Fluoridating our Drinking Water

[Yamato]

There is definitely a body of evidence that this crap is dangerous, and some of it is based on the levels that are in our water. This needs further study

I would say an alternative to fluoridation would be to:

1) stop fluoridating water, 2) save money, 3) brush our damned teeth

Win-Win-Lose and problem solved.

But no, when someone suggests getting off the govt water, we raise conspiracy theories about fedgov picking up peoples dental bills because they weren't drinking the water. Does Medicare cover dental? Does Obamacare cover dental? Does Medicaid even cover dental? Good employer plans cover it, I won't discriminate against employers for giving Cadillac dental coverage, but this militant march in a straight line for govt spending our money and making us healthier is also the reason why we won't get rid of Obamacare and Medicare/Medicaid.

[ChrLzs]

That, Malaria Kidd, is exactly the sort of non-specific handwaving and ill-informed scaremongering that tinfoilers feed on..

ANY substance in large amounts, including H₂0, can damage the brain or kill you. Be specific, Malaria - where in ANY of those articles, does it say that the typical amounts in fluoridated water will do that???

QUOTE and cite the report. Prove that you have read and understand the information, and checked the source.

If you do NOT, then you are simply scaremongering and trying to mislead this forum.

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChrLzs

[danielost]

Fluorine is an element. It is a gas, never occurring in its free state. In microscopic amounts complexed with other minerals, it is often listed as a trace mineral, a nutrient for human nutrition.

The fluoride added to 90% of drinking water is hydrofluoric acid which is a compound of fluorine that is a chemical byproduct of aluminum, steel, cement, phosphate, and nuclear weapons manufacturing.

Such fluoride is manmade. In this form, fluoride has no nutrient value whatsoever. It is one of the most caustic of industrial chemicals. Fluoride is the active toxin in rat poisons and cockroach powder.

http://preventdisease.com/home/tips79.shtml

maybe you should see what it is made from and used in.

[ChrLzs]

Quoting Yamato:

What I can say about water condensate is that it isn't fluoridated, a meaningful difference

He then said:

I never said it didn't have solids in it.

Any questions? Like I said. Brick wall.

If that was me, Yamato, I would be humbly admitting I was wrong when I said that water condensate "isn't fluroridated".

I would be thanking the kind person who corrected my error and warned me that condensed water is a very bad thing to drink unless it is not only filtered, but also processed to remove dissolved solids like fluoride compounds (filtration normally doesn't do that).

But it wasn't me who made that error (and then pretended I didn't say it), so I don't have to...

It doesn't matter whose condensate it is, if it is not filtered and processed, it is dangerous - indeed much *more* dangerous than even *gasp* fluoridated tapwater.

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChrLzs

[TheDarkerSide]

i will keep my bad teeth, instead of possible harming someone else. my life is no more important than anyone else.

Keep your bad teeth! And while you are at it stop using any medications you may be taking. Stop using any personal hygiene products you use, stop eating most of the food you are eating, in fact don't even live in the building your in! Because I can assure you that in creating and manufacturing all of the above, and there are many more examples. People have suffered and died somewhere in the initial trials or processes.

No your life is no more important than someone else's, and neither is my own. But others have sacrificed their long term health and sometimes their lives to bring us these things in a way that we we can use as safely as possible. One should be more grateful for the risks others have taken.

[danielost]

Quoting Yamato:

He then said:

Any questions? Like I said. Brick wall.

If that was me, Yamato, I would be humbly admitting I was wrong when I said that water condensate "isn't fluroridated".

I would be thanking the kind person who corrected my error and warned me that condensed water is a very bad thing to drink unless it is not only filtered, but also processed to remove dissolved solids like fluoride compounds (filtration normally doesn't do that).

But it wasn't me who made that error (and then pretended I didn't say it), so I don't have to...

It doesn't matter whose condensate it is, if it is not filtered and processed, it is dangerous - indeed much *more* dangerous than even *gasp* fluoridated tapwater.

turns out the fluoride in the condensed water isn't the same in drinking out. one is good for you the other is just a poison. see my last link.

[ChrLzs]

Daniel, let's take this one step at a time and see if you can learn something. Please answer the following REALLY simple questions:

1. Do you ever eat salt?

2. Do human bodies need some salt to survive?

3. What is the chemical formula for salt?

Go on Dan, be brave and have a go.. It will be fun and you (might) learn something.. Answer those and then there will be just a few more - and the answers you give might help others, so how could you refuse this opportunity for learning and getting nearer to the truth?

