Rule Britannia for global crimes

[Lilly]

Has it occurred to you that this period of South African history was characterised by one horrible lot of imperialists facing off against another horrible lot of imperialists. I don't think any of them get to occupy the moral high ground.

And has it dawned on everyone that this is history and all sorts of countries did all sorts of bad things to all sorts of people in the past

[Lilly]

Good Grief...the British Empire of the 19th and early 20th century NO Longer Exists. No more than the Germany of Hitler or China under the Emperors or the Italy of ancient Rome.

'Get Over It' and come into the 21st century.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Good Grief...the British Empire of the 19th and early 20th century NO Longer Exists. No more than the Germany of Hitler or China under the Emperors or the Italy of ancient Rome.

'Get Over It' and come into the 21st century.

True, but Germans paid compesation for their concentration camps. British didnt.

And payed whole Germans. Even they would complete two new states and even among them were people who were against Nazi regime. Like August Landmesser.

[Lilly]

The war crimes payment stuff took place right after WWII...about 70 years ago.

So one more time...the past is going to stay in the past. Learn to deal with this reality. If you can not discuss historical events without becoming upset and argumentative and calling for restitution in modern times... then this thread will have to be closed.

[Arbenol]

As a matter of fact it was their because Transval was state as New Zeland today.

As I said. Where's the moral high ground. Neither the British or the Boer were indigenous to South Africa. They were both intent on plundering it's resources. As happened everywhere that Europeans colonised.

You're comparison with New Zealand is a decent one. Because Europeans did exactly the same to Maori here.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

As I said. Where's the moral high ground. Neither the British or the Boer were indigenous to South Africa. They were both intent on plundering it's resources. As happened everywhere that Europeans colonised.

You're comparison with New Zealand is a decent one. Because Europeans did exactly the same to Maori here.

I know because I smell Maori blood in you.

Where is moral high ground? Thats a discussion for itself.

Those Boers were also born in Africa and were workers who built their state. Then you can ask did Maori have right of New Zeland?

One native american said: Our land is not legacy of our ancestors but loan from our descendents.

Transval was state of law and rights. They have had constitution. Boer = Afrikaans.

Edited May 28, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The war crimes payment stuff took place right after WWII...about 70 years ago.

So one more time...the past is going to stay in the past. Learn to deal with this reality. If you can not discuss historical events without becoming upset and argumentative and calling for restitution in modern times... then this thread will have to be closed.

So compesation only works after WW2?

Then why China have to pay compesation to British after Opium wars?

Now when isnt century of British is logical to ask those questions.

Im sure when century of USA will end same questions will be raised.

Edited May 28, 2013 by the L

[Arbenol]

I know because I smell Maori blood in you.

Where is moral high ground? Thats a discussion for itself.

Those Boers were also born in Africa and were workers who built their state. Then you can ask did Maori have right of New Zeland?

One native american said: Our land is not legacy of our ancestors but loan from our descendents.

Transval was state of law and rights. They have had constitution. Boer = Afrikaans.

The majority of New Zealand is of European ancestry (and that includes most Maori) and, notwithstanding some loud dissent, has little problem with the millions of dollars of tax payers money that is spent settling Maori land claims. This is an explicit acceptance that what happened was wrong. So yes. Maori did have the rights. They were here first. The indigenous population of South Africa was there first. The resources were theirs. The gold was theirs - not the Boers'

I know you were probably a little tongue-in-cheek there, but no. I'm not Maori. I'm a British immigrant.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

The majority of New Zealand is of European ancestry (and that includes most Maori) and, notwithstanding some loud dissent, has little problem with the millions of dollars of tax payers money that is spent settling Maori land claims. This is an explicit acceptance that what happened was wrong. So yes. Maori did have the rights. They were here first. The indigenous population of South Africa was there first. The resources were theirs. The gold was theirs - not the Boers'

I know you were probably a little tongue-in-cheek there, but no. I'm not Maori. I'm a British immigrant.

But if Japan now attack New Zeland and create conc. camps you would justify their attack and say thief took it from thief, so what a hell?

[Lilly]

But if Japan now attack New Zeland and create conc. camps you would justify their attack and say thief took it from thief, so what a hell?

Wow, you're really missing the point here.

If Japan attacked New Zealand right now in 2013 (and I might add that this is highly unlikely) it would most likely lead to war. When the war ended, right then and there, straight away any compensation would take place. It's very, very rare, very highly unlikely to see any sort of compensation decades or centuries later. This is the way it is, that's why I say you need to 'get over it'.

Compensation for historical wrong doings in the past aren't going to be paid for or somehow fixed in the present. Please accept this and move on.

[Arbenol]

But if Japan now attack New Zeland and create conc. camps you would justify their attack and say thief took it from thief, so what a hell?

Historical context is what is important here. There's a danger of extrapolating an argument to the absurd, otherwise.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Wow, you're really missing the point here.

If Japan attacked New Zealand right now in 2013 (and I might add that this is highly unlikely) it would most likely lead to war. When the war ended, right then and there, straight away any compensation would take place. It's very, very rare, very highly unlikely to see any sort of compensation decades or centuries later. This is the way it is, that's why I say you need to 'get over it'.

Compensation for historical wrong doings in the past aren't going to be paid for or somehow fixed in the present. Please accept this and move on.

I dont agree. I used Japan as simple example. But there are countries in world which WILL take USA place. Now if they attack New Zeland there would be no contest.

And war will end by one ruling winners. Therefore no compesation will follow. Then it would be interesting to see your reaction.

But I accept your view and Im moving.

Edited May 28, 2013 by the L

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Historical context is what is important here. There's a danger of extrapolating an argument to the absurd, otherwise.

Thank you on your answer. I got my answer.

Edited May 28, 2013 by the L

[Lilly]

I dont agree. I used Japan as simple example. But there are countries in world which WILL take USA place. Now if they attack New Zeland there would be no contest.

And war will end by one ruling winners. Therefore no compesation will follow. Then it would be interesting to see your reaction.

But I accept your view and Im moving.

War is always won by the strongest. History is always written by the victor. Everything doesn't work out nice and fair and equitable. This is exactly what I'm talking about. We simply can't go back into history and make everything correct. We can't even manage to make everything that's happening right now nice and fair and equitable.

Historical context is very important. The world we live in today is not the world of the past. Leave 'the past' in the past. Like I said before, we need to let the sins of history go. All we can hope for is that humanity learns a little bit from each successive generation. Hopefully, over time, we will become closer to having a 'nice and fair and equitable' social order. Humanity is a work in progress.

[ali smack]

Maybe. I take it China, France, Spain, Portugal, Iran, Egypt, Syria, Russia, Greece, Italy, Venice, America, Norway, Germany, Hungary, Turkey, Denmark, the Netherlands, Mongolia, Sweden, Iraq, Japan, Rome, Uzbekistan and most of the middle east will be paying as well then?

All of these countries have founded empires that have caused a lot of suffering. Can't help feeling either Australia ends up with all the money or they all cancel out. It's history, it's gone. Move on rather than apportioning blame to people long dead.

Just going to draw up a compensation claim for Denmark to pay. You know, because they were obviously responsible for the vikings.

EXACTLY. I agree. Just about every country has done evil, we can apoligise to these people. But the compo idea is a load of rubbish.It's in the past. Nothing to do with us now