Homosexuality, sin, choice or biology?

[Mr Walker]

And it can be something for other then procreating. As you show with your beautiful story it can be expressed in many ways, the intimacy that comes from just being with each other is just as viable and important as procreation too. As humans we seek ways to strengthen our bonds on an emotional level too. There is no place like being in the arms of the one you love the bonds that stem from this are beyond words. IMO, this is universal. I am sure you can agree MW that while sex can lead to the joy of parenthood it contributes to other things as well, that even in asexuality as your wife and you have found yourselves in doesn't make you or her less intimate or loving with a each other, it still nurtures your love for each other. It saddens my heart to read that some of the posters think that because one does not procreate they are worthless on a biological level.Thank you for sharing your story maybe it will help others see that human sexuality serves many purposes.

Thanks Sherapy it has helped me to live in a three generational family as a child with a grandmother who lived celibate for nearly 40 years after her husband died when she was about 60, and to have spent a lot of time with, and caring for, elderly people. Now most of my family and friends are what you would call "elderly" and even I am approaching pension age (violins playing in the background)

To some older people sex is still important, but for ALL, companionship, caring, love and tenderness, family etc. are critical.

[spiritualghosthaunting]

And you are willing to ignore facts to do so, yes I have seen this.

From "Night of the Iguana".

"But why do you call it dirty? Nothing human disgusts me, Mr. Shannon. Unless it's unkind or violent. In fact, I've discovered something to believe in. What? Broken barriers between two people. A wanting to help to help each other. Through nights like this. One-night communications between them. On a veranda, outside their separate cubicles. I'm not thin-skinned, Mr. Shannon. I'm not a bird. I'm a human being. And when one of that unique species builds its nest in the heart of another, the questions of permanence and propagation aren't the first, or even the last things to be considered. What is important is that one is never alone".

[Irrelevant]

You shall get plenty of sympathy for my actions from the Christians, of this I knew beforehand, Christians, the ones you attack! Learn from this and be better for it.stop your attack, you will quickly learn all I do is show you yourselves, today you saw a attack, Wasn't nice was it? However if your heart is hurt I can pray for you..when you go to the spirit world you will go to where you feel comfortable in the end, if you harbor hate it will block your path, this is why Christians forgive. Let it go.. Take care.

[shadowhive]

You shall get plenty of sympathy for my actions from the Christians, of this I knew beforehand, Christians, the ones you attack! Learn from this and be better for it.stop your attack, you will quickly learn all I do is show you yourselves, today you saw a attack, Wasn't nice was it? However if your heart is hurt I can pray for you..when you go to the spirit world you will go to where you feel comfortable in the end, if you harbor hate it will block your path, this is why Christians forgive. Let it go.. Take care.

No, the christians I'd get sympathy from aren't the ones I attack. The ones I attack are ones like you and your actions have been an extremely good demonstration as to why. I do wonder though, why you can't get it that I'm not attacking ALL christians despite me saying that many times.

Do you think that the attack you led against me is the first I've faced from people like you? It's not and it's why I'm so against people like you. Because one minute you're leading smear campaign, the next you're encouraging violence against us.

My 'heart is hurt', but I'm used to it from people like you. Your prayers are not required because they would be insincere. If you didn't want to 'hurt my heart' you could have, I don't know, not done it in the first place.

You've demonstrated a lack of concern for me before, so I fail to see any genuine concern in your words now.

[Mr Right Wing]

I'm not going to separate this into sections this time.

I'm getting upset. You keep attacking Shadowhive, twisting his words. "If they are two consenting adults" does not imply one would have sex with their own children. I'm fairly certain(and correct me if I'm wrong, hun) that he and I are in the same mind on this; if two concenting adults who are related wanna do it, that is their business, not ours. Now you're attacking PA, who, even though I don't agree with, has been nothing but nice to me in my three+ years here and is - HELLO - a moderator with the power to boot you from this site.

And yes! Yes, Christians do go into other threads and do that! So do Athiests, Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Muslims- anyone with a point to prove, really.

The section of the forum we are in is called "Spirituality vs Scepticism". We have every right to have these back and forths. People do grow angry when being talked down to, you know. Then people return with words of venom and it turns into a fight.

But, you sir, have ignored many of my questions. I'd be more inclined to be polite if you would answer them.

And don't get me started on children as accessories! Angelina Jolie. Snooki. Michael Jackson.

Just... Quit attacking Shadowhive. Just stop.

Last night you admitted you're into into men, women, shemales and transgenders.

Can I ask if you have any fetishes which regular people wouldnt associate with sex? (shoes, suffocation, cars, etc).

[shadowhive]

Last night you admitted you're into into men, women, shemales and transgenders.

Can I ask if you have any fetishes which regular people wouldnt associate with sex? (shoes, suffocation, cars, etc).

Why does it matter to you who someone is attracted to you? It doesn't effect you any more than a fellow straight man being attracted to a woman you feel no attraction to does.

Fetishes, by their very nature are pretty subjective and personal things as such fetishes aren't really all that regular. (I don't see why Rette or anyone else should tell you what their fetishes are, especially if you'd likely find something to ridicule them over.)

[Mr Right Wing]

Why does it matter to you who someone is attracted to you? It doesn't effect you any more than a fellow straight man being attracted to a woman you feel no attraction to does.

