Should I cut this person off?

[pisceanheart]

There is this woman who I got close to and it seemed like every time we hung out or spoke, our energy levels were high. This encouraged us to create more and move closer toward our dreams. (We're both artists.)

Every now and then, we would have misunderstandings or make mistakes and they were usually resolved quickly. However, when it comes to a mistake that I made, she didn't forgive as easily or as quickly as I forgive her, even after the fact that my mistakes would probably not be seen as something as bad as she had done. In other words, what would be seen as a poke in the bigger picture by more observant eyes are more like a stab to her. Despite that, I apologized, sympathized, felt really bad and tried to hang onto this friendship for as long as I could; but I feel her insecurities are making her cling onto grudges that affect our relationship.

Here's why. For months, she would call me at all hours of the day everyday. After I would have a long days worth of work from 9am to 6pm, she would wake me up out of my sleep at either around 12, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 o'clock in the morning and I never complained to her about it. I even set my clock alarm to one o'clock in the morning to chat with her to keep her awake at work (night-shift) and eventually my sleep patterns would be affected by it to the point where I'm waking up early without the alarm, even after the fact that we rarely spoke anymore.

When I told her of my scary test result, I think she still held onto her grudge from our last squabble. She didn't contact me for days after I told her...and this was only because I sent a text message. She then told me she would call in the morning to lend an ear, but instead of calling, she just text me a cold comfort message around 6 in the morning. She implied that she couldn't talk because she was "tired." Keep in mind the various hours in the morning that I had woke up for her to listen to her rant about superficial drama and things that went on in her past. Finally, she ends up calling me two days later to see how I was doing, but it felt like I was talking to a demon.

All while she is doing this, she is also benefiting from things that I had given her. I gave her money to buy tires for her car. Over the weekend, she drove here for an event and didn't tell me about it, after I was just crying on the phone two days before. I let her borrow a drawing tablet (that I need to use) that she used to create illustrations for her book, that she was supposed to return during her next visit to my city, which she did not. Reminders of me in her life, yet it seems as if she acts like I'm not even there. This could possibly be because she feels that I'm a curse to her.

I honestly feel like our connection is dead, so I sent her a text message telling her so.

I think I will leave this companionship alone. Should I just let this relationship die out completely? Will it lead to a better result?

Edited June 21, 2013 by pisceanheart

[Ashotep]

I think I would just let the relationship die or at least let it sit on the back burner for a while.

Any friend that wakes you up at odd hours to talk knowing you are missing out on your sleep isn't much of a friend. She is only thinking about herself and not you.

[Ugly1]

I think I would come online and ask a bunch of complete strangers to psychoanalyze my relationships with friends and take the advice as if it was coming from someone credible that actually understands both sides of the story. Oh, wait......

[pisceanheart]

I think I would just let the relationship die or at least let it sit on the back burner for a while.

Any friend that wakes you up at odd hours to talk knowing you are missing out on your sleep isn't much of a friend. She is only thinking about herself and not you.

I welcomed it because when she would hint to feeling guilty about it, I would tell her it was fine. She also asked if she could call again at 4 when her shift ended, so that she could stay awake while she was driving and I told her that she could.

She would eventually get quite furious at me calling her during the day before her shift started though. And I mean FURIOUS.

Edited June 21, 2013 by pisceanheart

[pisceanheart]

I think I would come online and ask a bunch of complete strangers to psychoanalyze my relationships with friends and take the advice as if it was coming from someone credible that actually understands both sides of the story. Oh, wait......

I really don't have time for sarcasm, but thank you for noticing the thread.

[Q-C]

I can't judge you or her or your relationship over the Internet. So take what I have to say with a grain of salt or maybe the entire salt shaker... you know her far better than I could guess at it

But, some people are very draining, know what I mean. They drain your time, emotions, energy, finances, physical self, and eventually your well-being. She sounds very needy to me and this could be the case. There may be no changing how she operates in your relationship either, or not without extraordinary effort and time on your part.

