Mysterious sailors 40 000 BC

[+DieChecker]

Sorry because english is not my mother tonge.

Well there are many things to say . First spaniel conquers wrote down that they have found many huge Raft used for commerce between pre Columbian tribes. What happen is that they were written in Spanish. For example conquer Salomon Jerez (1526) found a huge draft full of merchandise aprox. 30 metric ton.

On the other hand , Professor Antczak of Univerity Simon Bolivar proved that pre-Columbian tribes peddled more than 150 Km to reach Los Roques Islands. There are thousand of clay idols in a place where clay and wood in not possible. Los Roques are coral reef island. No trees , no clay at all.

Beside , Isla de Pascua – Chile, is at the middle of pacific ocean . If you use Google Earth , you can measure distance between two near sea shore . Chile 3000 Km and New Zeland 6000Km . Pre Columbians had Rongo Rongo tables, moais , etc. and they were not able to build a good raft???

I am a sailor . Ocean current and wind sometimes meet and create a highway . Some time you just have to float and sooner or later will reach next shore. From this point of view. It was well known that sailing from Europe to South America must be done pointing south Caribbean , and return from South America to Europe must reach north of Cuba. And you can sail with a simple raft.

Eskimo used 30 people Umiak (Huge Raft) and sail between USA and Greenland. Same thing happened between west coast and Russia . Dsitance is short to short only 90 km.

Welcome hbenedet.

I would agree that ancient humans were very able to use rafts to cross river, lakes and over stretches of ocean.

[lightly]

I think outriggers and sails are probably much older than known of.

I'm also fascinated by Guara Boards (weird course stabilizer and surface current Water Sails)

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/Guara.html

[jmccr8]

There is evidence of the use of watercraft that far exceed 40kbp,hominid groups followed coasts and waterways as they expanded out of Africa.For me from what I've read am inclined to speculate that the use of watercraft may have been more extensively employed that is currently accepted human nature is to do what works and having lapses in time and location for the use of watercraft just doesn't seem appropriate to that nature.

jmccr8

[crystal sage]

also, the aborgines reached australia 50,000yrs ago, not 40,000yrs ago.

Some now say up to 75,000 years ago.. Some stories by the Elders...

"The site is known as Tnorala to the Western Arrernte Aboriginal people, and is a sacred place. It is now located in the Tnorala Conservation Reserve. A Western Arrernte story attributes its origins to a cosmic impact: in the Dreaming, a group of celestial women were dancing as stars in the Milky Way. One of the women grew tired and placed her baby in a wooden basket. As the women continued dancing, the basket fell and plunged into the earth. The baby fell to the earth and forced the rocks upward, forming the circular mountain range."

This suggests the local Aboriginal people had some knowledge of how the bluss was formed. That's interesting since the event happened approximately 145 million years ago...!

How can this be possible if there we no humans around to witness the event. Even if they were, the resulting explosion from the impact would have wiped out all living things for hundreds (if not thousands) of miles around.

Wolfe Creek is another site where the local Aboriginals have celestial Dreamtime stories about the site. Formed about 300,000 years ago, the story as told by an Elder " is that one day the crescent moon and the evening star passed very close to each other. The evening star became so hot that it fell to the ground, causing an enormous explosion and flash, followed by a dust cloud. This frightened the people and a long time passed before they ventured near the crater to see what had happened. When they finally went there, they realised that this was the site where the evening star had fallen to the Earth.

and of the Mungo Man reputed to be between 65 to 75 thousand years old...

Comparison of the mitochondrial DNA of Mungo Man with that of ancient and modern Aborigines has indicated that Mungo Man is not related to Australian Aborigines. If this is true, the implications for the origins of human colonisation in Australia are huge.

corroborates 'Elder's ' dream time legends that there were other people in Australia when the Aboriginals first waves arrived and that they wiped them out.

Comparison of the mitochondrial DNA of Mungo Man with that of ancient and modern Aborigines has indicated that Mungo Man is not related to Australian Aborigines. If this is true, the implications for the origins of human colonisation in Australia are huge.

http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=44260

The tall dark red slender and elegant people painted in the era known as Bradshaw can be elaborate and with flowing garments and bracelets. The Aboriginal people call these paintings 'Gwion Gwions'. Age of Bradshaw paintings is estimated at between 17,000 and 60,000 years and well and truly pre dates ancient civilisations. The earliest discovered civilisation of Mesoptamia has been dated at around 3,500 year ago, and ancient Egyptian civilisation around 3,200 years ago with the pyramids of Giza being dated at around 2,700 – 2,500 year old. They were named after Joseph Bradshaw, the first European person to describe them in 1891. These paintings are possibly the oldest rock paintings in the world, with the earliest known cave paintings in Europe being dated between 18,000 and 10,000 years old.

