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danielost

why did satan get kicked out of heaven

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Beckys_Mom

He was kicked out because he wouldn't keep up with his rent payments..He asked for discount and god sad on yer bike

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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danielost

No where in any Christian bible does Jesus address Lucifer

This is wrong he addressed him three times during his forty days of fasting. Besides you are misunderstanding that post. He was telling his desiples this not satan. Mormons use more scriptures than most christians.

Edited by danielost

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Jor-el

This is wrong he addressed him three times during his forty days of fasting. Besides you are misunderstanding that post. He was telling his desiples this not satan. Mormons use more scriptures than most christians.

Hmm perked my funny nose of curiosity... aren't Mormons, Christians as well? Why the separation if they are the same faith?

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

[/b][/size]Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. I'm spaking about not a god a separate from self and monotheistically. I'm speaking apotheosis / self-deification.

I never said that Luciferianism is something new, in fact it is older than any Abrahamic religion, older than Egyptian, Vedic, and Sumerian religions.

Through the Luciferian Principle humanity first climbed down from the trees and it has represented the flow of progress ever since. But Lucifer may be more than a metaphor for rebellion, enlightenment and advancement - as the pure creative and motive light, Lucifer may actually be the key to life itself . . .

The DNA within the nuclei of all cells of living creatures contains biophotons or ultra-weak proton emissions - in other words, light!

A dynamic web of light constantly released and absorbed by the DNA connects cells, tissues and organs and serve as the organism's main communication network.

Lucifer is on the move inside you and me, chattering between cell and cell, rousing the cohorts of the life-force, keeping us alive and wonderful. Every man and woman is a star - and now we know we have our own inner light.

I think I'm quite familiar with the word. I define Ego as does all of Modern Psychology.

Ego, in and of itself is the balance between Id (reptilian/animal/instinctual) Self and the Superego (inflated, megalomania, delusion of grandeur) Self. A balanced, contained Ego is desired.

"The ego is the center of consciousness, whereas the Self is the center of the total personality, which includes consciousness, the unconscious, and the ego. The Self is both the whole and the center. While the ego is a self-contained little circle off the center contained within the whole, the Self can be understood as the greater circle" - Carl Jung

Where the Ego can fail is when it is not Individuated. It then becomes the reflection of our false Self and not our true Self, a projection of our desires and our shadows. The LHP is not to give up on or surrender the Ego, also not to overly focus on Ego, but to synchronize, synthesize, and expand Ego to reflect our Higher Self.

Hi EM,

Well, I'm talking about "real" mysticism, not book-defined mysticism. In "real" mysticism, one becomes god, or one will realize one's "god" truth or nature -- at least that's the theory. "Real" mysticism will go beyond exaltation (apotheosis) because you will go beyond the flesh, material reality, and your understanding of what makes a being a god -- at least that's the theory.

Again, it is the reason why "real" mystics put a lot of weight on "Awakening" because resurrection has a way of slashing out the unnecessary trimmings of many paths and techniques. "Real" mysticism is not about book knowledge.

You believe that you're "true" nature or essence is made up of light; tell me that again after you come back from the dead. Only through "Awakening" that one has the means to really understand ego. As your saying goes, "He is who you are not!" It's actually about the "real" you, not Satan, because you are not ego.

To understand ego, you have to have a truth by which to compare it...and the best truth is resurrection. There is no ifs or buts about it. It's so final.

Here's a profound verse: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." -- Matthew 25:30.

Here's another one: "When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.'”

Do not assume that your essence is automatically made up of light.

Peace to you, Etu.

Edited by braveone2u

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Etu Malku

Hi EM,

Well, I'm talking about "real" mysticism, not book-defined mysticism. In "real" mysticism, one becomes god, or one will realize one's "god" truth or nature -- at least that's the theory. "Real" mysticism will go beyond exaltation (apotheosis) because you will go beyond the flesh, material reality, and your understanding of what makes a being a god -- at least that's the theory.