Some people are "good" at handling others who have no boundaries and use them. But imo, they completely lose themselves to be in a relationship with an individual like that. It never seems healthy.

And sometimes we can bring it on ourselves. We may not realize we are assisting her in her neediness when we "help" her and are at her beck and call. Then when we realize she will abuse our efforts that another friend wouldn't, it is too late.

Anyway, you need to take care of you at this time. Just my opinion.

Edited June 21, 2013 by QuiteContrary

[Bendy Demon]

Talk to her. Tell her what you told us and simply explain to her how you see the situation.

It is possible she has had her own troubles yet either doesn't want to face them or has ignored them for so long that she may not realize it is affecting the relationship you two had.

Next time be honest and tell her how you felt and maybe lay down some new rules like not calling at all hours and let her know, gently of course, how her responses come off as sounding to you.

I mean it sounds like you two get along well enough I suppose and I wouldn't rush to end it so quickly. Maybe there is something under the surface?

Just my two bits...

[Ashotep]

I welcomed it because when she would hint to feeling guilty about it, I would tell her it was fine. She also asked if she could call again at 4 when her shift ended, so that she could stay awake while she was driving and I told her that she could.

She would eventually get quite furious at me calling her during the day before her shift started though. And I mean FURIOUS.

This is no reason to get overly mad at a friend unless she asked you not to and you kept doing it anyway. I wouldn't like someone calling me when its my sleep time but I wouldn't do it to them either. But like some of the other posters said there could be something going on you know nothing about to make her like that or she is a user. I think you should talk to her, if she will, if not I don't think I would keep trying. I would also set some boundaries if it was me like don't call me everyday. Familiarity breeds contempt.

[Simbi Laveau]

I think I would come online and ask a bunch of complete strangers to psychoanalyze my relationships with friends and take the advice as if it was coming from someone credible that actually understands both sides of the story. Oh, wait......

Asking strangers is the way to get a completely unbiased opinion.

Other people pay a complete stranger 150$ an hour for the same advice . It's called a psychiatrist .

Thing is,they dont give as good advice usually ,and put you on medication instead .

[pisceanheart]

What I'm afraid of the most about the cut off is that she will get back into her old lifestyle again.

When our relationship is active, she would steer away from drinking and smoking A LOT, almost to the point where you would think she was going to quit. (Although she claims that she would never quit.) For the little times that she would drink, she would drink responsibly by herself in her home or sometimes when we went out to eat. We had a very productive friendship and we liked each other so much that she didn't need alcohol or something to smoke in order for us to get along as long as we were together in person. In addition to that, I told her that I don't hang out with people who smoke. So in order to hang out with me, she made sure not to smoke around me. It was only when we were away from one another that she would get urges. (We live in two different cities.) Some of the phone calls that I would get early in the morning from her had to do with her urge to living her old lifestyle again...and her wanting me to talk her through it until she felt better and no longer desired it. It was almost as if she was in withdrawal and I was serving as a psychologist.

I was happy to be in her life. It was adventurous. Plus, I generally shut most people out, so I don't have any others that I was this close to.

When we stopped talking as much recently, she ended up getting a "drinking buddy" and with the past stories that she had told me, I feel she may repeat her old pattern again.

This situation has happened once before, where I cut her off and she went back to her old lifestyle full throttle. We first met early last year. She was indeed promiscuous and smoked and drunk quite a bit, but then claimed that she wanted to learn how to not do that. One of our outlets was art and we got into that together quite a bit. People that were giving her issues started steering away from her when we became friends and she saw it as a blessing. However, after month three of hanging out with her, I cut her off because we had a disagreement and I thought she had cruel intentions. During the period we weren't friends, she went back to her old lifestyle. Within the seven months that we weren't speaking, she found herself in literally three or so different relationships that included a lot of mistreatment (violence/cheating) and alcohol abuse. She even ended up getting a DUI for the first time and ended up staying in jail overnight.

