why did satan get kicked out of heaven

[markprice]

Do we really want to go to creationism / Genesis? Here ya go, Mark, and have a fun time reading:

http://www.michaelsh...nd creation.pdf

http://michaelsheise...enome-research/

The way I see it, the other important thing is that Jesus Christ is a co-creator of this world. Plus, here's what I mean: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" -- Revelation 21:1.

Since I've seen Jesus, His weight among other so-called gods is the highest. As far as I'm concerned, what have the other gods done for me? Well...you may want to ask the same question. Jesus has already proven Himself to me. It's a no brainer.

Peace.

Jesus is the third principal: the word. It goes: God: first principal, image of God second and the word is third. I'm not about to read links on creationism; if you think something is true just say it concisely. There is no "In the beginning" in Genesis. The bible starts off on the wrong foot intentionally to avoid the fact that it was derived from the principals that include emanation which totally undermines the dogma of Christianity, not Jesus. Paul may have been a sexual neurotic but he did get some things right [Hebrews 2:9 non-revised]

[Jor-el]

It is just in opposition what you desire and project your desire to be.

Ok I didn't get that, somehow I'm missing the meaning of your phrase.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Who said the Holy spirit had or needs human form?

Discernment is the ability to tell male from female (no form required) or evil from divine etc.

It's a natural ability often clouded by dogmatic thinking which falls away with experience.

dis·cern

[dih-surn, -zurn] Show IPA

verb (used with object)

1.

to perceive by the sight or some other sense or by the intellect; see, recognize, or apprehend...

Since I've already seen Jesus Christ, everything (the way I process things, beliefs, faiths, etc.) is based on Him. Everything else is tertiary because secondary is too close for comfort -- ha ha. If Jesus/God were not the main God, the book and its teachings would be useless to me, at this stage of my life. It's bad enough that there's so much reading in Christianity. I feel like a studio reader jockeying for a better position. Time is of the essence, for I'm no spring chicken and I'm a very busy man. I use the Holy Bible because it's the closest thing that describes Him; therefore, it's the book I closely follow, and the most important narrative in the world. You, on the other hand, don't have to follow it. Like I said, your experience is more in the Gnosticism. At any rate, to focus on one thing is the key for me. Focus, focus, focus.

Not Talking about Jesus, I was talking about Christianity. Christian thought and acts are often the exact opposite of what Jesus believed and taught.

It can't stand on a faulty platform IMO.

I'm not here to judge other Christians, how they think and act. Negativity is negativity and there's a lot of that going on, but I don't have to be around it. Some even say that not all Christians are "born again." Thankfully, Jesus forgives our mistakes, and He knows what's in our hearts.

How could it not stand, especially since Jesus/God is the central hero? That's basic storytelling 101. The hero has been defined, proven good and just...and hailed as a TOTAL savior. No other god has shown himself or herself to me, especially in my hour of need. The afterlife is the most important test -- I don't have to tell you that because you already know what that's like. A God's action and personal appearance speak louder than written words. True conversion doesn't happen by words alone.

No, I never saw HS in human form.

IMO keep Christ and question the dogma...

People say that every path leads to God. Well, I'm a good example of that, people seem to forget. I started out as a hardcore pagan mystic (I mean, I was channeling energies, for goodness sake!) and ended up with Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I was NOT damned in hell, contrary to what many Christians believe about a non-Christian's fate. Even in the afterlife, there is still hope and redemption. Jesus Christ is not a petty God. To me, the Holy Bible is a reference book, a Holy manual...but then again, I'm not your normal Christian, either, because of my Christ experience. In the end, my faith in Jesus Christ is a private affair. He already knows what's in my heart.

Here's the one thing about mysticism that I've learned: Results are important; otherwise, the path is an illusion. Mind you, I'm not saying that mysticism is not real. True enough, it will dish out the material goodies -- no problem. It will even do more than that. Like I said, I was channeling "energies" as a teacher / conduit. Here's what I'm asking, however: Will it be there for you in the afterlife?

On the other hand, there are consequences when we switch sides...

Peace to you, Mark.

Edited July 10, 2013 by braveone2u

[Jor-el]

You are just doing back-flips to deny the obvious. They used feminine words to describe a feminine aspect. Any child confronted by the holy spirit would sense it to have a feminine quality so the authors of the bible presented it in that way for that exact reason.

