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danielost

why did satan get kicked out of heaven

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Etu Malku

How I understand it was that it was a lot of things which got Satan kicked out, for one he kept challenging gods rule, he hated the fact that god made man to be immortal ( because angels arent ) he constantly kept going back and forth from earth to heaven and making trouble, the date he got kicked out of heaven was in 1914. That was also the time that archduke ferdinand got assassinated also.

Yeah 1914 . . . :geek:

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ReaperS_ParadoX

Where did you get this date from? Sounds very mysterious.

that was when archduke ferdindinand died, wars broke out over that, Thats just what iv been taught

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Mikko-kun

WW1 was around then, and it was just year after they discovered Pluto, the era of deeper rebellions. I just wondered where those teachings come from, I can see how they're easy to associate with that era, as satan too as I've understood, was a rebel.

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ReaperS_ParadoX

WW1 was around then, and it was just year after they discovered Pluto, the era of deeper rebellions. I just wondered where those teachings come from, I can see how they're easy to associate with that era, as satan too as I've understood, was a rebel.

Yeah when he "fell from Heaven" all of the turmoil really started ramping up in the world

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Insaniac

Where do you see that?

Typically misinterpreted . . . The fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king (Nebuchadnezzar), who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel.

If you are to believe this then you should have no trouble believing that Jesus is also Lucifer?

Wow... You're blind... Your mind's eye is blind.

Jesus Christ and Lucifer are not one and the same. Christianity and Satanism wouldn't be one another's antithesis if they were.

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captain pish

You guys do know that the bible is just a fictional tale right?

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Jor-el

Don't mistake Satan as only the anti-Christian boogeyman created by the Judeo-Christian world. He is much more than that Abrahamic name, Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche.

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is the negative definition of what we believe is human. He is a social and cultural phenomenon and as old as humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them".

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi". The Jewish Essenes called non-Essenes "ha satan" (adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).

So, who is this Satan? He is who you are not!

I don't accept that Satan is merely an archetype of all human evil, or other evil we consider others to have.

He is exactly what the bible portrays him to be.

One who desires the end of humanity.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

In Michael was a...

Luciferianism sounds like a neatly packaged Buddhism. Is Luciferian "enlightenment" the same as Nirvana ("to extinguish")?

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Jor-el

Wow... You're blind... Your mind's eye is blind.

Jesus Christ and Lucifer are not one and the same. Christianity and Satanism wouldn't be one another's antithesis if they were.

What was meant was that the title "Morning Star" or "Lucifer", is merely that, a title, a title that is applied to both Jesus Christ and to Satan, of the two who is the more deserving of the title?

We are culturally and socially inclined to associate the title with Satan but the title actually belongs to Jesus, Satan the usurper has taken that title for himself without merit.

Revelation 22:16

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Isaiah 9:2

The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.

Isaiah 60:1-2

"Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord rises upon you and his glory appears over you."

John 8:12

Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

So who in fact is the light bringer?

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ReaperS_ParadoX

What was meant was that the title "Morning Star" or "Lucifer", is merely that, a title, a title that is applied to both Jesus Christ and to Satan, of the two who is the more deserving of the title?

We are culturally and socially inclined to associate the title with Satan but the title actually belongs to Jesus, Satan the usurper has taken that title for himself without merit.

Revelation 22:16

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Isaiah 9:2

The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.

Isaiah 60:1-2

"Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the Lord rises upon you and his glory appears over you."

John 8:12

Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

So who in fact is the light bringer?

Are you a satanist?

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Etu Malku

Wow... You're blind... Your mind's eye is blind.

Jesus Christ and Lucifer are not one and the same. Christianity and Satanism wouldn't be one another's antithesis if they were.

Well you see, that's why Christianity and Luciferianism are not each others antithesis . . . I'm talking about Lucifer not Satan, two entirely different subjects.

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Etu Malku

Luciferianism sounds like a neatly packaged Buddhism. Is Luciferian "enlightenment" the same as Nirvana ("to extinguish")?

There are Zen-like qualities to Luciferianism, but we never relinquish the ego.

"We do not dwell within god; we become god." - from Sadhanasita

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markdohle

This has been mentioned in another thread. But, no one wants to derail that thread to discuss it.

I was taught, basically that satan and god got into an arguement over how to save mankind. Satan wanted to force us back to god. God wanted us to have freewill here as we did in heaven.

Without free will we would lose our deep level of self awarness, our higher brain, so we would no longer exist, we would be reduced to the level of just being an ape, an intelligent one to be sure, but human.... no. In order for humans to grow in consciouness we need free will, failure and our struggle with questions that we may never fullly answer. The most intelligent ape, I believe is not capable asking these questions, they are intelligent and have some degree of self awarenss, just not like ours I would sumise. So to force us to some sort of heaven for robots would not be relational at all.

Edited by markdohle
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Jor-el

Are you a satanist?

Nope, I am a born again Christian.

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danielost

Lucafer is called the angel of light.

Jesus is the light of the world.

Two totally different titles.

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Jor-el

Lucafer is called the angel of light.

Jesus is the light of the world.

Two totally different titles.

And one is "called" the angel of light, but he isn't the light of anything. Usurping a title does not mean it is yours.

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danielost

And one is "called" the angel of light, but he isn't the light of anything. Usurping a title does not mean it is yours.

I don't know the scripture, but christ called lucifer the angel of light.

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Jor-el

I don't know the scripture, but christ called lucifer the angel of light.

I can't find it if it exists.

Paul on the other hand said this...

2 Corinthians 11:14

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

and even here, it is not that he is an angel of light but that he masquerades as one.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

There are Zen-like qualities to Luciferianism, but we never relinquish the ego.

"We do not dwell within god; we become god." - from Sadhanasita

Isn't that the most basic principle of mysticism, that a human being's essence is god? And to say that one still dwells within god is pure ignorance of one's true nature? Therefore, what's so new about Luciferianism, except for the fact that your deity (or guide or friend or rescuer) is Lucifer? On the other hand, "...we never relinquish the ego" is its unique aspect, but it doesn't really match up to enlightenment because to lose one's ego is, in fact, beyond one's control. Have you ever heard of the word "Awakening"? Also, what's your definition of "ego"?

At any rate, this is really at the center of the Fall of Man, but I'm viewing this through my "born again" Christian lens with my (former) mystical background (Kundalini, Atlantian channeling, and wizardry) in the mix with which to scrutinize things.

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ellapenella

There are many gods. Which one? Do an internet search on Cayce and freemason. Add ancient Egyptian mysticism and reincarnation. He was channeler but you know that.

Edgar wasn't a channeler / medium.. Are you suggesting that because he was able to tap into the subconscious mind of whom he was reading, that the universal consciousness , which he was able to place his mind in contact with made him something other than a good man ?He knew there was but one God , he acknowledge that , so i don't know why you're asking me which god ? why are you asking me that ?

Research is good , surprising at times . Did you know that plenty came from Egypt that is in the bible ? Such as the story of the virgin birth ? And, the ten commandments ?

“Throughout his life, Edgar Cayce claimed no special abilities nor did he ever consider himself to be some kind of twentieth-century prophet. The readings never offered a set of beliefs that had to be embraced, but instead focused on the fact that each person should test in his or her own life the principles presented. Though Cayce himself was a Christian and read the Bible from cover to cover every year of his life, his work was one that stressed the importance of comparative study among belief systems all over the world. The underlying principle of the readings is the oneness of all life, tolerance for all people, and a compassion and understanding for every major religion in the world.” (Excerpted from an article by the Edgar Cayce Foundation, taken from Edgar Cayce's ESP: Who He Was, What He Said, and How it Came True, by Kevin J. Todeschi.)

clearpixel.gif

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/edgar_cayce.html

Do you find difficulty in accepting that last paragraph of an excerpt from Edgar Casey Foundation?

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ellapenella

I don't know the scripture, but christ called lucifer the angel of light.

The word " transformed" as in satan himself transformed into an angel of light in 2nd. Corinthians ch.11 verse 14 , it could of been in reference to temptation , the appearance of sin doesn't always appear as bad.

This concept could also refer to other concepts such as people who look to manipulate others in ways like leading them into cults and such, and, or, those who convince people to give their earnings to them for a good cause , in which the money doesn't really go to charity , but , to make these people lives extremely luxurious.

How do you interpret the meaning of that statement in 2nd.Corinthians ch.11 verse 14? It was one of Paul's letters, I think.

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ellapenella

"So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone." JAMES 2:24

James 2 - 24 . The story in that chapter was about genuine Faith and how faith results in good works. Paul and James were talking about Abraham in which James says Abraham was justified " declared righteous" because of what he did .

Paul said that he was justified because of what he believed ( Romans 4:1-5).

They were complementing one another, in that belief brings us salvation , and , active obedience demonstrates that our faith is genuine.

Edited by Reann

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

James 2 - 24 . The story in that chapter was about genuine Faith and how faith results in good works.

Amen. Genuine faith in Jesus Christ/God is a must, and to be His disciple we must love one another.

Peace to you, Reann.

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Etu Malku

I don't know the scripture, but christ called lucifer the angel of light.

No where in any Christian bible does Jesus address Lucifer
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Etu Malku
Etu Malku, on 02 June 2013 - 11:40 AM, said: There are Zen-like qualities to Luciferianism, but we never relinquish the ego.

"We do not dwell within god; we become god." - from Sadhanasita

Isn't that the most basic principle of mysticism, that a human being's essence is god?

Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. I'm spaking about not a god a separate from self and monotheistically. I'm speaking apotheosis / self-deification.
And to say that one still dwells within god is pure ignorance of one's true nature?

Therefore, what's so new about Luciferianism, except for the fact that your deity (or guide or friend or rescuer) is Lucifer?

I never said that Luciferianism is something new, in fact it is older than any Abrahamic religion, older than Egyptian, Vedic, and Sumerian religions.

Through the Luciferian Principle humanity first climbed down from the trees and it has represented the flow of progress ever since. But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!

A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

On the other hand, "...we never relinquish the ego" is its unique aspect, but it doesn't really match up to enlightenment because to lose one's ego is, in fact, beyond one's control. Have you ever heard of the word "Awakening"? Also, what's your definition of "ego"?
I think I'm quite familiar with the word. I define Ego as does all of Modern Psychology.

Ego, in and of itself is the balance between Id (reptilian/animal/instinctual) Self and the Superego (inflated, megalomania, delusion of grandeur) Self. A balanced, contained Ego is desired.

"The ego is the center of consciousness, whereas the Self is the center of the total personality, which includes consciousness, the unconscious, and the ego. The Self is both the whole and the center. While the ego is a self-contained little circle off the center contained within the whole, the Self can be understood as the greater circle" - Carl Jung

Where the Ego can fail is when it is not Individuated. It then becomes the reflection of our false Self and not our true Self, a projection of our desires and our shadows. The LHP is not to give up on or surrender the Ego, also not to overly focus on Ego, but to synchronize, synthesize, and expand Ego to reflect our Higher Self.

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