So when we made up at the end of last year, she asked me a lot of, "Why did you leave?" "I've been through so much and you weren't there."'s, as if our parting traumatized her and affected her actions. I think she even wanted me to promise not to leave again.

I just feel I may have to again, although I don't want to. But whenever I get bad vibes in our relationship, it gets me down to the point where I can't move. That's why I'm strongly considering just ending it completely.

Edited June 21, 2013 by pisceanheart

[Mabon]

Hello Pisceanheart!

My two cents into the pile.

Your last post sums up what you give her and she gives you. She gives you adventure and you give her stability. Well..... thing is you're not her Momma or her babysitter. She is a grown woman as are you. If you want adventure go find it, you don't need someone to babysit to find it. All babysitting someone does is eventually 1. wear you out and make you worry about someone whom you can't control (they are going to do what they want if you're in their life or not) 2. It gives the other person control in the relationship because you're worried about them being mad, doing bad things fill in the blank. So it sounds like the relationship is focused more on her than on you.

You've most likely learned what you needed from the relationship and it's gone as far as it can go with someone who according to your posts, is not as concerned with you as she is with herself. It may have had its fun aspects, but so does any kind of drama and drama isn't the same thing as controlled excitement. Controlled excitement is going to an action movie or concert, the drama is over when the movie is over, with someone like this the drama never stops and she doesn't know boundaries and you need to learn to enforce them without feeling guilty. It was extremely rude of her to call you all hours so she could stay awake at her job when she should be working and not talking to people on the phone and keeping herself awake. She's the one getting paid not you!

Sounds to me like it's time to move on.. But that's my opinion.

Mabon.

[pisceanheart]

But will she be ok?

[Simbi Laveau]

But will she be ok?

If she isn't ok ,that's on HER ,not you . She's a grown woman who should take responsibility for herself.

My step brother died from an overdose . His dad said he wished he and I had hung out more ,maybe it would have straightened him out .

The reason I stopped hanging out with him,is because he tried to get ME to do drugs with him .

I loved him,but it wasn't my thing ,and if that's what he was going to do , no one but himself ,could help him figure it out.

I felt guilty for a long time after his death ,but I knew it wasn't my fault . I felt more like I failed his dad ,who suffered for years after his death .

[pisceanheart]

If she isn't ok ,that's on HER ,not you . She's a grown woman who should take responsibility for herself.

My step brother died from an overdose . His dad said he wished he and I had hung out more ,maybe it would have straightened him out .

The reason I stopped hanging out with him,is because he tried to get ME to do drugs with him .

I loved him,but it wasn't my thing ,and if that's what he was going to do , no one but himself ,could help him figure it out.

I felt guilty for a long time after his death ,but I knew it wasn't my fault . I felt more like I failed his dad ,who suffered for years after his death .

Sorry about your step brother.

I definitely get what you mean.

[dreamgoddess2011]

No relationship is perfect. There are highs and lows. Thats why the divorce rate is high. people give up and dont try. If there are more Lows than highs.. Time to evaluate the relationship. I think that's where you are at right now. life is too short to

" chase your tail" and get no where. But I agree with Ryu. Talk it out. Explain your concerns and feelings. Let her explain hers. Come up with a plan- compromise. Something that will make you feel better that takes effort on her part & something that makes her feel better that takes effort on your part. Example- seems like she is insecure/has trust issues with you. Set a boundary- you could call her at lunch time but not every hour. Be consistent and explain that your phone isn't a leash. Explain that her fears are taking over and pushing you away because your defenses are always on alert. She needs attention and I mean the spontaneous kind that's unexpected. Sweet little things that bring her back to when u two first met. If she sees you are trying to impress her and make her happy she will eventually ease up and relax. If she doesn't... Well call it quits at least u know u tried

[Mabon]

But will she be ok?

