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Yamato

Fluoridating our Drinking Water

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Yamato

Wait. Stop. Go back and read my post. Do I say anything about toothpaste? Hint (because I know you'll need it): no.

You don't understand pretty basic concepts like dosage and fallacy. You're deliberately using inflammatory language to describe something because you don't understand it. If I drink too much of my Bristlecone Brown tonight (such a great example), it's a problem. If I eat too much of my liver and onions, it's a problem. Alcohol or Vitamin A to excess are problematic. So is fluoride. However, that does not make it logically relevant to call those things "poisons". To do so is intellectually dishonest, fallacious, and inflammatory. So stop doing it.

Maybe Johnson & Johnson or Procter & Gamble don't understand pretty basic concepts like dosage and fallacy? The tube doesn't say anything about how much. It just says poison.

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

Maybe Johnson & Johnson or Procter & Gamble don't understand pretty basic concepts like dosage and fallacy? The tube doesn't say anything about how much. It just says poison.

Mine does.

15973484897_507b0ddf55.jpgI

15971936170_ba733230e0.jpg

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Yamato

Mine does.

15973484897_507b0ddf55.jpgI

15971936170_ba733230e0.jpg

LOL that's for using it, not swallowing it!

What's a bit odd though is that its an effective agent to tooth decay "in our opinion".

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TheDarkerSide

here is the main difference between fluoridating tap water and using bottled water. fluoridating water forces everyone to drink the poison. using bottled water only affects yourself.

So I take it from that, your viewpoint as it is poison, you do not bath nor shower nor wash with it. Please remember that poisons can easily leach through your epidermis layer.

Edited by TheDarkerSide
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Travelling Man

And let's not forget that even H2O can be poisonous and there are both health and safety concerns. Stop ingesting anything with carbon in it, since carbon is a poison. Oh, and Oxygen is a poison - too much and you get too high, not enough and you're going to die (sorry, I just dated myself). Hydrogen is explosive AND poisonout.

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Yamato

The tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists at DHHS lowered their recommended level of fluoride in our drinking water in January 2011 from 0.7 - 1.2 ppm to 0.7 ppm

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Yamato

A little alcohol is actually good for you. Maybe the government SHOULD add a little alcohol to the water supply???

Exactly, and that is the exact argument of the fluoridation express. Government should be giving us what's good for us! We can play that game all day. If we did, eventually the logic is going to catch up to everyone that gee, maybe it's not the government's job to clean our teeth for us, et al, etc, ad nauseum.

If anything this issue has shown me politically just how entitled people feel to something after it's already being provided. Evidence, I should add, that's completely at odds with the chances of repealing Obamacare.

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NiteMarcher

We don't have fluoride in our drinking water and where I live, they don't want it and don't need it--why? Our drinking water taste better than that which is purchased in a bottle--and yet the military bases located here are required to have fluoride in their drinking water.

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Yamato

I don't know how you can defend the claim that fluoride doesn't fight tooth decay but he's correct to say that fluoride will destroy your teeth if left on them via a clingy medium such as toothpaste. I had braces when I was a kid/teen, which were like little squares attached normally to the front surfaces of my teeth, apparently I was leaving toothpaste in the corner between the tooth and the brace, and as a result I had nice straight teeth with nice brown scars on them from the fluoride. Now they want to drill the fluoride damage off and fill it with goop that's the color of my teeth. The cost of all this? A bit over $1000 with tax if you factor a professional bleaching in.

Someone was implying that there was government coverage for this?

Anyway, I would feel more scared switching to a non-fluoridated toothpaste and brushing my teeth with that for six months, than drinking the water for six months.

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Malaria_Kidd

Thanks NiteMarcher for noting the military base get's fluoridated H2O. It would have a better "use" for the populace in fighting fires. Because the maker of "Fluoridegate", the film by Dr. David Kennedy (above) says it simply does not have any good "use" or "reason" to be in our bodies. But the ppm intake by drinking teas and juices, wines, and beer won't be on the labels! :w00t:

Yamato,

Does our government have cosmetic dental coverage? You bet! :passifier: Fluoride in our drinking water is a government mandated :santa:gift that keeps on giving! :td:

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Yamato

If we're in a hypothetical area that allegedly fluoridates the water at 1 ppm, if we drink twice as much water we're getting as much fluoride as if the fluoridation was 2 ppm.

My ex drank 2-4L of water a day when she was exercising for 1-2 hours/day. Fluoridated water even at 1 ppm is not the kind of water we can drink our fill of. It's nice to think that we can drink all we want of what's coming out of our taps but we should be better educated than to think that. In light of recent research, fluoride's effects on human health need a lot more study good or bad, with or without the wrestling match.

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Rafterman

If we're in a hypothetical area that allegedly fluoridates the water at 1 ppm, if we drink twice as much water we're getting as much fluoride as if the fluoridation was 2 ppm.

My ex drank 2-4L of water a day when she was exercising for 1-2 hours/day. Fluoridated water even at 1 ppm is not the kind of water we can drink our fill of. It's nice to think that we can drink all we want of what's coming out of our taps but we should be better educated than to think that. In light of recent research, fluoride's effects on human health need a lot more study good or bad, with or without the wrestling match.

What research would that be?

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Doc Socks Junior

I gave you a big toothy grin and you gave me a thumbs up. That's the spirit. Let's not be scared and let's present the evidence. Normally the Nazis don't play any role whatsoever in how I live my daily life. For instance, I don't have guilt, I don't have to endlessly pay the pot, intellectually or monetarily, because of a war my country won in Europe, or any of the conspiracy theories that have come out of the war or something the Nazis allegedly did.

