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Rule Britannia for global crimes


Big Bad Voodoo

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Ah, more nuttery.

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Why is it everybody picks on the Brits ? the Romans did it the Greeks did it everybody has had their turn at the moment it's the Yanks so get real

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Why is it everybody picks on the Brits ? the Romans did it the Greeks did it everybody has had their turn at the moment it's the Yanks so get real

i suspect that's probably why, thanks to Tony Blair and (to an extent) Mrs. T Britain is seen as a loyal lackey of America, and so it receives some of the reflected hate.

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I would just add that Dutch gave British one of their greatest defeats. de Ruyter and Raid on the Medway.

It wasn't an ivasion, though, was it? Invasion has occupation and/or the overthrow of the invaded country's government in mind, and the Dutch had no intention of that. Not if they could do it without bloodshed in 1688.

Surely, incidentaly, that's the last succesfu invasion of Britain, albeit a peaceful one.

You got me to doing some InterWeb searching and I came across this from the Daily Telegraph showing the 21 (out of 22) countries NOT invaded at some point by Britain (Invasion is a bit strong because it includes Privateering raids sanctioned by the Crown or Govt.

Link to complete article (Courtesy Daily Telegraph): http://www.telegraph...Luxembourg.html

BRITAIN_2388153b.jpg

Again, that's not invasion with a view to occupation or overthrow of Govt; that seems to be everywhere in which England/Britain/the UK has ever had any military involvement at all. Russia (referring to the various skirmishes during the napoleonic wars, or the intervention after the Revolution?) was hardly seriously invaded, was it. Japan? Thankfully, it wasn't. And if it had been it would have been in retaliation for their invading numerous other countries.

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Setton,

imho British need to pay compesation to some countries. Yes why wouldnt I been on concentration camps in Africa. British put Dutch/Boer woman and kids into camps.

So is life of Gypsy, Jew worth more then life of a Boer?

Plus ruined their country. It was one of biggest invasion by British.

And my second choice would be China if we can go that far into history for compesation. British were then drug cartel.During Opium wars.

You know that the Boer war was a conflict between two groups of colonists, and the Boers were hardly invaded by the British? And that the Boers and their successors the Afrikaners hardly leave themselves open to much sympathy for their treatment of the native population, did they? Also that concentration camps is not synonymous with Auschwitz-style death camps, and that the US (for example) also did much the same thing with American citziens of Japanese origin, even those born in the US, after Pearl Harbor?

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Does it make it any better that others did similar things? You know what, I would love to read something among the lines like: "Right, we messed it up big time there, and should do more to remember the dead, and acknowledge the atrocities we have done" for once. But all that comes out is this whining that others weren't any better or even worse. I wonder how the reaction would be, if us Germans act like that?

Yes, these camps were not death camps. They were still cruel and inhuman places of humiliation and even death.

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Does it make it any better that others did similar things? You know what, I would love to read something among the lines like: "Right, we messed it up big time there, and should do more to remember the dead, and acknowledge the atrocities we have done" for once. But all that comes out is this whining that others weren't any better or even worse. I wonder how the reaction would be, if us Germans act like that?

Yes, these camps were not death camps. They were still cruel and inhuman places of humiliation and even death.

Thats all world need to hear. Yet British are in denial phase.

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I didnt want to go far with this but denial from Umers (british probably) led me to gave them history lecture.

which country are you from L, if you don't mind me asking?

Croatia.

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Ah, more nuttery.

Similar reaction have had Nazists when someone complained that they need to stop killing Jews.

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Similar reaction have had Nazists when someone complained that they need to stop killing Jews.

I hear that Dr. Mike Godwin now has a PayPal account so that royalties can go straight into his account without needing to worry about all that tedious "the cheque's in the post" business. He'll get a nice surprise when he checks it this morning.

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I didnt want to go far with this but denial from Umers (british probably) led me to gave them history lecture.

Croatia.

Well, gosh, thank you for your lecture to the ignorant masses. Not at all condescending in any way at all. What denial are you talking about? That bad Things were done in the past? So what do you want? An abject apology from david Cameroon? do you want him to kneel in tears in front of some memorial or other? To the Boers? Who, while they may have been a minority, were hardly very oppressed, were they? In fact, they were pretty effective oppressors themselves, weren't they. Certainly to the native population of the country they occupied.

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Thats all world need to hear. Yet British are in denial phase.

Now, now Mr L

You started this thread with a source that had clear anti-British bias. It's totally appropriate for that to be pointed out.

You're also ignoring the posts that acknowledge these atrocities. All that's required is a little perspective.

But you're right. Acknowledgement and apologies go a long way. Recent history shows that many nations have done this.

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Now, now Mr L

You started this thread with a source that had clear anti-British bias. It's totally appropriate for that to be pointed out.

You're also ignoring the posts that acknowledge these atrocities. All that's required is a little perspective.

But you're right. Acknowledgement and apologies go a long way. Recent history shows that many nations have done this.

I don't get this kind of thinking. Why relativise murder? All acknowledgement goes like: "Yes, we did it, but the Nazis were worse!" I cannot understand how that can make one feel better. Murder stays murder.

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Which country China invaded?

Tibet, Vietnam, Korea, Burma. And those are just the recent ones.

Why British hold children behind wires?

Because south Africa in sunny doesnt mean that sunshine was shining to those captives.

You know what your picture proove? That they took freedom from children and woman. Isnt that crime?