I agree with Simbi, it's on her, it's her life and her choices. Just like it's on you, it's your life and your choices.

You can't make her choices or live her life and if you're focusing on her life your aren't living your own. Really it sounds like any codependent relationship where one party is sucking up all the attention and making all the demands and the other is doing all the giving and all of the compromising. You are getting the feeling that you matter because she seems to stop doing self destructive behavior when you two are on good terms. What you don't realize is that she's traded one addiction or set of bad behaviors for another. She is an attention junkie and either gets the drama and attentions from drinking, or other risk taking behavior (when you aren't close) or by having you fill in the drama by calling and telling you all the trials and tribulations of her life (at all hours) and asking you to be her Jiminy Cricket when you're on good terms. Honestly, most people have had a relationship like this with someone during their lifetime and most people eventually realize that it goes nowhere and move on.

You can't talk it out with them, they never change to make nice with you.. it's not the terms of your friendship contract or why you got together. She got with you so she could have someone to dump all her crap on and emotionally drain. It felt like you were getting something because of the excitement that she brought to your life. Like you could walk on the wild side without getting your feet dirty but you still pay a price and that is you are her 24 hour hot line. Well that's a steep price. When does she listen to your problems. I'm sure that she listens to your upbeat energy ideas but if you have a serious problem she quickly changes the conversation. And if you think about it, that had been going on almost from the beginning of the friendship.

She has you emotionally so concerned about her that even though you two haven't been close for a while you're still concerned that you've done something wrong and need to make it right. Stop and think about this for a minute. What did you do that was so wrong except tell her that you were lacking sleep and that she shouldn't call you in the middle of the night? That's a normal boundary. Normal people understand that and don't get mad about it.

It's your life and your time spend it how you want to. If you want to work on the relationship do so, but I feel that you're going to have the same kind of friendship with her as the one you have now. You'll always give and she'll always be willing to take over your life because it's really never been about your (combined friendship) but her and her needs being filled. You don't need to talk it out with her and explain, you've done that already. All you need to do is enforce your boundaries. If you do that she won't get the kick of running your life and move on to someone she can. Enforcing your boundaries isn't harsh or being mean, so there is no reason to feel guilty. If you do that I predict she'll move on to easier pastures and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Mabon

[Clarakore]

Talk to her. Tell her what you told us and simply explain to her how you see the situation.

When I told her of my scary test result, I think she still held onto her grudge from our last squabble.

I welcomed it because when she would hint to feeling guilty about it, I would tell her it was fine. She also asked if she could call again at 4 when her shift ended, so that she could stay awake while she was driving and I told her that she could.

She would eventually get quite furious at me calling her during the day before her shift started though. And I mean FURIOUS.

We had a very productive friendship and we liked each other so much that she didn't need alcohol or something to smoke in order for us to get along as long as we were together in person. In addition to that, I told her that I don't hang out with people who smoke. So in order to hang out with me, she made sure not to smoke around me. It was only when we were away from one another that she would get urges. (We live in two different cities.) Some of the phone calls that I would get early in the morning from her had to do with her urge to living her old lifestyle again...and her wanting me to talk her through it until she felt better and no longer desired it. It was almost as if she was in withdrawal and I was serving as a psychologist.

I was happy to be in her life. It was adventurous. Plus, I generally shut most people out, so I don't have any others that I was this close to.

When we stopped talking as much recently, she ended up getting a "drinking buddy" and with the past stories that she had told me, I feel she may repeat her old pattern again.

This situation has happened once before, where I cut her off and she went back to her old lifestyle full throttle. We first met early last year. She was indeed promiscuous and smoked and drunk quite a bit, but then claimed that she wanted to learn how to not do that. One of our outlets was art and we got into that together quite a bit. People that were giving her issues started steering away from her when we became friends and she saw it as a blessing. However, after month three of hanging out with her, I cut her off because we had a disagreement and I thought she had cruel intentions. During the period we weren't friends, she went back to her old lifestyle. Within the seven months that we weren't speaking, she found herself in literally three or so different relationships that included a lot of mistreatment (violence/cheating) and alcohol abuse. She even ended up getting a DUI for the first time and ended up staying in jail overnight.