You called it a fairy tale, now I'm motivated to extract the truth out of the fiction, if there is any truth at all. So they didn't fluoridate the water to pacify people (and the whole CT is utter BS?) or they did fluoridate the water but because they were worried about tooth decay, or they didn't fluoridate the water at all, or there's experimental evidence that it doesn't do what the Al Foil Brigade says it does and they were wrong for doing it to pacify people because it doesn't work? A fairy tale is something that never happened, so is that what you're saying here?

And don't be another poster who mistakenly gets me wrong. I'll stick this sword in the conspiracy theory as deep as you and turn the blade even harder than you once it's in. I'd rather get to the truth than have to suffer abusive know-it-alls with zero credentials who want to have the last word on Fluoride much less Chemistry in general (wow). We're not qualified for that, which is why we look at research and not laugh at it.

This already was posted. I'll post it again.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/oct/06/critics-water-fluoridation/truth-about-fluoride-doesnt-include-nazi-myth/

The Great FAN* Poster Competition

http://fluoridealert...er-competition/

A poster competition isn't exactly what I meant by peer-reviewed articles supporting your position. But a good try nonetheless.

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danielost

from the above link. i find it funny that the expert cannot say for sure that the germans didn't do it.

Andy Hollinger, who handles media relations at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, tried not to laugh as we explained our fact-check.

"I can almost guarantee you that is indeed an urban myth," he said. "... That sounds like Conspiracy Theory 101."

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Doc Socks Junior

from the above link. i find it funny that the expert cannot say for sure that the germans didn't do it.

Andy Hollinger, who handles media relations at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, tried not to laugh as we explained our fact-check.

"I can almost guarantee you that is indeed an urban myth," he said. "... That sounds like Conspiracy Theory 101."

"who handles media relations"

"who handles media relations"

"who handles media relations"

"who handles media relations"

If you don't bother to comprehend what you read, you'll look silly.

You look silly right now.

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Yamato

What research would that be?

Well I'm glad you asked. Let's begin with the OP video which is up for discussion and debate right now!

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Yamato

This already was posted. I'll post it again.

http://www.politifac...lude-nazi-myth/

Thank you for clearing that up. So there's zero evidence that the Nazis fluoridated the water for healthy teeth or pacifistic Jews or any other reason conceivable by man. That's fantastic, but my opinion on this topic isn't budged because it isn't based on conspiracy theory. They weren't killing Jews in ovens either, for the record. But who the bloody hell cares about accuracy eh?

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Doc Socks Junior

That's not research. But...

0:29

Pretty basic question to have answered. Water is fluoridated for dental health. Which he really should know if he is purporting to know anything about the topic.

0:41

Yes. He's going to talk about the Harvard study. The Harvard meta-study (which he probably doesn't realize is a thing), which looked at the results from other studies that took place in China. I'll link to it!

http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1104912/

There's a lot of things going on there. Good study to read. The authors also did a pilot study themselves. Again, good thing to read.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0892036214001809

He's mixing up studies at this point. The Harvard meta-analysis didn't say anything about the brain. Very misleading way to talk about it.

3:00

Okay. Save money. Okay. His worry for the children is admirable. There's an interesting point here which he doesn't realize. He talks about naturally occurring fluoride in groundwater. Right? Yeah. He seems to dismiss that as unimportant. But it turns out that all of the China studies were dealing with naturally occurring fluoride in groundwater. That's when it becomes a problem...when it reaches high concentrations and is uncontrolled. The addition of fluoride to water supplies is well below the levels that were negatively correlated in many of those studies. I'm a little worried about his research into the topic if he didn't catch that.

Also, his two types of fluoride thing. Dissociation of the ionic compounds he's talking about really means that the ion is the ion. So...one type. Not that I'm a chemist, but...

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danielost

"who handles media relations"

"who handles media relations"

"who handles media relations"

"who handles media relations"

If you don't bother to comprehend what you read, you'll look silly.

You look silly right now.

the man should either know what he is talking about or keep his mouth shut. also if he isn't the expert how come the expert didn't say anything. in other words it seems the man doesn't know what he is talking about.

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Doc Socks Junior

the man should either know what he is talking about or keep his mouth shut.

Hahahahahahahahaha. YES. He should. So should many people.

also if he isn't the expert how come the expert didn't say anything. in other words it seems the man doesn't know what he is talking about.

The expert did say something. Once again, did you even bother to read it? Probably not.

Read.

Before.

You.

Post.

Otherwise you look silly. Once again, you're looking silly.

Read.

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danielost

Hahahahahahahahaha. YES. He should. So should many people.

The expert did say something. Once again, did you even bother to read it? Probably not.

Read.

Before.

You.

Post.

Otherwise you look silly. Once again, you're looking silly.

Read.

i obvously read it, in order to pick out one sentence.

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rashore

Allright folks... keep the discussion nice please.

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Doc Socks Junior

i obvously read it, in order to pick out one sentence.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you're being deliberately obtuse. Not giving you the benefit of the doubt, you're being dishonest. Not good, either way.

Several historians were quoted in that link. Experts. You pick out the media director saying something, something that turned out to be CORRECT, and say that he doesn't know what he is talking about and should keep his mouth shut. You ask why the experts didn't say anything.

THEY DID. Angels and ministers of grace defend us, THEY DID.

Edit: I'm being indescribably nice based on what i'm dealing with.

Edited by socrates.junior

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Arbenol

the man should either know what he is talking about or keep his mouth shut.

Probably the wisest post you've ever made, Daniel.

You should try it.

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