US considering syrian 'no fly zone'

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I am no Russo phobe - whatever Tut boy thinks

Yes, and the Moon is made of cheese.......

[Space Commander Travis]

Have you actually paid attention to the man lately? Even when Oby tried making a small joke to lighten the mood a bit yesterday he rebuffed him in a way that was quite rude and uncalled for in that setting. I'm not saying rooty Poot is all that - I'm saying I'm beginning to think that he BELIEVES he IS all that. And that could cause a miscalculation. Whatever the USSR once was - Russia is NOT. I am no Russo phobe - whatever Tut boy thinks... but the only reason Russia has international standing these days is their nuclear weapons arsenal. They create nothing of value in the world...help in no consequential ways I'm aware of though I'd gladly listen if any can be tabled. The KGB man is a thug in a suit and he's punching way above his weight because America has a useless waste of carbon sitting in the Oval office these days. The one thing Oby DOES have though, is an ego and if Pootin pushes him publicly too far it just might cause a mess.

Hmmm, I think is the best thing to say to all of that. So Russia creates nothing of value in the world (What kind of things did you have in mind that you would regard as of value, and waht, by comparison, does the U.S. create that you do regard as being of value?) , Putin is little better than Assad, and Obama is a useless waste of carbon. Heavens. Like i said, I think Putin's got infinitely more experience and savvy than any occupant of the White House since Bush Sr (the last one to have any comparable experience, as a senior CIA officer). I presume it must be the fact that he doesn't bow the knee to Uncle Sam that's provoked this rather nostalgic Cold War outburst.

[+and-then]

Hmmm, I think is the best thing to say to all of that. So Russia creates nothing of value in the world (What kind of things did you have in mind that you would regard as of value, and waht, by comparison, does the U.S. create that you do regard as being of value?) , Putin is little better than Assad, and Obama is a useless waste of carbon. Heavens. Like i said, I think Putin's got infinitely more experience and savvy than any occupant of the White House since Bush Sr (the last one to have any comparable experience, as a senior CIA officer). I presume it must be the fact that he doesn't bow the knee to Uncle Sam that's provoked this rather nostalgic Cold War outburst.

Nope... it is a reasonable view based on his actions of late. The CW is long over and Russia will never be what the old Soviet system was (thank God). By any measure of reasonable people it was a system that destroyed rather than built but that is a useless discussion with someone who admired or admires it. It collapsed under it's own weight and was replaced by the Russian people with something at least marginally better. Putin wants to turn the clock back and he will do IF he can convince or coerce enough of the youth of the country during times of crisis. As for experience, yes he has plenty of that. Is that a recommendation of his morality or his desire to be a good leader? His experience is in suppressing the freedoms of his people with covert actions in government. Time will prove that point I think. And miscalculations have happened many times past due to "experienced" people with huge egos.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Nope... it is a reasonable view based on his actions of late. The CW is long over and Russia will never be what the old Soviet system was (thank God). By any measure of reasonable people it was a system that destroyed rather than built but that is a useless discussion with someone who admired or admires it. It collapsed under it's own weight and was replaced by the Russian people with something at least marginally better. Putin wants to turn the clock back and he will do IF he can convince or coerce enough of the youth of the country during times of crisis. As for experience, yes he has plenty of that. Is that a recommendation of his morality or his desire to be a good leader? His experience is in suppressing the freedoms of his people with covert actions in government. Time will prove that point I think. And miscalculations have happened many times past due to "experienced" people with huge egos.

[+and-then]

Wow.... I've found a new друг

[Clarakore]

Have you actually paid attention to the man lately? Even when Oby tried making a small joke to lighten the mood a bit yesterday he rebuffed him in a way that was quite rude and uncalled for in that setting. I'm not saying rooty Poot is all that - I'm saying I'm beginning to think that he BELIEVES he IS all that. And that could cause a miscalculation. Whatever the USSR once was - Russia is NOT. I am no Russo phobe - whatever Tut boy thinks... but the only reason Russia has international standing these days is their nuclear weapons arsenal. They create nothing of value in the world...help in no consequential sways I'm aware of though I'd gladly listen if any can be tabled. The KGB man is a thug in a suit and he's punching way above his weight because America has a useless waste of carbon sitting in the Oval office these days. The one thing Oby DOES have though, is an ego and if Pootin pushes him publicly too far it just might cause a mess.