I have been filled with the Holy Spirit on occasion, and not once have I ever felt the feminine aspect you state is there... not even a male aspect either... I just felt the extreme presence of Holiness that left me on my back. I sensed God.

And I don't do backflips, what I do is study the Hebrew and learn from those who know it.

If that were true I would have to agree with you but all this precedes ancient Egypt/Moses/etc. by thousands of years [see India].

Does it precede ancient Mesopotamia and Sumeria?

Because that is where it originates from. As such 4000 B.C. is being conservative... India is 3500 B.C. almost 500 years later. The Vedas, which the religious texts you are indirectly referring to are of comparable age to the bible though...

The difference is that they speak of events from a human memory and as such have as much fact as myth... I don't believe it to be the case with the bible. In may ways they actually complement one another as religious works.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Jor-el

[Etu Malku]

"The bible is a historical recounting of the history of mankind, it supersedes philosophies that are only a few thousand years old."

Hardly . . . the Christian bible is not an accountable source for history, any scholar will tell you that.

The principle of the Feminine is not the opposite of Masculine as we are so used to making comparisons of, it is exactly like how modern psychology understands it, as one of two primary anthropomorphic archetypes of the unconscious mind. In the unconscious of the male, this archetype finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

This "holy spirit" thing everyone is mentioning is in Luciferian philosophy, our Higher Self, but not our most perfect Self. We refer to this as our Dæmon from the Platonic/Socratic philosophies and while it is true that someone in 'conversation' with their Dæmon is being guided much like the Abrahamic 'Guardian Angel", this higher self is only brought into our consciousness through the Arts.

[markprice]

I have been filled with the Holy Spirit on occasion, and not once have I ever felt the feminine aspect you state is there... not even a male aspect either... I just felt the extreme presence of Holiness that left me on my back. I sensed God.

At the end of the day that is what matters.

And I don't do backflips, what I do is study the Hebrew and learn from those who know it.

And others who know about it: the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages:

Condemned by Catholics and Protestants alike, Michael Servetus was arrested in Geneva and burnt at the stake as a heretic by order of the Protestant Geneva governing council.

In his first two books (De trinitatis erroribus, and Dialogues on the Trinity plus the supplementary De Iustitia Regni Christi) Servetus rejected the classical conception of the Trinity, stating that it was not based on the Bible. He argued that it arose from teachings of Greek philosophers, and he advocated a return to the simplicity of the Gospels and the teachings of the early Church Fathers that he believed pre-dated the development of Nicene trinitarianism.

Does it precede ancient Mesopotamia and Sumeria?

Yeah, over 10,000 years ago is where some of the information can be traced; I don't remember where I read that though.

Because that is where it originates from. As such 4000 B.C. is being conservative... India is 3500 B.C. almost 500 years later. The Vedas, which the religious texts you are indirectly referring to are of comparable age to the bible though...

Some anthropologists hypothesize that the region was settled by multiple human migrations over tens of millennia, which makes it even harder to select certain groups as being truly aboriginal.

The difference is that they speak of events from a human memory and as such have as much fact as myth... I don't believe it to be the case with the bible. In may ways they actually complement one another as religious works.

The sources of the Indian knowledge go back to Atlantis like everything else, alledgedly, or for example they know that it took 40,000 years to map the sky(including astrological aspects). But then you are getting into the realm of secret societies with unbroken transmission beyond archaeological history.

Just to sum up: I didn't know that emanationists exist before today. Something has always struck me as false about Gnosticism so I don't go there. I don't really believe emanationism literally but I have experienced emanation yet that would not make me want to study kabala. I was able to spend some time recently in the amazing library of the Philosophical Research Society but I disagree with a certain percentage of MP Hall's teachings. I do not believe there is any system I agree with entirely. What I do agree with is the theory that each system is a part of of something greater that reveals itself as you progress. I don't know how this is done but it happens all the time and just when you think you've lost the thread knowledge continues in some form. They say if you talk about it you risk breaking the thread, but I say so what, let it break and see where that takes you...and so it continues.

Edited July 11, 2013 by markprice

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I do not believe there is any system I agree with entirely. What I do agree with is the theory that each system is a part of of something greater that reveals itself as you progress. I don't know how this is done but it happens all the time...

Exactly. Like seeing Jesus Christ (in the afterlife)... The next step...

