Rule Britannia for global crimes

[keithisco]

Because thats not how they teach you in schools.

British empire was great for many things. But also was awful for many others thing.

Because of British far east see us (Europe) as barbarians imperialists.

What British done in todays South Africa can be compared with regime such as Pol Pot, Hitler and similar. Imho.

British? I thought it was the Voortrekkers that imposed Apartheid (if that is what you are referring to)

Either way, I am not responsible for what my forebears did within the Political context of the time, and neither do I feel personal guilt

Edited May 22, 2013 by keithisco

[FLOMBIE]

I think he is talking about the concentration camps.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

keithisco, for now, I think that British concentration camps in south Africa and forcing Chinese to buy Opium is more then enough to realize that question about compesation is valid one.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I think he is talking about the concentration camps.

Yes. And opium wars as second example. But if needed I can trace many more.

[Setton]

I would just add that Dutch gave British one of their greatest defeats. de Ruyter and Raid on the Medway.

Sorry, but I thought we were just discussing invasions? If we go into every battle this is going to be a very long thread.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to belittle the raid at all. It was a daring move and brilliantly executed.

Although as an Englishman, I think it's my duty to point out that the Dutch outnumbered us hugely and it was just the sort of thing we expect from sneaky foreigners

Because thats not how they teach you in schools.

British empire was great for many things. But also was awful for many others thing.

Because of British far east see us (Europe) as barbarians imperialists.

What British done in todays South Africa can be compared with regime such as Pol Pot, Hitler and similar. Imho.

And now we seem to be on concentration camps. You just specified that the conversation is about invasion and sequestering resources! Make up your mind then let me know and I can try to answer.

Should point out that most of my historical knowledge is self-taught actually. Never enjoyed it in school.

Oops, forgot about the Saxons...

How dare you!

Not that I'm reenacting Saxons this weekend or anything

[Arbenol]

Because thats not how they teach you in schools.

British empire was great for many things. But also was awful for many others thing.

Because of British far east see us (Europe) as barbarians imperialists.

What British done in todays South Africa can be compared with regime such as Pol Pot, Hitler and similar. Imho.

Britain, quite rightly, gets the bulk of the criticism for it's past imperialism. But it's a very blinkered take on history to not acknowledge that most of Europe treated the world as a massive lolly scramble. If you got there first - it was yours. (Except in New Zealand, because Maori scared the Dutch off - although they did get to name it). Spain's record in S. America isn't so great. The Dutch behaved appallingly in Indonesia. The Rwandan massacres of recent history were a direct result of Belgium's behaviour. I bet we could do this all day. Where do you draw the line?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Setton,

imho British need to pay compesation to some countries. Yes why wouldnt I been on concentration camps in Africa. British put Dutch/Boer woman and kids into camps.

So is life of Gypsy, Jew worth more then life of a Boer?

Plus ruined their country. It was one of biggest invasion by British.

And my second choice would be China if we can go that far into history for compesation. British were then drug cartel.During Opium wars.

Edited May 22, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Britain, quite rightly, gets the bulk of the criticism for it's past imperialism. But it's a very blinkered take on history to not acknowledge that most of Europe treated the world as a massive lolly scramble. If you got there first - it was yours. (Except in New Zealand, because Maori scared the Dutch off - although they did get to name it). Spain's record in S. America isn't so great. The Dutch behaved appallingly in Indonesia. The Rwandan massacres of recent history were a direct result of Belgium's behaviour. I bet we could do this all day. Where do you draw the line?

No doubt. I sign everything you wrote. But about Boer wars things are little different. And with China. Thats why I used them in the first place.

Line was that British attacked new state own by Dutchs and made concentration camps.

Line was there that British force Chinese to buy Opium.

I will not go into slavery and colonialsim at all.

Edited May 22, 2013 by the L

[keithisco]

keithisco, for now, I think that British concentration camps in south Africa and forcing Chinese to buy Opium is more then enough to realize that question about compesation is valid one.

I understand now. You are referring to the Boer War (somewhat before my time) when wholly inadequate camps were set up to house the women and children from cleared farms. Disease is said to have claimed 25,000 lives and British Public Opinion was outraged such that all camps were closed within a year and survivors returned to their Husbands / Fathers.

These Concentration Camps have no corollary with those of Nazi Germany during the 2nd World War.

Neither were the Chinese "forced" to buy Opium

Edited May 22, 2013 by keithisco

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I understand now. You are referring to the Boer War (somewhat before my time) when wholly inadequate camps were set up to house the women and children from cleared farms. Disease is said to have claimed 25,000 lives and British Public Opinion was outraged such that all camps were closed within a year and survivors returned to their Husbands / Fathers.

And I called it propaganda.

Because they couldnt defeat Boers they made conc.camps. Then only when Boers surrender conc.camps were closed.

Edited May 22, 2013 by the L

[FLOMBIE]

I understand now. You are referring to the Boer War (somewhat before my time) when wholly inadequate camps were set up to house the women and children from cleared farms. Disease is said to have claimed 25,000 lives and British Public Opinion was outraged such that all camps were closed within a year and survivors returned to their Husbands / Fathers.

These Concentration Camps have no corollary with those of Nazi Germany during the 2nd World War.

