Soldier beheaded in London

[Yamato]

I think denying the role of Islam in these killings is just burying your head in the sand. There is little question of the motives of animals like those who killed that soldier. They shouted them quite clearly.

I posted what they shouted and I think you blew a blood vein. It's like mental slavery to keep spouting what the media tells you to and not allow yourself additional information about a subject. I feel sorry for you man I really do. Having all the information isn't "justifying" anything. It's understanding the motive of a crime correctly so you have a chance in hell of preventing the next one.

[dekker87]

Good news, the British people are refusing to take the bate been offered by the extreme right wing;

http://www.politics....of-action-flops

There is hope that wisdom may prevail.

These criminals will be subjected to a criminal trial and their guilt will be proven by due process, this is how fanatics should be dealt with.

Br Cornelius

they are terrorists not common criminals Cornelius.

they are linked to hate groups such as Al-Muhajiroun and the anti-democratic proto-fascists of the UAF.

in fact i think the police should start investigating the UAF after these terrorists (the killers of Lee Rigby) have been filmed on their marches whipping tUAF mobs up into a frenzy...

after all the EDL are found guilty (by those such as yourself who sit on the extreme left) of guilt by association because some of their supporters may previously have been members of another political party...surely then the UAF should be termed forever as 'terrorists' as they have had terrorists address their rentamobs in the past?

regarding your link to the 'failed' march in Oxford...the deputy mayor of oxford had this to say about the usual bunch of deluded middle and upper class crusties who turned up:

Anti-fascism memorial protesters 'were unruly'

7:00am Monday 3rd June 2013 in News

THE Deputy Lord Mayor of Oxford has criticised anti-fascist campaigners for an “unruly” protest against a far right group at the city’s war memorial.

Liberal Democrat Tony Brett said the Unite Against Fascism demo in St Giles showed “hate” to a planned event by the English Defence League (EDL).

The EDL planned a wreath laying at 1pm on Saturday for “fallen hero” Drummer Lee Rigby, killed in a terror attack in Woolwich on May 22.

The Oxford Mail attended the memorial from 12.45pm to 1.15pm and no wreaths were laid. There was no apparent EDL presence except for about 30 UAF protesters.

Oxford City Council member Mr Brett said the protesters “jeered” at people. He said: “The floral tributes were squashed and badly damaged and indeed one young woman tried to walk away with half of the flowers.”

There was “no sign” of EDL banners, clothing or “behaviour” he said, adding: “What I saw was a loud and unruly bunch who were showing hate towards what seemed to me to be a peaceful and lawful act of remembrance.”

Unite Against Fascism branch treasurer Tracy Walsh said it feared the EDL would use the event as a “smokescreen for their anti-Islamic views”

She said she did not see anyone damage the flowers and protesters “were mindful of the fact that it was a war memorial”.

The EDL had organised similar events around the UK. It was not available for comment. A small number of police attended the protest but did not intervene.

[Guest]

dekker87 you yourself are a fine example of how the extreme right wing are attempting to present yourselves as just reasonable law abiding citizens. I say treat criminals (murderers) as criminals - from whichever strip they come from. I am certain that the EDL and the UAF are both been heavily investigated for terrorist associations, and I am fairly certain they will find plenty on both sides.

I am not an exteme leftist - I am a liberal. There is a big difference which you would do well to understand when you assess the mood of the British people - who are overwhelmingly liberal in their outlook and why they find people, of any persuasion, trying to cause conflict on their streets deeply objectionable.

I lived through the 70's and 80's and saw how the National Front attempted to cause a race war on the British streets and i am more than grateful that a rainbow of Liberal groups managed to drive them off the streets - that is something we can all be grateful for and I hope it will not be necessary to repeat the same sorry story all over again.

Br Cornelius

Edited June 3, 2013 by Guest

[SHaYap]

Well I answered this, but my post seems to be missing, second times a charm hey.

