Homosexuality, sin, choice or biology?

[Irrelevant]

lets let him speek..

[Odin11]

before anybody says another word id enchourage you shadow ( who has never been short of a word) , for HIM to tell us again in HIS words about how children can have sex with there parents??...

I have read every post in that topic, you are deliberately taking his words out of content.

[Arbenol]

lets let him speek..

You know exactly what you're doing here. I'd take PA's advice, if I were you.

[Frank Merton]

The fact that an ideology tries to deny science -- in this case by suggesting that we control or have "free will" over our sexual orientation (about as outrageous as asserting that we can control whether to grow testicles or not) disqualifies that ideology as something to pay attention to.

[+Link of Hyrule]

lets let him speek..

He did. Read THIS POST from the Pope Francis thread. He replied directly to you when you levelled the same accusation at him. Considering that, I won't have this forum being used to slander people, even people I tend to argue with. So drop it. It's over.

~ Paranoid Android (Forum Mod. Team)

[hellig heilige]

Let me ask you something. Since the vast majority of humans are hetroexual and can thus 'fulfil that biological purpoe' does it really matter if the rest do not? And if it does, than why? After all even among those capable of breeding, that doesn't mean they will.

Jor el, there's more to life than just having children, far more.

Jesus is a an excellent example of one of those people who are capable of breeding but did not. You got that right, there's more to life.................................................

[Irrelevant]

If you go back to his comments, you'll note that his comment was referring to an adult child - in other words, two consenting adults, if they happen to be related that's between them. I don't agree with that sentiment either, but intimating that shadowhive is a paedophile is unwarranted, and I'm asking you now to stop the false allegations.

It's fair to say that I've argued with shadowhive more often than probably any other person on UM. I think you'll find you were mistaken that he claimed to be a girl. In all the time I've debated with him he's only ever declared that he's a male. You'll have to pull up the specific post that says otherwise because I've never seen it.

and you never answered that question ..about whether or not you will happily be sermonised to in your anglican faith by the new homosexual pastors and taught jesus was gay..as that is what they teach!, ive seen this with my own eyes as i do interfaith..

so what are you going to choose PA? are you going to stay Anglican be sermonised to by a gay or lesbian pastor and taught some new truth..that Jesus was gay??

to the gay who suggested im condecending..no, i talk straight to you when needed. this is my way of showing you respect!..if i was like the others youd find id be accused of hiding myself and my true thoughts like shadow did to the others..you cant have it both ways. If you want me to be nicer i will, but i will still talk straight!, i will just use a little more love as you ask... i point out that i wont judge you except explain what you say back and reveal the truth of yourself to you, at times i will use a teaching or symbolism, accept it or reject it..but if you want more love ..i can do love!! I am soft and gentle, but only to those who need that. Shadow dosnt need that, he abuses that love when its shown to him.

[hellig heilige]

Was Jesus gay because He didn't have children? Was He gay because He didn't condemn homosexuality?

[Irrelevant]

Do what you want PA...but do it quickly!. consenting adults is no excuse for his words..theres many things that lead upto that! its called experimenting..the day i stand by and have somebody tell me theres nothing wrong with those words is the day im happy to nologer be in such a group! if the mods here accept this is a rightful course for society then cut me loose..

[+Link of Hyrule]

and you never answered that question ..about whether or not you will happily be sermonised to in your anglican faith by the new homosexual pastors and taught jesus was gay..as that is what they teach!, ive seen this with my own eyes as i do interfaith..

so what are you going to choose PA? are you going to stay Anglican be sermonised to by a gay or lesbian pastor and taught some new truth..that Jesus was gay??

I'm not "Anglican". The faith that I believe in is Christianity, it is not confined to a single earthly denomination. I do attend an Anglican church but that doesn't make me "Anglican". I could just as easily attend a Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, or any one of a dozen non-denominational churches (and many denominations I haven't probably named).

And I didn't answer the question before because I thought I had addressed it. If the Anglican system in Australia were to adopt the liberal attitude of the Church of England, I'd find a new church that stayed true to the Bible.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Paranoid Android

[hellig heilige]

Go on Shadow, tell us again in your own words about how incesst is right...enlighten the UM community about what you hold true in this regard..