[jorge_carrillo]

Because of arrogance. Satan felt to be almost as equal to God. That is the temptation that satan puts to us, the same temptation that he fell,

[danielost]

Because of arrogance. Satan felt to be almost as equal to God. That is the temptation that satan puts to us, the same temptation that he fell,

Satan/lucifer wanted to sit above god. But, no one can sit above god. As for god being male or female. He is male. But he is also married. So maybe mom visits us. The holy spirit is jusdt that a spirit. He voluntered to remain a spirit to help us choose the right path. But, if you don't listen, he will stop trying. Physical beings can only be in one place at a time. A spiritual one can be. Every where at the same time. God and jesus are physical beings. The beingthat jacob wrestled with was physical. So it wasn't jesus who was spirit at the time.

[danielost]

I believe atlantis was the name of the world before the flood.

[Dark_Grey]

As for god being male or female. He is male. But he is also married. So maybe mom visits us.

Since when is God married?

[danielost]

Since when is God married?

Since when was it said he wasn't. It is a mormon belief.

[Dark_Grey]

Since when was it said he wasn't. It is a mormon belief.

That explains it.

[Jor-el]

At the end of the day that is what matters.

I agree...

And others who know about it: the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages:

Condemned by Catholics and Protestants alike, Michael Servetus was arrested in Geneva and burnt at the stake as a heretic by order of the Protestant Geneva governing council.

In his first two books (De trinitatis erroribus, and Dialogues on the Trinity plus the supplementary De Iustitia Regni Christi) Servetus rejected the classical conception of the Trinity, stating that it was not based on the Bible. He argued that it arose from teachings of Greek philosophers, and he advocated a return to the simplicity of the Gospels and the teachings of the early Church Fathers that he believed pre-dated the development of Nicene trinitarianism.

I don't know his works and what they contain but I do agree with his position in that we view the trinity incorrectly, as a matter of fact we can't even honestly claim Monotheism either... What we do have is something called Binatarian monotheism, but even that is not entirely correct

Maybe the best response is Binatarian Henotheism.

Which will shock many people who may read this but is true nonetheless. Yes there is an element of the Trinity involved since we continue to have a Deity that is Father, Son and Holy Spirit... it is merely that the classical interpretation is incorrect.

Yeah, over 10,000 years ago is where some of the information can be traced; I don't remember where I read that though.

Yes, I've heard the claim as well, the problem is that we can just as easily say 20.000 or even 30.000... without evidence it is hot air... Verifiably neither are over 4000 years old but Yahweh beats the other by 500 years or so. Although they are both based on the very same God, the God of the bible.

Some anthropologists hypothesize that the region was settled by multiple human migrations over tens of millennia, which makes it even harder to select certain groups as being truly aboriginal.

True, we can only go by the verifiable evidence. And they may all be from common stock since the ancient Sumerians were not Middle Eastern peoples... Since I do believe we are in fact all descended from Noah, then it isn't a problem for me either way.

The sources of the Indian knowledge go back to Atlantis like everything else, alledgedly, or for example they know that it took 40,000 years to map the sky(including astrological aspects). But then you are getting into the realm of secret societies with unbroken transmission beyond archaeological history.

Atlantis is merely a name for the Antedilluvian world, before the flood... or as the Vedas put it, the previous world civilization before ours.

Just to sum up: I didn't know that emanationists exist before today. Something has always struck me as false about Gnosticism so I don't go there. I don't really believe emanationism literally but I have experienced emanation yet that would not make me want to study kabala. I was able to spend some time recently in the amazing library of the Philosophical Research Society but I disagree with a certain percentage of MP Hall's teachings. I do not believe there is any system I agree with entirely. What I do agree with is the theory that each system is a part of of something greater that reveals itself as you progress. I don't know how this is done but it happens all the time and just when you think you've lost the thread knowledge continues in some form. They say if you talk about it you risk breaking the thread, but I say so what, let it break and see where that takes you...and so it continues.

Hmmm, in my case the broken thread led to Christ....

Edited July 11, 2013 by Jor-el

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

"At the end of the day that is what matters."

I agree...

What about luciferianism? They believe in "...worshiping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential, as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity." This goes for other mystical paths -- apotheosis. Their "sense" of their "God"/Self is the total opposite of Christian doctrine.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

They say if you talk about it you risk breaking the thread, but I say so what, let it break and see where that takes you...and so it continues.