[crystal sage]

some more here... note the egg heads... Egyptian style headdresses http://www.bradshawf...w_paintings.php .. http://www.creatives...-gwion-rock-art

and similar ancient art work in Timor where allegedly some of the aboriginals arrived from 60000 years ago..

Edited June 11, 2014 by crystal sage

[crystal sage]

.

The Lena Hara cave is the main cave of a system of solutional caves in the Lautém District at the eastern tip of East Timor (Timor-Leste), close to the village of Tutuala. Others are Ile Kére Kére and Jerimalai. It has provided evidence that Timor has been occupied by humans for 30-35,000 years^[1] and thus is evidence of the colonisation of humans making the water crossing of Wallacea between the Pleistocene continents of Sunda and Sahul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lene_Hara_cave

[crystal sage]

... http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/exhibition/objectsthroughtime-history/50000-years-before-present/

But before 50,000 years ago humans would still have faced a voyage across fifty miles of open sea to get to Australia. They must have built sea craft strong enough to survive the voyage, a technological feat that went beyond making spears or lighting fires.

The first Aboriginal people arrived on the north west coast of Australia between 65,000 and 40,000 years ago. The archaeological evidence suggests that Aboriginal people had contact with Macassans and the people of southern Indonesia for the past two thousand years exchanging ideas, technology and culture. Aboriginal people eventually populated the entire continent of Australia developing a subsistence economy hunting birds, fish and animals and harvesting edible plants.

[crystal sage]

Seems like Australia wasn't hit by any of the ice ages... http://austhrutime.c...e_australia.htm

He argues the caves and steep valleys of the southwest provided important shelter from chilling winds.

"Whilst the temperature may be somewhat colder in that area, what the southwest offered to humans during the glacial maximum was protection from wind," he says.

A seasonal pattern?

Gilligan says it's early days for his theory that the cold drove humans to the southwest during the ice age, but the idea is also supported by evidence on hunting patterns.

He says Dr Richard Cosgrove of La Trobe University has found ice age remains of hunted wallaby in the area were more abundant in winter.

In other words, the colder the season, the more likely Aboriginal people were to live in the southwest.

While there is no actual evidence of ice age Aboriginal people living on the coast in the milder months during the ice age, they would have had abundant food in the form of fur seals and mutton birds, says Gilligan.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2007/2039661.htm

Underwater caves in sheltered bays could house a wealth of untapped pre-European archaeological treasures, say Australian researchers.

And people involved in coastal developments need to be more aware of the potential for disturbing this underwater heritage, they say.

Sydney-based archaeologist Cosmos Coroneos and colleagues will report on possible underwater sites in Sydney at the Australian Archaeology Conference at the University of Sydney next month.

"About 6000 years ago, the coast of Sydney was probably about 20-30 kilometres off shore," says Coroneos. "As the sea levels rose people retreated inland."

He says this means that there is probably a lot of evidence of Aboriginal occupation that is now under water.

Edited June 14, 2014 by crystal sage

[The_Spartan]

some more here... note the egg heads... Egyptian style headdresses http://www.bradshawf...w_paintings.php .. http://www.creatives...-gwion-rock-art

and similar ancient art work in Timor where allegedly some of the aboriginals arrived from 60000 years ago..

it is interesting to note that the cave art from timor is similar to the cave art of Pedra Furada in the Serra Da Capivara National park in Barazil, which hints at a pre-clovis settlement.

[+DieChecker]

it is interesting to note that the cave art from timor is similar to the cave art of Pedra Furada in the Serra Da Capivara National park in Barazil, which hints at a pre-clovis settlement.

It is also similar to the art my 3 year old and 6 year old do. And most all other children... Without any training.

These rock art all look similar because humans all think roughly the same, and so would start artworks at roughly the same skill level and appearance.

[Harte]

The only real similarity I see is that both are painted with ochre.