How would you feel if your brothers, sons, mothers, syster were unselectivly without process sent to jail?

If we were at war, I'd be unsurprised. What do you think's worse: burning down the farms and taking families to camps or burning down the farms with families still in them?

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Well, gosh, thank you for your lecture to the ignorant masses.

I still didnt start lecture. But I will. Yes aplogize would be fine then followed by compesation.

If we were at war, I'd be unsurprised. What do you think's worse: burning down the farms and taking families to camps or burning down the farms with families still in them?

And you said it like British have right to burn their homes. Thats tells a lot.

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I don't get this kind of thinking. Why relativise murder? All acknowledgement goes like: "Yes, we did it, but the Nazis were worse!" I cannot understand how that can make one feel better. Murder stays murder.

I didn't mention the war. (Well, once maybe. But I think I got away with it).

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I didn't mention the war. (Well, once maybe. But I think I got away with it).

Mention it, no worries. And I love Fawlty Towers.

Still, my point stands. Just read the thread, or should I quote what I mean?

Edit: It's the same kind of reasoning that the guy who beheaded the soldier in London yesterday brought forward: "I am sorry your women had to witness this, but our women had to witness it as well." Doesn't make the crime any better.

Edited by FLOMBIE
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Now, now Mr L

You started this thread with a source that had clear anti-British bias. It's totally appropriate for that to be pointed out.

You're also ignoring the posts that acknowledge these atrocities. All that's required is a little perspective.

But you're right. Acknowledgement and apologies go a long way. Recent history shows that many nations have done this.

Im on anti British bias? Cmon get real. I love British culture. When I have to choose which language I want to learn between Russian, French, German and English I choose English.

As Flombie said because other do it that doesnt makes you saint. German paid their debt. So should everyone else imo.

This is a thread about British, remember? If we talk about Japanese I would point at their crimes as well.

I understand that you feel uncomfortable to talk about your country in negative tone. But your ancestors (not particullary yours) should think about it when they done what they have done.

Stop making this personal.

Lets talk about objective facts.

If you potratied me as some anti Britsih person that will not erase your evil deeds done by your country.

So lets stay polite, civil, friendly and easygoing. I admited that others countries done horrable things.

But if Pol Pot killed millions that doesnt mean I can do it.

I will stressed out that I dont have nothing against British people whatsoever. I like their culture, language, tradition, landscape and their history.

But in this thread we start to discuss did British need to pay compesation. Some members asked on what basis.

Now we are in middle of discussion where I will try to picture that basis.

So Im defenetly not anti British. You missed the target.

I dont hate any nation. Even Serbs which attacked my country. But do I hate people who done crime? Their goverment in particular period? Ofcourse.

When someone do crimes against humanity by it definition its crime against me aswell because Im human. Not anti British.

Edited by the L
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And you said it like British have right to burn their homes. Thats tells a lot.

Have you ever studied military history? That's how it was always done. Doesn't make it right but it works and shortens wars. I would also point out that the British offered peace terms several times and the Boers refused. They can't be held blameless in the conflict either.

Even if we go with your idea and pay compensation (on top of all the money we've already paid), it would go to the descendants of Dutch settlers. As their ancestors attempted to invade Egypt, it would go to them. Then for their role in the Crusades, it would go back to European countries.

As I said, if you try and claim compensation for long past events, it just goes in circles unless you draw some arbitrary cut-off date.

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Not at all condescending in any way at all. What denial are you talking about? That bad Things were done in the past? So what do you want? An abject apology from david Cameroon? do you want him to kneel in tears in front of some memorial or other? To the Boers? Who, while they may have been a minority, were hardly very oppressed, were they? In fact, they were pretty effective oppressors themselves, weren't they. Certainly to the native population of the country they occupied.

Do you think that British worth more then others? If others can say Im sorry and kneel in front of memorial so can British. Or you think that anglo saxons are on top of pyramid?

Edited by the L
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Have you ever studied military history? That's how it was always done. Doesn't make it right but it works and shortens wars. I would also point out that the British offered peace terms several times and the Boers refused. They can't be held blameless in the conflict either.

Even if we go with your idea and pay compensation (on top of all the money we've already paid), it would go to the descendants of Dutch settlers. As their ancestors attempted to invade Egypt, it would go to them. Then for their role in the Crusades, it would go back to European countries.

As I said, if you try and claim compensation for long past events, it just goes in circles unless you draw some arbitrary cut-off date.

As matter of fact I study military history and history in general. Now Im studying for my second PhD. It wasnt regular things in war.

I dont see where you going with this invading Egypt. Or Crusaders.

Id say 1800 onwards should be paid.

Btw same with USA and natives.

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I'm not uncomfortable talking about Britain's less than glorious history. I've spoken about it on many occasions on these boards. It's clearly not personal and I believe we've remained civil - so I'm not sure what you mean there, L.

And I said your source was bias, not you.

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As matter of fact I study military history and history in general. Now Im studying for my second PhD. It wasnt regular things in war.

I dont see where you going with this invading Egypt. Or Crusaders.

Id say 1800 onwards should be paid.

Btw same with USA and natives.

I suspect you're a modern historian then. Burning of settlements has been a part of war throughout history, whether to draw out armies or to deny rebels supplies.

So why the arbitrary date of 1800? What makes burning towns acceptable in 1799 but not in 1801? Setting a date like that shows you're just trying to catch those who were powerful nations at that time and not interested in fair restitution at all.

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