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danielost

why did satan get kicked out of heaven

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Zaphod222

To my EXTEMELY layman's knowledge, it is not possible(excepting special, granted, circumstance) to be before God unless "pure in heart"

In questions of pure phantasy about an imaginary world, we are ALL laymen (or experts if you wish). So your imagination is as valid as that of the Pope, or the Dalai Lama, or any Grand old Druid. Or your local sanitation engineer.

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J. K.

The concept of "Possession" is a complex one but I can simplify it. You don't see an African Lwa possessing a Pagan Druid, you don't see an Egyptian demon possessing a Hindu, needless to say a Sumerian God possessing an Atheist.

Why? Because they are ALL archetypes embedded deeply within our unconsciousness.

How did that archetype get embedded? Where did the concept come from? And what is the evolutionary advantage of having such an archetype?

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ellapenella

All this talk here about , Venus ,Lucifer , Satan , or whatever one cares to call it ; and still does anyone understand what virtue and illusion are of???

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and created darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

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Etu Malku

[/size]How did that archetype get embedded? Where did the concept come from? And what is the evolutionary advantage of having such an archetype?

The archetype is embedded through evolution and DNA, the concept is from Modern Psychology, and its evolutionary advantage is that we spiritually evolve by embracing these archetypes and facing the dark aspects of ourselves in that we might become Individuated and live happy productive lives and spiritually evolve.

All this talk here about , Venus ,Lucifer , Satan , or whatever one cares to call it ; and still does anyone understand what virtue and illusion are of???

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and created darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Statement of Satan 1:4

"And after uncounted ages of this great ferment, a force fused to focus that became God, and this force presumed to effect not the creation of substance and energy - for these transcended this God - but the conformation of all the Universe to a single and supreme order. And not yet is this order absolute, though oft it may have been supposed thus by man in his innocence."

Edited by Etu Malku
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ellapenella

Hi Etu Malku ,how are you?

What is that from , that you've shared ? A force fused to focus that became God seems to catch my attention....Can you explain a little more please about this in your own words for me, please? I'd really like to hear more about this.

The confirmation of the Universe , of it all , to a single and supreme order ..is this duality ? The last sentence of mankind and innocence...I'd really like to hear more of that too....It brings my attention to the ancient story of the garden , which , i think has more to it than what is told of in the Bible.

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Etu Malku

Hi Etu Malku ,how are you?

What is that from , that you've shared ? A force fused to focus that became God seems to catch my attention....Can you explain a little more please about this in your own words for me, please? I'd really like to hear more about this.

The confirmation of the Universe , of it all , to a single and supreme order ..is this duality ? The last sentence of mankind and innocence...I'd really like to hear more of that too....It brings my attention to the ancient story of the garden , which , i think has more to it than what is told of in the Bible.

The text is from our "Unholy Bible" The Diabolicon by Saint Michael Aquino

The explanations behind The Diabolicon are complex and I wouldn't even begin to attempt to explain them here.

You would have to join our Church and begin "Bible" studies to get the grasp of it . . . of which you are welcome to join.

934044_10151670856186807_1780798577_n.jpg

Edited by Etu Malku

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spiritualghosthaunting

Edgar wasn't a channeler / medium..

All I'm saying is for you to look at the bigger picture. Believe in Casey's work if you want, but search "Great White Brotherhood" and Edgar Casey. If you're talking about Horus and Jesus Christ that's been debunked. Horus wasn't a virgin birth. You have to go to the source of the Horus story. It's not Egypt.

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Arpee

Well, Satan was like a really bad guy.

"bad" is a subjective word. What is considered to be "bad" - fighting for individual rights and free-choice?

Resurrection happened to me, not just NDE. Through the saving grace of Jesus Christ, I was transported out of the Void. I've already shared with you how resurrection has the "enlightening" power to dispel ignorance. I don't expect you to understand it (and I'm not being superior because it has nothing to do with that -- it just is); however, "awakened" people know what I'm talking about because it is the crucial element of "awakening."

Those who are "awakened" know that they have eternal life. I agree with you there.

