Gay Christians

[ChloeB]

As long as you take what me saying the bible being about life and put it into the context that you need it to be your discussion will hold water. Too bad it doesn't work like that. The bible is not "You die and go to heaven or hell". The book is about life. But hey, me talking to you about the bible is like me asking you questions about the Encyclopedia Britannica Issue 17 page 4. They have about the same meaning to you because you have about as much research invested into the bible as you do said Britannica issue.

I'd be very careful assuming you know how much research I've invested into the bible.

Now you say you had to find something as ridiculous as my response? What is your thought process on how we got here? If there is no god, it was a random factor of events, correct? So you are saying that this cannot happen elsewhere in the universe? A universe that you couldn't even begin to fathom the size of couldn't have this happen anywhere else? What I stated is that we are already a proven product of the universe. I think we could have similar shaped beings of some form in the vast universe. Sure why not.

Better rush over to Doodiepants.com and find some more material.

No, I'm not saying that can't happen anywhere else in the universe, but your argument and logic is if there's some aliens somewhere with 2 arms, 2 legs and a head, therefore that proves God looks that way, and man is created in God's image, literally a human-looking being. You sound like those ancient alien guys claiming gods were aliens.

[SpiritWriter]

no one knows god, your not more special than other Christians that he would preach a different message to you. know one is created gay, all aspects of a persons personality happen through choices and chance stimulants. if your friends were born blind they wouldn't of become gay and the eyes when added wouldn't make them genetically gay.

going to sleep as its late, if you are a Christian you will pray for me even though we disagreed.

Everyone is special including me I am blessed to know God although yes, he is a mystery and impossible to know in full. I will pray for you if thats what you wish i have no problem with that. Im actually glad for you because i dont get the opportunity to discuss these matters a lot with other christians. I am quieter in real life than i am on line. Don't think that god speaks to everyone the same, remember we are all parts of the same body, we are different but connected through God.

And also yes people are gay for real, not a curse, not a posession, it is who they are. You just arent familiar with it. Its unfair that they should be unaccapted to such a harsh degree from "Gods people".

[ChloeB]

all aspects of a persons personality happen through choices and chance stimulants.

Well congratulations, you've single-handedly solved the nature vs. nurture debate. Your Nobel prize awaits you.

[Ugly1]

I'd be very careful assuming you know how much research I've invested into the bible.

No, I'm not saying that can't happen anywhere else in the universe, but your argument and logic is if there's some aliens somewhere with 2 arms, 2 legs and a head, therefore that proves God looks that way, and man is created in God's image, literally a human-looking being. You sound like those ancient alien guys claiming gods were aliens.

Hey, I am quoting a book that you have now claimed to have researched regarding the created in his image. I did not say that because there may be another form similar to us in the Universe that this would mean god is built that way. The bible says that. Regarding the possibility that there is another form of life in the universe similarly built to a human having me come off as an ancient alien rambler. Ehhhhhh? I guess I missed the part of my post where I rambled about some Aliens coming and genetically altering humans or building pyramids.

Did your reading comprehension skills translate this well when you were doing all your studious research into the bible? I guess when you read Genesis 1:27 you were like, "Man this god guy sure sounds like an ancient alien theorist!". Please read this two or three times before you resort to posting more doodiepants content, or make up some more things to insinuate that I am trying to say something I am not.

[Ever Learning]

Well congratulations, you've single-handedly solved the nature vs. nurture debate. Your Nobel prize awaits you.

I notice you don't critise people who say they are born gay. whats your view on the nature verses nuture debate? just disagree with me but don't risk saying any ideas your self. obviously its not all nuture, its 4.26 in the morning, im reseeting my body clock, cut me some slack

[ChloeB]

Hey, I am quoting a book that you have now claimed to have researched regarding the created in his image. I did not say that because there may be another form similar to us in the Universe that this would mean god is built that way. The bible says that.

LOL you who tells me how little I've researched into the bible, but please quote me out of your book where it says "because there may be another form similar to us in the Universe that this would mean god is built that way."

[Zaphod222]

What god wants from your sex life is between you, your partner and God.

Well, that depends on the god, doesn´t it.

I.e. you get very different demands if your god, is Dionyses, Venus, or Allah...

[ChloeB]

I notice you don't critise people who say they are born gay. whats your view on the nature verses nuture debate? just disagree with me but don't risk saying any ideas your self. obviously its not all nuture, its 4.26 in the morning, im reseeting my body clock, cut me some slack

I do believe people are born gay. I do not believe every single gay person is born gay, but that doesn't really matter to me. I think we are complex creatures, nature vs. nurture are both factors. For example, you could have 2 people that lived identical lives (nurture), but turned out very differently, their innate temperament (nature) could be the explanation of why they were different. Take a psych class if you want it explained to you any further than that, but we aren't just born a blank slate like you're saying.

