NSA Requests ALL Phone Records From Verizon

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

Am I the only one fascinated by the fact that this thread runs five pages in United States and the Americas, but yet there's nothing about it in Conspiracies?

I guess it's more fun to talk about 9/11, the Moon, Monstanto, the Bilderbergs, the Illuminati, the Masons, the Jeeewwwsss, and everything else than real, proven conspiracies.

I disagree, it's not the fun aspect that is keeping the subject from moving the conspiracy theory area.. It is because this is Conspiracy Fact.

Why would Conspiracy Fact belong in the Conspiracy Theory area?

Here is the fact: Our elected officials conspired to take away certain rights guaranteed to us by our constitution.

Moving on to the next thing...

Even more alarming is that they are defending this act of war upon their citizens.

Source: http://thehill.com/b...n-phone-records

Source: http://abcnews.go.co...94#.UbH0G9K1GE0

Edited June 7, 2013 by xFelix

[Frank Merton]

If I understood the posts on this thread correctly, the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution says that Americans cannot be spied on by the government without a specific court order, and that what has been happening seems to be in violation.

I also see that there seems to be no restriction on the power of the US government to spy on foreigners outside the US.

I really don't see how this could possibly be workable as a practical matter. How does one spy on the foreigner but not the American when they are talking to each other? It also seems a rather excessive requirement -- investigators must go to a court during their investigation?

I can see people not liking being spied on, and I suppose there are privacy issues that need protecting where authorities are not entitled to know certain things, but we are talking here about protecting the population from catastrophes like someone blowing up a nuclear device or releasing a deadly disease.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

If I understood the posts on this thread correctly, the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution says that Americans cannot be spied on by the government without a specific court order, and that what has been happening seems to be in violation.

I also see that there seems to be no restriction on the power of the US government to spy on foreigners outside the US.

I really don't see how this could possibly be workable as a practical matter. How does one spy on the foreigner but not the American when they are talking to each other? It also seems a rather excessive requirement -- investigators must go to a court during their investigation?

I can see people not liking being spied on, and I suppose there are privacy issues that need protecting where authorities are not entitled to know certain things, but we are talking here about protecting the population from catastrophes like someone blowing up a nuclear device or releasing a deadly disease.

Are we really?

The NSA is who wants these pieces of information, the same agency who knew that 9/11 was going to happen but refused to act on that intelligence.

Now knowing that they can have the information and will not necessarily prevent these incidents, would you dare say the same again?

This is not about preventing anything, this is about psychological warfare on the American Population. They have taken an approach equivocal with "We want you to know we are taking your rights away. We want you to know that you have no privacy, even in your own home, on your own phone or computer. We want you to know that their is no longer Doctor-Patient confidentiality or Husband-Wife confidentiality. We rule supreme, and the civilians must OBEY".

Edited June 7, 2013 by xFelix

[MissMelsWell]

The Patriot Act and the DHS. The Republicans created and used it, the Democrats have used it. The citizens HATE it... let's get rid of it.

[Blink4567]

Only one day at a time. Their strategy is to make us feel helpless, it comes off as harmless. Then they tag us like cattle, and after they casually herd us from the pasture into the cattle shoots. When we get here, they herd us along one by one into either isolation to "milk" us of everything that makes us us, or to the slaughter house deeming us as human beings "unworthy". Tic Toc...

Edited June 7, 2013 by Jessem

[Drayno]

Orwellian nightmare, much?

[Blink4567]

Orwellian nightmare, much?

Thats exactly what going on...

[Drayno]

Thats exactly what going on...

Any one who scoffed at the notion of tyranny from our government is surely getting a hot cup of "I told you so" thrown in their face.

[Blink4567]

Any one who scoffed at the notion of tyranny from our government is surely getting a hot cup of "I told you so" thrown in their face.

How do you mean... exactly?

[Drayno]

How do you mean... exactly?