Do you know Noah married his sister?

[+Link of Hyrule]

Do what you want PA...but do it quickly!. consenting adults is no excuse for his words..theres many things that lead upto that! its called experimenting..the day i stand by and have somebody tell me theres nothing wrong with those words is the day im happy to nologer be in such a group! if the mods here accept this is a rightful course for society then cut me loose..

I don't agree with the sentiment, I don't think two people who are related by blood (siblings, parent-child, etc) should under any circumstance engage in sexual relations, even if they are "consenting adults". However, you know very well that my comments to you had nothing to do with that, but rather false and erroneous allegations made towards another member. So don't play the victim and pretend that my comments were about something else than what they actually were.

[Ratte]

to the gay who suggested im condecending..no, i talk straight to you when needed. this is my way of showing you respect!..if i was like the others youd find id be accused of hiding myself and my true thoughts like shadow did to the others..you cant have it both ways. If you want me to be nicer i will, but i will still talk straight!, i will just use a little more love as you ask... i point out that i wont judge you except explain what you say back and reveal the truth of yourself to you, at times i will use a teaching or symbolism, accept it or reject it..but if you want more love ..i can do love!! I am soft and gentle, but only to those who need that. Shadow dosnt need that, he abuses that love when its shown to him.

When you said "to the gay", was that a typo? Hehe, b'cause I'm pansexual.

Shadowhive doesn't abuse anything (except maybe his keyboard because he's logged a lot of posts on here). Not from what I've seen, anyway. He's friendly until textually assaulted.

You say you talk straight and yet you leave so many questions unanswered and have targeted someone I respect for seemingly no reason.

So far, my posts have been pretty tame. I've been fairly nice. You should look back at some of the arguments I've gotten into on this topic in other threads. I can be one mean son of a gun when I want to.

[Space Commander Travis]

I tuned in to this thread expecting it to provide as much... entertainment ... as this topic usually brings up when anyone brings the question of Religion into it. And I wasn't disappointed. My word, people do have some... imaginative ideas, don't they.

[Space Commander Travis]

Was Jesus gay because He didn't have children? Was He gay because He didn't condemn homosexuality?

Really, thinking that what Jesus may have said about any particular issue should be any basis to construct a faith called "Christianity"? What an old fashioned way of thinking. Don't you know that what Jesus may have said about anything has nothing to do with modern, thrusting, go-ahead Christianity?

[shadowhive]

Irrelevent I'll not dignify that with a response since you are obviously inacapable of understanding. I made several statements about consenting adults which, because it doesn't suit you, you ignored altogether. So slander away. It only shows you're an idiot

And the reason I didn't respond sooner was i was doing this biological need know as sleeping.

Edited June 3, 2013 by shadowhive

[shadowhive]

And HOLY COW! Shadowhive is gay? Dude! I wish I'd known sooner. I hope he looks like his avi. Grell is scrumptious. Yet... You seem to think he'd prefer Ciel.

I'm bi (well, pan, but I usually just go with bi so I don't have to go through the explanation), but yeah Aww thanks, Grell is and I wish I looked like him!

Edited June 3, 2013 by shadowhive

[Almagest]

Jesus is a an excellent example of one of those people who are capable of breeding but did not. You got that right, there's more to life.................................................

Isaac Newton is another good example. He was more obsessed with Motion and Alchemy than women and we remember him. Not so much his younger brother Stephen 'the philanderer' Newton who left countless b******* in his wake.

[shadowhive]

When you said "to the gay", was that a typo? Hehe, b'cause I'm pansexual.

Shadowhive doesn't abuse anything (except maybe his keyboard because he's logged a lot of posts on here). Not from what I've seen, anyway. He's friendly until textually assaulted.

My keyboad does seems in bad shape But yeah, that is very true.

You say you talk straight and yet you leave so many questions unanswered and have targeted someone I respect for seemingly no reason.

So far, my posts have been pretty tame. I've been fairly nice. You should look back at some of the arguments I've gotten into on this topic in other threads. I can be one mean son of a gun when I want to.

Yeah, when people have addressed his points he pulls the stunt of flat out ignoring them altogether and continues to rant. I've replied to about three or four of his posts and he's done that, so there's really no point expecting a sane discussion.

