”

- King Saud of Saudi Arabia

(New York Times, January 10, 1954)

“Is not Israel’s isolation a natural result of her racial artificiality, a patchwork society of German, Polish, East European recruits, of her cultural and political singularity, and to the fact that she does not belong, and should not belong to that part of the Arab world upon which she was imposed by outside force? … No international intrigue, no force whatsoever can oblige the Arabs to accept the intruders whose hands are still stained with the blood of other Arabs…”

- M. Samir Ahmed, Egyptian Embassy Press Secretary

(Letter, Washington Post, September 20, 1955)

“We are awaiting aggression by Israel and any supporters of Israel. We will make it a decisive battle and get rid of Israel once and for all… This is the dream of every Arab.”

- Gamal Abdel Nasser, President of Egypt

(Washington Post, July 27, 1959)

“If the refugees return to Israel – Israel will cease to exist.”

- Gamal Abdel Nasser

(Zuercher Woche, West Germany, September 1, 1961; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“... collective Arab military preparations, when they are completed, will constitute the ultimate practical means for the final liquidation of Israel.”

- Arab League

(Summit Declaration, January 1964; quoted in Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World [Penguin, 2001], p230)

“Our path to Palestine will not be covered with a red carpet or with yellow sand. Our path to Palestine will be covered with blood… In order that we may liberate Palestine, the Arab nation must unite, the Arab armies must unite, and a unified plan of action must be established.”

- Gamal Abdel Nasser

(Pre-election speech, 1965; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History [Yale University Press, 2007], p162)

“The day on which the Arab hope for the return of the refugees to Palestine is realized will be the day of Israel’s extermination.”

- Abdallah al-Yafi, Lebanese Prime Minister

(Al-Hayat, April 29, 1966; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“We have decided to drench this land with our blood, to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.”

- Syrian government broadcast

(Radio Damascus, May 24, 1966; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p59)

“We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.”

- Syrian government broadcast

(Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p42)

“We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel’s death and annihilation.”

- Egyptian government broadcast

(Voice of the Arabs, May 16, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p82)

“The Zionist barrack in Palestine is about to collapse and be destroyed… Every one of the hundred million Arabs has been living for the past nineteen years on one hope - to live to see the day Israel is liquidated… There is no life, no peace nor hope for the gangs of Zionism to remain in the occupied land.”

- Egyptian government broadcast

(Voice of the Arabs, May 18, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p105)

“It is our chance, Arabs, to direct a blow of death and annihilation to Israel and all its presence in our Holy Land. It is a war for which we are waiting and in which we shall triumph.”

- Egyptian government broadcast

(Voice of the Arabs, May 19, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p105)

“[syrian forces are ready for] the liberation operation to explode Zionist existence.”

- Hafez Assad, Syrian Defence Minister

(New York Times, May 21, 1967)

“... the time has come to get rid of the Zionist cancer in Palestine.”

- Taher Yahia, Vice-Premier of Iraq

(New York Times, May 21, 1967)

“Fight, Arabs. Let them know that we shall hang the last imperialist soldier with the entrails of the last Zionist.”

- Syrian government broadcast

(Radio Damascus, May 23, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p59)

“Israel lacks the strength to endure against the Arabs even for one hour. The Arab people’s decision is unfaltering: to wipe Israel off the face of the map…”

- Syrian government broadcast

(Radio Damascus, May 23, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p79)

“We knew that by closing the Gulf of Aqaba it might mean war with Israel. [if war comes] it will be total and the objective will be to destroy Israel.”

- Gamal Abdel Nasser

(Washington Post, May 27, 1967)

“The hour has come to end Israel’s existence.”

- Sheikh Ahmed Kaftaro, Grand Mufti of Syria

(New York Times, May 28, 1967)

“With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”

- Egyptian government broadcast

(Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p79)

“We shall destroy Israel and those behind Israel.”

- General Tahar Zbiri, Algerian Chief of Staff

(New York Times, May 28, 1967)

“Whoever survives will stay in Palestine, but in my opinion, no-one will remain alive.”

- Ahmed Shuqayri, PLO founder

(Al-Yawm, Lebanon, June 3, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?’” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p72)

“Strike the enemy’s settlements, turn them into dust, pave the Arab roads with the skulls of Jews.”

- Hafez Assad

(Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p293)

“By God, if it is decreed that we have to wade through seven seas of blood and that the whole region has to sink in blood to get revenge for its honor and dignity, then we will wade through the seas of blood.”

- Syrian government broadcast

(Radio Damascus, June 11, 1967, quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p118)

“The operation of liberation is not merely removing an imperialistic base, but what is more important: the extermination of a society; not only is military defeat the aim in the Palestinian war of liberation, but the liquidation of the Zionist character of the occupied land, whether in manpower or in society.”

- Fatah statement

(Liberation of the Occupied Lands and the Method of Struggle Against Direct Colonialism, September 1967; quoted in Y. Harkabi, The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning [Vallentine Mitchell, 1979], pp47-8)

“The real Palestine problem is the existence of Israel in Palestine. As long as a Zionist existence remains even in a tiny part of it - that will mean occupation. The important thing is to liquidate the Israel occupation, and there is no difference between the territories lately occupied and those occupied before.”

- Egyptian government broadcast

(Radio Cairo, March 17, 1968, quoted in Gil Carl AlRoy, “Do the Arabs Want Peace?” Commentary, February 1974)

“The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the State of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time…” (Article 19); “The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.” (Article 20); “… the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence…” (Article 22).