[Ugly1]

LOL you who tells me how little I've researched into the bible, but please quote me out of your book where it says "because there may be another form similar to us in the Universe that this would mean god is built that way."

Let me break it down for ya. Genesis 1:27 God created man in his own image, in the image of god he created him.

Now we are talking the happenstance that there is some being in the universe that turned out to look like a human. Okay, now let's put these two together. Bible says, we are created in gods image. We said, there may randomly be a human shaped being somewhere, due to the sheer size of our universe. Now if there was some being in the universe that looked like a human, we could also say that this random being was created in the image of god because it looks like a human and in the bible we are told that we are created in the image of god.

I bet jokes go over real well for you. Okay, so at first I had to say knock knock because typically when you knock you will knock more tha........

[ChloeB]

Let me break it down for ya. Genesis 1:27 God created man in his own image, in the image of god he created him.

Now we are talking the happenstance that there is some being in the universe that turned out to look like a human. Okay, now let's put these two together. Bible says, we are created in gods image. We said, there may randomly be a human shaped being somewhere, due to the sheer size of our universe. Now if there was some being in the universe that looked like a human, we could also say that this random being was created in the image of god because it looks like a human and in the bible we are told that we are created in the image of god.

I bet jokes go over real well for you. Okay, so at first I had to say knock knock because typically when you knock you will knock more tha........

LOL, just say you couldn't find the quote and back up what you said when I called you on it, that it's your own crackpot theory and be done with it. Goodnight.

[SpiritWriter]

Well, that depends on the god, doesn´t it.

I.e. you get very different demands if your god, is Dionyses, Venus, or Allah...

I guess so. But to me there is one ultimate god, either which way its still a private matter between you and your god

[Ugly1]

LOL, just say you couldn't find the quote and back up what you said when I called you on it, that it's your own crackpot theory and be done with it. Goodnight.

You are all over the place. If you look at my above post you will see I found the quote. Once again, your reading comprehension skills have proved themselves to be those of envy.

Regarding theory. Who said anything about a theory other than you? We are discussing the possibility of random events occurring in the universe and you are calling this a theory? Reading comprehension please.

Goodnight. Get some rest, your mind seems like it is not retaining much information.

[Zaphod222]

I do believe people are born gay. I do not believe every single gay person is born gay, but that doesn't really matter to me.

It matters a lot! If you seriously suggest that gayness is a matter of nurture, you are postulating that it is possible to educate people to be either gay or non-gay. Do you even realize the slippery slope you are on there? Of course, all sorts of wild-eyed religionists would jump on the chance to "cure" those with the incorrect sexual orientation by education.

Of course, every time this has been tried (i.e. by parents trying to change the gender identity of their children) this has failed disastrously.

So, yes, it matters if you make such bombastic claim.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Zaphod222

[Ugly1]

ChloeB, I think the question is relevant. How do you believe humans came into existence?

[Zaphod222]

I guess so. But to me there is one ultimate god, either which way its still a private matter between you and your god

Well, I am glad you are happy with your god. But realize that there are lots over very different gods out there.

[Arpee]

If people were to live their lives following their happiness instead of trying to get approval from everybody else, they'd live a more fulfilling life and eventually these other people that don't like them would just have to get over it.

If you are a gay Christians be a gay Christian. Religion is supposed to be a personal thing anyway (You and The Divine), if other people do not believe your true connection with The Divinity because you have a different take on religion / spirituality than them, then it doesn't matter. That is what faith is supposed to be.

[Amalthe]

I think you people are making mistake arguing about your personal views, is gay ok or not. But you should take more logical and factual stance in reviewing this topic.

First, we should establish some definitions, what actually means "being gay"?

From biological viewpoint, answer is simple, it represents sexual attraction to member of the same gender. To test it is also relatively simple, connect a (wo)man brain with wires and show him some nude pictured and measure activity in brain against is (s)he seeing male or female body.

So in essence, being gay constitues purely biological condition, maybe due to hormone levels which baby was exposed during pregnancy, maybe something else, doesn't matter. We can just assume male gay person has more sexual arousing receptors (lets call them SAR) for male body and vice versa for female gay.

So by pure logic, God cannot judge gay person only on basis of number of his (fe)male SARs, because it is not his/her choice.