Edited December 29, 2014 by ChrLzs

[TheDarkerSide]

Daniel, let's take this one step at a time and see if you can learn something. Please answer the following REALLY simple questions:

1. Do you ever eat salt?

2. Do human bodies need some salt to survive?

3. What is the chemical formula for salt?

Go on Dan, be brave and have a go.. It will be fun and you (might) learn something.. Answer those and then there will be just a few more - and the answers you give might help others, so how could you refuse this opportunity for learning and getting nearer to the truth?

Here's me heading to google .........

[Iron_Lotus]

i will keep my bad teeth, instead of possible harming someone else. my life is no more important than anyone else.

good and i hope they rot.

[Yamato]

Quoting Yamato:

He then said:

Any questions? Like I said. Brick wall.

If that was me, Yamato, I would be humbly admitting I was wrong when I said that water condensate "isn't fluroridated".

I would be thanking the kind person who corrected my error and warned me that condensed water is a very bad thing to drink unless it is not only filtered, but also processed to remove dissolved solids like fluoride compounds (filtration normally doesn't do that).

But it wasn't me who made that error (and then pretended I didn't say it), so I don't have to...

It doesn't matter whose condensate it is, if it is not filtered and processed, it is dangerous - indeed much *more* dangerous than even *gasp* fluoridated tapwater.

Yes of course that's what I said, the air above my head is not fluoridated. Whatever we may say about filtration, health, actually drinking it, and all the rest of the sphincter exercises.

After I say I'm not drinking it, suddenly it's my condensate and I am drinking it. Your straw has been on an assembly line here.

[Yamato]

Daniel, let's take this one step at a time and see if you can learn something. Please answer the following REALLY simple questions:

1. Do you ever eat salt?

2. Do human bodies need some salt to survive?

3. What is the chemical formula for salt?

Go on Dan, be brave and have a go.. It will be fun and you (might) learn something.. Answer those and then there will be just a few more - and the answers you give might help others, so how could you refuse this opportunity for learning and getting nearer to the truth?

Since we're going to beat up other people for their poorly worded posts, these are lousily worded questions when there are many different salts with different chemical formulas.

And you don't seem to answer questions very well for asking so many. Getting back to the topic....Again, how many ppm is the Fluoride in your water?

[ChrLzs]

Here's me heading to google .........

I'm just trying to show how ridiculous his logic is by comparing chloriDes and chloriNe to flouriDes and flourine. Using his ridiculous logic, salt is a deadly poison, because it has Chlorine in it. The truth is that as soon as an element becomes part of a chemical compound (eg a fluoride or chloride), its properties change completely. In the case of fluorides and chlorides, those compounds have nothing in common with the parent elements, and no chemical reaction in the body 'unbonds' them. That's why SALT (sodium chloride) has NOTHING in common with CHLORINE, nor is there a danger of chlorine poisoning from ingesting it. Daniel could learn something if he simply thinks about it..

[ChrLzs]

As you, Yamato, don't have the courage or morality to acknowledge your glaring errors, nor when you contradict yourself, forgive me if I let other readers decide who knows what they are talking about...

Why don't YOU answer the questions and feel free to correct their content. They are REALLY easy questions...

[ChrLzs]

And here's the next 2 questions..

4. What is the chemical compound for salt?

5. Does sodium chloride share any of the properties of elemental chlorine, the very poisonous gas?

Would a normal functioning brain be able to infer anything from the answers to those questions?

[Malaria_Kidd]

Hey! What's your name again?

The lines you quoted had blue highlighted letters back to Fluoride Alert's other fluoride H2O vs brain health topics. You can research them in depth and get back with us. I've heard Paul Connett PhD on Coast to Coast AM many times and I trust what he tells the 10 million + or - listeners.

Results from China, India, Iran and Mexico's studies on children and their region or city's different ppm DOSE OF MEDICINE!

http://fluoridealert...tudies/brain01/

My 2 last lines were passed over like being missed by you while thinking up odd ball names to print.

Ask yourselves why even begin to medicate us this way without publicly posting a "state certified" medical license to do so? Demand to see "their" proper medical papers for "fluoridating" your H2O/ medicating you and your family!

MK

Edited December 30, 2014 by Malaria_Kidd

[SHaYap]

First let's look at :

Fluoridation by country

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Artificial fluoridation of water, salt, and milk varies from country to country. Water fluoridation has been introduced to varying degrees in many countries, including Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Ireland, Malaysia, the U.S., and Vietnam,^[1] and is used by 5.7% of people worldwide.^[2] Continental Europe largely does not fluoridate water, although some of its countries fluoridate salt; locations have discontinued water fluoridation in Germany, the Netherlands, and other countries.^[2] Health and dental organizations support water fluoridation in the countries that practice water fluoridation.^[3] There has been opposition to water fluoridation whenever it is proposed.^{[citation needed]}

• wiki link
  

... then we look at this :

Israel Joins Most of the World In Banning Water Fluoridation

Posted on August 15, 2013 by WashingtonsBlog

America is the Odd Man Out

On July 29, 2013, the Supreme Court of Israel ruled that Israel must stop adding fluoride into public water supplies in one year, following a a decision on fluoride’s potential toxicity to humans by the Israeli health minister.

