Fluoridating our Drinking Water

[Arbenol]

so you have good teeth, it is ok for the three year old child to die from the fluoride in the water.

Has this happened?

Is there any data on children (or anyone, for that matter) dying because of flouride being added to water?

Edited December 28, 2014 by Arbenol

[Iron_Lotus]

Correct again but pollution also goes into the food you eat through rainwater and soil,so no matter what ya do you get it one way or another...

and i have been eating said food for 26 years with no health concerns and will continue to eat the same food i have been for as long as i live. i reaaaalllly don't care as much as you seem to think i do lol. no major health concerns no heart problems nothing never had stomach and digestive issues. im doing perfectly fine doing what im doing and i don't plan on changing.

[CrimsonKing]

and i have been eating said food for 26 years with no health concerns and will continue to eat the same food i have been for as long as i live. i reaaaalllly don't care as much as you seem to think i do lol. no major health concerns no heart problems nothing never had stomach and digestive issues. im doing perfectly fine doing what im doing and i don't plan on changing.

Thats good to hear man,hope you have a long healthy life!

I really dont give a damn what you put into your body,or what you think is best for anyone elses to be honest.

[Iron_Lotus]

Has this happened?

Is there any data on children (or anyone, for that matter) dying because of flouride being added to water?

i did a quick search a few were fluoride TABLET poisonings, and a dentist trip for a young child in 1974 who was given a lethal dose of fluoride and left to sit in a waiting room for 5 hours, great dentist he was... nothing about consuming fluoridated water causing death, but i can't be btohered anymore it's 330am

[ChrLzs]

Yes we cant control everything,but its nice to have options on what we can and cannot put in our bodies.

I agree to an extent.. But then your and my taxes pay for a lot of the medical and dental costs, and I would most certainly not be happy to pay for your dentures just because you read a dumass website and chose to avoid fluoride... If you were testing yourself for trace elements and making a proper decision, then fair enough, but of course that isn't reality.

You and I live in a society and hopefully most of the decisions like whether to filter / chlorinate / fluoridate your water (would you rather have it raw from the reservoir?) are made with a view towards the science of good health.. Do gubmints always get it right? Nope, of course not, but are they killing more people than they are helping/saving with Fluoridation? Nope.

BTW, you may be surprised to hear that I agree that some places in Oz and probably elsewhere have fluoridation that do not really require it - but that's a rather different slant than that pushed by the alfoil brigade...

And should we rely on common sense and allow people to choose everything? It is very clear from the crazy anti-vaxers (who in my city alone have been directly responsible for some ridiculous disease outbreaks over the last ten years, one of which has personally affected a very close friend in a horrible way), that it only takes a few scaremongers to ensure that the gullible make bad decisions that can very badly affect or even kill others. That isn't people exercising their freedoms, that is people being bloody minded and completely and ignorantly irresponsible.

[CrimsonKing]

Thats a good overall explanation Chrlzs,i feel much the same way on most of that post...Please dont wake the anti-vaxers

[SHaYap]

Spend a few weeks away from city treated water ... somewhere as wilderness as you can find ~ then go back and taste the water before anything else ~

I need a week at least to ease myself back ... even after all these years ~

[ChrLzs]

Spend a few weeks away from city treated water ... somewhere as wilderness as you can find ~ then go back and taste the water before anything else ~

I need a week at least to ease myself back ... even after all these years ~

?? Surely that has to depend on the city/region? I used to live in Adelaide, which has notoriously 'hard' water - loads of dissolved minerals, often less than clear and tastes pretty awful.

Melbourne has great quality 'soft' water, and Brisbane water seems excellent to me, I can't pick it from bottled. Interestingly, I have also done taste tests with very pure (RO/distilled/demineralised) water, and you can tell the difference *then*.. But truly pure water is actually bad for you!

Don't believe me? Look it up. Your water does need to have a small mineral content, or you're likely to get sick. In small amounts, pure water is ok, but if you drink a lot of water it needs to have some mineral content or it will 'leach' minerals out of your system.

