dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #76 Share Posted May 23, 2013 So because we have withdrawn...that makes all the civilian deaths there okay then, does it? I guess those people should just forget the whole thing. no we should applaud the savage murder of a serving soldier on a london street and then blame ourselves and let the killers go free... jesus christ..have you got no sense of reality? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #77 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Nobody represents the West or Islam, at least not in it's entirety. They are not individual entities that are defined in one easy sweep, both have a vast make-up of opinions, ideals, and intentions. The EDL and fundamentalist jihadists are a part of both sections....to keep trying to separate things in order to give some nice neat appearance of what 'us and them' is about does absolutely nothing to try and bridge the gap in thinking between the ordinary man in the street and those with these views. Sure, some people are just mentally ill and will be drawn to any negative cause they find, but others get drawn in through other ways, which is why your method of trying to define certain people as 'trashy' or lower then you in intelligence also adds nothing to bridging the gap. For someone who likes to imply they look at the bigger picture, you do a good impression of someone who likes to only focus on certain parts that catches his eye. what have the EDL ever done that is on a par with islamic fundamentalism?? march thru some areas with a high proportion of muslims living there? sing a few songs about allah? get some perspective here ffs.... i'm not really an EDL supporter as they have too many idiots following them but if you look at what they have actually done they have caused no harm...but don't me distract you from the mainstream medias interpretation of them as a 'far-right' movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrooma Posted May 23, 2013 #78 Share Posted May 23, 2013 The only side being demonized are the fascist EDL and the fundamental jihadists. Those people do not represent the West or Islam. . the EDL aren't fascists LBA, they're nationalists, there's a difference. they'd be a pretty crap nazi party when they have black representatives and voters. gods knows, i'm not trying to defend them, but you seem to have some pretty strange ideas about them. and as far as the fascist/fundamentalist argument goes, you aren't critiquing the jihadists whatsoever, just the EDL. you aren't supporting them, but neither are you offering much in the way of condemnation either, and in all fairness you should be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSS Posted May 23, 2013 #79 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) what have the EDL ever done that is on a par with islamic fundamentalism?? march thru some areas with a high proportion of muslims living there? sing a few songs about allah? get some perspective here ffs.... i'm not really an EDL supporter as they have too many idiots following them but if you look at what they have actually done they have caused no harm...but don't me distract you from the mainstream medias interpretation of them as a 'far-right' movement. Maybe you missed the point of what I said. For what it's worth though I have seen the EDL, in Luton. They didn't cause any harm from what I see, but by the same token they didn't have anything good to say either.....they just reminded me of some of the old faces you'd see on Green Street most Saturday afternoons looking for a row, all a bit childish really (imo). But they have an opinion and I guess they are entitled to it, it's just not my opinion. Edited May 23, 2013 by Sky Scanner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrooma Posted May 23, 2013 #80 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I know there are some very stupid people on this forum . and growing by the minute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #81 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Maybe you missed the point of what I said. For what it's worth though I have seen the EDL, in Luton. They didn't cause any harm from I see, but by the same token they didn't have anything good to say either.....they just reminded me of some of the old faces you'd see on Green Street most Saturday afternoons looking for a row, all a bit childish really (imo). But they have an opinion and I guess they are entitled to it, it's just not my opinion. no no i got your point...i just don't like the constant equating of the EDL with the Islamists...they are not two sides of the same coin... i agree with your point regarding the green st lookalikes...hence my earlier comments...but who else is making any sort of noise about this?? we cannot trust our govt to represent the common view...labour sold us all down the river with their mass immigration policies predicated on moulding the electorate in their favour... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
through the fire Posted May 23, 2013 #82 Share Posted May 23, 2013 . and growing by the minute. I must have touched a nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted May 23, 2013 #83 Share Posted May 23, 2013 So because we have withdrawn...that makes all the civilian deaths there okay then, does it? I guess those people should just forget the whole thing. At what point do you suggest it should end then? With the death of western civilisation, yourself included? All you've done is affirm why in so many places we can't withdraw, maybe for many, many years until we have a generation that is sick of death and ready to get on with the business of living their lives and creating a peaceful future for their children instead of teaching them to exact vengeance after vengeance until the whole world is mad and sick with it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #84 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I would love for you to point out where I said we should applaud this act? I can wait. There's little justifiable excuse for murdering anyone but there is such thing as being able