You are not Judge nor Jury but you think that tourists who were invited to party are not to do so, and you can see why others would kill them for this? You're right, your not judgemental, you are a hypocrite.

says you who have never step foot on Bali //

*sigh

~SNIP

Not a great grasp on the English language have you?

Let's see .......

~SNIP

I think you are astoundingly arrogant, and rather than how I see you post in the UFO/ET section, this is more how I remember you from our first conversation. Very hypocritical.

Hypocritical

hyp·o·crit·i·cal

[hip-uh-krit-i-kuhl] nature of hypocrisy, or pretense of having virtues, beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually possess: The parent who has a “do what I say and not what I do” attitude can appear hypocritical to a child.

2.

possessing the characteristics of hypocrisy: Isn't a politician hypocritical for talking about human dignity while voting against reasonable social programs?

link

My values are give Bali a very wide berth, and that seems to really bother you more than anything. Bigotry? LOL, coming from the one who called Aussies pedophiles? I just hope you do come here one day and make that accusation, really I do. I'd like to see your jaw after that. You are as big a biogot as anyone I have ever seen.

How dare I ask for clarification! What arrogance! LOL. Do you suggest I do what you do, and just have my own conversation anyway? Like how you accused Aussies of being Pedophiles?

~snip

Quote - "Not a great grasp on the English language have you?"

You don't seem to read and comprehend very well // please refer to hyp·o·crit·i·cal above

You need more than that.

Bad behaviour? Yes, it might be wrong at times, people lose inhibitions when they drink. That is in no way punishable by death, no matter how you look at it. This is not anything "hitting the fan" It is an act of international terrorism, and part of a wave inspired by the Muslim Religion. And that was what I was saying, but Brittany was a little too gutless to answer the hard hitting questions. I think Muslims should abandon the religion, and force it out of existan ce for the sake of the world. They can say till the cows come home that 4 billion people do not agree with say 10,000 extremists, but as long as the faith remains, so will the extremists. For the sake of peace, should the religion just not be dismantled? Really, in this day and age, we are too knowledgeable to keep blaming things on some bearded massive man in the clouds. As it causes so much death today, what lies any value in this ideal? Why would someone want to have, or pray, to something that is known to inspire mass killing? Shouldn't the misuse of it make a few Muslims Scholars say Hrrmzz, this is not working out how we thought it would......... How long do people keep saying "ohhh, that 's just one small part, don't worry about them", but I am worried about them. And I do not know why anyone would want to give them a reason to keep going.

Quote - "You're right, your not judgemental, you are a hypocrite."

Quote - ""Not a great grasp on the English language have you?" "

In closing I'd like to tell you a story ... a story of an Aussie, yes an Australian who was there that night, he was with a Malaysian, yes a Muslim who was also there that night at that very spot. They survived the attack.

Did you know that the bomb blasts did not cause the majority of the number of lives lost ?

Did you know that most of the 'foreign' and local victims died from burns and smoke inhalation ?

Did you know that most of the locals that died there that night was trampled to death right at the entrance and the rest from smoke inhalation because they were knocked back into the place by 'heroic' foreigners that thought 'tourists first' and who knocked and bashed the locals out of the way in a stampede of 'foreigners first' dash out the door ?

Did you know that in that mad stampede out of the burning premise the 'foreigners' ran into the burning main facade that crashed down on them ?

Did you know that rescue efforts were hampered because the now drunk and paranoid "tourists' were bashing everything with a local color in sight and reach because they thought 'everyone' was out to get them and in effect caused more unnecessary lost of lives ?

Do you know of anyone who was there ... and was lost that night ?

Quote - "I think you are astoundingly arrogant,.... "

Did I say Australians ? Yes in this case ... I should say most of the 'foreigners' here is Australians ..... but not ALL Australians there that night was behaving as such ...

Let's hear your modus judiciary ... let us know what you think is the difference between the corpses and cadavers now

Quote - ""Not a great grasp on the English language have you?"