[SHaYap]

?? Surely that has to depend on the city/region? I used to live in Adelaide, which has notoriously 'hard' water - loads of dissolved minerals, often less than clear and tastes pretty awful.

Melbourne has great quality 'soft' water, and Brisbane water seems excellent to me, I can't pick it from bottled. Interestingly, I have also done taste tests with very pure (RO/distilled/demineralised) water, and you can tell the difference *then*.. But truly pure water is actually bad for you!

Don't believe me? Look it up. Your water does need to have a small mineral content, or you're likely to get sick. In small amounts, pure water is ok, but if you drink a lot of water it needs to have some mineral content or it will 'leach' minerals out of your system.

Relax dude ... I am not gonna be protesting at Treatment Plants or organizing Free the people Marches here ~ not suggesting you go into the wild and start digging for water either ~ just go to those Eco resorts ~ they knows best and have taken care of it all for you ~ you just go there and relax ...

I go off to the islands as much as half a year here and then , I know precisely what I am on about here , visitors finds themselves pleasantly surprised just by the taste of naturally clean clear water ~ some even doesn't believe its natural spring water ... used by the locals for hundreds of years ... I am also constantly surprised by the excellent enamel on their set of sparkly whites that the islanders have ~ though many have adapted to the convenience of tooth paste its not the primary use as its expensive for the locals have been using the 'sugi' sticks or paste for ages ~

• Sugi / Siwak - mission in islam link
  
• African / Jamaican Chewstick - Black Herbals link
  

... that and plus their diet consists of very little of the junk only available in town ~

I don't even see them drink or eat much diary produce too come to think of it ~

I am not saying everybody should jump up and down and start doing this and stop doing that , what I am saying is that the alternatives are not as without relevance as it is portrayed by this modern claims for flouride , and most often times quite unfairly too I must add ~

~

[Yamato]

For heaven's sake, Yamato LOOK at your own document and see which 25 countries have 'endemic' fluorosis problems... Are THOSE COUNTRIES the ones that are adding fluoride to their water??? I can see only two - my own and New Zealand, and in both cases I will guarantee that fluorosis problems are simply not comparable in any way to the huge benefits that come from fluoridation - indeed, I can show you plenty of research that suggest fluorosis is very rare in Oz, and is only a problem in some regional/remote areas where there is NO fluoridation anyway.

Do go and have a look for yourself - what are the figures for fluorosis in Australia, and where do they occur?

In summary, does that document IN ANY WAY suggest that fluoridation of water, done in regions that have low natural fluoride levels in the water/environment, is a bad thing? Isn't THAT the question?

That's a question. I don't think we have to choose only one question.

For heaven's sake I haven't said a word about which countries are what.

Whether there is fluoridation in these other areas, there's good data there. You're having a severe overreaction sir, I don't even have an opinion when it comes to the danger of fluoridating our water. It depends on how much fluoride is in it, how much we drink, what else we're exposed to, and whether or not we're willing to study it

I've never seen you before in my time here. I'm Yamato it's nice to meet you. Perhaps some social studies with our chemistry.

You're complaining about trivia in #89 I've already covered in prior replies sir. I think your emotions have clogged your reason. So tell me, since you think I'm so biased or whatever the problem, what are my conclusions about fluoridating our drinking water?

[ChrLzs]

That's a question. I don't think we have to choose only one question.

Well. most threads are about a single question.. That's sorta why we have individual threads...

For heaven's sake I haven't said a word about which countries are what.

But you said this..

.. so we need to be careful that a rush to known benefits didn't cause us to ignore the potential dangers and risks..

immediately followed by quoting a site saying:

According to UNICEF, fluorosis is endemic in at least 25 countries. The number of people suffering from skeletal fluorosis globally is thought to be in the tens of millions. WHO estimates that 2.7 million people in China have the crippling form of the disease.

followed by this:

If Skeletal Fluorosis is endemic in 25 countries, how'd that happen and how much did they ingest?

So, now, after all that, you don't think it is worthy of proper analysis and discussion of which countries and what were the actual details?

Words almost fail me - could you possibly be any more self-contradictory? Good Grief, read your own posts, please.

