The Spear of Destiny!

[kannin]

i know it is on display, i know hitler stole it, but is it really the spear that pierced jesus's skin while he was on the cross? would there be any way to prove it really did? like you wouldnt be able to test the blood, what i think would be really interesting is to take samples from the the shroud of tourin and test them with the spear if they match that would be incredible but whats the possibility of getting permission to do that!

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I believe this was tested a few years back and could not be dated older than about 8th century AD. I do not have a source for this at hand now, and for me it is 0330 in morning

[DeWitz]

AKA "The Spirit of Longinus" (the alleged name of the centurion who allegedly pierced Jesus' side at the crucifixion; never named in scripture; at best a tradition without attribution; at worst a legend with no discernible basis in history). It is displayed somewhere (in Europe?), supposedly was utilized by Hitler (that's how effective it is!), and is purported to have occult or supernatural powers (which is why Hitler allegedly coveted it). There is no way to confirm that its provenance reaches back to Golgotha. Even if DNA could be culled from the 'Shroud of Turin,' believed by so many--and this is only belief--to be the burial cloth of Jesus, it would only "prove" that the image appearing on the shroud was of a man who had been crucified (tens of thousands were crucified in Palestine in Jesus' day) whose blood matches blood recovered from a spear of that same era. Neither the Shroud alone, nor a 'combo platter' of the Shroud and Spear, can prove to whom such possible blood evidence belonged.

Jesus,however his being or essence are interpreted, is apprehended only through faith. History, archaeology and philology can only bring us a glimpse of this enigmatic individual, as if looking through a glass darkly. . .

[jaylemurph]

I think there are /several/ threads on this. I can recall at least three.

Kannin, you may do well to try the search function before opening a thread.

--Jaylemurph

[jaylemurph]

AKA "The Spirit of Longinus" (the alleged name of the centurion who allegedly pierced Jesus' side at the crucifixion; never named in scripture; at best a tradition without attribution; at worst a legend with no discernible basis in history). It is displayed somewhere (in Europe?), supposedly was utilized by Hitler (that's how effective it is!), and is purported to have occult or supernatural powers (which is why Hitler allegedly coveted it). There is no way to confirm that its provenance reaches back to Golgotha. Even if DNA could be culled from the 'Shroud of Turin,' believed by so many--and this is only belief--to be the burial cloth of Jesus, it would only "prove" that the image appearing on the shroud was of a man who had been crucified (tens of thousands were crucified in Palestine in Jesus' day) whose blood matches blood recovered from a spear of that same era. Neither the Shroud alone, nor a 'combo platter' of the Shroud and Spear, can prove to whom such possible blood evidence belonged.

Jesus,however his being or essence are interpreted, is apprehended only through faith. History, archaeology and philology can only bring us a glimpse of this enigmatic individual, as if looking through a glass darkly. . .

...there are three or four so-called Spears of Longinus running around Europe -- one in St Peter's basilica, one in Vienna, one in Armenia, one in Krackow. I don't think any of them have any bona fide provenance, though. Like everything else (including the numerous foreskins of Jesus out there), there was a /huge/ market for relics in the Middle Ages, so a /huge/ profit to be made by regularly faking them.

--Jaylemurph

Edit: spelling

Edited June 22, 2013 by jaylemurph

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

IIRC there are three spears that people claim to be the Spear of Christ. I think one is in Belgium, one the Vatican and one in Georgia.

If I was to put money on any of them being genuine, I'd say the one in Rome, but NOT the one on display in Rome.

[Abramelin]

...there are three or four so-called Spears of Longinus running around Europe -- one in St Peter's basilica, one in Vienna, one in Armenia, one in Krackow. I don't think any of them have any bona fide provenance, though. Like everything else (including the numerous foreskins of Jesus out there), there was a /huge/ market for relics in the Middle Ages, so a /huge/ profit to be made by regularly faking them.

--Jaylemurph

Edit: spelling

LOL, they were throwing darts.

Which Roman won the match?

[jaylemurph]

IIRC there are three spears that people claim to be the Spear of Christ. I think one is in Belgium, one the Vatican and one in Georgia.

If I was to put money on any of them being genuine, I'd say the one in Rome, but NOT the one on display in Rome.

I think the one in Rome is built into the baldicchino over the main altar at St Peters. And I'm not going to lie, I made this post just to casually drop in the word baldicchino. I've never actually used it before.

--Jaylemurph

[kannin]

I think there are /several/ threads on this. I can recall at least three.

Kannin, you may do well to try the search function before opening a thread.

--Jaylemurph

my bad im still new to foruming this being my first and all