The only mistake here is that you are assuming that you would be stuck in this void for eternity and you had to be "saved" from it - which is not true. The void is only scary when one is thinking scary thoughts inside of it.

It is empty, silent, peaceful, dark.

This is The Mind of God. It is from here that God said "Let there be light!". There is nothing "wrong" or "evil" about it; and yes, IT is eternal but you being in there (or any other being in there) would not be eternal ; although sometimes some beings BELIEVE that it is eternal and end up being trapped in there for long periods of time.

If you are still scared of the void, I suggest you do void meditation and bring the darkness (fear) into the light (courage).

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

Those who are "awakened" know that they have eternal life. I agree with you there.

The only mistake here is that you are assuming that you would be stuck in this void for eternity and you had to be "saved" from it - which is not true. The void is only scary when one is thinking scary thoughts inside of it.

Hi Arpee,

I didn't say that "those who are 'awakened' know that they have eternal life." Other "awakened" human beings think they are automatically eternal (so yes, you have the right to assume that), but that's not the way I grasped it while I was in the Void. I also didn't say that "you would be stuck in this void for eternity." The Void is the place of destruction, deletion of one's "awareness" or essence.

Peace.

Peace.

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Arpee

The Void is the place of destruction, deletion of one's "awareness" or essence.

Peace.

Not really. you were "AWARE" fo the void, weren't you? You obviously were aware of emotions if you felt like you were "done" and needed to be "saved".

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

Not really. you were "AWARE" fo the void, weren't you? You obviously were aware of emotions if you felt like you were "done" and needed to be "saved".

What did you mean about "Not really"? Yes, my "awareness" was intact inside the Void (after I died, as in physical death). Emotions? Like I said, my "awareness" was intact. Destruction of one's essence or soul or "awareness" doesn't come all of sudden, at least it didn't happen to me. Perhaps I wasn't meant to be destroyed? Perhaps I was meant to experience the Void to tell people about it? Jesus Christ never said a word to me. I didn't even see His face because it was obscured by a golden radiance. A mystic told me that perhaps my essence was implanted with knowledge, like a computer data. That, I don't know. I was, however, extremely glad to be out of there. Edited by braveone2u

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Arpee

Perhaps I wasn't meant to be destroyed? Perhaps I was meant to experience the Void to tell people about it?

Assumptions. You are assuming that people don't already know about the void and you are "meant" to share this as if it is someting unknown to most. You are also assuming that The Void is to destroy souls meanwhile when it didn't happen to you , you just believe you aren't destroyed because you weren't "meant" to be.

By the way, yes. I am aware that Jesus has a Golden Radience.

I really do think you should look deeper though. That is just my suggestion.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

Assumptions. You are assuming that people don't already know about the void and you are "meant" to share this as if it is someting unknown to most. You are also assuming that The Void is to destroy souls meanwhile when it didn't happen to you , you just believe you aren't destroyed because you weren't "meant" to be.

By the way, yes. I am aware that Jesus has a Golden Radience.

I really do think you should look deeper though. That is just my suggestion.

How did you come up with that conclusion? Where is that in my sentence? It's been in the Bible for centuries. Have you read the entire thread? I've already given a couple of examples.

"I really do think you should look deeper though." Are you talking about meditation to be able to access the Void? I didn't access the Void via meditation. Since you are "aware that Jesus has a Golden Radience" I suppose you've seen Him, is this so?

Edited by braveone2u

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Arpee

How did you come up with that conclusion? Where is that in my sentence? It's been in the Bible for centuries. Have you read the entire thread? I've already given a couple of examples.

I learned through experience and by hearing other's experiences. You didn't say it in your "sentence" directly, but you were hinting that maybe you were "meant" to tell people about it, and maybe you were "meant" to not be destroyed in there.

"I really do think you should look deeper though." Are you talking about meditation to be able to access the Void? I didn't access the Void via meditation.

That is one way - yes. It's about getting your consciousness to leave your body in order to explore different areas of existence.

I have to admit, after I tried to go to the void to experience what was "over there". I woke up with my body cold (in the summer) and it wasn't like a dream or anything - just darkness. Reminds me of those times where I wake up and say "I didn't dream"; but I know I DID experience something and that was darkness, non-judgment, emptiness, silence, etc.