Whether there is fluoridation in these other areas, there's good data there.

Which should be considered properly and in context, rather than doing the Chicken Little thing... Do you not agree?

You're having a severe overreaction sir, I don't even have an opinion when it comes to the danger of fluoridating our water.

Well, keep asking questions then, but don't get surprised when people answer you or pull you up on very basic things like chemistry. Your comments about Flourine and Fluoride are WAY off the mark. If you think correcting them is an overreaction, then wear that with pride..

It depends on how much fluoride is in it, how much we drink, what else we're exposed to, and whether or not we're willing to study it

So why are you whining when I help to show you HOW to properly study it? Look back at the wording of your question, for sanity's sake...

[Yamato]

?? Surely that has to depend on the city/region? I used to live in Adelaide, which has notoriously 'hard' water - loads of dissolved minerals, often less than clear and tastes pretty awful.

Melbourne has great quality 'soft' water, and Brisbane water seems excellent to me, I can't pick it from bottled. Interestingly, I have also done taste tests with very pure (RO/distilled/demineralised) water, and you can tell the difference *then*.. But truly pure water is actually bad for you!

Don't believe me? Look it up. Your water does need to have a small mineral content, or you're likely to get sick. In small amounts, pure water is ok, but if you drink a lot of water it needs to have some mineral content or it will 'leach' minerals out of your system.

I believe you.

So why are you whining when I help to show you HOW to properly study it? Look back at the wording of your question, for sanity's sake...

I'm afraid you're whining about the wording of my question while I'm not whining about anything, I'm just asking questions.

So, now, after all that, you don't think it is worthy of proper analysis and discussion of which countries and what were the actual details?

The details yes. For heaven's sake we must remember the details! Proper and actual, yes, yes.

The rest of your reply looks relatively pointless to respond to, so I'm going to go enjoy a big glass of tap water for you right now. Cheers

[Yamato]

I agree to an extent.. But then your and my taxes pay for a lot of the medical and dental costs, and I would most certainly not be happy to pay for your dentures just because you read a dumass website and chose to avoid fluoride... If you were testing yourself for trace elements and making a proper decision, then fair enough, but of course that isn't reality.

You and I live in a society and hopefully most of the decisions like whether to filter / chlorinate / fluoridate your water (would you rather have it raw from the reservoir?) are made with a view towards the science of good health.. Do gubmints always get it right? Nope, of course not, but are they killing more people than they are helping/saving with Fluoridation? Nope.

BTW, you may be surprised to hear that I agree that some places in Oz and probably elsewhere have fluoridation that do not really require it - but that's a rather different slant than that pushed by the alfoil brigade...

And should we rely on common sense and allow people to choose everything? It is very clear from the crazy anti-vaxers (who in my city alone have been directly responsible for some ridiculous disease outbreaks over the last ten years, one of which has personally affected a very close friend in a horrible way), that it only takes a few scaremongers to ensure that the gullible make bad decisions that can very badly affect or even kill others. That isn't people exercising their freedoms, that is people being bloody minded and completely and ignorantly irresponsible.

It's like I said pages before you showed up, fluoridating our drinking water was a groundbreaking advance in dental hygiene. Not exactly sure why going from there to asking questions about health problems from fluoride caused such an outbreak but the last thing I'm interested in doing is floating another conspiracy theory over this.

Let's get back to the freedom and information part then. How many ppm is the fluoride in your water?

[danielost]

NO-ONE died from fluorosis in Australia which is where I was making the comparison, so stop making crap up and trying to mislead this forum. All you are showing is your ignorance and unwillingness to get off your butt and actually do some real research. If you want us to talk about statistics, then roll them out, Daniel.

But I'd strongly suggest you do some homework FIRST, or this will get even worse for you.

Let's be specific about my country - in the 6 year period from 1998 to 2004 there were 3 (yes, THREE) cases of skeletal fluorosis recorded in Australia (PDF cite - refer p17). 3 cases in 6 years in a population of ~20 million, NONE were fatal, and as far as I can see (very happy to be corrected, but only by genuine reports) there is NO suggestion that any of them were related to water fluoridation.