That saying is actually one of the rules of my former lineage. The reasoning for that is to surrender all "earthly" distractions because they are all illusions. "God" (not the Christian God) or Self is the only real truth. "Awakening" is part of this doctrine. Also, to talk about one's experiences could even hinder or divert other's spiritual journey since one hasn't achieve that "enlightenment." Christianity is different because we have the Bible and Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit to guide us. When you become a "born again," you automatically become a saint, and this means that you are guaranteed passage to New Earth/Heaven/Paradise because your name is already written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Unlike luciferianism and mysticism you can never become a god, like Jesus/God -- we could never be equal to our Jesus/God. Edited July 11, 2013 by braveone2u

[Jor-el]

"At the end of the day that is what matters."

What about luciferianism? They believe in "...worshiping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential, as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity." This goes for other mystical paths -- apotheosis. Their "sense" of their "God"/Self is the total opposite of Christian doctrine.

True, and I believe that is the Litmus test on whether something is from God or not... from within comes not enlightenment but self delusion.

[danielost]

Jesus christ equals selflessness.

Lucifer equals selfishness.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." Matthew 5:8

As a Christian, I believe we, human beings, are NOT geared to know or judge the purity of our hearts WITHOUT the grace of Jesus/God. Therefore, without this grace, we won't be able to see Jesus/God. To think otherwise would be like...getting kicked out of Heaven since Heaven is the abode of Jesus/God, and earth is a mere construct (in the process of being replaced by something better and eternal).

"For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and more abundantly toward you." 2 Corinthians 1:12

"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that NOT of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10

Unlike Christianity, mysticism is through one's efforts or will (and sometimes, with the blessings of one's ancient lineage that one is able to spiritually evolve faster than its usual course)...and eventually become a god.

[ellapenella]

That may be true, but this kingdom is not Your Kingdom, you will never be truly Free as long as you remain a civilian in this kingdom.

You are an author? What is the name of the book, I would like to purchase it.

I disagree, opposites are delusions, duality is the Dance of Maya, it is illusion. There are no opposites there are polar extremes of the same thing. Darkness is not the opposite of Light, Darkness is the Womb that gives birth and enables Light to exist.

I'm not the author , sorry if it sounded that way, I didn't mean for it to. It's just a paperback book that I've purchased .The title is: The Eighth Chakra .The authors name is Jude Currivan PhD...

The kingdom of Heaven reply was meant as that which is within us , not dogmatic at all. I agree with pretty much all of what you've said in this reply.It's the way i understand things too...

Darkness comes from the mind , knowledge is light . It's like the term " let there be light" ( or) "out of darkness comes light" . I recall that you mentioned you do not accept the theory of duality at all, I respect that. I get what you're saying.Also, it seems to me that what you said regarding duality (or) polar opposites, and that which is in the book I'm reading are of the same understanding, at least to me it seems so...

But like i tried to explain , it's tricky . How do we know for certain that, if someone extremely benevolent most likely will transform or become malevolent .I've heard the string theory approach to this from both sides that offer completely different theories...

[ellapenella]

I do not like universalism, it dilutes the Word of God... if God was a universalist in the message he gave us, he would not have commanded us to preach the Gospel to the ends of the world... since each religion would be that societies truth as God revealed it to them... sorry doesn't make sense.

Jor-el, hi. I'm not sure of what you mean , what doesn't make sense for you ? that the Spirit that exist within the universe ,of what I refer to as the creator is universal ? I don't believe i need anyone to tell me that in any text, it's just that for me it's apparent , it's obvious in nature that it is universal... .

[ellapenella]

Hi Reann,

Here's a fascinating video I found on Youtube that you may want to see since you're interested in cultural branches and Christian diversity:

God bless.

Thanks. I don't really believe that the ark of the covenant exist. I've wondered though, what did Moses exactly take from out of Egypt ?

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

I've wondered though, what did Moses exactly take from out of Egypt ?

I think this is what you're asking: "And Joseph said to his brothers, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land to the land which he swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and you shall carry up my bones from hence. So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt." Gen 50:24-26

Peace.

[ellapenella]

No , no, not at all. That's not what I questioned. I wondered what did Moses take when he left there? What did he do before he left? and i don't mean the story about the wrath of God or the plagues upon Egypt as told in - I think Exodus....

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Writing down the name of God on a piece of paper and flinging it into the Nile...?