Fetishes, by their very nature are pretty subjective and personal things as such fetishes aren't really all that regular. (I don't see why Rette or anyone else should tell you what their fetishes are, especially if you'd likely find something to ridicule them over.)

The aim isnt to ridicule its to get a better understanding of his condition.

Different types of fetish are indicative of underlying problems. For instance those with an obsession over being dominated usually had a controlling parent.

[shadowhive]

The aim isnt to ridicule its to get a better understanding of his condition.

Different types of fetish are indicative of underlying problems. For instance those with an obsession over being dominated usually had a controlling parent.

It seems your aim isn't to understand either and I think that's been pretty obvious with your language and attitude. Take there, you want to know hius fetishes so you can call them a condition and label them as being the result of problems.

Also most fetishes can't be so easily catergorised. I have a fetish for men with a Welsh accent. What underlying problem caused that in your mind?

I have to wonder why you think that and why you have a desire to labelling everything a problem.

Edited June 4, 2013 by shadowhive

[Irrelevant]

I think this is a valid question, it pertains to origins if the innate desires, it's simple psychology cause=effect

[shadowhive]

I think this is a valid question, it pertains to origins if the innate desires, it's simple psychology cause=effect

If one man is attracted to blonde women and another is attracted to brunette women do we try and find out why? Does it really matter? Why does it here?

(And I'd like an apology that does contain the word sorry at some point, if not for your behaviour than at least for the implication that I was a pedohile or supported it which maintained for a long time)

[Irrelevant]

It's a valid question to ask, as for apology, by labeling people under a umbrella masthead of "Christians" you attacked innocent, just by using a label, how do you know they were Christians, and not anti gay activists, wouldn't that be a better description?

[shadowhive]

It's a valid question to ask, as for apology, by labeling people under a umbrella masthead of "Christians" you attacked innocent, just by using a label, how do you know they were Christians, and not anti gay activists, wouldn't that be a better description?

I had a feeling it'd be too much to ask. Pity, considering the viciousness of your words.

I'll refer to you to the dozens of posts where I've stated my position on christians. If you cannot see I've not attacked the innocent by now then there's nothing else I can say.

[Frank Merton]

It's pretty obvious to me, as a non-Christian heterosexual man, that Christianity is much like Islam, containing much that is hateful and harmful to others. In fact it is hard to find any saving grace in it, and the hatefulness and irrationality in defending the illogicalities of an ancient magic book that I read above tends to confirm my view. I want nothing to do with it.

[Space Commander Travis]

The aim isnt to ridicule its to get a better understanding of his condition.

Different types of fetish are indicative of underlying problems. For instance those with an obsession over being dominated usually had a controlling parent.

Ah, Dr. Freud will see you now.

Or perhaps that was misspelled and should have been Dr. Fraud.

[Irrelevant]

But your using a vast label to describe the actions of a few. Do you think that's appropriate?

[Frank Merton]

My understanding is that SM derives from animal instincts of dominance and submission that keep social groups unified, and it sometimes in some people has a sexual component, although in most it shows up as empire building or desire for political control or following an ideological or religious cult with submissive fervor.

[shadowhive]

But your using a vast label to describe the actions of a few. Do you think that's appropriate?

What I said was this:

I am not against christians. I am against a belief that some christians hold. I have made that very clear. I have also made it clear that I am against the belief if any other religious person holds it too.

But I fully expect you'll ignore it and fully expect not to recieve an apology. It's just who you are.

[Irrelevant]

So frank, you believe this is environmental? Is this your opinion, or is it biological.

[Irrelevant]

But your still using labels shadow, particularly labeling Christians, there's many form of Christians, can you be more specific?

[Frank Merton]

Who knows. It doesn't matter. If a person chooses to have sex with one of their own sex or it is genetically mapped for him or her (which had the better scientific basis), it doesn't matter. That I choose to eat green beans and my wife prefers broccoli is on the same level.

[shadowhive]

But your still using labels shadow, particularly labeling Christians, there's many form of Christians, can you be more specific?

Christian is a label yes... but it's the one christians label themselvs with, so it's the appropriate one to use when refering to them. The belief that homosexuality is a sin is one many christians believe in, so to list every specific faction that uses it (and encourages negative action based on it) would be too time consuming and unwieldy.

I've stated what my thinking on christians is. I have stated it clearly and numerous times. If you want to ignore it (like you did when I mentioned the words consenting adults previously) that is your issue and yours alone.

[Irrelevant]

So your saying you don't know Frank? And that it didn't matter anyway? except it shows up as a form of empire building or in a religious cult? Can you name any religious cults that are, specifically practising SM since making such claim? I'm not aware of any

[Irrelevant]

So your saying shadow that Christian beliefs have harmed you, can you elaborate in how exactly they have harmed you? What was the nature if this harm?

[Irrelevant]

I will refer back to you Frank, about choosing to eat green beans, are you suggesting there is a choice, because the claim is there is no choice, it's biological.

[Setton]

There is nothing manly about a guy in a dress, mincing around and speaking in a high pitched voice.

All masculinity has been lost and replaced with feminity!

Firstly, you plainly don't even know what homosexulality is.

Secondly, if you think wearing a dress means you lose all masculinity, tell it to these guys and look what they're wearing: