Fluoridating our Drinking Water

[SHaYap]

Thanks for providing so many, third_eye.

~snip

Most welcome kind Sir ~

[Malaria_Kidd]

Fluoride Poisoning and Fluoride Detox: Q & A

http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/fluoride_questions.html

I have not tried this but it is very interesting to read the long page.

Yamato's OP still stands tall with the young man taking his F questions to his local higher authority. I did the same thing 3 years ago and the next day the local paper's reporter had written about what went on during the town board's monthly meeting. But she left out my questioning the board to consider taking out the F. Before the report came out in the paper, I told my family nothing would be printed about my questions on F, and I was spot on!

"We don't drink fluoridated water!"

[+DieChecker]

Perhaps those areas that remove fluoride from the water (Because it is a poisonous chemical), should also remove the chlorine from their water? After all chlorine is just as dangerous, or more so in the form added to water, then fluoride is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_chlorination

Edited January 4, 2015 by DieChecker

[regeneratia]

You are really something else. My deep thought for the day? I feel sorry for the children of someone with your beliefs, that they will grow up with an extreme, senseless fear, failing to realize that the successful, healthy people all around them have been vaccinated and drinking fluoridated water all of their lives. How is that for deep thought?

I think you are way out of line. You can abstract if you want. But let me tell you, if you do, you will totally underestimate me. And that will be a downfall.

Speaking of abstractions, why on earth do people think that ingesting fluoride only affects the teeth? Our bodies are a total system, with one organ system affecting the other. One cannot abstract only the teeth in exclusion and/or in deference to all the other organs and body systems that come in contact with the ingestion of fluoride. I just don't get that people cannot see that what you do to your teeth certainly affects all other organ systems of the body. How can people abstrat the teeth from the totality of the body? We don't come into this world only teeth-nurtured.

It is really funny that the deep thought you think you are capable of is really an insult. Tell me, what exactly does that say about you? I know what I think it says. It says that you have substance abuse problems, since insulting is a hallmark behavior of substance abuse. And that is how I will view you from here on out, a drunk or druggie.

Edited January 5, 2015 by regeneratia

[Yamato]

Vaccinations might be a good idea for better health too, on balance. But nope, don't need that in my water either. While I got vaccinated and all my shots are somewhat up to date, I don't want our betters forcing that down our throats either anymore than I want to participate in lambasting people who chose to do without them.

Perhaps those areas that remove fluoride from the water (Because it is a poisonous chemical), should also remove the chlorine from their water? After all chlorine is just as dangerous, or more so in the form added to water, then fluoride is.

Do they remove it from the water or do they have safeguards so that the supply of drinking water isn't contaminated with fluoride solute in the first place, while usually fluoridating it too? I give incredible benefit of the doubt that this is all under control and there's nothing to worry about.

If they were adding Chlorine to the water? If I was here, then we'd have a sister thread running concurrently to this one. We'd be asking questions, looking at the research, arguing about Chemistry, and all the rest. Chlorine gas was already ostracized here by the Al-Fluoride brigade but I have a strong feeling that on the Chlorine thread the debates would take a more forgiving tone for Chloride's depressive daddy.

If anyone wants to know what's in their water, they might try the Community Right To Know Hotline at 1-800-424-9346 to at least find out what's supposed to be in it.

[Yamato]

Wait until our water supplies are hit by a terrorist attack. Suddenly everyone's tap water, and more specifically - what's in it - will be political Issue #1.

Then all the diapers will be wet, it'll be like Harry Potter casted a spell.

And quite like us, we'll have reactionary policies to deal with this new loophole in our security bubble. We'll go act like a bunch of wild monkeys off the coast of wherever, with our aircraft carriers and all our stuff. We'll drop bombs somewhere and hell we'll probably invade North Korea Just In Case, because hey that's just what dying empires do.

It's a shame to think of how much better we could have done with so much power. For our kids' sake, let's hope the new dragons from the east will have more grace than we did.

[danielost]

Vaccinations might be a good idea for better health too, on balance. But nope, don't need that in my water either. While I got vaccinated and all my shots are somewhat up to date, I don't want our betters forcing that down our throats either anymore than I want to participate in lambasting people who chose to do without them.

Do they remove it from the water or do they have safeguards so that the supply of drinking water isn't contaminated with fluoride solute in the first place, while usually fluoridating it too? I give incredible benefit of the doubt that this is all under control and there's nothing to worry about.