Maybe not

~cheers .....

~edit - Yes I do need a bit more than a beer ... digging up all this just helps no one ...

.

Edited June 3, 2013 by third_eye

[SHaYap]

Why, I wonder, are people so anxious to insist that these murderers were Terrorists? Is it so that they can intensify their feeling that they're living in a constant world of fear where Terrorists could strike at any moment, and we're powerless to do anything to stop them? I really don't understand why people are so anxious to live in fear of Terrorists. It's not as if it's remotely possible to do anything to prevent it, as someone from the Government very sensibly said the other day (and the Papers howled in shocked outrage). So why be so keen to insist that we're living in a world of fear and we're in a war that can never be won? It is, as i said before, the exact opposite of the "Keep calm and carry oN" attitude from the War. It's "panic as much as possible and live in a constant state of fear".

Saturday, May 25, 2013

Attacker's quote as it appeared in the Telegraph

“We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. Your people will never be safe. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

“We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you."

"Do you think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think your politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average guy like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so we, so you can all live in peace.”

Text in bold is what is often omitted in mainstream media's reporting. See link for source: Woolwich attack: terrorist proclaimed 'an eye for an eye' after attack

link

They can't handle the truth maybe my Colonel ? Or maybe the lies of the pasts is now in their own backyard coming back to haunt them ...

.

[dekker87]

dekker87 you yourself are a fine example of how the extreme right wing are attempting to present yourselves as just reasonable law abiding citizens. I say treat criminals (murderers) as criminals - from whichever strip they come from. I am certain that the EDL and the UAF are both been heavily investigated for terrorist associations, and I am fairly certain they will find plenty on both sides.

I am not an exteme leftist - I am a liberal. There is a big difference which you would do well to understand when you assess the mood of the British people - who are overwhelmingly liberal in their outlook and why they find people, of any persuasion, trying to cause conflict on their streets deeply objectionable.

I lived through the 70's and 80's and saw how the National Front attempted to cause a race war on the British streets and i am more than grateful that a rainbow of Liberal groups managed to drive them off the streets - that is something we can all be grateful for and I hope it will not be necessary to repeat the same sorry story all over again.

Br Cornelius

indeed cornelius...this is where you and your ilk are going very very wrong in your analysis of the EDL...this isn't a re-run of the 70's....because in the 70's black and asian immigrants WERE NOT chopping soldiers heads off in the street, were not blowing up tube trains and certainly were not using their race of their religion as an excuse to groom and rape young girls who were not of their race or religion.

you are clearly an extreme leftist...look at your avatar itself....communist imagery associated with the mass murdered Che....were someone to have a swastika themed avatar you would, quite rightfully, think of them as having sympathies for national socialists. why is there a difference there?

you are surely NOT a liberal...i AM a liberal...i believe in freedom and equality. for all.

i've done more to fight the likes of the BNP than you'll ever know...

I lived through the 70's and 80's and saw how the National Front attempted to cause a race war on the British streets and i am more than grateful that a rainbow of Liberal groups managed to drive them off the streets

then where were these fluffy rainbows of liberal (small L...i'm sure you dont mean david steeles lot) groups when choudray was out calling for jihad on the streets and the likes of al-muhajiroun were spewing hate against non-muslims?? where were the street protests then??

there were none....because those who term themselves the UAF are really reactionary far left 'socialists'....not really anti-fascists at all...else it wouldnt matter what skin colour the fascists had....they would protest...

and so today the true heirs to the crown of those who fought against NF scum in the 70's belongs to the EDL.

[Guest]

Try to skew it any way you like. There is a clear lineage between the NF and the EDL.

The anti-fascists have extremist elements - but predominently they are ordinary young people who remember where the far right would take us as a nation - because they saw it in the history of Europe.

The Muslim extremists are another minority faction which are shunned and despised by the majority of British and Muslims alike. They will wither like all extremists do because they are unrepresentative. The law will root them out and prosecute them for their hate crimes. This is how a Secular Liberal nation deals with its fanatics.