- PLO Covenant

(Palestine National Council, July 1-17, 1968; reprinted Y. Harkabi, The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning [Vallentine Mitchell, 1979])

“There is no room in the Middle East for Arab nationalism and Zionist nationalism… in the Middle East there is no room for the Arab nation and Israel…”

- Mohammed Heikal, Nasser’s adviser and spokesman

(Al-Ahram, February 21, 1969; quoted in Yehoshafat Harkabi, Palestinians and Israel [Keter Books, 1974], p1)

“We must fight our way to victory on a sea of blood and a horizon of fire.”

- Gamal Abdel Nasser

(Wall Street Journal, November 14, 1969)

“I believe that we now have a duty to remove the aggressor from our land and to regain the Arab territory occupied by the Israelis. We can then engage in a clandestine struggle to liberate the land of Palestine, to liberate Haifa and Jaffa.”

- Gamal Abdel Nasser

(Meeting with King Hussein, 1970; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History [Yale University Press, 2007], p172)

“We shall never stop until we can go back home and Israel is destroyed… The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromises or mediations… the goal of this violence is the elimination of Zionism from Palestine in all its political, economic and military aspects… We don’t want peace, we want victory. Peace for us means Israel’s destruction and nothing else. ”

- Yasser Arafat, PLO chairman

(Washington Post, March 29, 1970)

“There are only two specific Arab goals at present: elimination of the consequences of the 1967 aggression through Israel’s withdrawal from all the lands it occupied that year, and elimination of the consequences of the 1948 aggression through the eradication of Israel. The second goal is not, in fact, specific but abstract, and some of us make the mistake of starting with the second step instead of the first… we should learn from the enemy how to move step by step.”

- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman

(Al-Ahram, February 25, 1971; quoted in Theodore Draper, “The Road to Geneva,” Commentary, February 1974)

“If the political efforts succeed and some sort of a political solution is found which will eliminate the traces of aggression, this would by no means bring an end to our struggle against Zionism and imperialism, and will by no means bring a happy conclusion to our fateful battle against the United States and Israel, because no political settlement whatsoever could eliminate the basic contradiction which exists – and will continue to exist – between the Arab nation on the one hand and American imperialism and Zionism on the other… As long as the racist colonialist entity continues to burden the usurped land of Palestine, there will be a ‘focus’ for threat, expansion and aggression, a ‘center’ for counter-revolution, and a ‘broadcasting station’ for psychological warfare. Thus a political solution cannot by any means bring an end to the battle against the enemy.”

- Ahmed Nabil al-Hilali, Arab Socialist Union, Egypt

(Al-Katib, March 1971; quoted in Yehoshafat Harkabi, Palestinians and Israel [Keter Books, 1974], pp146-7)

“Once again, total Israeli withdrawal, if it were to take place, would be tantamount to showing that military strength is irrelevant to the outcome of the conflict… If you could succeed in bringing it about, you would have passed sentence on the entire state of Israel.”

- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman

(Interview, Journal of Palestine Studies, Autumn 1971, p7)

“The books published about Hitler depict him as a scoundrel who turned on other nations… his favourite dish seems to have been the Jews. He burned and drowned them because they are traitors to every land… People all over the world have come to realise that Hitler was right, since Jews respect neither law, religion, nor moral values. They are bloodsuckers and interested in destroying the whole world so that Israel shall remain. They are interested in destroying the whole world which has thrust them out of its midst, expelled them and despised them for centuries… and burned them in Hitler’s crematoria… one million… two million… six million.”

- Anis Mansour, Sadat’s associate and government commentator

(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, August 19, 1973; quoted in New York Times, October 21, 1973)

“The demand for an Israeli withdrawal from all the occupied Arab territory is a partial demand which the Arab states call for as part of a general liberation plan whose purpose is to bring an end to the racist colonial presence in Palestine…”

- Egyptian government editorial

(Al-Gomhouria, Egypt, September 25, 1973; quoted in New York Times, October 21, 1973)

“Our forces continue to pursue the enemy and strike at him and will continue to strike at enemy forces until we regain our positions in our occupied land and continue then until we liberate the whole land.”

- Hafez Assad, President of Syria

(Radio Damascus, October 15, 1973; reprinted in Walter Laqueur, ed., The Israel-Arab Reader [bantam Books, rev. ed., 1976], p459)

“The issue is not just the liberation of the Arab territories occupied since June 5, 1967, but strikes against the future of Israel more powerfully and in a more profound manner, although this is not obvious right now. This means that if the Arabs are able to liberate their territories occupied since June 5, 1967 by force, what can prevent them in the next stage from liberating Palestine itself by force?”

- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman

(Al-Ahram, October 19, 1973; quoted in Theodore Draper, “The Road to Geneva,” Commentary, February 1974; Gil Carl AlRoy, “Do the Arabs Want Peace?” Commentary, February 1974)

“All our moves are based on four general principles: continued use of the rifle, no waiving of historical rights, no peace, and no negotiations… Whatever form of government is established in the territory when the shadow of occupation passes away, whenever I address my fighters and revolutionaries, I shall say: ‘Let our rifles be aimed at the beloved land, the land of the homeland, the land of Palestine.’”

- Yasser Arafat

(Al-Safir, Beirut, March 26, 1974; Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1974, pp212-3)

“The [Palestine] Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated” (Article 2); “Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory…” (Article 8).