I've dealt with many skeptics in real life who have called my views disgusting because I warned that history often repeats itself in the form of over-zealous governments. And then this and a plethora of other signs become blatant to the public.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Kafkaesque

[Blink4567]

I've dealt with many skeptics in real life who have called my views disgusting because I warned that history often repeats itself in the form of over-zealous governments. And then this and a plethora of other signs become blatant to the public.

I've known the same thing kafka. History usually always repeats itself. After just taking american history in college, and my professor who studied under and worked under many historians at one of the best research colleges in america, and is one herself, it's crystal clear.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Jessem

[NiteMarcher]

Our government loves to waste money by creating agencies all of over the place. You have CIA, NSA, TSA, FBI, IRS etc., etc...

Everyone seems to be checking on each other and none can fully be trusted, no, not one.

[Drayno]

I've known the same thing kafka. History usually always repeats itself. After just taking american history in college, and my professor who studied under and worked under many historians at one of the best research colleges in america, and is one herself, it's crystal clear.

All I know is when the government is doing the opposite of the principles their oaths were founded upon, they're committing treason to the public and dishonoring public service. Those who rule get accustomed to the life style benefits while their main occupation is to use Machiavellian tactics to pass agendas that get them rich. Any one can pull out a book and read how Rome collapsed in on itself - or how the British Empire began to fragment after the American Revolution cost the British mainland America. Great nations or civilizations nearly always die from suicide. And it's a historically backed fact. Alexander the Great's Empire dissolved after his death and essentially committed suicide when the power was given over to Alexander's generals who divided the Empire.

When over-zealous politicians begin to undermine the rights of the people and incrementally set in place temporary laws or use bueraucratic red-tape to hide their true aims, overstepping laws like The Constitution, specifically parts of The Bill of Rights - that's a clear alarm. Of course, laws change as society changes - but that doesn't mean that all change is necessarily good. It may solve temporary problems, but almost all revolutions lead to the reinforcement and consolidation of the power for the state. The Left are becoming more showman-like about their abuses of civil rights, progressive propaganda commonc-core programs, and anti-Republican sentiments as they target Conservative groups and the Second Amendment. Not to say that I agree with the Republican party. They're a complete mess right now, as well. Most of them are fairly incompetent when it comes to a woman's right to her body, for example.

Our government loves to waste money by creating agencies all of over the place. You have CIA, NSA, TSA, FBI, IRS etc., etc...

Everyone seems to be checking on each other and none can fully be trusted, no, not one.

Bueracracies are the tools of former facist-socialist / totalitarian governments; the attack dogs, the secret police, the private hammer of the impatient "Gods" in office. It's all so very sllly, in my opinion.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Kafkaesque

[Frank Merton]

It strikes me, constitutional issues aside, that the American government is doing exactly what it should do to protect its citizens after what has happened and the potential disasters that could happen. The posts above strike me as contrary to national safety and ultimately contrary to the freedom Americans seem to worship so much, and verging on irrational and contain absurd assertions. Be rational people and recognize you live in a dangerous world.

[Uncle Sam]

It strikes me, constitutional issues aside, that the American government is doing exactly what it should do to protect its citizens after what has happened and the potential disasters that could happen. The posts above strike me as contrary to national safety and ultimately contrary to the freedom Americans seem to worship so much, and verging on irrational and contain absurd assertions. Be rational people and recognize you live in a dangerous world.

The government is doing what it needs to do? By spying on individuals and giving them no privacy, we are faced with misuse by government officials who can and will use that information to control you. For a government to effectively completely eliminate all dangers it would require controlling the media, eliminating our rights, herd the population, eliminate any potential threats, and prosecute individuals without trail. Now what does that sound like? That is pure socialist government where the government controls every aspect of our lives without facet of us being able to be creative, to speak freely, or to thrive without the crushing limitations set by the government. You know what else was a pure socialist government? Germany during WWII.