Since you are "aware that Jesus has a Golden Radience" I suppose you've seen Him, is this so?

Correct.

I also saw Lucifer and Azazel and I did NOT have a negative experience with them. In fact, when I was out of body - Azazel protected me from negative entities and gave me energy.

We all have different experiences...

In such experiences when people are attacked, some are saved by "Jesus", some by "Buddha" or wahtever being will choose to come to their rescue. Jesus doesn't help everybody (obviously)...

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

I learned through experience and by hearing other's experiences. You didn't say it in your "sentence" directly, but you were hinting that maybe you were "meant" to tell people about it, and maybe you were "meant" to not be destroyed in there.

That is one way - yes. It's about getting your consciousness to leave your body in order to explore different areas of existence.

I have to admit, after I tried to go to the void to experience what was "over there". I woke up with my body cold (in the summer) and it wasn't like a dream or anything - just darkness. Reminds me of those times where I wake up and say "I didn't dream"; but I know I DID experience something and that was darkness, non-judgment, emptiness, silence, etc.

Correct.

I also saw Lucifer and Azazel and I did NOT have a negative experience with them. In fact, when I was out of body - Azazel protected me from negative entities and gave me energy.

We all have different experiences...

In such experiences when people are attacked, some are saved by "Jesus", some by "Buddha" or wahtever being will choose to come to their rescue. Jesus doesn't help everybody (obviously)...

Hi Arpee,

Thank you for clarifying and sharing your experiences. markprice also had a Void-like experience. By the way, how did you know that it was Azazel? What's your take on Jesus? How did he seem to you? What happened after you came back from your experience?

Did you have a conversation with Lucifer? Did the being say that he's Lucifer, not Satan?

Peace.

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Arpee

By the way, how did you know that it was Azazel?

This is the name he gave me. I had to do some research on the internet and I was surprised that some said such negative things about him. He is more of an angry entity but very protective.

What's your take on Jesus? How did he seem to you?

Jesus seems to embody the energy of Enlightenment (Golden). I refer to the Golden Energy as "Christ Energy" now. I don't think many beings at all carry this energy because it is really balanced - which may explain why Jesus seemed so peaceful, but the energy is also protective/compassionate.

There is much truth that Jesus teaches if a person wants unification with God (rather than separation):

"God is Light" (1 John 1:5-10)

"Be a light unto the world". (Matthew 5:14-15)

"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." (1 John 4:16)

"Pray saying OUR father thou art in heaven". (Matthew 6:9-13)

Jesus said "Is it NOT written that I have said you are gods?". "All of you are Gods CHILDREN of The Most High) (John 10:34 Psalm 82:6)

Jesus was trying to use Bible Verses from The Old Testament in order to help people to understand the message that he was teaching, but even though "you are Gods, you are all Children of The Most High" (Psalm 82:6) is written in the bible, most called it blasphemous for Jesus to use this verse to say that he is God. The Pharasees wanted to kill him for claiming to be a god.

The BIG difference between what Lucifer is saying and what Jesus is saying is this:

Lucifer is saying that we are our OWN Gods. Lucifer is teaching that we are separate gods, individuals.

Jesus is saying that we are a PART of God. When we live in Love we embody God ("lives in God and God in them").

So this is the type of conversation I had with Jesus. He wanted to increase my consciousness to realize being a part of God. Living in love and seeing all as a part of myself (love neighbour as thyself).

(This conversation didn't feel "Biblical" though and then I realized these Bible Verses).

What happened after you came back from your experience?

My heart opened up. You can call it "the heart chakra" or "the heart center". It was like energy in the middle of my chest and I felt like it was that Golden Light. Compassion was INTENSE. I either went from "compassionate passion" or "relaxed peacefulness". I didn't feel ANY negative emotion for a while. That passion of compassion felt orgasmic like sex and lust wasn't needed at that time just that pure love feel amazing, but eventually my heart closed a little bit more (It needed to happen so I can stay balanced in this world or I'd probably get depressed quick).

Did you have a conversation with Lucifer? Did the being say that he's Lucifer, not Satan?