In addition to the two leaders having proper names the view above lacks in understanding Russia is a BRIC member.

The acronym has come into widespread use as a symbol of the shift in global economic power away from the developed G7 economies towards the developing world. It is estimated that BRIC economies will overtake G7 economies by 2027.

*snip*

Goldman Sachs has argued that, since the four BRIC countries are developing rapidly, by 2050 their combined economies could eclipse the combined economies of the current richest countries of the world. These four countries, combined, currently account for more than a quarter of the world's land area and more than 40% of the world's population.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

The myth that America or the Western nations in general are the best in the world has been maintained even while the BRIC nations have quietly formed a middle class, have become out competitors for energy, and have increased lending to excellent levels while our country is busy borrowing and accruing debt and interest.

When it is time to pay back and austerity measures visit us remember the following.

The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

—Proverbs 22:7

In 2050 our great grandchildren will be watching Chinese shows with English subtitles, Russia will house luxury brands that we will want and can't produce on our own, Brazil will be a safe destination for vacations and India will be using us for cheap labor factory operations.

America's military might is a plastic tiger with a high APR.

Edited June 18, 2013 by The world needs you

[+and-then]

In addition to the two leaders having proper names the view above lacks in understanding Russia is a BRIC member.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIC

The myth that America or the Western nations in general are the best in the world has been maintained even while the BRIC nations have quietly formed a middle class, have become out competitors for energy, and have increased lending to excellent levels while our country is busy borrowing and accruing debt and interest.

When it is time to pay back and austerity measures visit us remember the following.

In 2050 our great grandchildren will be watching Chinese shows with English subtitles, Russia will house luxury brands that we will want and can't produce on our own, Brazil will be a safe destination for vacations and India will be using us for cheap labor factory operations.

America's military might is a plastic tiger with a high APR.

America will still be as much a pain in the patooti as Russia is NOW and for the same reason. Desperate and heavily...world ending.... armed are a bad combination - savvy?

[acidhead]

Have you actually paid attention to the man lately? Even when Oby tried making a small joke to lighten the mood a bit yesterday he rebuffed him in a way that was quite rude and uncalled for in that setting. I'm not saying rooty Poot is all that - I'm saying I'm beginning to think that he BELIEVES he IS all that. And that could cause a miscalculation. Whatever the USSR once was - Russia is NOT. I am no Russo phobe - whatever Tut boy thinks... but the only reason Russia has international standing these days is their nuclear weapons arsenal. They create nothing of value in the world...help in no consequential ways I'm aware of though I'd gladly listen if any can be tabled. The KGB man is a thug in a suit and he's punching way above his weight because America has a useless waste of carbon sitting in the Oval office these days. The one thing Oby DOES have though, is an ego and if Pootin pushes him publicly too far it just might cause a mess.

hmmmmmm.... Russia has a lot of petroleum... and industrial diamonds

Edited June 19, 2013 by acidhead

[+and-then]

hmmmmmm.... Russia has a lot of petroleum... and industrial diamonds

As with most blanket statements they can get a person in trouble. What I was thinking in terms of was medicine, patents of a sort that was of benefit to humanity, that sort of thing. I have no dislike of the Russian people - have a few as friends as a matter of fact. But imo Putin is a danger because of his ego and his ambitions.

[Space Commander Travis]

Nope... it is a reasonable view based on his actions of late. The CW is long over and Russia will never be what the old Soviet system was (thank God). By any measure of reasonable people it was a system that destroyed rather than built but that is a useless discussion with someone who admired or admires it. It collapsed under it's own weight and was replaced by the Russian people with something at least marginally better. Putin wants to turn the clock back and he will do IF he can convince or coerce enough of the youth of the country during times of crisis. As for experience, yes he has plenty of that. Is that a recommendation of his morality or his desire to be a good leader? His experience is in suppressing the freedoms of his people with covert actions in government. Time will prove that point I think. And miscalculations have happened many times past due to "experienced" people with huge egos.

So is this entirely hatred of Putin (who you've described elsewhere as evil),and not hatred of Russia as a whole? What did you mean by "Russia creates nothing of value"? Are you talking about exports or economically or culturally?