I am rational and I know we live in a dangerous world. The only role the government is to protect us from foreign dangers and that is it. With the introduce of NSA, CIA, Federal Government, and other entities designed by our government the scales of balance have been tipped heavily in the government favor if it came to an revolution. These entities are stripping away and destroying the very foundation our forefathers have set for our country. It is the states domain to protect us, to govern us, and to help us thrive as a community. The government's job is one job and that job is to protect the states and the people within the states from foreign threats. The states deal with the domestic threats, not any of the entities created to seize control from the states.

The states and the government are currently in a power struggle, to see who governments over the people of united states. With how docile and ill-informed the citizens are at the moment, the states are losing their rights as statehoods to the federal government. The NSA is stripping the citizens of their privacy and rights, taking out the ability to revolt against them. Federal government is keeping states from doing the job, making it where all federal mandates overrule any state mandate, which means no mayor of the state can go do their job without federal approval. Look at the problem of the border states, we can't even defend our borders because the Federal Government won't let the mayor mandate any new laws that will actually be effective.

We are faced with a government that is doing things not for the good of the citizens, but for the good of the government... we are faced with elite groups of individuals who control every asset and aspect of our lives day in and day out. Nothing about us is actually private anymore. We don't own anything in United States anymore. Not the money we earn, the land we live on, the food we eat, and even the cloths on our back isn't ours.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Uncle Sam

[Frank Merton]

This sort of thinking is just plain dumb. Your government is watching for terrorists. One of these days, if you guys keep them from doing their job, some US city is going to be destroyed in a nuclear event. It may happen anyway but it seems to me only good sense, when technology makes it possible, to pursue this sort of course.

[Uncle Sam]

This sort of thinking is just plain dumb. Your government is watching for terrorists. One of these days, if you guys keep them from doing their job, some US city is going to be destroyed in a nuclear event. It may happen anyway but it seems to me only good sense, when technology makes it possible, to pursue this sort of course.

We are more likely to have a nuclear strike on us from another nation using an intercontinental ballistic missile than by terrorists. Our nuclear facilities are heavily guarded, our nuclear stockpile is heavily guarded and deep underground, and our borders are heavily watched for any indication of nuclear material being crossed over. Every state and major city has radiation detection devices that can easily pinpoint any nuclear bomb within any major or minor city. We are looking at full around the clock watch for nuclear weapons or other WMDs within our borders that can be used. In case of an actual nuclear detonation, we have fallout shelters that are properly prepped and ready for the population to use, I know because I been inside one. We already have the safety devices in place that work and are already working 24/7 every day. This alone is enough to make sure American's and the government can deal with an any WMD scenario that happens. But here we have the government pushing more and more to take away our rights and liberties for more measures that are not even needed. And for you to say we should let them is the most insulting and ignorant statement I have ever heard. For this scenario to succeed with terrorists detonating nuclear bombs in United States would be near impossible. It is more likely for an comet to hit the Earth than for a nuclear bomb to be set off in United States by a terrorist. Only way for this to happen if it was completely ignored by the government and they let it happen.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

It strikes me, constitutional issues aside, that the American government is doing exactly what it should do to protect its citizens after what has happened and the potential disasters that could happen. The posts above strike me as contrary to national safety and ultimately contrary to the freedom Americans seem to worship so much, and verging on irrational and contain absurd assertions. Be rational people and recognize you live in a dangerous world.

Again, the same agency demanding these records is the same agency that knew about 9/11 and refused to act on the intelligence to save those thousands of lives.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/washington-spectator/nsa-analyst-we-could-have_b_1513494.html

Stating that these agencies will protect us, when already knowing that they have not done so in the past is more so absurd than blindly believing that they just will.

[Frank Merton]

Dear xFelix, your assertion about 9-11 is irrelevant and wrong. Without your assumption your conclusions collapse.

The world is in great danger of nuclear terrorism, and this danger will increase as technology advances. In the meantime there is considerable danger of other forms of terrorism. This is probably the way civilization will end. I think it is appropriate for all governments to identify possible perpetrators by whatever civilized means necessary.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

Dear xFelix, your assertion about 9-11 is irrelevant and wrong. Without your assumption your conclusions collapse.