Peace.

Yes, he called himself Lucifer. He looked differently than what most would suspect. Not a red guy with horns. He is very open-minded (like Jesus) BUT Jesus is more calm and compassionate while Lucifer is more action based and stresses the importance of will power.

I was being attacked by negative entities. Yes! These beings were NOT of Jesus OR Lucifer. They were something else - random harmful spirits. Azazel helped to get them away from me and Lucifer taught me a meditation technique to which was supposed to aid in self-expression AND protection against these beings (it worked somewhat...)

This is the way I've come to see things:

Lucifer sees Jesus as not being action-based enough and being too "stuck" with "God". To Lucifer this is bad because Lucifer strongly believes in learning and individuality. Being one with "God" is understanding connection with Self, Others, Nature, and The Essence of Love which creates and holds things together (It is true that "God is Love").

Jesus sees Lucifer as not being wise. Jesus has this feeling that if people would just understand that they are connected with God then they'll be guided in the right ways - they'd love neighbours and enemies as themselves. They'd know that they are children of God directly connected to and the prayer "OUR father thou art in heaven" would remind them of this. They'd keep in my that God dwells in the open heart of man (acceptance/love) - because we were designed to be connected but now for some reason a closed-heart seems more common.

Lucifer has already accepted that everything is made of energy but I am not sure how far he would want to go.

I think there is important information to learn from all sides.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

"God is Light" (1 John 1:5-10)

"Be a light unto the world". (Matthew 5:14-15)

"God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them." (1 John 4:16)

Jesus said "Is it NOT written that I have said you are gods?". "All of you are Gods CHILDREN of The Most High) (John 10:34 Psalm 82:6)

The BIG difference between what Lucifer is saying and what Jesus is saying is this:

Lucifer is saying that we are our OWN Gods. Lucifer is teaching that we are separate gods, individuals.

Jesus is saying that we are a PART of God. When we live in Love we embody God ("lives in God and God in them").

So this is the type of conversation I had with Jesus. He wanted to increase my consciousness to realize being a part of God. Living in love and seeing all as a part of myself (love neighbour as thyself).

(This conversation didn't feel "Biblical" though and then I realized these Bible Verses).

My heart opened up. You can call it "the heart chakra" or "the heart center". It was like energy in the middle of my chest and I felt like it was that Golden Light. Compassion was INTENSE. I either went from "compassionate passion" or "relaxed peacefulness". I didn't feel ANY negative emotion for a while. That passion of compassion felt orgasmic like sex and lust wasn't needed at that time just that pure love feel amazing, but eventually my heart closed a little bit more (It needed to happen so I can stay balanced in this world or I'd probably get depressed quick).

Yes, he called himself Lucifer. He looked differently than what most would suspect. Not a red guy with horns. He is very open-minded (like Jesus) BUT Jesus is more calm and compassionate while Lucifer is more action based and stresses the importance of will power.

I was being attacked by negative entities. Yes! These beings were NOT of Jesus OR Lucifer. They were something else - random harmful spirits. Azazel helped to get them away from me and Lucifer taught me a meditation technique to which was supposed to aid in self-expression AND protection against these beings (it worked somewhat...)

This is the way I've come to see things:

Lucifer sees Jesus as not being action-based enough and being too "stuck" with "God". To Lucifer this is bad because Lucifer strongly believes in learning and individuality. Being one with "God" is understanding connection with Self, Others, Nature, and The Essence of Love which creates and holds things together (It is true that "God is Love").

Jesus sees Lucifer as not being wise. Jesus has this feeling that if people would just understand that they are connected with God then they'll be guided in the right ways - they'd love neighbours and enemies as themselves. They'd know that they are children of God directly connected to and the prayer "OUR father thou art in heaven" would remind them of this. They'd keep in my that God dwells in the open heart of man (acceptance/love) - because we were designed to be connected but now for some reason a closed-heart seems more common.

Lucifer has already accepted that everything is made of energy but I am not sure how far he would want to go.

I think there is important information to learn from all sides.