If they were adding Chlorine to the water? If I was here, then we'd have a sister thread running concurrently to this one. We'd be asking questions, looking at the research, arguing about Chemistry, and all the rest. Chlorine gas was already ostracized here by the Al-Fluoride brigade but I have a strong feeling that on the Chlorine thread the debates would take a more forgiving tone for Chloride's depressive daddy.

If anyone wants to know what's in their water, they might try the Community Right To Know Hotline at 1-800-424-9346 to at least find out what's supposed to be in it.

they do put chlorine in the water. in salt lake they do it once a week and you can taste it when they do.

[ian hacktorp]

Wait until our water supplies are hit by a terrorist attack. Suddenly everyone's tap water, and more specifically - what's in it - will be political Issue #1.

If this ever happened, the country could only be protected under the strong, loving leadership of Jeb Bush.

Or Hillary Clinton.

Or Jeb Bush.

Or Hillary Clinton.

In fact, if we are to save the country, shouldn't these two join forces and run the same ticket as co-commanders-in-chief against...well, nobody?

Wouldn't it be worth any price of remaining liberty and/or democracy to have the total security these two national treasures can bring as a team?

Bush-Clinton '16 and beyond...

[danielost]

If this ever happened, the country could only be protected under the strong, loving leadership of Jeb Bush.

Or Hillary Clinton.

Or Jeb Bush.

Or Hillary Clinton.

In fact, if we are to save the country, shouldn't these two join forces and run the same ticket as co-commanders-in-chief against...well, nobody?

Wouldn't it be worth any price of remaining liberty and/or democracy to have the total security these two national treasures can bring as a team?

Bush-Clinton '16 and beyond...

total security means no liberty and/or democracy.

[ian hacktorp]

total security means no liberty and/or democracy.

Exactly...i mean, it's not like we can't afford it, right?

Especially if we might be protected from the evil water-tainters and the besandal'd box-cutter brandishers

[Yamato]

danielost, in your own hypothetical drinking water, what would you like to have in it? What would you be willing to do, to get this water? Do you boil the water that you drink right now?

[danielost]

danielost, in your own hypothetical drinking water, what would you like to have in it? What would you be willing to do, to get this water? Do you boil the water that you drink right now?

no, i drink bottled water. i am unable to drink waco, water. it has a fungus in it and i got sick and threw up daily when i was drinking it. they had to get a doctors order before they could give me the bottled water. i used to enjoy drinking from little streams along the side of mountain roads when i was a kid. can't get away with that any more.

Exactly...i mean, it's not like we can't afford it, right?

Especially if we might be protected from the evil water-tainters and the besandal'd box-cutter brandishers

sorry i would rather have freedom and rights over 100% security.

[Yamato]

no, i drink bottled water

Can you specify what brand?

Interestingly, the FDA has lower standards for fluoride levels (bottled water) in non-fluoridated water than it does fluoridated.

The FDA standards of quality state that domestic bottled water with no added fluoride may contain between 1.4 and 2.4 milligrams per liter (mg/L) fluoride, depending on the annual average daily air temperatures at the location where the bottled water is sold. Domestic bottled water with added fluoride can contain between 0.8 and 1.7 mg/L fluoride, depending on the annual average daily air temperatures where the bottled water is sold. Imported bottled water with no added fluoride may not contain more than 1.4 mg/L fluoride, and imported bottled water with added fluoride may not contain more than 0.8 mg/L fluoride.

http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/faqs/bottled_water.htm

[+DieChecker]

Can you specify what brand?

Yeah, many bottled water brands are just "clean" tap water which originated in artesian wells. Many are fluoridated and chlorinated.

[Yamato]

Exactly. Just because it's bottled doesn't necessarily mean you can avoid ingesting Fluoride. Interestingly the standards are higher for imported water, and the highest standard (for the lowest-guaranteed fluoride content) is for imported fluoridated water. It's pretty ironic. The more I learn the more CrimsonKing's Catch-22 is proven correct.

[TheDarkerSide]

So is tap water as bad as bottled water? Or is bottled water as bad as tap water.

Either way you have to consume either one or the other. Or you could reverse osmosis either, and then take mineral supplements.

Just give me the tap, so much easier.

[Yamato]

It's being said across the internet that more than half of Americans drink bottled water. There's probably at least a large minority of these waters that come from the public water supply. If one needed mass quantities of clean water to reprocess, bottle in plastic and sell for profit, why wouldn't the water flowing from the taps be the best base for this business idea from an economic standpoint?