Israel is not the odd man out.

Only 369 million of the world’s 7 billion people drink water which is intentionally fluoridated:

• washington blog link
  

... because -

Israel Bans Fluoride

September 9, 2014

Mercola.com by Dr.Mercola

Health Issues

For related articles and more information, please visit OCA's Health Issues page.

Adding to a growing global movement to acknowledge the serious health risks associated with fluoride exposure, as of August 26, 2014, the Ministry of Health in Israel lifted the mandatory requirement for water fluoridation that was put in place in 1970.

There is now a nationwide ban on water fluoridation in Israel, a decision Israeli Health Minister Yael German said "would allow Israeli parents and doctors to decide on their own whether to provide fluoride to children, in what doses, and in what manner."1

While the debate over water fluoridation has many layers, the most fundamental is that adding fluoride to water is a medical treatment, and a forced one at that because this substance is difficult to remove from your water. As Professor Arnon Afek, director-general at the Health Ministry, told the Jerusalem Post:2

"Individuals have the right to decide if they want it [fluoride] or not We cannot force people The ministry supported it for over 40 years, but this is a new era. The world has changed, and we can educate parents."

• organic consumers link
  

... then we sit back and see who is winning ?

Never-Ending Controversy

Finding truth on both sides of the water fluoridation debate

...

No other public health controversy has been so long-running and so divided, with each side refusing to listen to the other, R. Allan Freeze and Jay H. Lehr note in their book "The Fluoride Wars: How a Modest Public Health Measure Became America's Longest-Running Political Melodrama."Advocates of fluoridation say it prevents dental cavities with no health risks. Those opposed question the benefits of fluoridation and say it leads to dental fluorosis, a cosmetic condition in which teeth become mottled, as well as other health problems such as crippling skeletal fluorosis and even cancer.

....

• cen acs org link
  

As for myself ... I ain't having none of it ... there's little enough I agree with or for Israel ~ I am going with them on this one ...

~

[ChrLzs]

Yes of course that's what I said, the air above my head is not fluoridated.

Whoops. While correcting errors, let's look at that one... Dear reader, your 'air' probably is fluoridated to some extent..

The air above your head contains a plethora of compounds, some as tiny particulates, some as dissolved solids in the water content. So in many/most places the air will in fact contain some fluorides as they are quite common in nature, and of course some of those dissolved solids will be carried up into the air as the water evaporates and then, when it rains or is condensed out in any way, it will still be dissolved in the condensate (will this ever get through, I wonder? is anyone else not getting it?). Indeed, air-borne fluoride is a partial contributor to why some regions have excess fluorides naturally occurring in their environment.

Now Yamato may live in a very unusual location, completely free of any air-borne fluorides - perhaps he has had his air assayed to test that out. But it is misleading to suggest that anyone else reading this will not get all manner of dissolved solids, including various fluoride compounds, in condensate/rainwater tanks/whatever.

BTW, if anyone is using some sort of condenser to produce drinking water, how about naming it so we can look into what sort of filtration it might use. I'm always happy to help educate!!

[SHaYap]

Curious here my learned O' Rabid Beagle ~ why are you not 'educating' those countries that has already banned fluoride in their waters ?

THink of it ... saving entire nations ... saving the world !

I can design your Superhero costume ... The Fluoride Avenger ... a mild mannered beagle in disguise ~

[Yamato]

As you, Yamato, don't have the courage or morality to acknowledge your glaring errors, nor when you contradict yourself, forgive me if I let other readers decide who knows what they are talking about...

Why don't YOU answer the questions and feel free to correct their content. They are REALLY easy questions...

Sorry I have no earthly idea what you're talking about. What errors were mine and what errors of yours am I supposed to be correcting?

[Yamato]

Whoops. While correcting errors, let's look at that one... Dear reader, your 'air' probably is fluoridated to some extent..

The air above your head contains a plethora of compounds, some as tiny particulates, some as dissolved solids in the water content. So in many/most places the air will in fact contain some fluorides as they are quite common in nature, and of course some of those dissolved solids will be carried up into the air as the water evaporates and then, when it rains or is condensed out in any way, it will still be dissolved in the condensate (will this ever get through, I wonder? is anyone else not getting it?). Indeed, air-borne fluoride is a partial contributor to why some regions have excess fluorides naturally occurring in their environment.