- PLO Phased Plan

(Wafa, Beirut, June 9, 1974; Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1974, p224)

“The effort of our generation is to return to the 1967 borders. Afterward the next generation will carry the responsibility.”

- Anwar Sadat, President of Egypt

(Al-Anwar, June 22, 1975; quoted in Y. Harkabi, Arab Strategies and Israel’s Response [Free Press, 1977], p55)

Q: “Are you saying that if Israel withdraws to its pre-’67 borders and recognizes the national rights of the Palestinians to a separate state of your own, the Palestine Liberation Organization would be prepared to accept the reality of Israel’s existence?”

A: “No, I am saying that the Israelis have two choices: to let all the Palestinians return to their land and have this democratic state we propose, or to live in this so-called state of Israel without letting the Palestinians return. If they choose the latter, they will surely die and we will surely win… this Zionist ghetto of Israel must be destroyed… We will unite the whole region in one state, not just Palestine.”

- Farouk Kaddoumi, Director of the PLO Political Department

(Newsweek, January 5, 1976)

“Let us all die, let us all be killed, let us all be assassinated, but we will not recognize Israel.”

- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad), PLO deputy leader

(New York Times, February 17, 1976)

“Israel is an alien body in the Arab sea. This body is bound to disappear given the effective medicine – a united Arab front.”

- Abu Hassan, PLO representative

(Foreign Broadcast Information Service, September 26, 1977; quoted in The New Republic, October 18, 1980)

“I want to tell Carter and Begin that when the Arabs set off their volcano there will be only Arabs in this part of the world… Our people will continue to fuel the torch of the revolution with rivers of blood until the whole of the occupied homeland is liberated, the whole of the homeland is liberated, not just a part of it.”

- Yasser Arafat

(Associated Press, March 12, 1979)

“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.”

- Yasser Arafat

(El Mundo, Venezuela, February 11, 1980; The Times, UK, August 5, 1980)

“Fatah is a nationalist revolutionary movement bent on the complete liberation of Palestine [and] the liquidation of the Zionist entity economically, militarily, politically, culturally and intellectually…”

- Fatah Congress resolution

(Associated Press, June 5, 1980)

“Without any doubt the PLO is entirely in agreement with the [Fatah] resolution… We wish at any price to liquidate the State of Israel.”

- Ibrahim Souss, PLO representative

(Europe No. 1 Radio, France, June 16, 1980; The Times, UK, August 5, 1980)

“We shall never allow Israel to live in peace… We shall never recognize Israel, never accept the usurper, the colonialist, the imperialist.”

- Farouk Kaddoumi

(Der Stern, West Germany, July 30, 1981)

“The establishment of a Palestinian state over part of the Palestinian soil does not amount to a renunciation of the strategic aim. It is a pity that Israel realizes that… and knows that the establishment of such a state constitutes the reassertion of Palestinian identity and the beginning of the end for Israel.”

- Shafiq al-Hut, Director of the PLO’s Beirut office

(Al-Anba, Kuwait, March 20, 1983; quoted in Barry Rubin, Revolution Until Victory? The Politics and History of the PLO [Harvard University Press, 1994], p70)

“The Palestinian people will achieve an independent Palestinian state which will be the start of the liberation of the entire homeland. This is the beginning of the liberation and not its end or a halt along the borders of that state. The Palestinian state which shall arise shall be the beginning of the end of Israel.”

- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)

(Al-Qabas, Kuwait, November 10, 1984; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate For Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [shapolsky Books, 1989], pp398-9)

“The Prophet of Allah… says: ‘The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim or Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him…’” (Article 7); “They are behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions here and there which we have heard of and are hearing of. With wealth they formed secret organizations throughout the world to destroy societies and promote the Zionist cause; these organizations included the Freemasons, the Rotary and Lions clubs, and others... They are behind the First World War… They are behind the Second World War…” (Article 22); “the Zionist plan has no bounds, and after Palestine they wish to expand from the Nile River to the Euphrates… such is their plan in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” (Article 32).

- Hamas Covenant

(Gaza, August 18, 1988; reprinted in Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1993, pp122-34)

“Palestine, whose shape resembles a dagger, doesn’t know the meaning of partition. Our independence does not mean the partition of the dagger, but rather, its penetration into the soil of the homeland… Those who expect the collapse of the Zionist structure through one decisive hit… don’t realize how the masses create their own power through a sequence of interrelated historical phases.”

- Ahmed Abd a-Rahman, Fatah chief spokesman

(Falastin al-Thawra, November 27, 1988; Jerusalem Post, December 21, 1988)

“The borders of our state… represent only a part of our national aspirations. We will strive to expand them so as to realize our ambition for the entire territory of Palestine.”

- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)

(Al-Anba, Kuwait, December 5, 1988; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Arafat’s War: The Man and his Battle for Israeli Conquest [Grove Press, 2003], p51)

“The establishment of a Palestinian state on any part of Palestine is but a step toward the whole of Palestine.”

- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)

(Al-Anba, Kuwait, December 13, 1988; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Arafat’s War: The Man and his Battle for Israeli Conquest [Grove Press, 2003], p51)

“It is [an] incontrovertible fact that Palestine is Arab-Islamic and that the Jews are the scum of humanity that gathered from the four corners of the earth and conquered our land… Treachery flows in their blood, as the Quran testifies.”

- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)

(Al-Qabas, November 28, 1989; quoted in Barry Rubin, Revolution Until Victory? The Politics and History of the PLO [Harvard University Press, 1994], p180)

“... the so-called ‘State of Israel’ was one of the consequences of World War II and should disappear, like the Berlin Wall has along with the other consequences of that war.”

- Yasser Arafat, joint statement with Colonel Gaddafi

(BBC Summary of World Broadcasts, January 8, 1990)

“You Germans have great expertise in the killing of Jews with gas. This interests us in the same way… How [can] this knowledge… be used to destroy Israel?”

- General Amer al-Saadi, Iraqi chemical weapons commander

(Kenneth Timmerman, The Death Lobby [bantam Books, 1992], p81)

“It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.”

- Hezbollah statement, issued under Islamic Jihad alias

(United Press International, March 24, 1992)

“We have to accept the [Oslo] deal and wait for a change in the circumstances that could lead to the elimination of Israel.”

- Abu el-Aynayn, PLO commander in Rashidieh, Lebanon

(US News and World Report, September 27, 1993)

“We will not lay down our weapons until complete liberation... Sooner or later we will throw the Zionists into the sea.”

- Lt. Col. Munir Maqdah, PLO commander in Lebanon

(Reuters, October 8, 1993)

“Palestine cannot contain the two of us. It is either us or the Zionists.”

- Abu Imad, PLO military commander in Bourj al-Barajneh, Lebanon

(Jerusalem Report, November 18, 1993)

“The Palestinian people know there is a state that was established through coercion and it must be destroyed.”

- Farouk Kaddoumi

(Reuters, Yediot Aharonot, August 10, 1994)

“The PLO will now concentrate on splitting Israel psychologically into two camps... We plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a Palestinian state. We will make life unbearable for Jews by psychological warfare and population explosion. Jews will not want to live among Arabs. I have no use for Jews. They are and remain Jews. We now need all the help we can get from you in our battle for a united Palestine under Arab rule.”

- Yasser Arafat, speech to Arab diplomats in Stockholm

(Jerusalem Post, February 23, 1996)

“We are sure of our victory against the Americans and the Jews as promised by the Prophet: Judgment day shall not come until the Muslim fights the Jew, where the Jew will hide behind trees and stones, and the tree and the stone will speak and say, ‘Muslim, behind me is a Jew. Come and kill him.’”

- Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda leader

(Esquire, February 1999)

“... the criminals, the terrorists - are the Jews… They are the ones who must be butchered and killed, as Allah the Almighty said: ‘Fight them: Allah will torture them at your hands, and will humiliate them and will help you to overcome them’ … Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them.”

- Dr Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Palestinian Authority cleric

(Palestinian Authority Television, October 13, 2000)

“Thanks to Hitler, of blessed memory, who… revenged in advance, against the most vile criminals on the face of the earth. Although we do have a complaint against him, for his revenge on them was not enough.”

- Egyptian government newspaper

(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, April 18, 2001; repeated on April 25, 2001)

“[This is] an exceptional historic opportunity to finish off the entire cancerous Zionist project.”

- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader

(Financial Times, Europe Edition, April 25, 2001)

“No one can ask why Hitler punished the Jews… Did Hitler attack the Jews or did their crime deserve even more?”

- Egyptian government newspaper

(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, May 27, 2001)

“Palestine is Arab and must be liberated from the river to the sea and all the Zionists who emigrated to the land of Palestine must leave.”

- Saddam Hussein, Iraqi dictator

(Iraqi Television, May 30, 2001; quoted in Robert Wistrich, Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p43)

“We are ambushing the Israelis and cheating them… If we agree to declare our state over what is now 22 percent of Palestine, meaning the West Bank and Gaza, our ultimate goal is the liberation of all historic Palestine from the River to the Sea… We distinguish the strategic, long-term goals from the political phased goals, which we are compelled to temporarily accept due to international pressure.”

- Faisal Husseini, PLO strategist

(Al-Arabi, Egypt, June 24, 2001; Jerusalem Report, July 30, 2001)

“The nature of the Zionist regime is aggressive and the arrival of Ariel Sharon in power has complicated the situation, but the intifada is the countdown for the destruction of Israel.”

- Abdel Halim Khaddam, Vice-President of Syria

(Agence France Presse, July 25, 2001)

“All spears should be directed at the Jews, at the enemies of Allah, the nation that was cursed in Allah’s book. Allah has described them as apes and pigs... We blow them up in Hadera, we blow them up in Tel Aviv and in Netanya… until the Jew will hide behind a stone or a tree, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, a Jew is hiding behind me, come kill him.”

- Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority cleric

(Palestinian Authority Television, August 3, 2001)

“... we believe that one of these days, we will enter Jerusalem as conquerors, enter Jaffa as conquerors, enter Haifa as conquerors, enter Ramle and Lod as conquerors… we are convinced that our dead go to Paradise, while the dead of the Jews go to Hell… Oh Allah, show the Jews a black day… Oh Allah, annihilate the Jews and their supporters… Oh Allah, raise the flag of Jihad across the land…”

- Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority cleric

(Palestinian Authority Television, April 12, 2002)

“If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”

- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader

(Daily Star, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)

“[The Jews] are accursed in heaven and on earth. They are accursed from the day the human race was created and from the day their mothers bore them… These accursed ones are a catastrophe for the human race. They are the virus of the generation, doomed to a life of humiliation and wretchedness… they are the plague of the generation and the bacterium of all time… Thus, the Jews are accursed - the Jews of our time, those who preceded them and those who will come after them, if any Jews come after them. With regard to the fraud of the Holocaust… I, personally and in light of this imaginary tale, complain to Hitler, even saying to him from the bottom of my heart, ‘If only you had done it, brother, if only it had really happened, so that the world could sigh in relief…’”

- Egyptian government newspaper

(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, April 29, 2002)

“As for the bomb being chemical and poisonous, that was an invention by the evil Jordanian intelligence... God knows that should we - and we ask God to shortly empower us to - possess that kind of bomb, we would not hesitate one second to use it on Israeli cities.”

- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Jordanian terrorist leader

(Washington Post, September 27, 2004)

“... the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers… the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations… The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world – except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history… The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.”

- Sheikh Ibrahim Mudeiris, Palestinian Authority cleric

(Palestinian Authority Television, May 13, 2005)

“Allah’s promise and the Prophet’s prophecy of our victory in Palestine over the Jews and over the oppressive Zionists has begun to come true... Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day... Allah willing, we will make them lose their eyesight, we will make them lose their brains.”

- Khaled Mashal, Hamas leader

(Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006)

“My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but Allah, we will chase you everywhere! We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no blood better than the blood of Jews. We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children’s thirst with your blood.”

- Hamas broadcast

(Jerusalem Post, February 17, 2006)

“Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. It is an animal state that recognises no human worth. It is a cancer that should be eradicated.”

- Ghazi Hamad, Hamas spokesman

(BBC, November 8, 2006)

“Israel is weaker than a spider web. The future of Israel is death and perdition... Our martyrs inscribed in blood during the July-August war: Death to Israel.”

- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah

(Al-Manar TV, January 30, 2007)

“Rest assured that the day the American forces leave Iraq, the Israelis will leave the region along with them... This is because the annihilation of the Zionist regime has begun... The moment they leave Iraq, you, the Muslims of the world, can walk into Palestine, because Israel will no longer exist.”

- Abdallah Safialdeen, Hezbollah representative in Iran

(Channel 4, Iranian TV, March 4, 2007)

“Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one.”

- Ahmad Bahr, Palestinian Legislative Council acting speaker

(Sudan TV, April 13, 2007)

“The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.”

- Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon

(Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)

“By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.”

- Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia

(Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)

“The treacherous Zionist enemy will never permit us to lessen our revenge towards him or stray from our confrontation against him, until he is wiped off this land, which is saturated with the blood of the martyrs.”

- Ahmad Dahbour, Palestinian Authority propagandist

(Jerusalem Post, March 23, 2008)

“Strike the interests of Jews and Americans, and all those who wield aggression against the Muslims. Today no one can say that we are battling the Jews in Palestine alone.”

- Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda leader

(Associated Press, March 24, 2008)

“The PLO... has not changed its platform even one iota... the Israeli ideology will collapse in its entirety, and we will begin to progress with our own ideology, Allah willing, and drive them out of all of Palestine.”

- Abbas Zaki, Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon

(NBN TV, April 9, 2008)

“I am optimistic that within ten years, Israel will come to its end.”

- Riyad Nasan al-Agha, Syrian Minister of Culture

(Al-Hiwar TV, April 19, 2008)

“Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.”

- Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza

(UPI, May 14, 2008)

[Last updated May 14, 2008]4.0%3B%20GTB7.4%3B%20.NET%20CLR%202.0.50727%3B%20.NET%20CLR%203.0.4506.2152%3B%20.NET%20CLR%203.5.30729%29&s=1024x768&o=Win32&c=16&j=true&v=1.2

Totally OTT I know, but really the length of the list, in it self, says it all. And the contents are absolutely irrefutable in their validity and meaning. Sincerely hope this provides you with enough quotes/evidentiary material to be going on with for a while. :innocent:

Finally, some context to the claims. I had a look at where you got the first statement from and it, plus half the rest, were taken from the same site which was the only link you provided.

The site is called the Six Day War and is a production of the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA). When you look into the info about CAMERA (through Contact Us), you get this:

The scope of the problem

Inaccurate and distorted accounts of events in Israel and the Middle East are to be found everywhere from college radio stations to network television, from community newspapers to national magazines, and, of course, on the Internet. In recent years misinformation about the Middle East has also surfaced in fashion magazines, architectural publications, encyclopedias, professional reference works, geography textbooks, travel guides, and even dictionaries. Frequently inaccurate and skewed characterizations of Israel and of events in the Middle East may fuel anti-Israel and anti-Jewish prejudice.

Your whole post is a biased and yes, why not, a skewed characterisation of events. I haven't got time now but I will analyse the info and get back to you. At this point, the only assumption I can draw from the statements you've provided, from a dubious and biased source, is that they are either bolony (maybe not) or taken completely out of context without taking in consideration the circumstances (very likely). If you google the first statement the only links you get are Jerusalem Post, Jewish Virtual Library, Israel forum etc. :P

You see Mr Walker, the difference between me and you is, I'm prepared to look at evidence provided. You just ignore the evidence I provide, I never get a response and finally you cunningly try to divert the argument to a more confortable line of discussion which suits you after you've annoyed me to death with your lengthy sermons.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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People cling to their guns and religion and fight back when they're oppressed? I'm shocked! But as Mr. Walker well knows, these are Muslims+Arabs+Palestinians, and so that's not cool! I'm just so repulsed by foreigners fighting back against governments that I've been told 1,000 times are my best friend in the world, I too must know nothing about US history and how or why it's even possible that I'm living where I do today.

