The Paranormal is it Fake?

[Frank Merton]

Yea you are much smarter than Descartes.

[Mr Walker]

Yea you are much smarter than Descartes.

We all stand on the shoulders of giants .If i wasn't more knowledgeable /smarter than any man from 400 years ago, then there would be something very wrong.

Modern sciences, access to computers, and the abilty to read very quickly all give me knowledge and understandings which were simply not available to descartes. I AM very intelligent in quantifiable ways, but it is not this that enables me to understand that descartes was wrong. It is a modern understanding of sciences, from evolutionary biology to neuro science.

[Einsteinium]

One can only make logical extrapolations based on ones own evidences and experiences. Those of others can be used for comparison and evaluation but do not apply to an individual.

I use the term "mind meld" becaus e most people would recognise this term. It is a form of hive consciousness also where an individual mind cn both access the uiversal mind but also use the universal mind to link to any other conscious being in the universe. But i first met the cosmic consciousness as a young lad in the late 1950s, long befre star trek was written or thought of. My point is that,because i am totally a normal human being in mind and body, then anything i am capable of doing, so can most other humans (there may be some exceptions. For example while "normal" i cant see some colours very well or distinguish tones accurately while others can)

You are correc,t in that we have an individual mind and body BUT also are part of a greater mind and body, just as individual neurons are part of a larger human brain.

Ps where do you think writers GET ideas like the borg super consciousness or mind melding, from?

But other people have entirely different 'evidences and experiences' than you do. Therefore you are stating that multiple different realities exist simultaneously. And each person experiences their own reality, independent of your reality. That simply must be the logical conclusion you have to draw. Because your experience equals true reality TO YOU, and another persons experience equals their own true reality, which in cases directly contradicts your experience.

So tell me, do you accept what I just said as being logically true, based on what you have been saying?

Define what a normal human being is to you, because in my mind you are not a normal human being

Subjective experience does not equal true reality. If this was true then every schizophrenic the world over is experiencing a true reality and not a reality the product of a malfunctioning brain. If this was true then every acid or mushroom tripper really is experiencing a real truthful reality, not simple hallucinations. The fact of the matter is that subjective experience is extremely fallible, totally unreliable, and is a product of the brain's processing of sensory inputs which is reliant on objective scientific known facts of chemistry and biology.

All I am saying, and have been saying, is that you cannot extrapolate subjective conscious experience into an objective truth. If this was possible, then people never would have though that the earth was the center of the universe, people would have understood that bacteria and viruses caused disease and not demons. But people were unable to realize these objective truths through subjective cosmic consciousness experiences. 'Cosmic consciousness' is not a new experience, it has been experienced by humans since recorded history, and probably much earlier. If objective truth's could be discerned through this alone, then people would not need the objective scientific method to understand reality. All they would need to do is tap into this cosmic consciousness. If what you say is true, then why are you not using your ability to tap into cosmic consciousness to help solve big world problems? Why are you using it selfishly to profit from the lottery? If what you say is true, then you sir are squandering a gift of immense proportions for your own selfish needs and gains. And that sir, is shameful.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Einsteinium

[Mikko-kun]

There can be a parallel explanation to everything, even if we couldn't come up with it or dont get why it's viable even if it is. Or if some of us have bits of distortion in their "eyes". Most of all, when you view anything from a different angle, you see different things. Look at another human being from the side, when their face is in 90 degree different direction than yours. You see only one eye, half the mouth and a human who has only one arm and leg if they stand straight. But that's not true, right? And if you look at a human from behind they have no face. And from front no butt. And if hair covers their ears, they have no ears. But is anything you see false? No, it's just a part of the bigger picture.

[Mr Walker]

But other people have entirely different 'evidences and experiences' than you do. Therefore you are stating that multiple different realities exist simultaneously. And each person experiences their own reality, independent of your reality. That simply must be the logical conclusion you have to draw. Because your experience equals true reality TO YOU, and another persons experience equals their own true reality, which in cases directly contradicts your experience.

So tell me, do you accept what I just said as being logically true, based on what you have been saying?

Define what a normal human being is to you, because in my mind you are not a normal human being

Subjective experience does not equal true reality. If this was true then every schizophrenic the world over is experiencing a true reality and not a reality the product of a malfunctioning brain. If this was true then every acid or mushroom tripper really is experiencing a real truthful reality, not simple hallucinations. The fact of the matter is that subjective experience is extremely fallible, totally unreliable, and is a product of the brain's processing of sensory inputs which is reliant on objective scientific known facts of chemistry and biology.

