why did satan get kicked out of heaven

[spiritualghosthaunting]

Eternal life thanks to a jew named christ, now they need to accept for themselves.

Not everyone is christian and the book of revelation is going to be fulfilled. Satan has followers but you don't understand it because you get your wisdom from satan.

[spiritualghosthaunting]

You can reject the existence of God and even of the spiritual world, but the more I see of this world, the more I see a reflection of a reality that is based on falsehood and illusion... and ignorance of the real world beyond.

I have willingly chosen to follow God and at the end of my journey He will be there to meet me...

You're not waiting for a christianized utopia to usher in Jesus like postmillennialism.

[Jor-el]

You're not waiting for a christianized utopia to usher in Jesus like postmillennialism.

No, any ushering will be done by Jesus himself...

[Etu Malku]

The real question is, who is saving who? Is it god saving his people or his people saving him? Seems to point more to the latter.

Saving from WHAT?

You're looping.

http://www.unexplain...75#entry4814928

oops . . . better than pooping!!

[danielost]

Not everyone is christian and the book of revelation is going to be fulfilled. Satan has followers but you don't understand it because you get your wisdom from satan.

I get my wisdom from the bible, my expearence, and my brain. I know not everyone is a chritian. You don't have to be to receive eternal life. The only ones who will go to outer darkness(hell), are those who commit unforgivable sins. These will include satan and the fallen angels for turning their backs on god.

According mormon teachings murder and suicide are two of these.

[markprice]

who made who?

[markprice]

Gods plans for mankind are what you are referring to Gods plans for his children is something else.

They are all his children.

Are you Jewish?

And what plan would that be?

The whole thing.

[Jor-el]

They are all his children.

Are you Jewish?

No they are not all his children... to be a son/daughter of God means accepting the Messiah as exactly who and what he says he is.... it is an adoption into the family, that many refuse. These may be called offspring of God, but in no way can they be called Children of God.

He disinherits the rebellious and the unbelieving... “How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the signs I have performed among them?"

He has done it to the whole of humanity twice in the past.

There is a class of people (those with honest and good hearts) who, though not yet children of God in actuality, are so potentially. The potential exists for them to become children of God, but it is a not a given or a certainty that they will take the step to do so.

I am not Jewish.

[danielost]

Sorry jor-el I disagree. Everyone who has ever lived is a child of god, they don't need to be christian. Further satan and the fallen angels are children of god. But, they turned their backs on him.

Whe n in the flood story, they refer to te sons of god and the daughters of man. I think they refered them this way. Because god created adam, and used a rib from adam to make eve. Adam stated this is flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood. So not only was eve a clone of adam, but god also changed her genes.

Edited July 6, 2013 by danielost

[xYlvax]

Because Lucifer, being the subject of light, wanted people to know things.

He wanted the truths to be told and not let faith lead.. He wanted people to have a grasp on things and not be led by a dull shepherd of sheep.

Looking at many-not all- Christians now, maybe they should've listened, before taking the bible as a literate truth. Ugh.

What I seek to understand is how people can be so outright stupid.

[Jor-el]

Sorry jor-el I disagree. Everyone who has ever lived is a child of god, they don't need to be christian. Further satan and the fallen angels are children of god. But, they turned their backs on him.

Whe n in the flood story, they refer to te sons of god and the daughters of man. I think they refered them this way. Because god created adam, and used a rib from adam to make eve. Adam stated this is flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood. So not only was eve a clone of adam, but god also changed her genes.

You may disagree, it doesn't mean you are correct. Let me put it another way, children of God who despise God can't exactly call themselves his children, they may be so at the level of created beings, but that is not all that a child of God is, they can and will be judged and destroyed by God himself.

Satan is a son of God by his nature as an elohim and an angel, but his fate is sealed. Likewise all men who reject God, may still be called children of God at a basic level, but they are anything but that.

the sons of God in Genesis are not referring to human beings, they are referring to elohim, gods, angels, all three are exactly the same thing, just different hierarchies of that thing.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Jor-el

[markprice]

No they are not all his children... to be a son/daughter of God means accepting the Messiah as exactly who and what he says he is.... it is an adoption into the family, that many refuse. These may be called offspring of God, but in no way can they be called Children of God.

Couple problems with that kind of thinking: 1) Jews don't necessarily accept your messiah. 2) Jesus said a child is accepted because innocence is the only requirement. 3) the bible recognized many sons of God and Jesus always called himself the son of man. 4) your difference between offspring and children is meaningless. 5)etc.etc.