The conflict between oppressor and oppressed will continue (and by extension, all the little boogers that can be picked out of a conflict) so long as the Zionist policy of religio-ethnic occupation/migration/settlement/development continues. My queue to care doesn't begin when Palestinians are so beaten they can't even look up at the sky anymore and it doesn't end when some public figure or bureaucrat speaks of the end of Israel or the Zionist regime.

The only good reason our noses are up the ME's butt is oil, i.e. there is no good reason.

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**“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out.” Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979

**"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"

David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

**"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."

-- David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

**"We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai."

David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

**"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist... There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

**"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum."

**"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

**"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

** "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969.

** “We don't have a solution, and you will continue living like dogs, and whoever wants will go, and will see how this procedure will work out. For now, it works out. Moshe Dayan speaking of the Palestinians, in Mehiro shel Ihud (Revivim, 1985) by Yossi Beilin, p. 42

**"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

** "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000.

** " (The Palestinians are) beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

** "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988.

** Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

** "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

** "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

** "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

** "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 (Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1).

** "We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not...You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world." (Chaim Weizmann, Published in "Judische Rundschau," No. 4, 1920).

**Partition: "after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine "

-- Ben Gurion, p.22 "The Birth of Israel, 1987" Simha Flapan.

**“It is not in our hands to prevent the murder of workers… and families… but it is in our hands to fix a high price for our blood, so high that the Arab community and the Arab military forces will not be willing to pay it.” Moshe Dayan as quoted in Warrior : The Autobiography of Ariel Sharon (1989)

**”In two cases I did not fulfill my role as defense minister, in that I did not stop things that I was sure should have been stopped.” Moshe Dayan on Israeli settlements on the Golan Heights and in Hebron, in a 1976 interview with Rami Tal, as quoted in Associated Press reports (11 May 1997)

** "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."

Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983

**"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We the Jewish people, control America and the Americans know it." Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, speaking to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

** "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters"

Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

** "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail" Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994

There is a lot more but I’ll stop here.

Ok, so now that we’ve established there is hatred on both sides and there is plenty of material on the internet, books etc. showing this, whether all these quotes (yours and mine) are true or not, we move forward to the fundamental questions which you’ve previously failed to answer Mr Walker:

· Although their right of return is guaranteed under international law, Israel has refused to allow those who fled and their descendents to return to what is rightfully their own land. Mr Walker...?

· Since WWII there is a thing called Territorial integrity. Border changes and annexing territory such as areas in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan Hts is illegal under international law. Mr Walker...?

· Under international law the CURRENT land blockade of Gaza is illegal. Mr Walker....?

· The International Court of Justice has ruled the building of settlements in the West Bank illegal under international law and a hindrance to the peace process. Mr Walker.....?

Edited by Black Red Devil
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On the other hand I am one of the few humans who KNOWS that we are all one entity;

:unsure2: One of the few humans WHO KNOWS??!! :blink: Why, who told you??

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:unsure2: One of the few humans WHO KNOWS??!! :blink: Why, who told you??

Why ... Mr Walker .. of course //

:tu:

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What I detect in those quotes is a new nation being formed and it's initial leaders realizing that if they do not act in a brutal fashion to establish themselves and secure a place for themselves then their people might not survive the next madman that comes against them.....just for being what they were born to be. No other crime than that. How would you try to survive? What would you do?

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People cling to their guns and religion and fight back when they're oppressed? I'm shocked! But as Mr. Walker well knows, these are Muslims+Arabs+Palestinians, and so that's not cool! I'm just so repulsed by foreigners fighting back against governments that I've been told 1,000 times are my best friend in the world, I too must know nothing about US history and how or why it's even possible that I'm living where I do today.

The conflict between oppressor and oppressed will continue (and by extension, all the little boogers that can be picked out of a conflict) so long as the Zionist policy of religio-ethnic occupation/migration/settlement/development continues. My queue to care doesn't begin when Palestinians are so beaten they can't even look up at the sky anymore and it doesn't end when some public figure or bureaucrat speaks of the end of Israel or the Zionist regime.

The only good reason our noses are up the ME's butt is oil, i.e. there is no good reason.

Yamato, it is truly embarrassing to see you display your ignorance again. Where do you get this bizarre stuff from.... CAIR publications? Al Manar TV? Conspiracy sites?

Fact is, Israel is the only democratic country in the area in the Middle East, and the only one the West has any reason to support.

And no, Israel obviously has no bone in this fight -- neither Iran supported Assad regime nor the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood/Al Quaeda rebels which want to replace it are favourable to Israel. Of course, Assad is interested in turning the civil war in Syria into a common war against Israel --- that is simply regime survival. Saddam Hussein did the same, remember?

(Err no... Strike that. Of course asking you to remember historical context is asking the impossible..)

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No Mr walker. You are just a gullible old fool that can't or doesn't want to look past the length of his own nose. You have been indoctrinated so much by false western media that it's almost traumatic for you to even contemplate the thought you've been hoodwinked all these years. So, your next best reaction is to try to convince yourself first and everybody else after, that you are right.

It's almost painful to read your posts, you can almost see the struggle within.

LOL

No pal. Clearly it is you who has been hoodwinked by islamist/leftist propaganda (which ironically also co-incides with nazi propaganda.... I guess we can call that a sort of unholy trinity).