If you want to define Mysticism your way that is fine, and then "yes" Luciferianism is a Mystical religion.
You believe that you're "true" nature or essence is made up of light; tell me that again after you come back from the dead. Only through "Awakening" that one has the means to really understand ego. As your saying goes, "He is who you are not!" It's actually about the "real" you, not Satan, because you are not ego.
Luciferians have little to nothing to do with Satan or Satanism. I didn't say our Essence/Ka was made up of light. I have no intention of "coming back from the dead" whatever that means.
To understand ego, you have to have a truth by which to compare it...and the best truth is resurrection. There is no ifs or buts about it. It's so final.
In order to understand what 'ego' is, one must understand what it is not first. I don't understand how 'resurrection' can be referred to a Truth, perhaps you might elaborate on that?
Here's a profound verse: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." -- Matthew 25:30.

Here's another one: "When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, 'I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.'”

Cool, here's a few verses from Our Bible -

Statement of Satan 1:7

"But finally my Will flamed to life, and I thought - and I perceived my Self, and I knew that I was one alone in mind and a being of essence unique. And through the power of my new mind, I reached cut to others who had been formed with me, and I touched them and gave them identity. And that we might achieve this identity of substance as well as of mind, we composed for ourselves distinctive shapes. Then I who had brought the first great spark of enlightenment was known as Lucifer, Lord of Light, and we called our race angel, for we were the embodied powers of God."

Statement of Beelzebub 2:2

"In the divine realm was I of company to Archangel Lucifer next only to Archangel Michael, and as Archangel Masleh would be to God, so I desired to be to Lucifer. But the Lord of Light admonished me, saying, Lose not thyself in the Will of Lucifer, for I am not God and will offer thee no blissful nirvana - Witness now the nature of the mind that dwells within me."

]Do not assume that your essence is automatically made up of light.[/b]

Peace to you, Etu.

I think I addressed this above . . . and Ut diabolus Benedic vos, to you braveone

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danielost

Hmm perked my funny nose of curiosity... aren't Mormons, Christians as well? Why the separation if they are the same faith?

Mainly because we believe christ came here after his death, to teach the people in america. We also use the book of mormon, which chronicals god's dealings with them. We also believe there at least thirteen prophets on the planet, the church leaders.

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Etu Malku

Mainly because we believe christ came here after his death, to teach the people in america. We also use the book of mormon, which chronicals god's dealings with them. We also believe there at least thirteen prophets on the planet, the church leaders.

Don't forget the aliens! :alien::tu:

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ellapenella

Hmm perked my funny nose of curiosity... aren't Mormons, Christians as well? Why the separation if they are the same faith?

No. Mormons follow Joesph Smith .If they were Christians they would place their trust in Christ and not in Smith. There's a lot you should look up if you are unaware of what the Mormon belief consist of.They do not follow the Bible teachings of Christ but they follow and revere Joseph Smith immensely .

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

I have no intention of "coming back from the dead" whatever that means.

In order to understand what 'ego' is, one must understand what it is not first. I don't understand how 'resurrection' can be referred to a Truth, perhaps you might elaborate on that?

Cool, here's a few verses from Our Bible -

Statement of Satan 1:7

"But finally my Will flamed to life, and I thought - and I perceived my Self, and I knew that I was one alone in mind and a being of essence unique. And through the power of my new mind, I reached cut to others who had been formed with me, and I touched them and gave them identity. And that we might achieve this identity of substance as well as of mind, we composed for ourselves distinctive shapes. Then I who had brought the first great spark of enlightenment was known as Lucifer, Lord of Light, and we called our race angel, for we were the embodied powers of God."

Statement of Beelzebub 2:2

"In the divine realm was I of company to Archangel Lucifer next only to Archangel Michael, and as Archangel Masleh would be to God, so I desired to be to Lucifer. But the Lord of Light admonished me, saying, Lose not thyself in the Will of Lucifer, for I am not God and will offer thee no blissful nirvana - Witness now the nature of the mind that dwells within me."