Now Yamato may live in a very unusual location, completely free of any air-borne fluorides - perhaps he has had his air assayed to test that out. But it is misleading to suggest that anyone else reading this will not get all manner of dissolved solids, including various fluoride compounds, in condensate/rainwater tanks/whatever.

BTW, if anyone is using some sort of condenser to produce drinking water, how about naming it so we can look into what sort of filtration it might use. I'm always happy to help educate!!

The atmosphere is fluoridated, and I'm the one in the tinfoil hat. Alrighty brother. I think you need to look up the definition of fluoridate to begin the process of self correction.

A condenser to produce drinking water....I think preacherman76 mentioned such a device by name maybe you should do some research on it if you're interested. My solutions were different, and provided above.

[ChrLzs]

Thirdeye, can you answer some new questions... here they are:

1. Are trace amounts of fluoride beneficial to dental health?

2. Is having the 'recommended' amount of flouride in your system dangerous?

3. Do any of your(my) taxes go towards paying for people who get, say, septicaemia from diseased teeth and gums?

Feel free to CITE and QUOTE any references you use..

Edited December 30, 2014 by ChrLzs

[Yamato]

And here's the next 2 questions..

4. What is the chemical compound for salt?

5. Does sodium chloride share any of the properties of elemental chlorine, the very poisonous gas?

Would a normal functioning brain be able to infer anything from the answers to those questions?

There are many chemical compounds for salt. #4 is a stupid question that somebody feigning a chemistry lesson wouldn't ask.

Question #5 is off-topic and inconsiderate of the research that's been presented numerous times about the topic. I'm going to ask you one on-topic question for the third time: How many ppm is the Fluoride in your water?

[ChrLzs]

The atmosphere is fluoridated, and I'm the one in the tinfoil hat.

YES, there is flouride in the air. NO, it isn't because the gubmint fluoridated the atmosphere, it is there BECAUSE it is a common substance and it dissolves in water and that water then evaporates and carries many of the dissolved substances into the air, quite apart from any that might simply be floating in the air as dust..

If you can't follow that really simple logic (and clearly you can't), then the conversation is worthless. Like I said, does anyone else not get this?

And yes, wear the hat with pride.

[Yamato]

YES, there is flouride in the air. NO, it isn't because the gubmint fluoridated the atmosphere, it is there BECAUSE it is a common substance and it dissolves in water and that water then evaporates and carries many of the dissolved substances into the air, quite apart from any that might simply be floating in the air as dust..

If you can't follow that really simple logic (and clearly you can't), then the conversation is worthless. Like I said, does anyone else not get this?

And yes, wear the hat with pride.

I'm well aware of the presence of fluoride in the environment but saying that it's fluoridated was pretty dumb no offense.

[ChrLzs]

There are many chemical compounds for salt.

Common household salt (and it was quite clear that was being referred to) is Sodium ChloriDe.

If the salt that you buy from the supermarket consists of anything else, then you should rightly complain.

Sodium ChloriDe (NaCl) is necessary for our health. It ISN'T the same, in any meaningful way as CHLORINE. Chlorine is a very dangerous and poisonous gas. But the ChloriDe ions in salt do NOT behave in any way like ChloriNe.

Can you not compare that to FluoriDe? Here, let me help you with that...

Sodium FluoriDe is necessary for our dental health (not as much is required as NaCl, of course..). It ISN'T the same, in any meaningful way as FLUORINE. Fluorine is also a very dangerous and poisonous gas. But the FluoriDe ions in NaF do NOT behave in any way like FluoriNe.

This stuff is really, really basic chemistry. A class that perhaps you snored your way thru?

#4 is a stupid question that somebody feigning a chemistry lesson wouldn't ask.

Here it is again:

4. What is the chemical compound for salt?

The answer is NaCl (Sodium chloriDe). Just as common household salt has nothing in common with ChloriNe gas in terms of toxicity, Sodium Fluoride has nothing in common with Fluorine in terms of toxicity.

Don't worry, Yam, some folks here are getting it.

Question #5 is off-topic and inconsiderate of the research that's been presented numerous times about the topic.

Here it is again:

5. Does sodium chloride share any of the properties of elemental chlorine, the very poisonous gas?

The answer (that Yamato and Daniel desperately want to avoid) is NO, of course it doesn't. Just as Sodium Fluoride doesn't share any of the properties of elemental Fluorine gas.

I'm going to ask you one on-topic question for the third time: How many ppm is the Fluoride in your water?

Sure - it is 0.8 ppm. Given that we know that the normal range for fluoridation is .6 to 1.0 ppm, why do you ask?

I'm interested to see you provide some logic and maths and peer -reviewed science to follow through along this interesting path, so over to you.