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danielost

why did satan get kicked out of heaven

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danielost

This has been mentioned in another thread. But, no one wants to derail that thread to discuss it.

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind. Satan wanted to force us back to god. God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

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Mnemonix

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind. Satan wanted to force us back to god. God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

That would make Satan Mr. Nice Guy trying to get humans to be faithful to God? And it's funny because God wanting people to have freewill means allowing people to sin.

Why did Satan get kicked out of Heaven.

Islam: Didn't want to bow down before Adam as commanded by Allah. So Satan is sentenced to Hell when the day of judgment comes. But in the meantime, he's allowed to mislead mankind, his worst enemy (because of his grudge with Adam).

From what I've been taught.

Edited by Mnemonix
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Simbi Laveau

Truth be told,his mouth wash and deodorant just weren't making it ...

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danielost

That would make Satan Mr. Nice Guy trying to get humans to be faithful to God? And it's funny because God wanting people to have freewill means allowing people to sin.

Why did Satan get kicked out of Heaven.

Islam: Didn't want to bow down before Adam as commanded by Allah. So Satan is sentenced to Hell when the day of judgment comes. But in the meantime, he's allowed to mislead mankind, his worst enemy (because of his grudge with Adam).

From what I've been taught.

With out freewill you don't grow/learn.

If your dad never let's go of the bike how do you learn to ride.

Edited by danielost
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Mnemonix

With out freewill you don't grow.

Maybe not, but with God everything is possible.

If he wanted to make us develop, grow and learn without freewill, why not? Shouldn't be a problem for someone who created the whole universe(s).

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pallidin

To my EXTEMELY layman's knowledge, it is not possible(excepting special, granted, circumstance) to be before God unless "pure in heart"

Else one would be immediately either "thrown-out" of the "highest dimension" or destroyed in far less than a nano-second.

EDIT: Again, though, I have no solid clue. Just speculation on my part.

Edited by pallidin
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danielost

Maybe not, but with God everything is possible.

If he wanted to make us develop, grow and learn without freewill, why not? Shouldn't be a problem for someone who created the whole universe(s).

Then maybe we just found out that god has limits.

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pallidin

As far as "why", it seems as if God, and that most high dimension, has 'certain rules" of which "Satan" violated.

Thus, Satan was remanded to a lower dimension.

Just my take on it. I am by no means any authority on that subject, as I doubt any human is.

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pallidin

Then maybe we just found out that god has limits.

God can not destroy itself. That, by no means whatsoever, makes God not God.

Silly argument.

Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift, blah, blah, blah.

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Mnemonix

Then maybe we just found out that god has limits.

Then maybe we just found out that "god" has limits.

God can not destroy itself. That, by no means whatsoever, makes God not God.

Silly argument.

Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift, blah, blah, blah.

Can God destroy itself?

Sure, if God can do anything.

Will God destroy himself?

Doing so isn't what God does, so no.

Going a little off topic...

Let's talk about Satan.

Edited by Mnemonix

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pallidin

Proving, or dis-proving God or Satan has never been done.

Good luck.

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jugoso

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind. Satan wanted to force us back to god. God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

Never heard that one. Who taught you that?

I guess it all depends on what book you choose to believe.

The whole thought of God and Satan having an argument is amusing to me. We are certainly a confused lot.

Edited by jugoso
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Mnemonix

Proving, or dis-proving God or Satan has never been done.

Good luck.

Tell that to the theists.

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J. K.

This is one explanation from Isaiah 14. He sought to be equal with God. "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

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Odd Requiem

I was under the impression that Satan had a different opinion than God.

So God was like, "whoa, there's only room for one chef in this kitchen!"

And so Satan was sent to the kitchen with no ventilation system.

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Mnemonix

Good god, how many reasons can Satan have to be kicked out of Heaven? :w00t:

I think it all comes down to what you believe or want to believe.

I'll go for the Islamic view, since I was raised Muslim.

What happened or how it happened doesn't really concern me, so this thread isn't really for me.

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Etu Malku

As God's first creation, the angel Lucifer would not bow down to another creation lesser than he, would only serve God. This was the premise for his damnation from Heaven. Lucifer would then become Satan, the ruler of the physical world.

And yet, Lucifer as the Serpent was not finished. In the Garden he exlains to Eve that if they eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, which God forbid, then they would have the ability to be as gods themselves.

Didn't sit too well with his Almighty I guess? :passifier:

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Sir Wearer of Hats

Depends on who you ask.

Some (as Etu malku said) say it's because he wouldn't bow before god's latest creation (man), some say it's because he decided that he could run things better then the Boss others even say that he's just doing the job God gave him because man was too stupid to be able to understand that God can be all things at all times - so thus good and evil.

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moonshadow60

According to the Bible, the Dragon was cast out of heaven because of rebellion, pride, and the selfish desire to be like or even surpass the Lord.

“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Revelation 12:7-9)

I am no expert, but I can read.

PS. Ayuh; edited again.

Edited by moonshadow60

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the eternal me

hmm.....

i have never seen any truth to this satan/lucifer fellow being all that valid.....

from what i have read and come to understand...

satan or the aspect of lucifer boils down to choices..

all things that can be considered acts of satan can be summed up as selfish choices...

the story of lucifer is embodying the thought pattern of "me first above all" ....

me me me me .......

when your in the thought pattern of me me me me ......

how can you see what it is that is before you? ....

good or bad? ....

how can you think through a series of where this choice will go? ....

how can your intuition cut through the muddled thoughts of "what’s in it for me?" ....

to be selfish is to cut yourself off from everything.....

hence..... cast out of heaven....

heaven being a place of joy and happiness....

to share in life and what makes you happy....

and smiling and bringing a smile to the faces of others....

how is this not a place of heaven? ...

nirvana....

whatever you chose to call it.....

satan and lucifer is not a being....

its a way of thinking....

a way of being.....

nothing more.....

but thats just my $0.02

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moonshadow60

Eternal Me; that's an interesting point of view.

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the eternal me

i have never seen anything that was considered "evil" that could not be viewed as selfish....

there are all kinds of examples from history...

when you look at the psychology of people that were considered evil....

you see selfish choices...

children in pain and acting out...

for whatever reasons they may have had...

still, the hurt inner child.... acting out....

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third_eye

945260_588711087819709_2138349639_n.jpg

give me a moment .... I have to think this over ....

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shrooma

I reckon god & ol' nick were showering off after a hard day's smiting, god had a quick peek, got jealous, and hoofed satan out!

the fact that god got someone else to do the nasty when he knocked mary up just proves god's got a maggot d**k!

probably why he's so angry all the time.....

;-)

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Arpee

This has been mentioned in another thread. But, no one wants to derail that thread to discuss it.

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind. Satan wanted to force us back to god. God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

Assuming that the things said here are true:

I doubt "Satan" and "God" wuld need to be in an argument of how to "save mankind". If God is perfect and created mankind then they are created perfectly. Remember, the "fall of man" only happened AFTER eating the futre (according to The Bible).

It's interesting that you mention that "Satan" wanted to force, because without Satan there cannot be free-will, think about it.

If God creates everything perfectly, then everything will do things according to their perfect creation - the only way for that not to happen is to offer opposition ("Ha Satan") to make another choice that doesn't seem to be so perfect with it's own creation...

but Even if Satan IS giving free-will by offering another choice... who made Satan?

God!

So , "Satan" is only giving an illusion of imperfection when all things were perfect all along.

Edited by Arpee
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