Daniel, this is getting embarrassing. The stuff you are posting is just too ridiculous for serious consideration.

And may I suggest you do a little research on how many folks die, or have dramatically shortened lifespans, from complications directly related to dental disease, and the immense costs of that - if we had dental caries at the same rate as it was before fluoridation, medical costs would probably have to double or triple... So YES is the correct answer to your silly question, anyway.

And do CITE any particular cases you want us to examine, Daniel. I'm getting mighty sick of your handwaving and you have misled this forum many times in the past.

true i was using worse case possibility. but that doesn't mean people aren't getting sick from the fluoride, just so you can have good teeth with out working for it. i don't want to brush my teeth so it is ok if someone else gets sick.

[preacherman76]

Sir was only 90% correct? He's been slipping lately. I wonder how much of that F water Malcolm Young's been drinking

Hard to filter it with filtration on the market today. Maybe I should start drinking more bottled water. But if they're going to add salts for taste or pH balance, at least get the salts in proportion. Calcium, Magnesium and Potassium would do better in a 1:1:1 ratio than all of one and none of the others. It sounds ridiculous that bottled water could make someone constipated for example, but it all goes back to what crap they're putting in it.

So says the guy whose selfies are always dragging on cigarettes. Maybe you are more courageous.

Berky(sp?) makes a great filter that takes out the floride. Its at the top of my list for things to get this year.

I don't know who makes it but there is another system that pulls the water right outta the air. Unless you live in a desert, this thing can pull up to 5 gallons of clean water outta the air per day.

[Yamato]

Berky(sp?) makes a great filter that takes out the floride. Its at the top of my list for things to get this year.

I don't know who makes it but there is another system that pulls the water right outta the air. Unless you live in a desert, this thing can pull up to 5 gallons of clean water outta the air per day.

We're changing our dehumidifier's water out far more often than we want to, and it's set on low in the basement. I believe you, we're getting almost 2-gallons a day on it's lowest setting. If it ran full time I think we'd get in the neighborhood of 4-5 gallons. I'm not drinking the water out of the air though...but I could.

[ChrLzs]

A quick note - if you are simply condensing water out of the air via dehumidifier / air-con, it will contain all the dissolved pollutants it has picked up on the way to that location, possibly with some added from the condenser coils, along with bacteria etc.. It will most certainly NOT be pure water unless the system has all the necessary filters. And filtering out dissolved substances is quite difficult to do properly. Be careful with what you think might be 'clean' water... {ironic grin}

[TheDarkerSide]

Not all medications work the same for all people, not all diets are suitable for all people, not all living conditions are suitable for all people. The list is endless. It's about trying to do the right thing for as MANY people.

[TheDarkerSide]

so you have good teeth, it is ok for the three year old child to die from the fluoride in the water.

Is it ok that many many more could have died from cavities which can lead to abscess, which in turn leads to septicaemia. Then a horrid death?

[Yamato]

Be careful with what you think might be 'clean' water... {ironic grin}

Of course it's an ironic grin when we'd rather everyone not ask any questions and not "be careful".

This has nothing to do with the Al-Foil Brigade, conspiracy theories or the other posters we don't seem to like very much. We should all know what's in the water we're drinking and why; and be free enough to choose whatever smart or dumb decision we make afterwards, but at least we know better. I think when people know better, more people not less make better decisions not worse.

If nothing else, this issue boils down to choice, so this discussion about drinking water is already including the alternatives, thanks to preacherman76 for bringing one up. In all things (libertarian's utopia), people should have a choice. I can choose which websites I visit and what car I drive, I should be able to control what I put in my body especially if I'm the one paying for it.

What I can say about water condensate is that it isn't fluoridated, a meaningful difference, and yet it may or may not be healthier than whatever unestablished hypothetical fluoridated drinking water it is that we can apparently draw our sweeping conclusions from.

[danielost]

Is it ok that many many more could have died from cavities which can lead to abscess, which in turn leads to septicaemia. Then a horrid death?

i will keep my bad teeth, instead of possible harming someone else. my life is no more important than anyone else.