Thanks

And thanks to theothers too. It's nice to see a few people have sanity, especially with someone like him

[shadowhive]

He did. Read THIS POST from the Pope Francis thread. He replied directly to you when you levelled the same accusation at him. Considering that, I won't have this forum being used to slander people, even people I tend to argue with. So drop it. It's over.

~ Paranoid Android (Forum Mod. Team)

Honestly, I don't know how he could keep missing that, especially since he brings up anything else I said in that thread.

But thanks. I've enaged with you a lot and I can't say I've ever really see you pull your mod hat before. So thanks, I appreciate it.

Edited June 3, 2013 by shadowhive

[Ratte]

I'm bi, but yeah Aww thanks, Grell is and I wish I looked like him!

That is exciting news! I'll keep the flirting to a minimum... For your sake. I'd go for looking like Shizuo from Durarara if I had the choice!

[shadowhive]

That is exciting news! I'll keep the flirting to a minimum... For your sake. I'd go for looking like Shizuo from Durarara if I had the choice!

Aww thanks That did make me smile (which is good after seeing what that idiot said), and are free to do so by pm if you want to I had to google him since I wasn't familiar with him but ngh, good choice.

[Mr Walker]

I was influenced in starting this thread due to an ongoing debate on the subject of Homosexuality and how the church sees this form of sexuality

Yet there are a number of things stated by individuals that need to be clarified.

1st, is homosexuality really a sin as seen by the church or is it merely a fallacious interpretation of the bible?

2nd Can homosexuality be a sin if it is determined by biology and or genetics?

3rd can we consider homosexuality a sin if it is not in fact determined by biology and or genetics, but is merely a choice based on inclination due to society and or sexual imprinting?

If our sexuality is in in any way determined by biology and or genetics, then I think one cannot consider it a sin since a sin as we classify it is an action made by choice on following a specific path or action, if it is actually embedded in our very fabric, we can no more judge it than we can judge people for breathing, but if it is a sociological factor that determines sexuality, can it then be considered a sin?

Your thoughts are welcome...

In modern society, neither homosexuality per se, nor homosexaul acts are a sin, if they have no other harmful consequences. Homosexuality is a genetic difference from the norm of human sexuality, in that the norm of human sexuality is evolved to reproduce humanity. That makes life hard for the 5% or so of people who are born homosexual, genetically. Such people need love, support, compassion and "protection ", more than the average citizen, because of their statistical scarcity and thus minority status. They are more vulnerable, as statistics in health and many other areas prove. Other wise they require the same human rights and protections as every citizen.

Not all homosexual behaviour is genetic. As with all sexual behaviour, some is a product of likes, preferences, pleasures, opportunity, etc. Inherently, in a modern world, homosexual acts of choice are not sinful, again unless they cause harm by their nature or their consequences. Anything we do which knowingly harms ourself or an other is a sin, because it his harmful to the wondrous entity that is a human being.

IN any case it is not the role of one human to judge another except, again, where one human harms another. Humans in a civil/secular society DO have the right to regulate behaviour which causes harm, including sexual behaviour There are many sexual practices which cause harm and require regulation. This might include some homosexual practices but certainly also includes many hetero sexual ones.

For example there have been a number of cases where heterosexuals and homosexuals have been charged with knowingly having unprotected sex with others, when they are carrying serious STDs, but tell their partners they are safe, or say nothing at all. This is considered a form of assault, even if the sex itself is consensual, because it can cause harm ranging up to death..

[Irrelevant]

its funny, they can say whatever they like about God, about jesus, about those in the bible...and we christians have to sit and listen to there mindless dribble..time and time again..there basless arguments, but you call em on it, give only a fraction back or just repeat there words back and hold on! when are you going to stop insulting christians shadow and others?? athiests included...no, we sit and have to listen to your tripe... invading our threads and insulting our instituions...if your better or smartter or know more offer a greatter teaching than Jesus did, offer a greater life course..,or even defeat my points in this thread..your not born gay..sorry thats rubbish and you know it.. .the only thing gays represent is there own backsides..oh , is that offensive? refere to my previous statements..slander be dammed. thats dribble..

[Rlyeh]

Irrelevant, to be fair you do believe mindless dribble after all.