As to the Avatar, ever heard of Irony

I do however have some sympathy for the position taken by the criminals - the streets of the UK would be massively safer from Muslim extremists if the UK wasn't interefering in the internal politicals of the Middle east and other Muslim nations. That is a self evident truth - violence and hate breeds more violence and hate.

Br Cornelius

Edited June 3, 2013 by Guest

[dekker87]

Try to skew it any way you like. There is a clear lineage between the NF and the EDL.

the show me that lineage?

are you referring to members of the white working class??

is that what threatens you and the bourgeois UAF so much??

black members of the EDL actually severely injured members of the NF a year or so ago when they tried to join a march.

and i don't remember the neo-nazis of the national front ever supporting Israel, gay rights or having sikh, hindu, jewish and LGBT divisions??

why can't you extreme left blockheads understand that??

really can't get my head round it....is it just a lot of angry working class white people that scare you?? regardless of their motives and issues?

[dekker87]

'hate crimes'

you call yourself liberal and yet you believe in prosecuting people who disagree with your point of view?

rank hypocrisy.

[Guest]

'hate crimes'

you call yourself liberal and yet you believe in prosecuting people who disagree with your point of view?

rank hypocrisy.

Hate crimes are crimes designed to lead to violence and harm to others. Insighting a crime of violence against another is a prosecutable offence.

Its really very simple and has little to do with disagreeing with someone else.

Prosecuting crimes of violence or intent to violence as terrorist crimes is undemocratic and prevents real justice from been done, we have the last 10years of American history to bare witness to that. We are a Liberal secular democracy and if we abandon those principles in a war agianst terrorism and extremists we have lost the best part of our nation and most of our citizens rights into the bargin. It maybe more difficult to do the right thing in defending our nation, but we should still hold to our founding principles.

Br Cornelius

Edited June 3, 2013 by Guest

[Guest]

the show me that lineage?

are you referring to members of the white working class??

is that what threatens you and the bourgeois UAF so much??

black members of the EDL actually severely injured members of the NF a year or so ago when they tried to join a march.

and i don't remember the neo-nazis of the national front ever supporting Israel, gay rights or having sikh, hindu, jewish and LGBT divisions??

why can't you extreme left blockheads understand that??

really can't get my head round it....is it just a lot of angry working class white people that scare you?? regardless of their motives and issues?

I come from a working class background and overwhelmingly support the right to a decent working class life based on an honest wage for honest work. You couldn't be more wrong.

Br Cornelius

[dekker87]

I come from a working class background and overwhelmingly support the right to a decent working class life based on an honest wage for honest work. You couldn't be more wrong.

Br Cornelius

then from a purely socialist point of view you disagree with the mass immigration of recent years as wages have been brought down by the import of labour from countries where the living costs are but a fraction of those in the UK?

also - please show me the lineage between the EDL and the NF - prove your point and you'll never see me make another post in support of the EDL....sincerely.

[Guest]

then from a purely socialist point of view you disagree with the mass immigration of recent years as wages have been brought down by the import of labour from countries where the living costs are but a fraction of those in the UK?

also - please show me the lineage between the EDL and the NF - prove your point and you'll never see me make another post in support of the EDL....sincerely.

I disagree with mass immigration because it has been a policy of the globalist's to drive down wages and conditions in the UK.

Br Cornelius

[dekker87]

Hate crimes are crimes designed to lead to violence and harm to others. Insighting a crime of violence against another is a prosecutable offence.

Its really very simple and has little to do with disagreeing with someone else.

Br Cornelius

then why was anjem choudray not locked up?? omar bakri mohammed?

where was your outrage when these Islamist extremists were spewing their hate??

sorry but i find your words disingenuous....like the SWP (UAF) you only seem angry now that working class british people are taking to the streets...

i genuinely pity you....i dont think you understand this situation at all....and honestly it worries the hell of me that our self-appointed anti-fascist brigade are getting this so fundamentally wrong....using the 1970's template is a HUGE error of judgement.

i honestly supported the UAF in the past...i've done some things for them to do with the BNP that i don't want to advertise on a public website....i've no instinctive hatred for anyone who calls themselves anti-fascist....quite the opposite...but their actions in regard to the EDL are shockingly poorly thought out....

if peace on the streets was genuinely their concern there are other ways of going about it than violent confrontation.

I disagree with mass immigration because it has been a policy of the globalist's to drive down wages and conditions in the UK.

Br Cornelius

fair enough.

i agree.

[dekker87]

also - please show me the lineage between the EDL and the NF - prove your point and you'll never see me make another post in support of the EDL....sincerely.

i'm still waiting Cornelius....

i do hopre you're going to be honest here and hold your hands up if their is no basis to your position...

[dekker87]

I do however have some sympathy for the position taken by the criminals - the streets of the UK would be massively safer from Muslim extremists if the UK wasn't interefering in the internal politicals of the Middle east and other Muslim nations. That is a self evident truth - violence and hate breeds more violence and hate.

apologies...i missed this earlier.

you believe that the murderers of Lee Rigby did so because of our presence in Afghanistan?

do you then agree with the basic fascism of the Taliban? you'd be very hard pressed to find a less liberal regime anywhere in the world....but if you believe that we shouldnt be there....you're effectively saying that you have no desire for the UK to fight fascism militarily anywhere in the world...

so then you believe we shouldnt have entered ww2?

[Guest]

i'm still waiting Cornelius....

i do hopre you're going to be honest here and hold your hands up if their is no basis to your position...

Not at all, the movement was born out of football hooliganism and many of the people who were once involved in the NF drifted sideways into the movement. The leaders do a valient job in attempting to distance themselves from their utra-right wing groups buts its doesn't take much scratching to get the smell of facism from the rank and file.

Br Cornelius

[+and-then]

I'm over hearing terrorist attack. These were two sick individuals. People don't just all of a sudden decide to hack up someone in the streets because of race or religion reasons. These individuals were not living in a 3rd world country so they can not use the excuse of "we see this happen everyday" because they don't. I believe this wasn't a terrorist attack it was more a case of sick people using race as an excuse to commit an evil crime

Did the attakers not explain that religion is precisely why they did the crime? I admit that I have shied away from reading about this poor guys demise because I get very, VERY angry when I ponder this too much but I could swear I heard one of the perps confessed it was about Islam.

[dekker87]

Not at all, the movement was born out of football hooliganism and many of the people who were once involved in the NF drifted sideways into the movement.

Br Cornelius

football hooliganism has no relation to far-right politics other than in the petty minds of middle class leftists with no idea what they're talking about.

is that what you're actually saying?? that because some football lads are involved that shows the EDL as far-right?

the EDL was actually formed about, as i'm sure you're aware, as a reaction to Islamists demonstrating against british soldiers homecoming parade calling them baby killers and such like...it so happened that some of those there were prepared to meet such behaviour with the contempt that it deserved...

The leaders do a valient job in attempting to distance themselves from their utra-right wing groups buts its doesn't take much scratching to get the smell of facism from the rank and file.

then scratch and show me the smell of fascism?? is that in it's LGBT division?? it's Sikh division?? howabout it's Jewish division??

[Guest]

apologies...i missed this earlier.

you believe that the murderers of Lee Rigby did so because of our presence in Afghanistan?

do you then agree with the basic fascism of the Taliban? you'd be very hard pressed to find a less liberal regime anywhere in the world....but if you believe that we shouldnt be there....you're effectively saying that you have no desire for the UK to fight fascism militarily anywhere in the world...

so then you believe we shouldnt have entered ww2?