But will she be ok?

Ryu has given the best advice but have you taken it? Notice the things you have told us that you have told her (above in underlined bold). The one Ryu recommended was not included thus far...

When you mention, "I think she still held onto her grudge from our last squabble," that is projecting feelings and thoughts onto her without actually discussing with her and knowing what she is actually thinking. Communication issues are present.

Any and all advice given here could only be one-sided as well because we are only getting your view and not hers.

She has had three relationships, with ups and downs, and ended them in less than one year? You barely met her last year and don't have other relationships as close as that? Both of you seem unstable.

Sounds like more problems could be at work here than could ever be solved through any general advice.

Finally, you seem to want to be her savior, the helper. That is not really being a friend but wanting to be valued for something else. Then she will owe you something because of her gratitude? Sounds like a deal, a bargain, and not a friendship. Research interpersonal relationship issues.

If there is any advice that can help, the most valuable will be at discovering your own problems, not hers.

Interpersonal relationship

Personal boundaries

Edited June 22, 2013 by The world needs you

[Frank Merton]

I haven't read this thread so only comment on general policy. I would never "shut someone out," or avoid them. I would never fail to be welcoming.

That said, it is not necessary to be naive or dumb about other people. Mindfulness of when they are being manipulative or petty or gossipy or whatever is called for, but also compassion in overlooking or forgiving it.

When people are rude or hurtful or nasty, it takes great patience to bear it, and we are not all able to bear it, as is the case with bearing pain. In such cases the lesser of two evils may be to find a way to escape when this is possible.

[pisceanheart]

When you mention, "I think she still held onto her grudge from our last squabble," that is projecting feelings and thoughts onto her without actually discussing with her and knowing what she is actually thinking. Communication issues are present.

I tried to talk to her about our last squabble and she said she didn't want to revisit the past. Despite that, I still tried to stick around, but she was not the same person and showed hints of attitude here and there that was not present beforehand.

She has had three relationships, with ups and downs, and ended them in less than one year? You barely met her last year and don't have other relationships as close as that? Both of you seem unstable.

Not opening up to most people isn't unstable to me and that is the only reason why I didn't really take out the time to breed close relationships with people that I don't know. I like for things to happen naturally...like a magnet. If it is meant to happen, I would not have the desire to shut them out; shutting them out would not work.

Finally, you seem to want to be her savior, the helper. That is not really being a friend but wanting to be valued for something else. Then she will owe you something because of her gratitude? Sounds like a deal, a bargain, and not a friendship. Research interpersonal relationship issues.

No, I cared and I wanted to continue being her companion. I don't go out looking to find people to talk to about their problems when I have my own; think about it. It just happened. You and I both know that when you have relationships with people, even when you're not going into it demanding things, you would like for them to have your back as they had yours if they're able; because that's what companions should do.

[Ugly1]

Asking strangers is the way to get a completely unbiased opinion.

Other people pay a complete stranger 150$ an hour for the same advice . It's called a psychiatrist .

Thing is,they dont give as good advice usually ,and put you on medication instead .

Oh jeez! I didn't even think about that. Why pay a professional that has actually researched the subject we are discussing when you can ask people where 9/10 have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I mean seriously? With that logic, why even go to a doctor, or get a lawyer if in trouble with the law? You could just come to unexplained mysteries and get all the medical, and legal advice one could ever use. Next time I need to get to a destination that is many miles away, I will come here and ask complete strangers how to fly a plane.