to see both sides of the story. The West has destroyed many lives in the Middle East and continues to do so without a care and nobody cares (nor is it reported often) of all the innocents who die horrific deaths at the hands of our armed forces. Jesus Christ...have YOU got no sense of reality? *snip* local muslims in those countries are the ones killing each other....in far greater numbers than anywhere else. *snip*...you have an empty baseless argument. show me - link up some examples of this 'The West has destroyed many lives in the Middle East and continues to do so without a care and nobody cares (nor is it reported often) of all the innocents who die horrific deaths at the hands of our armed forces.' Edited May 23, 2013 by libstaK personal attack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.AKUMA. Posted May 23, 2013 #85 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Hmm I find it rather disturbing how quickly the media jumped on the "terrorist" band wagon, if I remember correctley someone ran into a cinema shooting and murdering over 26 people, he was regarded insane? Also a man ordered the invasion of iraq once, and had the nerve to tell the public "god told me to do it" he was labled as sane? A man mudered a muslim man as he walked back from mosque, he was called a racist? Yet 2 men murder a soldier in cold blood amd yap some islamic words and all of a sudden Terrorist!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #86 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) How about we stop invading countries (illegally) to plunder them of their natural resources, rendering them even poorer, and maybe we can make a start on trying...shock horror...diplomacy. Oh wait, "the men in caves" won't let that happen... you haven't got a clue have you. which countries have we plundered recently*snip*? which countries have we made poorer.... do you understand who the taliban are and what they were doin to their own people? how about the baath party in iraq?? lol....utterly clueless and brainwashed into believing total bs....and you probably think you're a free-thinker...lol... Hmm I find it rather disturbing how quickly the media jumped on the "terrorist" band wagon, if I remember correctley someone ran into a cinema shooting and murdering over 26 people, he was regarded insane? Also a man ordered the invasion of iraq once, and had the nerve to tell the public "god told me to do it" he was labled as sane? A man mudered a muslim man as he walked back from mosque, he was called a racist? Yet 2 men murder a soldier in cold blood amd yap some islamic words and all of a sudden Terrorist!!! more nonsense. the men had links to terrorist groups in the uk. Edited May 23, 2013 by libstaK personal attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted May 23, 2013 #87 Share Posted May 23, 2013 How about we stop invading countries (illegally) to plunder them of their natural resources, rendering them even poorer, and maybe we can make a start on trying...shock horror...diplomacy. Oh wait, "the men in caves" won't let that happen... These countries do invasions of their own, not to mention coups and totalitarian govts that oppress their own people. Diplomacy is very active. These acts are not done by those who have taken account of diplomatic progress, their agenda is vengeance via death - it doesn't matter who, complete innocents will do as long as the world gets to know how deep their hatred is toward those who do not believe as they do and they want us to fear them, they would love that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #88 Share Posted May 23, 2013 100,000 dead civilians is a "baseless argument"? 100,000 dead civilians isn't lives destroyed? By the way, these causalities come via WESTERN MILITARY. Go back to the media spoon feeding you BS, you seem to like the taste. lol!! pure irony!! show me the 100,000 deaths....just give me...i dunno - 10 will do....that have been deliberately caused by western intervention... c'mon...just 10...shouldnt be that hard should it. like i said you think you're free but you're swallowin lies whole....100,000 deaths...***** please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted May 23, 2013 #89 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Common guys, you can show your disagreement with others without resorting to personal attacks. Keep it civil please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted May 23, 2013 #90 Share Posted May 23, 2013 And in the world of film and TV, then I dare say they would have been a hero that would have taken on this pair of scum. But in real life, most ordinary people would hang back, and wait for another to lead the attack. Mark you, had this happened up here in Scotland, the locals may have indeed laid into this couple of ********. Remember that attempt to blow up Glasgow Airport? However, my annoyance with this event is that we will have to go through the system and put the pair through the courts. Frankly, why bother? Literally caught redhanded, boasting about their "bravery", in front of multiple witnesses. To send out a message to any other prat that may think this sort of attack is a brilliant idea, here's what to do. Don't bother with a trial. Put the pair against a wall, shoot them. They want to live like those in lands they claim to defend, well, you take the punishment that would be given to you in such lands. I only differ in the manner of summary execution. They should have been beheaded with the weapon they used to kill the soldier. We in the west, for the most part, do not understand the significance of this type of killing. It is the ULTIMATE sign of disrespect for an adversary in their culture. Akin to slaughtering any other animal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrooma Posted May 23, 2013 #91 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I must have touched a nerve. . I obviously didn't convey my sarcasm well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted May 23, 2013 #92 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Now you're trying to justify it with "well, they invade people as well". You justified the death of the soldier with us invading other countries - what is the difference? As I said originally exactly where do you propose this ends? Every action has a reaction, you have to go pretty far back into human history to find a pair of clean hands in anything to do with current hatreds and vengeances in the world. Everyone will always do what they do because they believe they have a valid reason. The more people who step away from vengeance and bloodshed the better our chances of a fresh start for everyone, I don't see that happening any time soon. However, in cases like these we are not dealing with people who will ever be happy until we are all dead - these crazy radicals do not represent Islam, The middle east or Afghanistan et al, they represent hatred and madness. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #93 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Now you're trying to justify it with "well, they invade people as well". http://en.wikipedia...._involving_Iraq http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States Interesting... http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ That should keep you busy for a while. explain in your own words....tell me about a specific incident where 10 or more lives were lost as a result of deliberate western actions.... c'mon man....back up your arguments...don't just post links to biased websites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciriuslea Posted May 23, 2013 #94 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) One of the attackers has been named as Michael Adeboloja, a Muslim convert who was raised Christian born in Nigeria, both suspects were known to MI5 Edited May 23, 2013 by ciriuslea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #95 Share Posted May 23, 2013 If you had the sense to navigate the website, you'd find the 100,000+ names. Enjoy. you're a straw man...there is no foundation to any of your arguments....a gentle push and you struggle to back up any of your points.... you simply swallow the mainstream media's nonsense without actually looking behind those headlines... without even looking at the bodycount website i know that they counted all sectarian deaths as being caused by western intervention...so we get the blame for iraqi muslims killing other iraqi muslims...lol so please....in your own words if you can...point me to a specific incident...otherwise stop your outpouring of baseless nonsense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A rather obscure Bassoon Posted May 23, 2013 #96 Share Posted May 23, 2013 The law abiding Muslim communities must stand up now and report the radicals in their midst.This could quite easily simmer over into something very ugly,already this morning I have seen people on my facebook from the UK calling for Mosques to be burnt down.I am very tolerant towards Muslims, but I will never defend terrorist acts such as this.The Police should have shot to kill yesterday and rid the world of these vermin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted May 23, 2013 #97 Share Posted May 23, 2013 no no i got your point...i just don't like the constant equating of the EDL with the Islamists...they are not two sides of the same coin... i agree with your point regarding the green st lookalikes...hence my earlier comments...but who else is making any sort of noise about this?? we cannot trust our govt to represent the common view...labour sold us all down the river with their mass immigration policies predicated on moulding the electorate in their favour... THIS!! +1 !I have no idea what "green st lookalikes" means but what I see in the EDL is a grassroots movement of unpolished, probably "lower class" men who are sick to death of having the nation they grew up in dragged down into a foreign sewer. Watching opportunities for a better life being given to those who spit on the flag and openly declare they will destroy you. Is it just me or isn't the anger they feel justified? Shouldn't there be a huge grassroots movement of the common man saying ENOUGH! ?? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekker87 Posted May 23, 2013 #98 Share Posted May 23, 2013 So you asked me for evidence and didn't even look at it when I presented it? Denial is quite the thing. God bless the heroic British who have never killed a single innocent person. you presented no evidence!! 100,000 is quite a lot...as you're so knowledgable you should be able to reel them off the top of your head. i could show you british military atrocities off the top of mine....kenya...rhodesia....cyprus....dresden....i'm not scared to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
through the fire Posted May 23, 2013 #99 Share Posted May 23, 2013 explain in your own words....tell me about a specific incident where 10 or more lives were lost as a result of deliberate western actions.... c'mon man....back up your arguments...don't just post links to biased websites... Wow you're even more deranged than I thought lol. The us gov admits killing dozens of innocents in drone strikes. I don't think there is any point in linking you to anything. I'm sure you'll just claim it's biased. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrooma Posted May 23, 2013 #100 Share Posted May 23, 2013 The West has destroyed many lives in the Middle East and continues to do so without a care . count the number of civilian deaths cause by the allied forces in iraq, and then count the number of allied soldiers AND civilians killed by the iraqis. 100 people PER DAY are killed by car bombs in iraq, and as far as i'm aware, carbombs aren't official allied strategy. . and nobody cares . least of all the iraqis who murder hundreds of their own people week in, week out. . (nor is it reported often) . i'd suggest you watch al jazeera or RTnews. . all the innocents who die horrific deaths at the hands of our armed forces. . pales into insignificance compared to the deaths caused by insurgency. . Jesus Christ...have YOU got no sense of reality? *ahem* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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