Harte

[jaylemurph]

Yeah, it's really noticeable that the bodies of one group are almost circular while in the other one, they're almost square. Tha's a fundamentally different way of depiction, and makes the idea that they're similar very questionable. Bit like saying all skyscrapers are square and pointy, so they were all designed by one man.

--Jaylemurph

[The_Spartan]

dang! you two wont let me have a try at being a Pseudo-whatever-ian. (Maybe i am bad a it because i always don't believe every crap that is posted)

Next time! if i find a big circle, i would bring it up as evidence for Atlantis too.

[Harte]

So you're not much of a painter, then?

So what.

You have other strengths.

[Mr Supertypo]

I think that maybe on reason for the Aboriginals to settle in Australia may have been political. The settlers may have been a tribe or tribes who were exiled after they lost a war or wars with other tribes? Then the other groups on the asian mainland went extinct for some reason, while the Australian settler because of the exodus did not.

People emigrate because of need not because of joy.

[kartikg]

How long does it take to sail this distance . What did they eat on the way and what did they drink. And how did aborigines reached Australia?

[The_Spartan]

How long does it take to sail this distance . What did they eat on the way and what did they drink. And how did aborigines reached Australia?

they hugged the coast, island hopped and walked too, for much of the Sunda and Sahul shelves were above current sea levels in those ancient times.,

And they ate whatever was edible.

If one ate something that didn't agree with their stomach, the others made a note to avoid eating the same stuff again.

if one ate something and kicked the bucket, they buried him & carried on with their life/journey.

Edited June 28, 2014 by The_Spartan

[Harte]

How long does it take to sail this distance . What did they eat on the way and what did they drink. And how did aborigines reached Australia?

I doubt that they set out to reach Australia, nor was the migration due to a single instance of anything (like politics.)

They spread out. Eventually, they spread into Australia.

That's how these things usually work. It shouldn't be looked at as if they just packed up and moved to Australia.

Harte

[toyomotor]

Modern thinking on the migration of the first Australians out of Africa is that they made their way south along the Indonesian Archipelago, which at the time was predominently land. Any water to have been crossed would have been pretty shallow.

See Hartes comment on this.

[+DieChecker]

I doubt that they set out to reach Australia, nor was the migration due to a single instance of anything (like politics.)

They spread out. Eventually, they spread into Australia.

That's how these things usually work. It shouldn't be looked at as if they just packed up and moved to Australia.

Harte

I agree!

It is the way of humans. Some form a settlement of some kind, then when their numbers double, a group goes further down the coast. Repeat thousands of times, and the population gets into North and South America and Australia.

Edited June 29, 2014 by DieChecker

[DKO]

Similar to how metropolitan areas spread out with population growth. "Too many people here. Let's move on."

[jaylemurph]

I doubt that they set out to reach Australia, nor was the migration due to a single instance of anything (like politics.)

They spread out. Eventually, they spread into Australia.

That's how these things usually work. It shouldn't be looked at as if they just packed up and moved to Australia.

Harte

"Hey Grog, you know what sucks?"

"No, Thag, what sucks?"

"Life. Living. Grog no like no more."

"Thag think Grog should move to island to South. Thag think Grog maybe posioned by duck-billed platypus, or mawled by Koala Bear. Maybe bit by big-ass spiders or one of many poisonous snakes. Or kicked by kangaroo. Or get eaten by giant, savage shark. Thag think every living thing on island inimical to human life. Grog not live there long."

"Grog actually no mind life so much now. Grod no go South."

--Jaylemurph

[PersonFromPorlock]

How long does it take to sail this distance . What did they eat on the way and what did they drink. And how did aborigines reached Australia?

"How long" doesn't really limit groups: some people die, others are born, if each one moves five miles in a lifetime, eventually the group gets there.

Now, if you mean 'how long did it take them to sail between islands, the answer is 'not very long'. Even at current sea levels, I don't think there's an unavoidable water gap greater than a hundred miles between Africa and Australia.

Edited June 29, 2014 by PersonFromPorlock

[calaf]

rafts? or boat?

Not that one!

[Harte]

Even at current sea levels, I don't think there's an unavoidable water gap greater than a hundred miles between Africa and Australia.

Before the end of the last Ice Age:

There's no scale on that, so here's a link top a present-day map of Indonesia with scale: link

Harte