He disinherits the rebellious and the unbelieving... “How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the signs I have performed among them?"

Children anywhere in the world before or after the bible was compiled have spiritual opportunities regardless of religions.

He has done it to the whole of humanity twice in the past.

To disinherit in the sense you are meaning is only through denial of the Holy Spirit, which is the same as saying someone who hates love will not be loved. I'm not aware of any children with that attitude.

There is a class of people (those with honest and good hearts) who, though not yet children of God in actuality, are so potentially. The potential exists for them to become children of God, but it is a not a given or a certainty that they will take the step to do so.

Well, not according to Jesus. Be like a child because they will all be accepted by God, before you (or something like that).

Edited July 6, 2013 by markprice

[GoldenWolf]

Saving from WHAT?

His spirit, dishonor, shame, etc...

[Jor-el]

Couple problems with that kind of thinking: 1) Jews don't necessarily accept your messiah. 2) Jesus said a child is accepted because innocence is the only requirement. 3) the bible recognized many sons of God and Jesus always called himself the son of man. 4) your difference between offspring and children is meaningless. 5)etc.etc.

Jews do not accept the Messiah.... yet.

A child is a child, they are innocent, however... adults are not children and they are NOT innocent.

The bible recognizes only one kind of "sons of God" in the Old Testament and they are never human beings...

The bible recognizes a type of "son of God" or "child of God" in the New Testament and these are uniquely human, but.... they are also only those who follow Jesus and are known as Christians.

By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.

Children anywhere in the world before or after the bible was compiled have spiritual opportunities regardless of religions.

The children... not the adults, not the ones who can distinguish right from wrong. These cannot be called innocent.

Innocence saves you from condemnation by sin, until you hear the Gospel and are permanently washed in the blood of Jesus Christ by accepting it.

To disinherit in the sense you are meaning is only through denial of the Holy Spirit, which is the same as saying someone who hates love will not be loved. I'm not aware of any children with that attitude.

Most of the world has denied the Holy Spirit since most of the world has heard the Gospel and refused it... to refuse the Gospel is to deny the Holy Spirit.

Well, not according to Jesus. Be like a child because they will all be accepted by God, before you (or something like that).

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

He gave us the right, the right is NOT innate in all of us as human beings, it only happens to those who receive Jesus Christ in their hearts.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Jor-el

[Etu Malku]

The whole thing.

What "thing"?

Further satan and the fallen angels are children of god. But, they turned their backs on him.

The Satan you are talking about is a construct of the Judeo-Christian mind, as is the Abrahamic god. The Fallen angel concept is from the Book of Enoch (written 300 BC - 1BC) it was written as a statement against Greek Hellenic religion.

Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche. This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is the negative definition of what we believe is human. He is a social and cultural phenomenon and as old as humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them".

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi". The Jewish Essenes called non-Essenes "ha satan" (adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).

So, who is this Satan? He is who you are not!

Whe n in the flood story, they refer to te sons of god and the daughters of man. I think they refered them this way. Because god created adam, and used a rib from adam to make eve. Adam stated this is flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood. So not only was eve a clone of adam, but god also changed her genes.

In Pre-Christian cosmology Lilith is the first wife of Adam, and she is created equal to Adam in ever respect, but because of Adam's chauvinism she rebels and demands to be treated as an equal. Because of this the Abrahamic god creates a new, subservient wife for Adam, made from Adam and Lilith is tossed aside.

The Flood story is from the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and the Sons of God and Daughters of Man are references to the Nephilim in the Book of Enoch . . . Read all about it here

[markprice]

What "thing"?

Everything.

Jews do not accept the Messiah.... yet.

And each Jew would need to accept a messiah, which their religion does not recognize, on an individual basis, not as a tribe. In that sense the Jews are not special, which is what you are saying. I totally reject the notion that one tribe is inherently better than another in God's eye. A bloodthirsty tribe of warriors following a wrathful deity may change its ways, or not. Individuals in every tribe throughout history have a far better chance of realizing the truth alone as opposed to waiting for the tribe to change its mind and repent for them its evil ways. The whole planet is like that; where religion fails individuals often succeed.

A child is a child, they are innocent, however... adults are not children and they are NOT innocent.

The bible recognizes only one kind of "sons of God" in the Old Testament and they are never human beings...

The bible recognizes a type of "son of God" or "child of God" in the New Testament and these are uniquely human, but.... they are also only those who follow Jesus and are known as Christians.

It's not about age; it is about heart. Then let's leave the inhuman sons of God out of it because Jesus called himself the son of man. I fall into that category because of my dad; same with every kid who was ever born. Now you are saying only Christians can be sons of God. And you think some day all the Jews will become Christians. By the same token all the Tibetans may some day become Christians but I really doubt that.

By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.

Right, but what exactly do you think God is if not the father of all creation. I'll go one step further and say all creatures are sons and daughters of God if they are male or female or both.

The children... not the adults, not the ones who can distinguish right from wrong. These cannot be called innocent.

Innocence saves you from condemnation by sin, until you hear the Gospel and are permanently washed in the blood of Jesus Christ by accepting it.

For Christians the gospel is the truth; for others the truth is "gospel". Truth can be found in many places.

Most of the world has denied the Holy Spirit since most of the world has heard the Gospel and refused it... to refuse the Gospel is to deny the Holy Spirit.

That's not how it works. To effectively deny something you have to know exactly what that something actually is and not just say it is something else, like "gospel" or books. If the Holy Spirit being what it is descended on some person with no interest in religion or gospel and that person said "GO AWAY! I hate you!" then you got real denial of the Holy Spirit. That changes the feeling offered to hatred. There is no logical way to forgive that act unless the situational decision changes from that person's perspective. The word is that particular sin cannot be forgiven, not that it could never be forgiven, if you can see the difference.

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

He gave us the right, the right is NOT innate in all of us as human beings, it only happens to those who receive Jesus Christ in their hearts.

Jesus Christ is a humanized aspect of the Holy Spirit. He is not unique in that aspect. All a person has to do is recognize God the father and they are then in that aspect: the father/son relationship.

[Etu Malku]

Every"thing" I keep reading on this thread . . . I believe the wrong One got kicked outta Heaven!

[Jor-el]

And each Jew would need to accept a messiah, which their religion does not recognize, on an individual basis, not as a tribe. In that sense the Jews are not special, which is what you are saying. I totally reject the notion that one tribe is inherently better than another in God's eye. A bloodthirsty tribe of warriors following a wrathful deity may change its ways, or not. Individuals in every tribe throughout history have a far better chance of realizing the truth alone as opposed to waiting for the tribe to change its mind and repent for them its evil ways. The whole planet is like that; where religion fails individuals often succeed.

Excuse me Mark but are you saying that they aren't at this time waiting for their Messiah? Are you saying that a Messiah is not part of their beliefs?

If you are then you need to study the faith a little more.

Let me put it to you that many Jews have already accepted Jesus as their Messiah, not a majority but not a few either. They are called Messianic Jews because they do NOT want to be identified as Christians who are completely ignorant of what the Jewish faith says about the messiah and who are well known for intolerance towards Jews...

[media=]

[/media]

You can reject the notion but the bible is clear, Gods plans work through the nation of Israel. Everything to do with the 2nd coming of Jesus is tied up with Israel and the fate of Israel and what Israel does... not the USA or the UK or any other nation or tribe.

It's not about age; it is about heart. Then let's leave the inhuman sons of God out of it because Jesus called himself the son of man. I fall into that category because of my dad; same with every kid who was ever born. Now you are saying only Christians can be sons of God. And you think some day all the Jews will become Christians. By the same token all the Tibetans may some day become Christians but I really doubt that.

Yes only Christians can be called sons and daughter of God, that is exactly what the bible says... believe it or not at your own expense. But let me ask you.. what are Christians?

They are gentile Messianic Jews. They are adopted into the promises made to Israel, not the other way around... there is no such thing as a Christian religion, we are really adopted Jews.

Right, but what exactly do you think God is if not the father of all creation. I'll go one step further and say all creatures are sons and daughters of God if they are male or female or both.

He is the creator, he is not the father of all creation. He is father to those that love him...

Do not confuse the issue with different terminology. God created us all, but not all are children of God as is the right of those the believe and follow him. The others do not have that right until they too recognize this truth.

Why is this so hard to accept? Does not Jesus himself say that many are children of Satan?

1 John 3:10

Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

John 8:44

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

For Christians the gospel is the truth; for others the truth is "gospel". Truth can be found in many places.

No it can't, you can find the appearance of truth... that is an entirely different story.