With bottled water we're selling something that costs up to 10,000 times as much as tap water. How much better is the $40,000 car compared with the $4 car? It better be a lot better, right? I suppose I've finally found the one great example of government doing something more cheaply than the free market. It suggests the free market doesn't always do things cheaper, it just exploits the opportunity to profit.

If new tests come out and public water supplies are showing higher fluoride/chlorine/whatever than we were led to believe, at least there are alternatives and I won't die of dehydration

[TheDarkerSide]

I am so glad I followed and added to this debate. This being the first thread that has really reached out to me, and the first that I have actually really felt a need to participate in. I would like to say thanks to all that took part, and to Yomato for raising the question in the first place. Thank again for all the informative links that were made available. It widened my whole understanding of the topic. Although sometimes we do not all see eye to eye, it is wonderful that we have this forum, and the the people that host and modulate it. This is one of the reasons that make living in the west great. The fact we can voice our opinions in what ever topic we choose. It can be debated in full. Minds can be changed, or stay the same, that doesn't matter. Just the fact we can do it freely is testament in itself.

A bit of topic but...

Rest In Peace. All the victims of the Paris shooting atrocity.

Edited January 7, 2015 by TheDarkerSide

[+DieChecker]

I'm not sure that bottled water has any labeling that shows fluoridation levels. Maybe if you went to the companies website you could find which ones have what specific bottling processes, and where the water comes from.If the water comes from a snow melt stream in the Rocky Mountains, then that would be a lot better then if it comes from the LA tap water.

I'd be very much surprised if half of Americans primarily drank bottled water. I'd think 50% would be the number that drank one or more bottled water within the last year, which is another issue all together, as one bottle is only 1/1000th of the water needed in a year.

[regeneratia]

I'm not sure that bottled water has any labeling that shows fluoridation levels. Maybe if you went to the companies website you could find which ones have what specific bottling processes, and where the water comes from.If the water comes from a snow melt stream in the Rocky Mountains, then that would be a lot better then if it comes from the LA tap water.

I'd be very much surprised if half of Americans primarily drank bottled water. I'd think 50% would be the number that drank one or more bottled water within the last year, which is another issue all together, as one bottle is only 1/1000th of the water needed in a year.

I have actually written to the companies to send me a breakdown of their testing and what exactly is in that bottle of water, including the BPA from the packaging. They do indeed know this stuff and send it to me, perhaps hoping that I won't understand it. I tell them outright, if there is any fluoride is in their product, I simply will not be purchasing their product.

Just to let you know, I don't purchase bottled water unless I am dehuydrated and bottled water is the only option for hydration. I do reverse osmosis, and fill a glass container (Voss bottles mostly) and carry it around with me, disregarding the weight and convenience. And to report: green, oolong and all other teas are never as good as when you are using reverse osmosis water, which is what is in my Voss bottles most of the time. I am a tea-aholic, organic loose leaf (rishi), but never use tap water for my teas, never. Non-tap water organic tea has become almost a religion for me. Tea naturallyhas fluoride. I am ok with that.

Edited January 10, 2015 by regeneratia

[danielost]

I have actually written to the companies to send me a breakdown of their testing and what exactly is in that bottle of water, including the BPA from the packaging. They do indeed know this stuff and send it to me, perhaps hoping that I won't understand it. I tell them outright, if there is any fluoride is in their product, I simply will not be purchasing their product.

Just to let you know, I don't purchase bottled water unless I am dehuydrated and bottled water is the only option for hydration. I do reverse osmosis, and fill a glass container (Voss bottles mostly) and carry it around with me, disregarding the weight and convenience. And to report: green, oolong and all other teas are never as good as when you are using reverse osmosis water, which is what is in my Voss bottles most of the time. I am a tea-aholic, organic loose leaf (rishi), but never use tap water for my teas, never. Non-tap water organic tea has become almost a religion for me. Tea naturallyhas fluoride. I am ok with that.

some teas have fluoride in them. something call block tea.

[Malaria_Kidd]

Hello Yamato,

The Telegraph news from February, 23, 2015

Fluoride in drinking water may trigger depression and weight gain, warn scientists. Around 15,000 people could be suffering needlessly from thyroid problems because of fluoride in drinking water, the University of Kent has warned.

Sarah Knapton, Science editor

s

Fluoride could be causing depression and weight gain and councils should stop adding it to drinking water to prevent tooth decay, scientists have warned.

A study of 98 per cent of GP practices in England found that high rates of underactive thyroid were 30 per cent more likely in areas of the greatest fluoridation.