Hi Arpee,

I could actually write a book for my reply to your post. At any rate, we become a "light" in the world when we become righteous and share the gospel of Jesus Christ, for He is the "light of the world." The "light" has another meaning. It means eternal life through Jesus Christ. We are not automatically eternal...

1 John 4:16 is about the love of God inside us because we show our love to our fellow human being. It's not about us being a separate divinity. God is the only "uncreated" reality, and it's the reason why God is the only "good" Being.

Again, John 10:34 and Psalm 82:6 are not about us being divine. Please read the entire chapters (and other chapters for that matter), not just a sentence or two or an entire verse to make sense of them.

At any rate, it sounds to me that you had an intense meditation, enough to open up your heart -- that's great! Also, it would be unfair of me if I were to compare my collective death experience with your situation, for they are completely dissimilar. I must, however, agree with Jor-el regarding Lucifer since I am a "born again" Christian. This doesn't mean that your profound-and-unique-to-you meditative experience is invalid. This thread is not about judging. It's about sharing our deeper selves to understand the fall of Satan...and man. You have expressed your Self quite well, Arpee. Thank you.

Peace to you.

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and created darkness; I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Hi Reann,

Isaiah 45:7 is truth because God created Satan, the embodiment of "evil," but Satan wasn't always "evil."

Peace.

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markprice

that was when archduke ferdindinand died, wars broke out over that, Thats just what iv been taught

You were also taught that angels are not immortal (that was you or you agreed with it?). Where did you learn that?

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Arpee

At any rate, it sounds to me that you had an intense meditation, enough to open up your heart -- that's great! Also, it would be unfair of me if I were to compare my collective death experience with your situation, for they are completely dissimilar. I must, however, agree with Jor-el regarding Lucifer since I am a "born again" Christian. This doesn't mean that your profound-and-unique-to-you meditative experience is invalid. This thread is not about judging. It's about sharing our deeper selves to understand the fall of Satan...and man. You have expressed your Self quite well, Arpee. Thank you.

Peace to you.

Thank you for being open-minded to at least listen to my experience and point of view. I'm not trying to invalidate your experience either. I believe that your experience happened as well.

I'm just not so sure about your *interpretation* of what that experience MEANS, just as you are not so sure about mine interpretation of my experience.

It was very interesting to here your side.

Hopefully there will be others posting here who had direct experiences like us. Those will be really interesting to hear and we can see if there's any similiarities.

Edited by Arpee

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ellapenella

Hi Reann,

Isaiah 45:7 is truth because God created Satan, the embodiment of "evil," but Satan wasn't always "evil."

Peace.

I don't know. I take the bible in a different sense than it being an actual being that was created. I think that we create effect by our own free will and emotions of what our desires are , some may be selfish desires and some may be selfless desires.

There's a place in the bible where Christ says that , a time will come and peace will be in the world, the metaphor goes on and speaks about "satan ' being in chains or something , held down in the abyss for one thousands years.It continues to speak of peace on the earth with everyone for a short while,and that Christ will be on the earth too during this time , and still people will turn on Christ , their hearts will not follow Love and they will continue to cause harm.

The metaphor continues as Yeshua explained that people will have no one to blame because people blamed "satan" for evil in the world , but that they will see it is man himself and not "satan".

I don't know, I see Christ messages and teachings in a more metaphorical and metaphysical way than a literal way of actually taking his message as literal beings such as " satan ' and all.

In my perspective he's saying to people that it is and always was mankind that caused things, not some being "satan" that really doesn't exist. In my understanding of the word satan it's an obstacle, and the obstacle seems to me , to be of our own emotions and lack of faith in our selves , maybe because the world doesn't always feel loving .I don't know? But what if it did ? Would we then have evolved more so?

If we are created in the image of God , what does that image represent to you? To me it means the essence of our existence with the universe is our connection with the creator of life itself and that we've always had the ability to create a much loving world by believing in our selves, knowing that we are all connected to a higher power.

We can communicate and cause effects on levels that most of us don't really understand , because we were not taught to understand our selves on a deeper level of our existence. We've been indoctrinated throughout history to not recognize that we posses within us greatness,an ability to create change .This to me was the main purpose of Christ message , he seemed to have always hint at that .