You calling other people gullible fools is rich.

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Fact is, Israel is the only democratic country in the area in the Middle East, and the only one the West has any reason to support.

Israel is a "Jewish state and democracy".

Please note: Isreael is a Jewish state first. And a democracy second.

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LOL

No pal. Clearly it is you who has been hoodwinked by islamist/leftist propaganda (which ironically also co-incides with nazi propaganda.... I guess we can call that a sort of unholy trinity).

You calling other people gullible fools is rich.

Speaking of guillibility? Is this MichaelW, btw?

Israel’s Identity Crisis: The practical difficulties of a Jewish and democratic state

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LOL

No pal. Clearly it is you who has been hoodwinked by islamist/leftist propaganda (which ironically also co-incides with nazi propaganda.... I guess we can call that a sort of unholy trinity).

You calling other people gullible fools is rich.

LMFAO. And THIS post is your contribution to the thread??? Thanks for enlightening us with your two cents worth.....

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Fact is, Israel is the only democratic country in the area in the Middle East,

:w00t: Have you been hibernating for the last 40 years?

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What I detect in those quotes is a new nation being formed and it's initial leaders realizing that if they do not act in a brutal fashion to establish themselves and secure a place for themselves then their people might not survive the next madman that comes against them.....just for being what they were born to be. No other crime than that. How would you try to survive? What would you do?

Not sure if ethnically cleansing another population for the possession of more territory can be considered a morally acceptable decision. What do you think?

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Not sure if ethnically cleansing another population for the possession of more territory can be considered a morally acceptable decision. What do you think?

What rubbish.....
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What rubbish.....

What is rubbish is the belief that God is gathering together his "chosen" in order to destroy 2/3 of them.

Only problem here is that over 50% of them are choosing to live in disaspora and those emigrating out of Israel is rising.

I guess God will have to settle for the destruction of about one quarter or one third of his "chosen".

Imagine the crisis Israel will face demographically if 2/3 of Israel perishes. It is definitely time to pull up the stakes and leave the occupied territories as 2 million Jews living amongst 8-9 million Palestinians(?} or 5 million Palestinian refugees or 1.5 million "Israeli Arabs". Or as Yoda would say, "A balance in the Force, I foresee".

Common sense!

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What is rubbish is the belief that God is gathering together his "chosen" in order to destroy 2/3 of them.

Only problem here is that over 50% of them are choosing to live in disaspora and those emigrating out of Israel is rising.

I guess God will have to settle for the destruction of about one quarter or one third of his "chosen".

Imagine the crisis Israel will face demographically if 2/3 of Israel perishes. It is definitely time to pull up the stakes and leave the occupied territories as 2 million Jews living amongst 8-9 million Palestinians(?} or 5 million Palestinian refugees or 1.5 million "Israeli Arabs". Or as Yoda would say, "A balance in the Force, I foresee".

Common sense!

It's a test of wills. My money is on those who REALLY have a claim to the land and an incentive to die for it if need be. You have a nice day, BJ
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I see a large chunk of a truth just fell off the back of the truck.

It's just a "test of wills", B Jenkins. It's "money on the incentive to die".

Who are these people who can't find anything better to do with other peoples' money?

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482585_554608571229961_1467743299_n.jpg

evidently Gandhi knew of you and your 'one view of reality' way back when ....

your ONE is just that one you want to see in your mirror of illusions ....

for others that knows not of or knows not still there is hope .... we understand,

but you who seems so decided to have known all and everything and only what you know is to be 'is' ...

you are part of that sea of poisonous consciousness that feeds the nightmare.

How is my English Mr Walker ? An unfortunate second Language enough for you ?

for you Mr Walker ... all you will ever know of .... is you that you want to know of ....

whatever else you think or do .... this is all you will ever be ...

how many of Gandhi's warning of the seven dangers to Human Virtues do you see in your mirror ?

'

Okay, so cross of lack of facility with english. Now if you dont have Aspergers we are left with perhaps a deliberate attempt to be esoteric in your utterances. The problem is; be too esoteric and no one has a clue what you are talking about.

While i admire most of ghandis work and philosophy. He was a man of his time and place and so, like us all, was limited in his world view. I agree with those 7 utterances but they are not the sum total of distilled wisdom in this world.

Lets take them one by one.

1.I have worked all my life and never gained money without working for it (and then i give a great deal of it away to people around the world and keep just what i need for food shelter etc.)

2. I am the opposite of a hedonist. While life gives me great pleasure, it comes from work, people and discipline. As a child I was taught to establish value lines and use ethics and philosophy to establish my moral and ethical standards. I NEVER act outside of those ethics and moralities, which form my conscience.

3 I am not sure what ghandi defines as character, but let us apply the old fashined definition of moral character. I AM a man of good moral and ethical character, by education effort discipline and practice.

4. I am not a man of business but i am a man of ethics. I transact LIFE with ethical and moral consideration and that includes any business dealings I have within it. If a shop keper gives me a dollar too much change. I return it.

5. Indeed, while I value science, I value humanity much more. My one concern with science is that we use it to solve problems whic actually require our humanity to solve Like all tools, science must be used FOR humanity.

6. I dont quite get ghandi's Indian view on religion. Life requires sacrifice of us to establish equality . I am a spiritual man but not a religious one. (i haven't been in a church for nearly 3 years) In a sense, a man can't sacrifice what he has, because he never really has it; he can merely share it around . But i believe in the concept of humans sacrificing many things for others; up to and including their life, if that is required of them in order to save others.