Neither were the Chinese "forced" to buy Opium

That's why those should better be called "death camps". The word concentration camp is a British invention form the second Boer war.

You still had a few up and running later one, like this one:

Jan Kempdorp

Sadly, the English wikipeda page does not have much info at all.

[keithisco]

And I called it propaganda.

Because they couldnt defeat Boers they made conc.camps. Then only when Boers surrender conc.camps were closed.

NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,

[Big Bad Voodoo]

These Concentration Camps have no corollary with those of Nazi Germany during the 2nd World War.

Neither were the Chinese "forced" to buy Opium

I promise I will respond on this. Now I must go to bed.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,

I wonder would you survive in jail on low food and none food where hygene is zero.

One could conclude that British spare bullets.

Allow me that I response you later.

Edited May 22, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Just look this "British hotel"

[keithisco]

That's why those should better be called "death camps". The word concentration camp is a British invention form the second Boer war.

You still had a few up and running later one, like this one:

Jan Kempdorp

Sadly, the English wikipeda page does not have much info at all.

I think it would be more accurate to call it an Internment Camp as the prisoners were released after the war finished.

[Setton]

Setton,

imho British need to pay compesation to some countries. Yes why wouldnt I been on concentration camps in Africa. British put Dutch/Boer woman and kids into camps.

So is life of Gypsy, Jew worth more then life of a Boer?

No but, as has been pointed out, they weren't concentration camps by the modern definition.

Plus ruined their country. It was one of biggest invasion by British.

So back to my earlier point, are all those other countries to pay compensation too? The Roman invasion ended an entire culture and way of life here. Should we bill modern Rome for it?

And my second choice would be China if we can go that far into history for compesation. British were then drug cartel.During Opium wars.

And I assume China will be paying out to all the countries they've invaded?

Alternatively, we all just drop it and, if it makes you feel better, consider the millions we give in international aid our 'compensation'.

Now, I'm off to bed too so feel free to answer tomorrow.

Just one more thing, that's a very selective choice of picture. The girl in the picture contracted typhoid (not uncommon for anyone at that point, the British included). Once the British realised she was not recovering, she was transferred to a hospital. Blame the nurses at the hospital for her death if you must but don't try to pin a common disease on a nation.

FYI here's another picture from a concentration camp. Yep, they look just terrible:

Edited May 22, 2013 by Setton

[FLOMBIE]

NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,

Do you have a link on that? I can only find sources that point out a different outcome: Emily Hobhouse visited one of the camps, and through her intervention the conditions inside the camps were improved, but the inmates were not released until the war was over.

I think it would be more accurate to call it an Internment Camp as the prisoners were released after the war finished.

After all they were called concentration camps.

[shrooma]

positively no axe to grind there then.

p.s. read the comments below the 'piece' it's a hoot. Presumably the comments section is only open to Iran party members.

.

strangely enough INOT, I took your advice, then, after reading the comments, decided to post one.

I said how odd that all the comments seemed to have been written in the same style, as if they'd all been written by the same 2-3 guys.

and d'you know what?

it stayed on there for a full eight minutes before it was removed.....

bet my email inbox is flooded with s**te from iranian nutters tomorrow.

[Bavarian Raven]

People need to learn that the past is the past. It's dead and done. Get over it and move on and live your lives.

[Almagest]

People need to learn that the past is the past. It's dead and done. Get over it and move on and live your lives.

Agreed. People need to recognize the evil their own country has committed (no country is innocent in that respect), and move on. Unless there are still direct victims of a nations policies, domestic or imperial, there really isn't any purpose to reparations of any kind.

I would describe the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, along with the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo as war crimes, but all those who are responsible are long dead. The same goes for the perpetrator of imperial crimes. And for the record, the British Empire was pretty bad, but so was the French, Belgian, Spanish, Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, etc.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Agreed. People need to recognize the evil their own country has committed (no country is innocent in that respect), and move on. Unless there are still direct victims of a nations policies, domestic or imperial, there really isn't any purpose to reparations of any kind.

I would describe the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, along with the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo as war crimes, but all those who are responsible are long dead. The same goes for the perpetrator of imperial crimes. And for the record, the British Empire was pretty bad, but so was the French, Belgian, Spanish, Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, etc.

IMO Truman did crime against humanity.

How many times has America attacked others?

Causes were different.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

NO... your History is wrong. the Boer War continued for another 18months after the closure of the Camps. The defeat of the Boers by the British was never in doubt despite some notable setbacks in its early days. To prevent the Guerillas from receiving sustenance and aid their Farms were burnt and the families put into the camps to deny the fighters this support. No - one was summarily killed in these camps,

I like this post. We will soon see who whos history were wrong. About 2 hours when I get more time.

I think it would be more accurate to call it an Internment Camp as the prisoners were released after the war finished.

You know there are survivors from Holocaust too.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

And I assume China will be paying out to all the countries they've invaded?

Which country China invaded?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Why British hold children behind wires?

Because south Africa in sunny doesnt mean that sunshine was shining to those captives.

You know what your picture proove? That they took freedom from children and woman. Isnt that crime?

How would you feel if your brothers, sons, mothers, syster were unselectivly without process sent to jail?