All I am saying, and have been saying, is that you cannot extrapolate subjective conscious experience into an objective truth. If this was possible, then people never would have though that the earth was the center of the universe, people would have understood that bacteria and viruses caused disease and not demons. But people were unable to realize these objective truths through subjective cosmic consciousness experiences. 'Cosmic consciousness' is not a new experience, it has been experienced by humans since recorded history, and probably much earlier. If objective truth's could be discerned through this alone, then people would not need the objective scientific method to understand reality. All they would need to do is tap into this cosmic consciousness. If what you say is true, then why are you not using your ability to tap into cosmic consciousness to help solve big world problems? Why are you using it selfishly to profit from the lottery? If what you say is true, then you sir are squandering a gift of immense proportions for your own selfish needs and gains. And that sir, is shameful.

Everyone has entirely differnt SUBJECTIVE experinces to me But most people have many physicla experiences in common, from eating to breathing.

This is a complex issue, but at heart quite simple For every human, life is divided into the phsical/ objective and cognitive/subjective experince. This is ONLY true for humans because w are the only species with a language based on self aware consciousness which is capapble to recognise categorise excange and compre symbolic constcuts beliefs etc.

So, when i see an elephant i can bring a huge range of objective data /knolwedge, plus much subjective mental costruction, feeling, instinctive reaction, emotionalresponse to my understanding and analtysis of the elephant.

But to compound this even further i am capable of recognising my emotional instinctive reactions and their causes and thus negating modifing or atering them. I can chose not to fear an elpeaht as a conscious act of will even if my instinctive reation is one of fear. Or i can chose to see a lovable pet dog as something to fear or be jealous of.

Objective reality is that which exists as an indepnedent objective quantity eg a tree Subjective reality is how we decide to view a tree.

Mentally disfunctional people, including those with dementia or schitzo phrenia actually do not see that which is there at times and at times see that which does not exist This forces them to confabulate or rrationalise reasons for wah they can see and are sure must be true.

This is not true for a normal functioning human being We might make some errors based on ignorance, a lack of care in observaton, or on other factors such as historical culturla understandings but we see wha texists and we intepret that which exists using ogic evidence etc. and so we do not walk off clifs or through walls.

the reality of cosmic consciousness mustbe tested by the same evidences an logic and withthe same rigour as any other knolwde/reality

And ps I do not waste my gifts. They were given to me for a reason. In my life my wife and i have donated over a million dollars to people organisations and charities around the world including both human animal and environmental) we have saved thousands of lives and made many more more safe bearable and comfortable. We provide jobs food sanitation education etc to some of the most needy peopleon the planet It is basically because i am blessed with so much (and because i live in a country like austrlaia where the tax system allows me to give two or three times for each dollar i earn) that i can give so much Eg if give an organisation 1000 dollars, at my tax rate I get back about 500 dollars as a tax deduction. I give that to a charity and i get back 250, which i give again. Multiply that by 20000 dollars or so a year and you can do a lot.

God "tops up my riches" because he can more easily do so in a country like australia (wealth brings opportunity for greater wealth) and then I can do more for women children etc around the world My wife and i have never been on a holiday for 30 years, except when we lost everything we owned in a bush fire, and we buy all my clothes from second hand shops. A full outfit costs me about $10-15 and will last me four or five years. We live a rich and lucky life but it is in the giving of self that we become human My wife is appraising some beautiful antique jewellery left and given to her, so that she can sell it and give the proceeds to a relief agency for kids in somalia. In our view; gold (even beautiful and well crafted pieces) is nothing, compared with being able to feed a hundred children or so for a year

I dont blame your cynicism, with me talking about lottery wins etc. But god provides for a purpose. Which could be WHY we are so "rich" in life. No matter how much we give away, more is given to us, so it becomes a self perpetuating cycle of renewal and hope.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

It called pious fraud and we see a lot of it around. You make questionable personal claims to support an unbelievable assertion. It is not a very credible thing to do, and tends to get you ignored.

LOL You said it. You find my claims unbelievable. In consequence you MUST find rational reasons to explain why i would make them. EG fraud delusion etc Consider the alternative. i write the simple truth. I am an honest man, and not even a deluded one. I do not require reasons to tell the truth. No one does. It is simply life's narrative.

And call me naive, but i do not make judgement calls on other peole's claims either, because there is no way I can test them.

I know some peole lie and i understand the many reasons why some people find a need to. I was taught from birth always to tell the truth and then let the outcomes fall as the may. Of course my understanding of "the truth" is incopmlete and subjective but hat is a part of the huma condition we can only do our best.

" My truth" has contextual integrity, is backed by evidences and logic, and most of all, WORKS very effectively in the mundane world.