The history of British interference in Muslim natiopns affairs goes back over 200 years, its frankly impossible to conjecture what the Middle East and Afghanistan would look like if we hadn't been involved. We are so embedded and so causal in the tragedy that has unfolded throughout the region that to disengage at this stage would be difficult at best. However we are firmly seen as dishonest and partisan brokers of peace with self interest which are diametrically opposed to those of the countries we intervene in. We could do a lot to change that situation and lance the boil of our long history of interference in foreign countries.

We went into Iraq and afganistan to further American interests because we are effectively a colony of the USA, it had a massive effect on bolstering the rhetoric of Muslim extremists and bring terrorism to our own back door. When your in a hole, the best policy is to stop digging deeper.

The situation is certainly not simple, but to try to say that we are anything other than a cause of Muslim discontent is nieve at best.

Br Cornelius

[dekker87]

Did the attakers not explain that religion is precisely why they did the crime? I admit that I have shied away from reading about this poor guys demise because I get very, VERY angry when I ponder this too much but I could swear I heard one of the perps confessed it was about Islam.

that's exactly what he said yes.

[Space Commander Travis]

they are terrorists not common criminals Cornelius.

they are linked to hate groups such as Al-Muhajiroun and the anti-democratic proto-fascists of the UAF.

in fact i think the police should start investigating the UAF after these terrorists (the killers of Lee Rigby) have been filmed on their marches whipping tUAF mobs up into a frenzy...

after all the EDL are found guilty (by those such as yourself who sit on the extreme left) of guilt by association because some of their supporters may previously have been members of another political party...surely then the UAF should be termed forever as 'terrorists' as they have had terrorists address their rentamobs in the past?

regarding your link to the 'failed' march in Oxford...the deputy mayor of oxford had this to say about the usual bunch of deluded middle and upper class crusties who turned up:

So what purpose does insisting that they were Terrorists serve? Does it give them some justification? Does it make you feel angrier? Surely either of those would just be doing what they wanted.

[dekker87]

The history of British interference in Muslim natiopns affairs goes back over 200 years, its frankly impossible to conjecture what the Middle East and Afghanistan would look like if we hadn't been involved. We are so embedded and so causal in the tragedy that has unfolded throughout the region that to disengage at this stage would be difficult at best. However we are firmly seen as dishonest and partisan brokers of peace with self interest which are diametrically opposed to those of the countries we intervene in. We could do a lot to change that situation and lance the boil of our long history of interference in foreign countries.

We went into Iraq and afganistan to further American interests because we are effectively a colony of the USA, it had a massive effect on bolstering the rhetoric of Muslim extremists and bring terrorism to our own back door. When your in a hole, the best policy is to stop digging deeper.

The situation is certainly not simple, but to try to say that we are anything other than a cause of Muslim discontent is nieve at best.

Br Cornelius

and i scratch the surface of your politics and this is what comes forth.

but you're a liberal yeah?

did you support saddam hussein and his treatment of your fellow travellers??

in amongst your heroic street fighting of the 80s did you find time to protest against saddams treatment of the trades unionists of iraq?

[dekker87]

So what purpose does insisting that they were Terrorists serve? Does it give them some justification? Does it make you feel angrier? Surely either of those would just be doing what they wanted.

ermmm...it's more accurate perhaps??

are we just going to jettison truth in the name of political correctness?

[SHaYap]

that's exactly what he said yes.

not 'exactly' dekker87 ... this makes the third time I've posted this ... I wonder why ?

Saturday, May 25, 2013

Attacker's quote as it appeared in the Telegraph

“We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. Your people will never be safe. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

“We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you."

"Do you think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think your politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average guy like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so we, so you can all live in peace.”

Text in bold is what is often omitted in mainstream media's reporting. See link for source: Woolwich attack: terrorist proclaimed 'an eye for an eye' after attack

link

you guys are being manipulated to further the ambitions of the hate mongers ...... in this particular case ....

~edit - missing link

.

Edited June 3, 2013 by third_eye