* This something marginally better; do you mean Yeltsin? The one who made G.W. Bush look like Roosevelt?

Edited June 19, 2013 by Colonel Rhuairidh

[Frank Merton]

Putin does seem to have an excessive ego. I wonder how that impression arose. Surely the Russians know how to handle public relations better.

[Space Commander Travis]

Putin does seem to have an excessive ego. I wonder how that impression arose. Surely the Russians know how to handle public relations better.

I think it's probably seen as a good thing, compared with the wishy-washy here-today-and-gone-tommorrow "Western" "democratic" leaders. And i'm pretty sure it's seen as immeasurably preferable to the hopelessness of the decade that Yeltsin was in charge.

[Frank Merton]

Well if so they err. The impression of strength is not conveyed through egoism but through determination and steadfastness.

Of course we need to remember that, as with all public figures, leaders manipulate their public image, and generally succeed fairly well, so we really have no basis for forming opinions about such people without knowing them personally. Even negative images are created, generally by enemies, and do not reflect reality.

[seeder]

heres what VeteransToday are reporting, but you have to decide for yourself on the validity of their statements

"We had reported earlier that when the Israelis used an American made mini-nuke bunker buster in the Damascus attack that they had crossed Russia 'quiet red line' of using a tactical nuke against an non attacking opponent".

This not only forced them to move Syrian air space defenses to block additional Israeli attacks, but also get fully deployed when the calls from the Israeli Lobby shills like John 'McQaeda' McCain and Lindsy Graham for a no fly zone which none of our military thinks is a smart idea, the wrong fight, in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

With the Russian navy back in the Mediterranean and the Israelis threatening to attack their air defense weapons in transit, this gave the Russians no choice but to deploy all of their top line weapons systems to protect their defensive deployment. Unsaid has been that any pre-emptive attack on the Russians would be dealt with in a full response so that the attacking party could then explain to it's citizen once again why Syria was worth the devastation.

and

The following report comes to us from intelligence sources that have been able to confirm some of the “legend” behind the story. If this is true, and we have confirmed that the S 300 missile defense system has been, for some weeks now, in the hands of the Syrian military despite denials by the “pop culture press,” Putin has made an interesting and very necessary move.

Now, reports indicate that the S 400 system is either inside Syria now or in the process of delivery. There are no confirmations. The S 400 system has a range of over 400 miles and is considered more than a decade ahead of the most advanced US counterpart.

and

Reports indicate that Saudi Arabia is moving vehicle mounted anti-tank systems into Syria, thus pushing Putin to trump Saudi’s move with a far more devastating system, the “Buratino,” capable of obliterating entire grid squares with thermobaric warheads.

and

The British intelligence site stated that Putin threatened to send other secret Russian made weapons to Syria which would tip the balance of power even further in favour of Syria and re-iterated that these weapons will not be used against Israel on condition that Israel will not participate in the war within Syria and neighbouring countries. {Lebanon, Jordan]

Reportedly, the British PM’s response was very weak in relation to Putin’s threats.

more

http://www.veteranst...to-syria-putin/

.

Edited June 19, 2013 by seeder

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Reports indicate that Saudi Arabia is moving vehicle mounted anti-tank systems into Syria, thus pushing Putin to trump Saudi’s move with a far more devastating system, the “Buratino,” capable of obliterating entire grid squares with thermobaric warheads.

Yes, all will fear and tremble before the mighty Buratino!

Though seriously I cannot see any TOS-1A being sent to Syria. There are not so many and there is a risk of losing them. Also this would mean direct action in Syria by Russian Army as this is not a system that can be simply shipped out to Syria for their army to use without extensive training, and time may not be on their side, unless they have already received training......

The system in action

http://youtu.be/B5nahSKwe9E

Edited June 19, 2013 by Tutankhaten-pasheri

[Frank Merton]

The Russians are typically far more cautious with their own involvement in things that the above posts imply. Therefore I do hope they are incorrect, as otherwise it suggests a serious change in Russian behavior and a serious liklihood of catastrophe.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

The Russians are typically far more cautious with their own involvement in things that the above posts imply. Therefore I do hope they are incorrect, as otherwise it suggests a serious change in Russian behavior and a serious liklihood of catastrophe.