It could mean that up to 15,000 people are suffering needlessly from thyroid problems which can cause depression, weight gain, fatigue and aching muscles.

Last year Public Health England released a report saying fluoride was a ‘safe and effective’ way of improving dental health.

But new research from the University of Kent suggests that there is a spike in the number of cases of underactive thyroid in high fluoride areas such as the West Midlands and the North East of England.

Contd. here.......!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11430087/Fluoride-in-drinking-water-may-trigger-depression-and-weight-gain-warn-scientists.html

[Yamato]

That's an interesting study, MK. For all the talk of other elements having beneficial effects in our bodies, fluoride isn't one of them.

I know there are studies that suggest the F water is effective at fighting cavities and I posted some myself. I know my dentist told me this as well. Still it's difficult for me to imagine fluoridated water doing much for the plaque on our teeth. It washes over our teeth in one or two seconds so it can stay in our bodies for hours. It's a solution to a problem that's so inefficient it seems preposterous. Maybe my thinking is wrong but that's what it is.

There are indeed studies that do show less cavities over a period of time before and after fluoridation. I trust that the data is well-intended and accurate. But I don't have undying confidence that the studies sufficiently controlled for other variables, such as the coinciding technological advances in dentistry and dental products for consumers. Another possible problem I see with it is the similar timing between the fluoridation of the water and the public's growing awareness of the critical importance of dental hygiene habits.

I can't call it either way but I'd like to see states or counties make their own decisions. I'd really like to have some tap water out there that isn't fluoridated so we can have the head to head competition between fluoridated and not-fluoridated that can leave the variables like education, hygiene habits, economic means, and culture, constant. I'd love to see two upper middle class counties in America square off against each other on tooth decay, IQ, thyroidism, fluorosis and all the rest of it. I think the biggest problem of all when it comes to fluoride is the lack of data.

The study in Kent... fluoride is definitely something people need to be aware of. To fluoridate or not-to-fluoridate would seem like an issue simple enough that voters could vote on it county by county, right? Officials don't seem to have any motivation whatever to address the choice (there's too much fun to be had elsewhere) so this is a topic that's out of the political arena and in the hands of the scientists for now. I'm glad we resisted the attempted politicization of the topic; I appreciate your help brother.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Yamato

[Rafterman]

Hello Yamato,

The Telegraph news from February, 23, 2015

Fluoride in drinking water may trigger depression and weight gain, warn scientists. Around 15,000 people could be suffering needlessly from thyroid problems because of fluoride in drinking water, the University of Kent has warned.

Sarah Knapton, Science editor

s

Fluoride could be causing depression and weight gain and councils should stop adding it to drinking water to prevent tooth decay, scientists have warned.

A study of 98 per cent of GP practices in England found that high rates of underactive thyroid were 30 per cent more likely in areas of the greatest fluoridation.

It could mean that up to 15,000 people are suffering needlessly from thyroid problems which can cause depression, weight gain, fatigue and aching muscles.

Last year Public Health England released a report saying fluoride was a ‘safe and effective’ way of improving dental health.

But new research from the University of Kent suggests that there is a spike in the number of cases of underactive thyroid in high fluoride areas such as the West Midlands and the North East of England.

Contd. here.......!

http://www.telegraph...scientists.html

It would appear there are some issues with that study as highlighted in the article. It's also important to remember that it's an outlier when it comes to research on the safety of fluoridation. That's a huge problem with scientific reporting as, in most cases, it lacks sufficient context for the layperson to draw conclusions.

But sitting all of that aside, there's a HUGE error in the story that needs to be mentioned:

"But previous studies have found that it inhibits the production of iodine, which is essential for a healthy thyroid."

You guys see the problem? The human body DOESN'T PRODUCE IODINE. We have to get it from our diets. Which is why, until recently at least (thanks Luddites), most table salts were fortified with iodine. So if this was an error in the study, then the whole thing is worthless. If it is an error in the reporting, then I would seriously question anything else in the article because the reporter doesn't have any idea what she's talking about.

http://www.webmd.com...uses-treatments

Edited February 24, 2015 by Rafterman

[Yamato]

Iodine is produced by redox reactions from its typically oxidized states or the anion iodide.

Rafterman, you're misleading people too by adding a specific subject ("the human body") to the author's statement. While I agree with you that yes, it could have been better written and it can lead us to drawing false conclusions, nothing was specified about how it was produced. That was an assumption on your part. If the studies show that with diets remaining equal the fluoride was the trick that turned the data over, then that's good enough for me.

I trust that University of Kent is free from tinfoil hat wearing?