7 And of course politics is about service to others. Without principle, politics is dangerous for all concerned. I have served in many elected positions because I am a man of principle and ethics and this is recognised by those who elect us to such minor community roles.

I have never faced even minor criticism of my service in those roles, some of which I have been re-elected to for over 30 years

And finally I am sincerely sorry, but you have lapsed into gibberish in some of your statements. I don't understand either their meaning or their intent, and hence i cnnot make a meaningful reply to them.

I mean really.

"you are part of that sea of poisonous consciousness that feeds the nightmare."

What does that mean in plain english ?

Or this

"... all you will ever know of .... is you that you want to know of ....

whatever else you think or do .... this is all you will ever be ..."

As it stands it is actually meaningless, as well as untrue (if i can infer what you are attempting to say) if it refers to me

No one EVER gets to only know what they want to know. Reality constantly intrudes and imposes itself on everyone.

And NO human consists only of what they know. We use what we know to imagine, extrapolate, create etc often we use what we do not know to do the same things.

So that what we are is a product of knowledge and thought. Knowledge is the MINOR part of who and what we are. But knowledge is a useful tool, and the more one has, the more one can serve others.

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~snip

The problem is; be too esoteric and no one has a clue what you are talking about.

~snip

.

'you' or in your case ... " I "

734605_555612511129567_1779887569_n.jpg

a picture of words worth a thousand words ... Mr Walker ...

the deal of the century ...

.

~ have a nice day ~

.

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**“We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out.” Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979

**"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"

David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

**"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. ... Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice."

-- David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

**"We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai."

David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

**"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist... There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

**"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum."

**"We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

**"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

** "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969.

** “We don't have a solution, and you will continue living like dogs, and whoever wants will go, and will see how this procedure will work out. For now, it works out. Moshe Dayan speaking of the Palestinians, in Mehiro shel Ihud (Revivim, 1985) by Yossi Beilin, p. 42

**"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

** "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000.

** " (The Palestinians are) beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

** "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988.

** Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

** "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

** "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

** "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

** "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 (Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1).

** "We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not...You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world." (Chaim Weizmann, Published in "Judische Rundschau," No. 4, 1920).

**Partition: "after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine "

-- Ben Gurion, p.22 "The Birth of Israel, 1987" Simha Flapan.

**“It is not in our hands to prevent the murder of workers… and families… but it is in our hands to fix a high price for our blood, so high that the Arab community and the Arab military forces will not be willing to pay it.” Moshe Dayan as quoted in Warrior : The Autobiography of Ariel Sharon (1989)

**”In two cases I did not fulfill my role as defense minister, in that I did not stop things that I was sure should have been stopped.” Moshe Dayan on Israeli settlements on the Golan Heights and in Hebron, in a 1976 interview with Rami Tal, as quoted in Associated Press reports (11 May 1997)

** "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."

Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983

**"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We the Jewish people, control America and the Americans know it." Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, speaking to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

** "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters"

Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

** "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail" Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994

There is a lot more but I’ll stop here.

Ok, so now that we’ve established there is hatred on both sides and there is plenty of material on the internet, books etc. showing this, whether all these quotes (yours and mine) are true or not, we move forward to the fundamental questions which you’ve previously failed to answer Mr Walker:

· Although their right of return is guaranteed under international law, Israel has refused to allow those who fled and their descendents to return to what is rightfully their own land. Mr Walker...?

· Since WWII there is a thing called Territorial integrity. Border changes and annexing territory such as areas in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan Hts is illegal under international law. Mr Walker...?

· Under international law the CURRENT land blockade of Gaza is illegal. Mr Walker....?

· The International Court of Justice has ruled the building of settlements in the West Bank illegal under international law and a hindrance to the peace process. Mr Walker.....?

Thanks for the trouble of finding the references. i knew they would be out there. i wont go to the trouble of comparing the nature and quality reliabilty of some of those with the publicly stated utterances of arab leaders, but will address your other points.

AS LONG AS THE ARAB STATES AND PEOPLE POSE A THREAT TO ISRAELI INTEGRITY AND EXISTENCE, AND AS LONG AS iSRAEL DOES HAVE A LEGITIMATE/LEGAL RIGHT TO THAT EXISTENCE THEN IT HAS AN ARGUABLE CASE THAT IT CANNOT ACCEED TO INTERNATIONAL LAW WITHOUT PUTTING ITS EXISTENCE AT RISK.

And basically that is recognised by the united nations as a reality.

There can be no peace process between israel and arab states until those arab states and their people stop calling for and actively attempting to achieve the annihilation of Israel. Until then a defacto sate of war exists.

Which brings us back to a critical difference between my quotes and yours I think there is ONE reference to israel affecting countries and people outside its own territory The rest refer to the defence of the state of israel. Now compare that to the utterances by arab leaders. They are talking about the annihilation and destruction of Israel, not their own security or defence.

Even ben gurion's words were uttered while Isreal was under attack, and he was suggestig that when under attack the best defence is offence. (Something bomber command used very effectively in ww 2 )Hitler was attacking britain. Britain used bomber command to go on the offensive against german cities even while under threat itself.

In context that is precisely what ben gurion was saying . It is much harder to win a war against an aggressor if you are always on the defensive, and do not hit back strategically at the agressor's home .

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