I think I addressed this above . . . and Ut diabolus Benedic vos, to you braveone

Resurrection is a truth because it has power to dispel ignorance. Ignorance is thinking that one is automatically made of light and one has the will (without help from an outside source) to return to one's dead decaying body. Through resurrection, one is able to understand that it is also ignorance to think that one's identity (what we are projecting to the world) is permanent, and that this world is all there is. Alas, a true power has to be behind resurrection, but resurrection is not mandatory, but apparently, according to the Bible, human beings will be resurrected one day... Again, a true power has to be behind resurrection, and even the supposedly "rising and dying gods" didn't accomplish this feat.

God, the Almighty, is not offering blissful nirvana. He's offering eternal life since a human being is not automatically immortal (the Fall of Man comes to mind here). Eternal life is not the same as "enlightenment," for humans are not equal to, or greater than, God...but that's my strong faith in my savior Christ (the God who rescued me from the Void) talking. Therefore, I'm being biased. Just because I'm a Christian, I hope you don't think I'm judging your belief system. I was trying to understand your personal take on this matter. I see that you're totally devoted to your beliefs; nevertheless, Jesus is always there, if all else fails, if you have a change of heart.

Have a good morning, EM.

Edited by braveone2u

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Arpee

Exactly what took place in the metaphorical Garden of Eden . . . the Almighty presented Free Will with punishment if His Will was not followed . . . that is not Free Will, that is Blackmail.

The idea of 'Free Will' I have alsways thought to be incorrected stated . . . it should mean "Freedom from the Will of Another"

The term 'Fallen-Angel' is found neither in the Hebrew Bible nor the Deuterocanonical Books nor the New Testament. The Hebrew Bible does not say that Satan is an angel, nor that he is fallen: it uses the corresponding Hebrew word 'ha satan', which means "adversary".

The entire legend comes from the Book of Enoch, but they are Grigori (Watchers) and are not 'fallen' or 'banished' from heaven.

Yes, freedom from the will of another - that is a perfect definition. I think the bible does talk about fallen angels - it causes them "The Nephelim" , isn't "Nephelim" a Hebrew word meaning "Fallen"?

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Etu Malku

Resurrection is a truth

How can something that has never been proven or even evidenced be a Truth?
. . . because it has power to dispel ignorance. Ignorance is thinking that one is automatically made of light and one has the will (without help from an outside source) to return to one's dead decaying body.
Now there's a statement if I've ever heard one . . . how exactly does resurrection dispel ignorance? I don't know what dictionary you use but Merriam Webster defines it as a "lack of knowledge, education, or awareness" . . . I didn't see anything about Light, did you?
Through resurrection, one is able to understand that it is also ignorance to think that one's identity (what we are projecting to the world) is permanent, and that this world is all there is. Alas, a true power has to be behind resurrection, but resurrection is not mandatory, but apparently, according to the Bible, human beings will be resurrected one day... Again, a true power has to be behind resurrection, and even the supposedly "rising and dying gods" didn't accomplish this feat.
Abrahamic beliefs . . . not mine.
]I hope you don't think I'm judging your belief system. I was trying to understand your personal take on this matter. I see that you're totally devoted to your beliefs; nevertheless, Jesus is always there, if all else fails, if you have a change of heart.[/b]

Have a good morning, EM.

Not at all, I enjoy a good discussion/debate in regards to everyone's beliefs.

And a Good Day to you too!

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notforgotten

The way I heard the story and probably the same story that has been handed down from generation to generation in my family is simply that Lucifer turned evil and turned 1/3 of the angels in heaven against God. A fight broke out in heaven between the good and bad angels. And the good angels won and the bad angels were cast out of the kingdom of heaven and sent to earth to be evil and wicked demons without God.

Demons are real. I've seen two of them and have been possessed by one twice.

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Jor-el

Mainly because we believe christ came here after his death, to teach the people in america. We also use the book of mormon, which chronicals god's dealings with them. We also believe there at least thirteen prophets on the planet, the church leaders.