Back to the original poster. I re-read your plot and it really just sounds like your "Friend" is taking advantage of you. I have had many "Friends" like this myself. Whenever they have problems they want to come to you, confide and ask for support. When you want the smallest thing from that same person such as even a shoulder to cry on, they act like you are some kind of inconvenience. If you want advice from a stranger, I will say that I have been burned many times by so called friends. Whenever I meet people like this, I try to cut my losses a.s.a.p. It sounds to me like you are giving, giving, giving while this other person is taking, taking, taking.

[spartan max2]

just remember that in a relationship your only in control of one side of the fence

Edited June 28, 2013 by spartan max2

[pisceanheart]

UPDATE:

SUNDAY: I ended up seeing her in person because we had to meet up with a mutual friend about an event that will take place toward the end of the year. She was supposedly happy to see me and wanted a hug. I was actually planning not to say anything to her at all, but then that changed because unlike her, I can forgive quickly. Then she wanted to go out to eat, so we went out to eat.

After she went home, we went back to chatting on the phone again, but again, she was still not her full self, despite her flipping cartwheels when we were together in person. In addition, she didn't call me unprompted as I would call her unprompted.

MONDAY: I started working at a new job this past Monday. What's funny about this job is that it's the late shift like her's. It's also the same distance away from my home as her job is from her home.

WEDNESDAY: When I drove home from work on Wednesday around midnight, I got so tired that I would have wrecked my car if I stayed on the road, so I pulled into a Wal-green's parking lot to go to sleep.

THURSDAY: When she heard of this, she called me around midnight when I was driving home unprompted, but this was shortly after I agreed to edit one of her graphics before she sent it off to a customer that wanted a print of it. I didn't get the call anyway since my phone was dead. When I told her that it was probably the real reason why she called, she claimed that she assumed I would feel that way, but never put an end to my suspicion. (She doesn't like to lie, so if something were a false assumption, she would point it out.) She said she would call again on midnight around Friday.

FRIDAY: So on Friday, she called, but she called after the fact that I was just about home, which I'm sure she knew I was. I was angry because she is doing these things on purpose. I was moreso angry about the OVERALL indirect attitude she was giving me for the past month. In the past, she would have never been so careless, but she is so petty that she does stuff like this on the sly because she really doesn't care. She wants you to suffer over her hurt. So I let her have it, knowing in my heart that our relationship was dying due to a grudge, but not mentioning it.

So guess what she brings up? Through the argument, it was revealed that she was holding a grudge over the exact incident that I had in mind and this was the reason why she was being crappy towards me. She was basically saying that I threw some of her love/respect for me away when I "threw away" her ring. And I did not "throw it away," I simply gave it back. (In that incident, I took off a ring that she gave me off and gave it back to her because she spoke as if I was some type of bad karma. Who would want to wear a ring given by a person who speaks of you like you're bad karma? Not me, so I took the very expensive ring off and gave it back. This hurt her and it was the action of my taking off a ring that made it the end of the world supposedly.) So because I took the ring off, she can care less about me possibly having cancer or checking up to see how I'm doing, or actually be serious about talking to me on the phone while I drive so that I don't fall asleep and die in a fiery car crash.

To think I actually felt bad about the ring incident before, I realized that I didn't do anything wrong by taking it off. It would have been wrong if I PAWNED IT or threw it in the trash. When I pointed this out, she replies, "I never said you did anything wrong." Oh, really? So why am I being treated like this?

This whole situation is so petty and childish, that it made me petty and childish. So today, I cut her off.

She claims that this makes her feel "free" now. But when you have the habit of holding onto grudges and putting value into material things, it does not make you free. It follows you wherever you go and it will affect the next relationship/friendship and the next and the next. The only people who are going to want to continue to put up with you (if you decide not to change) are people that are addicted to drama, like the people she dealt with in the past. So if she wants to go back, she can go back. I can care less anymore.

So I'm done and I want to thank everyone for the advice.

Edited June 28, 2013 by pisceanheart