But, on other hand, Bible states that indulging in sexual acts with same gender is a sin. If we consider that statement to be true, it means that gay person is not guilty for having sexual tension for someone (s)he likes, but caving in to tension and engaging in sexual act is then considered a sin. It would be perhaps similar if a straight person feels sexual tension to his married female friend or coworker, and tension by itself in not a sin, but caving in and having sex would be sin.

What about alcohol? Someone could argue persons who drink alcohol excessively have more alchohol pleasure receptors, so they have urge to drink it, which is ok, but caving in to urge is not ok, and bible states that fact also, excessive drinking is also a sin. Same could be argued for cigarettes (although they are not mentioned in Bible), or any type of biologically conditioned behaviour.

So what do you think?

Edited June 11, 2013 by Amalthe

[Zaphod222]

So by pure logic, God cannot judge gay person only on basis of number of his (fe)male SARs, because it is not his/her choice.

I am rubbing my eyes. You are trying to make some kind of theological argument by using LOGIC?

Since when has religion to do anything at all with logic?

It is kind of mind-boggling that you would even mix the two in one sentence.

[Arpee]

But, on other hand, Bible states that indulging in sexual acts with same gender is a sin. If we consider that statement to be true, it means that gay person is not guilty for having sexual tension for someone (s)he likes, but caving in to tension and engaging in sexual act is then considered a sin. It would be perhaps similar if a straight person feels sexual tension to his married female friend or coworker, and tension by itself in not a sin, but caving in and having sex would be sin.

What about alcohol? Someone could argue persons who drink alcohol excessively have more alchohol pleasure receptors, so they have urge to drink it, which is ok, but caving in to urge is not ok, and bible states that fact also, excessive drinking is also a sin. Same could be argued for cigarettes (although they are not mentioned in Bible), or any type of biologically conditioned behaviour.

So what do you think?

The only problem is, being gay is not like drinking alcohol. It's not fair that straight people can have a happily fulfilling life but gay people are not supposed to. Sexuality is a part of being human, imagine if they made "straight sex" a sin on the basis that we should all remain celebate since Jesus Christ is returning soon as Paul was preaching in The New Testament? (Because that is what the early Christians believed and we can see that this belief did not last and straight people returned back to their sexuality).

[Amalthe]

I am rubbing my eyes. You are trying to make some kind of theological argument by using LOGIC?

Since when has religion to do anything at all with logic?

It is kind of mind-boggling that you would even mix the two in one sentence.

Well, i guess either your logical thinking has limitations, or your idea of religion has seen its limitations.

I'm positive that faith in God not only is logical, it must be logical in order to be healthy and strong.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Amalthe

[Amalthe]

The only problem is, being gay is not like drinking alcohol. It's not fair that straight people can have a happily fulfilling life but gay people are not supposed to. Sexuality is a part of being human, imagine if they made "straight sex" a sin on the basis that we should all remain celebate since Jesus Christ is returning soon as Paul was preaching in The New Testament? (Because that is what the early Christians believed and we can see that this belief did not last and straight people returned back to their sexuality).

On what basis do you think that having attraction to same sex is not like having attraction to alcohol? In both cases it involves biochemical response in brain, doesn't it? I understand it might seem offensive to gay people, but i really wanted to define it through biology and to really be pragmatic. By your reasoning it is also not fair that sober people can have happy and fulfillling life, while we, alcoholic people are not supposed to

Sexuality is part of being human, but didn't Jesus said that most perfect way for humans to liveis to live in celibacy? I don't recall which verse exactly it was.

Point is, if I am a gay, and I believe in Christ, and i believe in Bible where homosexual act is declared sinfull, wouldn't I feel morally obliged to abstain from any sexual activity?

Edited June 11, 2013 by Amalthe

[Zaphod222]

I'm positive that faith in God not only is logical, it must be logical in order to be healthy and strong.

Oh really now. Please explain in what way irrational faith in a fictional entity is "logical"?

I am all ears. So many religionists have tried and failed. Maybe you want to be the first one?

[hellig heilige]

[Amalthe]

Oh really now. Please explain in what way irrational faith in a fictional entity is "logical"?

I am all ears. So many religionists have tried and failed. Maybe you want to be the first one?

Maybe i did not made myself clear. The choice to believe in God is free, in a sense that i don't believe it is possible to definitely prove or disprove existence of God.

However, if we accept axiom that mercifull and just God indeed exists, history of mankind, and current state of world, can be logically derived without entering contradiction.

[Zaphod222]

However, if we accept axiom that mercifull and just God indeed exists, history of mankind, and current state of world, can be logically derived without entering contradiction.

That is not an "axiom", that is a phantastic claim.

What is "rational" about believing in a phantastic claim?