There will not be any direct involvement other than what may happen in an evacuation. Buratino will not be sticking his nose into Syria

[+and-then]

Well if so they err. The impression of strength is not conveyed through egoism but through determination and steadfastness.

Of course we need to remember that, as with all public figures, leaders manipulate their public image, and generally succeed fairly well, so we really have no basis for forming opinions about such people without knowing them personally. Even negative images are created, generally by enemies, and do not reflect reality.

And THIS, I think, touches on my primary concern with Mr Putin. It is his willingness to show an arrogant, hard face to the world. If he is no more concerned of the impression he leaves than this, then what is his plan? Surely he doesn't expect to have his designs welcomed by the western leaders... so the alternative is to assume he feels he can impose them through force of will or arms. And when the force in question is nuclear weapons then I'd say "evil" isn't too outrageous a word. I realize that most people assume nukes will never be used because the leaders of the world have better sense and self control. At one time that was true. At one time it was also true that our banking and economic systems were held somewhat sacrosanct in fear that we might do exactly what the idiots in power HAVE recently done. Point is that today's leaders are not like those of 50 years ago. All it takes is one who feels he can beat the game.

[Space Commander Travis]

And THIS, I think, touches on my primary concern with Mr Putin. It is his willingness to show an arrogant, hard face to the world. If he is no more concerned of the impression he leaves than this, then what is his plan? Surely he doesn't expect to have his designs welcomed by the western leaders... so the alternative is to assume he feels he can impose them through force of will or arms.

... And the previous President of the USA never did that, of course.

Or if he did, it was seen as something to admire; a Strong leader who stuck to his guns (and moved them into more than one country to impose Freedom on them .)

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

And when the force in question is nuclear weapons then I'd say "evil" isn't too outrageous a word.

This is irresponsible talk. At no time has Soviet Union and now Russia ever threatened use of nukes. USA remains the only country to use these weapons against another. Also in first Iraq war they threatened to use them to destroy a major dam upstream of Baghdad, which would have killed countless people, mostly civilians of course. You like condemning Putin, yet I wonder which country is the real danger. The country that has actually used them and threatened to use them again, the country that likes invading others, or Russia, that has consistently argued for restraint and caution since this sinister US adventurism from 1990. It's this again, $$$$$$ as I will never fail to say.

[+and-then]

This is irresponsible talk. At no time has Soviet Union and now Russia ever threatened use of nukes. USA remains the only country to use these weapons against another. Also in first Iraq war they threatened to use them to destroy a major dam upstream of Baghdad, which would have killed countless people, mostly civilians of course. You like condemning Putin, yet I wonder which country is the real danger. The country that has actually used them and threatened to use them again, the country that likes invading others, or Russia, that has consistently argued for restraint and caution since this sinister US adventurism from 1990. It's this again, $$$$$$ as I will never fail to say.

Yes...of course you are correct. Russia never caused anyone any harm nor gave any country pause regarding their intentions

Save it for someone who cares and is stupid enough not to read even recent history.

[Space Commander Travis]

Yes...of course you are correct. Russia never caused anyone any harm nor gave any country pause regarding their intentions

Save it for someone who cares and is stupid enough not to read even recent history.

... Well, looking at history since 1917, how many countries has Russia or the USSR invaded? And how many has the US invaded or participated in military conflict in or against in that time? I really don't think the US is in much of a position to take the Moral high ground.

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Yes...of course you are correct. Russia never caused anyone any harm nor gave any country pause regarding their intentions

Save it for someone who cares and is stupid enough not to read even recent history.

And what country has Russia invaded?. I already explained Georgia on this thread or another in this part of the forum. How many civilian dead at the hands of USA since 9/11, let alone since Iraq in 1990/91? How many civilians killed by Russia in that time? As far as truth and morality go, you are decapitated.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Tutankhaten-pasheri

[Mr.United_Nations]

building Nukes and missiles in Cuba is a threat, like standing in your neighbors garden holding a kife

[Space Commander Travis]

... And stationing SSBNs in the Barents Sea , and land based Cruise missiles in Europe, was just shrewd self defense. But if the USSR tried to do something similar, then that was of course quite different, as Ivan was mad and deranged.