[ChrLzs]

What I can say about water condensate is that it isn't fluoridated, a meaningful difference, and yet it may or may not be healthier than whatever unestablished hypothetical fluoridated drinking water it is that we can apparently draw our sweeping conclusions from.

Seriously??? Condensate WILL contain dissolved solids!! LOOK IT UP.. Condensate is NOT distilled water!!!!!

And Fluoride is VERY common in the environment and dissolves into water - that's WHY many of those 25 countries you didn't want to look at properly have people with excess fluoride.

If you are drinking condensate, you are taking large risks unless it is properly processed/filtered.

Please read this article and THINK about it. I quote (my emphasis):

Just as a cold drink collects condensation from the surrounding air, most dehumidifiers use cold metal tubes to turn water vapor from a gas to liquid water. This "condensate" then collects in a bucket or drains out through a hose. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, stagnant condensate can harbor biological contaminants, including mold, mildew and algae, especially if the collection bucket isn't cleaned regularly. Moreover, the condensate can contain lead and other metal residues from the component parts of the dehumidifier. Unlike distilled water .. dehumidifier water is never sterilized through boiling. In case you were still entertaining the thought, let me make it clear: do not drink the condensate! It is better to be thirsty than to be sick.

If that doesn't get through, I give up - it's like talking to a brick wall. Go drink your condensate and then, afterwards, have it analysed by a lab...

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChrLzs

[Yamato]

i will keep my bad teeth, instead of possible harming someone else. my life is no more important than anyone else.

I was at my dentist one day when I was a kid, and we were both being thankful that I had no cavities that checkup, I had still never had a single cavity yet and I remembered the stories my mom used to say about how she went to the dentist when she was my age and had so many cavities filled. I remember asking him if I was that much better at brushing my teeth than my mom was. He laughed and replied that no, it's the fluoride in the water.

Bottled water was an 11.8 billion dollar industry in 2012, with strong growth prospects for the future. We don't want to wind up being unpaid salespeople for their products, and yet it still begs the question, if tap water is so great what's wrong with it?

[Yamato]

Seriously??? Condensate WILL contain dissolved solids!! LOOK IT UP.. Condensate is NOT distilled water!!!!!

And Fluoride is VERY common in the environment and dissolves into water - that's WHY many of those 25 countries you didn't want to look at properly have people with excess fluoride.

If you are drinking condensate, you are taking large risks unless it is properly processed/filtered.

Please read this article and THINK about it. I quote (my emphasis):

If that doesn't get through, I give up - it's like talking to a brick wall. Go drink your condensate and then, afterwards, have it analysed by a lab...

I never said it didn't have solids in it. And who said it wasn't filtered? You're having debates that you're really not having. I don't know who you're replying to but it's not me. You're doing exactly what I said you'd do, and now it's "my condensate".

What I have said is that yes, there's crap in the water, filtered or not.

[Malaria_Kidd]

Fluoride’s ability to damage the brain is one of the most active areas of fluoride research today. In the past three decades, over 100 studies have found that fluoride exposure can damage the brain. This research includes:

• Over 100 animal studies showing that prolonged exposure to varying levels of fluoride can damage the brain, particularly when coupled with an iodine deficiency, or aluminum excess;
  
• 42 human studies linking moderately high fluoride exposures with reduced intelligence;
  
• 30 animal studies reporting that mice or rats ingesting fluoride have an impaired capacity to learn and/or remember;
  
• 12 studies (7 human, 5 animal) linking fluoride with neurobehavioral deficits (e.g., impaired visual-spatial organization);
  
• 3 human studies linking fluoride exposure with impaired fetal brain development.
  

http://fluoridealert...s/health/brain/

The Division Bell - Pink Floyd - 1994

REF: GMO's and water fluoridation

There will always be divisions on those 2 issues when Washington D.C., big city and small town leaders in America take choice away from it's citizens.

Ask yourselves why even begin to medicate us this way without publicly posting a "state certified" medical license to do so? Demand to see "their" proper medical papers for "fluoridating" your H2O/ medicating you and your family!

MK

Edited December 29, 2014 by Malaria_Kidd