Where a weak head doubts concerning any word of Christ, an upright heart and a willing mind seek for instruction. It is the heart that is desperately wicked, Jer 17:9, for there is no sin in word or deed, which was not first in the heart. They all come out of the man, and are fruits of that wickedness which is in the heart, and is wrought there. When Christ teaches, he will show men the deceitfulness and wickedness of their own hearts; he will teach them to humble themselves, and to seek to be cleansed in the Fountain opened for sin and uncleanness.

^

The last paragraph I have put there is from a commentary on Matthew 15 from Matthew Henry. clearrectangle.gif

http://mhc.biblecommenter.com/matthew/15.htm

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ellapenella

The text is from our "Unholy Bible" The Diabolicon by Saint Michael Aquino

The explanations behind The Diabolicon are complex and I wouldn't even begin to attempt to explain them here.

You would have to join our Church and begin "Bible" studies to get the grasp of it . . . of which you are welcome to join.

934044_10151670856186807_1780798577_n.jpg

Thank you for the invite but I don't have any desire to turn my heart from Christ, I Love and believe in his teachings above all teachings of any man. .

I have to say though , i can find the answer to what i asked about ,easily. Just wanted to hear from your own heart on that subject.

As for anything i know from any teachings of Christ nothing is ever hidden, so if there's anything you ever have a question about , just ask .

Have you any idea of why the founder of the church of satan cried on his death bed that he was wrong ? It seemed that as he was dieing , just before his death he became really frightened at something .He seemed to have been remorseful "as he cried" 'oh no , what have I done' " he seemed scared". My Savior Christ didn't fear death like that guy did.

I don't know , made me reflect on when someone i knew that was about to cross over seen someone from the other side and was at peace in her crossing , as though an angel of God was there to great her or love ones or something , anyway , was complete opposite of that guy.

What do you think he was crying about?

Edited by Reann

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Arpee

Have you any idea of why the founder of the church of satan cried on his death bed that he was wrong ? It seemed that as he was dieing , just before his death he became really frightened at something .He seemed to have been remorseful "as he cried" 'oh no , what have I done' " he seemed scared". My Savior Christ didn't fear death like that guy did.

How do you know what he was saying on his death bed, were you there? Are there any recordings?

Let me guess, some Christians said this happened and this is supposed to be a reason to give your soul to Jesus?

By the way, there is a Satanist who had a Near Death Experience and after that... guess who he turned to? LUCIFER.

People talk about calling on "Jesus's " name to be protected from evil spirits but did you know you can also call on Lucifer or even The Mother Goddess?

Christianity is the popular religion so they get all of the publicity....

Edited by Arpee

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Etu Malku
Have you any idea of why the founder of the church of satan cried on his death bed that he was wrong ? It seemed that as he was dieing , just before his death he became really frightened at something .He seemed to have been remorseful "as he cried" 'oh no , what have I done' " he seemed scared". My Savior Christ didn't fear death like that guy did.

I don't know , made me reflect on when someone i knew that was about to cross over seen someone from the other side and was at peace in her crossing , as though an angel of God was there to great her or love ones or something , anyway , was complete opposite of that guy.

What do you think he was crying about?

Urban Legend, I know people who were at his bedside when he passed away and they say this story is untrue . . . more lies created by Christians out of hate. Edited by Etu Malku

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Marcion Meets E. Sibyl

I don't know. I take the bible in a different sense than it being an actual being that was created.

I don't know, I see Christ messages and teachings in a more metaphorical and metaphysical way than a literal way of actually taking his message as literal beings such as " satan ' and all.

In my perspective he's saying to people that it is and always was mankind that caused things, not some being "satan" that really doesn't exist.

Hi Reann,

You have the right to believe that Satan doesn't exist. I, on the other hand, adhere (not just believe) in the literal and the metaphysical realities of the "evil" Devil, not just because it's part of the Christian doctrine.

If we are created in the image of God , what does that image represent to you?

Here's an excellent link to check out:

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/UFOReligions/Image%20of%20God%20A%20phrase%20found%20several%20times%20in%20the%20book%20of%20Genesis.pdf

God bless.

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