The world is in great danger of nuclear terrorism, and this danger will increase as technology advances. In the meantime there is considerable danger of other forms of terrorism. This is probably the way civilization will end. I think it is appropriate for all governments to identify possible perpetrators by whatever civilized means necessary.

Wait did you just say I am wrong for "assuming" the NSA knew about 9/11 and not acting? In the same post where I posted the link where a man that worked for the NSA specifically says that they knew? This is a known fact, they knew. Politicians never denied the NSA's knowledge, they even acknowledge the incident and accredit it in part to "lack of communication".

You sir, are the one that is wrong. These agencies have had this technology for "seven years" now, and yet we still have mass shootings, and Boston bombings... So much for the use of the technology in protecting the public.

[Frank Merton]

You got a guy who says he worked for the NSA's testimony. Really impressive stupidity and gullibility. And the Boston event got through the net -- which proves what? Really you are just too much for me to believe really exists in this world.

In the meantime you are willing to stifle one of the few possibilities of stopping such things.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/washington-spectator/nsa-analyst-we-could-have_b_1513494.html

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/19/new_nsa_docs_reveal_911_truths/

http://911review.org/Reports/Hayden_NSA.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/hill-911-attacks.html

http://911blogger.com/news/2009-12-04/nsa-drafted-retrospective-911-failings-after-attacks

Now you mean to say all these separate accounts are wrong, I am stupid, and gullible?

Now you say I base my claims on one single incident?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Reza_Taheri-azar_SUV_attack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omeed_Aziz_Popal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack

I'm sure I missed quite a few.. but we get the point here...

[Babe Ruth]

No Frank, he ain't wrong.

Any honest person not afflicted with cognitive dissonance who studies the facts comes to the same conclusion, in general terms, that Felix does. The story does not wash, it cannot withstand even the most superficial scrutiny.

[Kowalski]

NSA whistleblower revealed as Edward Snowden, 29-year-old ex-CIA employee

The source of the intelligence leaks that revealed the National Security Agency's massive domestic surveillance program last week was identified on Sunday by the Guardian as Edward Snowden, a soft-spoken 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of NSA defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton.

Snowden, a Hawaii resident who was interviewed by the newspaper in his hotel room in Hong Kong where he is hiding, said he has no regrets about going public—even if he never sees his family again.

"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things," Snowden said. "I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under ... I can't in good conscience allow the U.S. government to destroy privacy, Internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building."

In a statement, Booz Allen confirmed Snowden "has been an employee of our firm for less than 3 months":

News reports that this individual has claimed to have leaked classified information are shocking, and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm. We will work closely with our clients and authorities in their investigation of this matter.

The White House declined to comment on the identification of the NSA leaker, according to a press pool report.

Snowden said he decided to leave his family, girlfriend and a comfortable, $200,000-a-year salary behind, and flew to Hong Kong on May 20. He said he chose China because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent."

The newspaper said it revealed Snowden's identity at his request, but that he is concerned it will become a distraction. "I don't want public attention because I don't want the story to be about me," Snowden said. "I want it to be about what the U.S. government is doing."

But he said he realizes that the government will come after him the same way they did with Bradley Manning, the former U.S. soldier who is currently on trial, accused of providing thousands of classified documents to WikiLeaks.

Taken from http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/snowden-nsa-leak-whistleblower-cia-204241311.html

What this man did was incredibly brave. I don't know many people who would have done the same, if they were in his position.

[Clarakore]

Any one who scoffed at the notion of tyranny from our government is surely getting a hot cup of "I told you so" thrown in their face.

Scoffing still.

Not many think this is the ultimate scandal or conspiracy theory either. Our security and intelligence apparatus is not proof of tyranny. Enjoy life or not is still everyone's choice. Being paanoid or not is still everyone's choice. Guess what some of us are choosing?