But is Christ "the way the truth and the light and no-one will come to the father but through him" the central part of your belief or is it just that he was merely one prophet among many?

If it is you cannot classify yourself as anything but Christian.

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ReaperS_ParadoX

I thought Lucifer was his name when he was in heaven, and it means bringer of Light, but once he fell from heaven he became known as Satan

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Jor-el

I thought Lucifer was his name when he was in heaven, and it means bringer of Light, but once he fell from heaven he became known as Satan

Lucifer is an invented name, it does not exist in the bible it does not exist anywhere except in popular mythology. Just as Satans name in Jewish mythology is Samael.

It isn't in the bible.

If we limit ouselves to the bible then Satan is a description and a name.

Alot of people confuse popular mythology with the bible.

Edited by Jor-el
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ReaperS_ParadoX

Lucifer is an invented name, it does not exist in the bible it does not exist anywhere except in popular mythology. Just as Satans name in Jewish mythology is Samael.

It isn't in the bible.

If we limit ouselves to the bible then Satan is a description and a name.

Alot of people confuse popular mythology with the bible.

Thanks for telling me that, is his name mentioned in the bible?

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Roddy

Lucifer is an invented name, it does not exist in the bible it does not exist anywhere except in popular mythology. Just as Satans name in Jewish mythology is Samael.

It isn't in the bible.

If we limit ouselves to the bible then Satan is a description and a name.

Alot of people confuse popular mythology with the bible.

I'm guessing what you meant to say, Jor-el, is that Lucifer as a name for satan is not in the Bible.

Depending on what translation one uses the word Lucifer is mentioned once :

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

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Jor-el

Thanks for telling me that, is his name mentioned in the bible?

No. The only reference we have to him is the term "Satan" which is used as a personal name but also means "the opposer" or "the antagonist".

Edited by Jor-el

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Jor-el

I'm guessing what you meant to say, Jor-el, is that Lucifer as a name for satan is not in the Bible.

Depending on what translation one uses the word Lucifer is mentioned once :

Isaiah 14:12 - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Yes, and the translation in question is the Latin Vulgate which the translators of the King James Bible misused.

quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes.

What we have here is a transliteration without an actual attempt at translation...

The Hebrew reads "Helel ben sachar" or "Shining one, son of the dawn"

Which is a double entendre, since it is both a reference to a King exalted in his land (Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon) which is what the entire context of the prophecy is literally about, but the reference to "shining one" is a reference also to the shining one of the garden of Eden.

Genesis 3:1-5

1 Now the "the shinning one" was more crafty than any of the living beings the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

2 The woman said to the "the shinning one", "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

[/b]How can something that has never been proven or even evidenced be a Truth?[/size]

Now there's a statement if I've ever heard one . . . how exactly does resurrection dispel ignorance?

And a Good Day to you too!

Hi EM,

Resurrection happened to me, not just NDE. Through the saving grace of Jesus Christ, I was transported out of the Void. I've already shared with you how resurrection has the "enlightening" power to dispel ignorance. I don't expect you to understand it (and I'm not being superior because it has nothing to do with that -- it just is); however, "awakened" people know what I'm talking about because it is the crucial element of "awakening." In a way, you still have a reason to not believe in Jesus Christ. Strange to say: Before the Void incident, Christianity would have been my last choice as a religious path; lo and behold, Jesus was the only God who came to my rescue. I certainly didn't see Shiva, Buddha, Isis, etc. Therefore, it's a no brainer -- I could never bite the hand of my "binitarian monotheistic" God. Come to think of it, since we're having this conversation, in a way, you have gained a first-hand account...

Hold tightly to your Luciferian beliefs. Read the fine details of your holy book(s) and know all the different translations of the verses, especially the part when you become a god. For a human to become a god, something has to die. Before the Void, I thought I was going to become a god...because...my former path was so vocal about it. On the other hand, you "have no intention of 'coming back from the dead.'" From what I have personally gathered, the Void is the final place in which a soul, essence or spirit gets deleted, erased, or "destroyed." It is uncanny, for the Bible has passages that describe all about the Void. The Bible never ceases to awe me.

Well, EM, this is another pleasant discussion. Thank you.

Edited by braveone2u

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Etu Malku

Hi EM

First please allow me to say . . . Thank you, for being respectful of my Beliefs, and firm with your Beliefs.

Intelligent discourse and diatribe is always welcome.

Resurrection happened to me, not just NDE. Through the saving grace of Jesus Christ, I was transported out of the Void.
My first reaction here is to say that you were overwhelmed with Ketamine or DMT, both being drugs that flood the brain upon shut down.
In a way, you still have a reason to not believe in Jesus Christ. Strange to say: Before the Void incident, Christianity would have been my last choice as a religious path; lo and behold, Jesus was the only God who came to my rescue.
Aside of you lying, I would say that you are misinterpreting a psychological phenomenon incorrectly.
I certainly didn't see Shiva, Buddha, Isis, etc. Therefore, it's a no brainer -- I could never bite the hand of my "binitarian monotheistic" God. Come to think of it, since we're having this conversation, in a way, you have gained a first-hand account...
The concept of "Possession" is a complex one but I can simplify it. You don't see an African Lwa possessing a Pagan Druid, you don't see an Egyptian demon possessing a Hindu, needless to say a Sumerian God possessing an Atheist.

Why? Because they are ALL archetypes embedded deeply within our unconsciousness.

]Hold tightly to your Luciferian beliefs. Read the fine details of your holy book(s) and know all the different translations of the verses, especially the part when you become a god. For a human to become a god, something has to die. Before the Void, I thought I was going to become a god...because...my former path was so vocal about it. On the other hand, you "have no intention of 'coming back from the dead.'" From what I have personally gathered, the Void is the final place in which a soul, essence or spirit gets deleted, erased, or "destroyed." It is uncanny, for the Bible has passages that describe all about the Void. The Bible never ceases to awe me.

Well, EM, this is another pleasant discussion. Thank you.[/b]

That would be "unholy" book(s), there is only ONE translation, and that is the in the language of Truth. Nothing needs to die, there is no death, only Transformation, and how you live your life decides this transformation. Don't be foolish and believe in make-believe and metaphors as if they were real.

There is no void, unless you abandon life and self, leave it to something you don't know exists.

I agree . . . the Christian bible ceases to amaze me too :sleepy:

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Yamato

why did satan get kicked out of heaven

Well, Satan was like a really bad guy.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

My first reaction here is to say that you were overwhelmed with Ketamine or DMT, both being drugs that flood the brain upon shut down.

Aside of you lying, I would say that you are misinterpreting a psychological phenomenon incorrectly.

There's no misinterpretation on my part... I don't, however, expect you to believe me because your first-hand knowledge is very important. Plus, I wouldn't gain anything by lying about it. I'm sharing this with you for its own sake and because you're a human being. But then again, you will have you're own take on this matter. We're all going to die one day -- ain't that the truth.

The concept of "Possession" is a complex one but I can simplify it. You don't see an African Lwa possessing a Pagan Druid, you don't see an Egyptian demon possessing a Hindu, needless to say a Sumerian God possessing an Atheist.

Why? Because they are ALL archetypes embedded deeply within our unconsciousness.

Why would Jesus Christ possess me? I was not a Christian at that time. In fact, He was the last God on my list. Actually, I didn't even think about Him; however, I was baptized when I was a baby. Perhaps that was it? That, I don't know. I was actually waiting for Shiva or Poseidon or Lao Tzu to come rushing in to my rescue.

As I have said, hold tightly to your Luciferian beliefs. It seems to me that you already know your "unholy" destiny.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u

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hellig heilige

Hi EM,

Well, EM, this is another pleasant discussion. Thank you.

Why be polite to him? Satan is the enemy!
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danielost

Because, christ said to love thy enemy.

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