That's not how it works. To effectively deny something you have to know exactly what that something actually is and not just say it is something else, like "gospel" or books. If the Holy Spirit being what it is descended on some person with no interest in religion or gospel and that person said "GO AWAY! I hate you!" then you got real denial of the Holy Spirit. That changes the feeling offered to hatred. There is no logical way to forgive that act unless the situational decision changes from that person's perspective. The word is that particular sin cannot be forgiven, not that it could never be forgiven, if you can see the difference.

I understand that it is It is the work of the Holy Spirit to both convict us of wrongdoing and to convince us of God's truth

Whom are you rejecting when you reject the Gospel?

Jesus Christ is a humanized aspect of the Holy Spirit. He is not unique in that aspect. All a person has to do is recognize God the father and they are then in that aspect: the father/son relationship.

Jesus is not a humanized aspect of the Holy Spirit, The bible explains this in painstaking detail...

Hebrews 1:3

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.

This means that Jesus is the visible and physical manifestation of God. The part of God that has physicality rather than spirit.

Colossians 1:15-20

15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Jesus then is the part of God that we humans can actually see, that is why when we find God being seen, it is Jesus whom they are seeing.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Jor-el

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Jesus Christ is a humanized aspect of the Holy Spirit. He is not unique in that aspect. All a person has to do is recognize God the father and they are then in that aspect: the father/son relationship.

Hi Mark,

Try this thinking-cap: Jesus/God ("binitarian monotheism") equals digital, and sons of God and human souls are analog recordings.

Sons of God are recorded on "metal" cassette tapes...while human souls are recorded on "chrome."

Sons of God and human souls will NEVER be fully digital, even after the End of Time.

Peace.

[danielost]

Jor-el there is only two problems with your statement. 1 jesus was not a christian. 2 he refered to god as your father in heaven. 3 he said all are saved through his sacrifice.

if you wanted more than to be just saved. Then you have to do the work he told us to do. Talking about him on here is doing that work. The bible also says those who never heard of him would get a chance after death to chooe him. But there is no baptism or marriage in that place. Which is why mormons do baptism and eternal marriages for the dead.

Edited July 6, 2013 by danielost

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

"Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.'" John 6:53-54

[danielost]

To bad for those who died before he began his mission. To bad for those in south africa, china, the new worldwho died before christians showed up.

[Jor-el]

Jor-el there is only two problems with your statement. 1 jesus was not a christian. 2 he refered to god as your father in heaven. 3 he said all are saved through his sacrifice.

if you wanted more than to be just saved. Then you have to do the work he told us to do. Talking about him on here is doing that work. The bible also says those who never heard of him would get a chance after death to chooe him. But there is no baptism or marriage in that place. Which is why mormons do baptism and eternal marriages for the dead.

No Jesus was not a Christian, He was a Jew and we are not Christians either, we are adopted into the Jewish family, not the other way around.

Romans 11:24

After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

We the gentiles are grafted onto the cultivated tree called Israel, but not just any Israel, but the Israel of promise. Not the modern Israel or the Israel that follows Judaism, but the Israel that God envisioned and promised to Abraham.

Yes he does refer to "your father in heaven", but he was after all speaking to Israel, he did not mean humanity here. he is in fact speaking to us the believers and followers of the promise.

And all are indeed saved through his sacrificed, abut again the "all" here is NOT humanity, but those that do believe and accept Jesus as savior.

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

There are not many ways to be saved... only one way! by Jesus very own words.

As for these people getting a further chance... that is a possibility but it is not in scripture. I cannot defend what isn't there. But knowing Gods love and mercy, it is a possibility.

Baptism and marriage are mere symbols, that do not carry on into the next phase of our existence. We will not be eternally married, we will have no need of marriage were we are going.

Baptism is a symbol of death to the world, it will mean nothing to those that are resurrected in the body since they, like Jesus are victors over death, they have already dies and received the promise of salvation.

[GoldenWolf]

Every"thing" I keep reading on this thread . . . I believe the wrong One got kicked outta Heaven!

Did anyone ever think, maybe they are both maniacs... and evil.

Edited July 6, 2013 by HavocWing

[Jor-el]

To bad for those who died before he began his mission. To bad for those in south africa, china, the new worldwho died before christians showed up.

Why is it too bad?

They are judged under a different light. They will not be judged by the Law. God is nothing if not JUST, he will decide with justice and with mercy as he will do with all of us as well. Their very spirits could not be in better hands.